HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » General Discussion (Forum) » So you can't badmouth Chi...

Sun Oct 28, 2012, 02:47 AM

 

So you can't badmouth China or they ban you and your work.

The enemy in the 2012 remake of Red Dawn was changed from China to North Korea, because otherwise the film wouldn't have been allowed in China. And this is not the only such example. The new Iron Man movie, it turns out, won't use a Chinese actor for the villain known as Mandarin, because it would get the movie banned in China.

In short: China's censorship tactics are dictating what we Americans get to see.

Why, exactly, do we trade with these guys again? Why do we let them run all over us?

156 replies, 30347 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 156 replies Author Time Post
Reply So you can't badmouth China or they ban you and your work. (Original post)
Zalatix Oct 2012 OP
Confusious Oct 2012 #1
JNelson6563 Oct 2012 #2
Zalatix Oct 2012 #3
JNelson6563 Oct 2012 #23
Tierra_y_Libertad Oct 2012 #4
Zalatix Oct 2012 #11
Tierra_y_Libertad Oct 2012 #12
Zalatix Oct 2012 #13
Posteritatis Oct 2012 #16
Tierra_y_Libertad Oct 2012 #25
Zalatix Oct 2012 #26
Tierra_y_Libertad Oct 2012 #40
Zalatix Oct 2012 #44
Tierra_y_Libertad Oct 2012 #55
Zalatix Oct 2012 #91
Tierra_y_Libertad Oct 2012 #93
Tierra_y_Libertad Oct 2012 #94
JackRiddler Nov 2012 #120
Zalatix Nov 2012 #123
JackRiddler Nov 2012 #127
geardaddy Nov 2012 #132
Zalatix Nov 2012 #137
Egalitarian Thug Oct 2012 #61
Tierra_y_Libertad Oct 2012 #95
Romulox Oct 2012 #105
Egalitarian Thug Nov 2012 #106
Brickbat Oct 2012 #5
reformist2 Oct 2012 #17
treestar Oct 2012 #6
Zalatix Oct 2012 #9
treestar Oct 2012 #18
Zalatix Oct 2012 #20
treestar Oct 2012 #54
Zalatix Oct 2012 #57
treestar Oct 2012 #85
Zalatix Oct 2012 #88
Confusious Oct 2012 #68
treestar Oct 2012 #86
Zalatix Oct 2012 #89
Confusious Oct 2012 #99
backscatter712 Oct 2012 #27
Zalatix Oct 2012 #35
treestar Oct 2012 #53
Zalatix Oct 2012 #56
Confusious Oct 2012 #66
Chan790 Oct 2012 #96
Marr Nov 2012 #126
Confusious Oct 2012 #65
Chan790 Oct 2012 #97
Zalatix Oct 2012 #98
Confusious Oct 2012 #100
Egalitarian Thug Oct 2012 #62
Zalatix Oct 2012 #92
RomneyLies Oct 2012 #7
tarheelsunc Oct 2012 #8
Zalatix Oct 2012 #10
muriel_volestrangler Oct 2012 #21
limpyhobbler Oct 2012 #22
muriel_volestrangler Oct 2012 #29
Zalatix Oct 2012 #32
muriel_volestrangler Oct 2012 #34
Zalatix Oct 2012 #36
muriel_volestrangler Oct 2012 #37
Zalatix Oct 2012 #41
muriel_volestrangler Oct 2012 #43
Zalatix Oct 2012 #45
dionysus Oct 2012 #51
Zalatix Oct 2012 #52
dionysus Oct 2012 #87
Zalatix Oct 2012 #90
dionysus Oct 2012 #102
Zalatix Oct 2012 #103
dionysus Oct 2012 #104
LanternWaste Nov 2012 #125
dogknob Oct 2012 #58
Zalatix Oct 2012 #59
dogknob Oct 2012 #60
Zalatix Oct 2012 #74
NCTraveler Oct 2012 #101
limpyhobbler Oct 2012 #42
Zalatix Oct 2012 #46
muriel_volestrangler Oct 2012 #47
limpyhobbler Oct 2012 #48
Zalatix Oct 2012 #50
muriel_volestrangler Oct 2012 #70
Zalatix Oct 2012 #73
muriel_volestrangler Oct 2012 #75
Zalatix Oct 2012 #76
muriel_volestrangler Oct 2012 #78
Zalatix Oct 2012 #81
Zalatix Oct 2012 #30
muriel_volestrangler Oct 2012 #31
Zalatix Oct 2012 #33
Egalitarian Thug Oct 2012 #63
Confusious Oct 2012 #69
argiel1234 Oct 2012 #14
Posteritatis Oct 2012 #15
Zalatix Oct 2012 #24
Egalitarian Thug Oct 2012 #64
Posteritatis Oct 2012 #72
Dash87 Oct 2012 #19
limpyhobbler Oct 2012 #28
Fumesucker Oct 2012 #38
johnt_1956_55 Oct 2012 #39
Iggo Oct 2012 #49
Spider Jerusalem Oct 2012 #67
Zalatix Oct 2012 #77
Spider Jerusalem Oct 2012 #79
Zalatix Oct 2012 #83
CBGLuthier Oct 2012 #71
Fla Dem Oct 2012 #80
Zalatix Oct 2012 #82
OldDem2012 Nov 2012 #116
Javaman Oct 2012 #84
JackRiddler Nov 2012 #107
Hekate Nov 2012 #108
JackRiddler Nov 2012 #119
Zalatix Nov 2012 #110
OldDem2012 Nov 2012 #115
JackRiddler Nov 2012 #118
Zalatix Nov 2012 #121
OldDem2012 Nov 2012 #129
Zalatix Nov 2012 #156
JackRiddler Nov 2012 #117
Zalatix Nov 2012 #122
JackRiddler Nov 2012 #128
Zalatix Nov 2012 #139
OldDem2012 Nov 2012 #131
Zalatix Nov 2012 #138
OldDem2012 Nov 2012 #142
Zalatix Nov 2012 #143
OldDem2012 Nov 2012 #145
Zalatix Nov 2012 #146
OldDem2012 Nov 2012 #149
Zalatix Nov 2012 #150
OldDem2012 Nov 2012 #152
Zalatix Nov 2012 #154
agentS Nov 2012 #109
davidpdx Nov 2012 #111
Zalatix Nov 2012 #112
davidpdx Nov 2012 #113
geardaddy Nov 2012 #133
davidpdx Nov 2012 #136
geardaddy Nov 2012 #141
OldDem2012 Nov 2012 #114
LanternWaste Nov 2012 #124
Octafish Nov 2012 #130
geardaddy Nov 2012 #134
markpkessinger Nov 2012 #135
Zalatix Nov 2012 #147
LittleBlue Nov 2012 #140
Zalatix Nov 2012 #144
OldDem2012 Nov 2012 #148
Zalatix Nov 2012 #151
OldDem2012 Nov 2012 #153
Zalatix Nov 2012 #155

Response to Zalatix (Original post)

Sun Oct 28, 2012, 03:16 AM

1. Cheap labor, money.

Maybe just money, because that's what cheap labor comes down to.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Zalatix (Original post)

Sun Oct 28, 2012, 05:16 AM

2. My guess

Seems to me the film makers want access to the market in China.

I'd put it down to greed. The greed of those who are making the films. If not for that they'd thumb their noses at China's requirements and move ahead as planned. China seems to be very aware of American greed and how to use it to get what they want.

If not for the greed they'd have absolutely no say in any of this. So I say forget China, it's greedy bastards in America who deserve our ire.

Julie

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to JNelson6563 (Reply #2)

Sun Oct 28, 2012, 02:09 PM

3. I vote directing my ire at all of the above. China, and the companies who coddle them. n/t

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Zalatix (Reply #3)

Sun Oct 28, 2012, 07:47 PM

23. Agreed, both are worthy.

Bastards, all.

Julie

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Zalatix (Original post)

Sun Oct 28, 2012, 02:11 PM

4. Or, maybe the Chinese have better taste in movies.

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Tierra_y_Libertad (Reply #4)

Sun Oct 28, 2012, 02:43 PM

11. Yay for censorship, eh?

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Zalatix (Reply #11)

Sun Oct 28, 2012, 03:43 PM

12. Big deal. The studios had to switch a couple of crappy movies bogie-men.

 

The adolescents who watch the schlock will be disappointed but brighten up with more beer.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Tierra_y_Libertad (Reply #12)

Sun Oct 28, 2012, 04:34 PM

13. So you like censorship? You like governments that restrict freedom of speech?

 

America must be a nightmare for you. We can badmouth our leaders and even our country here. Buncha fucking freedom loving adolescents, damn them!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Zalatix (Reply #13)

Sun Oct 28, 2012, 04:47 PM

16. Censorship's okay if you don't like the stuff being censored, you see.

That's the normal mode of thought for people who applaud or dismiss the significance of censorship.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Zalatix (Reply #13)

Sun Oct 28, 2012, 07:49 PM

25. Seeing as how you're so upset by what China does you should catch the flick somewhere else.

 

Do you feel the same about Germany banning movies glorifying the Nazis?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Tierra_y_Libertad (Reply #25)

Sun Oct 28, 2012, 07:51 PM

26. So I can put you down in favor of censorship?

 

Yea or nay? Simple question.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Zalatix (Reply #26)

Sun Oct 28, 2012, 08:28 PM

40. No. You can put me down as not giving a rip about the trials of Hollywood movie makers.

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Tierra_y_Libertad (Reply #40)

Sun Oct 28, 2012, 08:32 PM

44. Then you can put me down as not giving a rip about your arguments.

 

Since you are ignoring the central issue here, all that's going to happen is I'm going to keep pounding relentlessly on the evils of censorship while you keep avoiding it in favor of bashing Hollywood and going to bat for poor beleaguered undemocratic censorship-happy anti-choice China.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Zalatix (Reply #44)

Sun Oct 28, 2012, 11:10 PM

55. Do you feel the same regard for freedom of experession about child porn or graffitti on synagogues?

 

When Hollywood produces war porn you bet I'll go after them.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Tierra_y_Libertad (Reply #55)

Mon Oct 29, 2012, 11:36 AM

91. Comparing child porn to movies badmouthing China....?

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Zalatix (Reply #91)

Mon Oct 29, 2012, 01:03 PM

93. delete

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Zalatix (Reply #91)

Mon Oct 29, 2012, 01:05 PM

94. No, I comparing war porn and anti-semitic grafitti to child porn.

 

Are you saying that, despite your proclamations to the contrary, you embrace censorship.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Zalatix (Reply #91)

Thu Nov 1, 2012, 12:34 PM

120. Red Dawn is worse than child porn.

 

Child porn would be worse, except it is not used to brainwash fascism into young people at the multiplex.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to JackRiddler (Reply #120)

Thu Nov 1, 2012, 01:14 PM

123. "Red Dawn is worse than child porn"? You know, a jury should hide a comment as outrageous as that.

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Zalatix (Reply #123)

Thu Nov 1, 2012, 03:50 PM

127. Who's the censor now?

 

I explain that comment for those who can read. Thanks.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to JackRiddler (Reply #127)

Thu Nov 1, 2012, 04:25 PM

132. Haha!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to JackRiddler (Reply #127)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 12:58 AM

137. Who's the person who doesn't understand website "censorship" vs Government censorship?

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Tierra_y_Libertad (Reply #4)

Mon Oct 29, 2012, 01:39 AM

61. Upon what could you possibly base that supposition? Have you seen Chinese films?

 

They revel in 1000 year old plot lines delivered in exactly the same way that they were a millennium ago. There's a reason that the first thing talented Chinese film makers and actors do upon getting recognition is to get the hell out of China.

There is very little that America still does better than everybody else, making pictures is one of them. Put the film industry back into the hands of film people before it's too late.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Egalitarian Thug (Reply #61)

Mon Oct 29, 2012, 01:09 PM

95. I have seen a number of Chinese films that were great and some that were crappy.

 

I have no doubt that China has produced the equivalent of "Red Dawn" and it was probably just as crappy as the American version.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Egalitarian Thug (Reply #61)

Tue Oct 30, 2012, 12:06 PM

105. I've seen hundreds of Chinese films. You're way off base. Hong Kong has a vibrant cinema, and has

for years.

Most of the major HK actors have had way more enduring success in the East than the West--e.g. Jacky Chan, Jet Li, Andy Lau...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Romulox (Reply #105)

Thu Nov 1, 2012, 12:40 AM

106. What's the world-wide distribution rate and what are the gross receipts

 

for Chinese films? Where are the masses of people that don't even speak Chinese clamoring to see their product?

Of course there are a few great films that have come out of China and there are some extraordinarily talented people in their industry, but the comparison is still equivalent to your suburban community's best little league team and the pros.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Zalatix (Original post)

Sun Oct 28, 2012, 02:15 PM

5. If we didn't, our $7 t-shirts would cost $10! And a $400 handbag would cost $450!!!!!! NO ONE WOULD

PAY THAT!!!1!!!!11!!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Brickbat (Reply #5)

Sun Oct 28, 2012, 04:49 PM

17. Prices would only go up a little bit, but their profit margins would collapse.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Zalatix (Original post)

Sun Oct 28, 2012, 02:16 PM

6. There is no dictation here

the private parties who make the movies could still make it with evil Chinese characters if they wanted to - but they want to show it in China too. If they gave that up, they could show it in all other places. They just want to make the $$$. They are the "free traders" who want to do business in China.

Why do evil characters need to be Chinese? It's a question of filmmaking and avoiding racist stereotypes. Filmmakers have to be careful who the evil characters are nowadays. They're always going to be accused or racism unless they are imaginary or white.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to treestar (Reply #6)

Sun Oct 28, 2012, 02:42 PM

9. Evil characters can be of any nationality... except Chinese. Gotcha.

 

China is above criticism.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Zalatix (Reply #9)

Sun Oct 28, 2012, 06:08 PM

18. Why are you so invested in the idea of a movie

with evil China or evil Chinese characters?

Your response is inapt. I made the point that if someone wants to show a movie worldwide, one would tend not to make one denigrating 1/4 of the audience.

It's not even a matter of being above criticism. It's a matter of not being demonized because of your nationality.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to treestar (Reply #18)

Sun Oct 28, 2012, 07:21 PM

20. Why are you so opposed to the idea of a movie with evil China or evil Chinese characters?

 

Ain't nobody perfect. Your response is hypocritical. You would have no problems with films that make America look bad.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Zalatix (Reply #20)

Sun Oct 28, 2012, 10:51 PM

54. So do you think people are evil due to being born Chinese?

Are you condemning 1/4 of the planetary population as undeserving?

So it should be OK to demonize them in movies?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to treestar (Reply #54)

Mon Oct 29, 2012, 12:04 AM

57. Do you have money tied up in China or something?

 

You have no problems with people criticizing America. Anyone who criticizes China, though, is somehow guilty of declaring people evil for being born Chinese.

Criticizing China = Criticizing America. Both are morally acceptable. Do you get it yet?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Zalatix (Reply #57)

Mon Oct 29, 2012, 10:12 AM

85. You did not answer the question

Either question and created two new issues.

Do you get it? You started the thread with a plaint that a movie has decided not to make evil characters Chinese or China the evil nation, probably a smart move as they want Chinese people, world over and in China, to want to see the movie. Why is that so wrong?

No Americans were criticized except by YOU, as the party who said they should have left the movie as planned. YOU seem to want to see a movie with demonized Chinese people.

You are blaming Chinese people for the actions of outsourcers. Did you see Mitt's tape? These poor people work 7 days a week, long hours, with no protections and live in dorms near work. Did you hear Steve Jobs go on about how wonderful it was that they can be woken up to work on something right away? And yet you are demonizing these sufferers - they are the ones being exploited.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to treestar (Reply #85)

Mon Oct 29, 2012, 11:28 AM

88. I didn't answer it because I am not letting you distract the issue.

 

Criticizing China = criticizing America. Do you get that yet? I will keep repeating this if you try to get off-topic.

I am blaming the Chinese government for censorship. Because the Chinese government engages in censorship.

I'm summarily dismissing your claims of demonizing the Chinese because it has been obvious for months that you don't care what happens to them or American workers. You are deeply invested in maintaining the system of exploitation.

Criticizing China = criticizing America.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to treestar (Reply #54)

Mon Oct 29, 2012, 02:43 AM

68. Why do you think 1/4 of the planerary population

has no criminals? Is crime an exclusively white thing?

Why is showing someone who is, shall we say, not white, as a criminal or bad guy "demonizing them?"

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Confusious (Reply #68)

Mon Oct 29, 2012, 10:14 AM

86. Not necessarily, but movie makers are understandably careful of that

As for using the nation as the enemy, then how could they expect that movie to become popular there? No wonder they made that decision. With a global economy, it's no wonder we have movies like Star Wars where the evil characters can be non-human creatures.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to treestar (Reply #86)

Mon Oct 29, 2012, 11:29 AM

89. And if China chose to censor movies that speak well of America?

 

Then we'd have movies that bash America, just to cater to China.

And you would be quite happy with that.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to treestar (Reply #86)

Mon Oct 29, 2012, 02:25 PM

99. The United States is the bad guy in movies

The movie Syriana for example. That did well.

The bad guys, darth Vader and the emperor, were white guys.

How do you make a movie, a war movie, a cop movie, a hero movie, without someone being the criminal, the bad guy.

Unless you think we should just make alien cop movies, alien war movies, alien hero movies.

Dirty Harry gets a whole new look.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to treestar (Reply #18)

Sun Oct 28, 2012, 08:00 PM

27. Well, here you are again, cheerleading for authoritarianism again.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to backscatter712 (Reply #27)

Sun Oct 28, 2012, 08:14 PM

35. Criticizing any country besides America makes that poster quite unhappy.

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to backscatter712 (Reply #27)

Sun Oct 28, 2012, 10:50 PM

53. What?

How it is cheering for authoritarianism?

Not to demonize the Chinese individuals? that's cheering authoritarianism?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to treestar (Reply #53)

Sun Oct 28, 2012, 11:59 PM

56. Nobody's demonizing Chinese individuals. Now you're spouting deliberate falsehoods and distractions.

 

There is no rational reason for you to bring that up.

This is about Chinese government CENSORSHIP - something you can't bring yourself to speak out against.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Zalatix (Reply #56)

Mon Oct 29, 2012, 02:13 AM

66. No

Last edited Mon Oct 29, 2012, 02:43 AM - Edit history (1)

It just all bad people are US, white and male.


Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to treestar (Reply #53)

Mon Oct 29, 2012, 01:14 PM

96. Making the villain of the Red Dawn remake Chinese doesn't demonize Chinese people...

 

it demonizes the communist regime that governs China. Defending the ability of Chinese film censors to demand changes is to defend Chinese government censorship and authoritarianism.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to treestar (Reply #53)

Thu Nov 1, 2012, 01:44 PM

126. The subject under discussion is censorship by an authoritarian government.

 

I notice you keep trying to change the subject.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to treestar (Reply #18)

Mon Oct 29, 2012, 02:11 AM

65. So you shouldn't make any movie

With the bad guy being anything other the white US male.

Because if we did, we'd be denigrating someone's race and nationality.

Gotcha.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Confusious (Reply #65)

Mon Oct 29, 2012, 01:16 PM

97. I feel discriminated against.

 

sincerely,

A Caucasian US-born male

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Chan790 (Reply #97)

Mon Oct 29, 2012, 02:03 PM

98. But you're not a person. And neither are African Americans or Hispanics. (Sarcasm alert!)

 

We all get badmouthed in America. America gets badmouthed in America. See: Idiocracy.

But Treestar says we better not badmouth China or we're racist!!!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Chan790 (Reply #97)

Mon Oct 29, 2012, 02:32 PM

100. So you care nothing for actual equality

Just payback.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to treestar (Reply #6)

Mon Oct 29, 2012, 01:44 AM

62. As usual, you are so far off the mark you need directions to the right stadium.

 

And no, I don't expect that you will understand this either.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Egalitarian Thug (Reply #62)

Mon Oct 29, 2012, 11:37 AM

92. Ouch. That stings!!!

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Zalatix (Original post)

Sun Oct 28, 2012, 02:19 PM

7. Didn't American movie makers in the beginning of the 20th century

 

do things like this over the portrayal of African Americans so they could show movies in the South?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Zalatix (Original post)

Sun Oct 28, 2012, 02:26 PM

8. Well, would most Americans want to watch a movie that portrays the USA as the evil power?

They (the producers of the movie, not the Chinese government) only changed it so they could have access to the Chinese movie-going audience, which I can tell you is quite large. A lot more Chinese people will watch a movie portraying NK as a force of evil than one showing China as a force of evil. Though, this does cheapen the movie a lot because China's probably the only country that could even possibly have the resources required for such an invasion, and the notion that North Korea could do so is laughable.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to tarheelsunc (Reply #8)

Sun Oct 28, 2012, 02:43 PM

10. We don't outlaw such movies.

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Zalatix (Reply #10)

Sun Oct 28, 2012, 07:33 PM

21. Did the Chinese outlaw it? Or did the producers just change it, like this film:

No Crowe fan should be disappointed, but no O'Brian fan should be disappointed, either - though both novels are treated more as inspirations than outlines. The Surprise even has a different ocean nemesis, French instead of American.

http://events.seattlepi.com/reviews/show/16642-review-master-and-commander-the-far-side-of-the-world


Yeah, the Patrick O'Brian book "The Far Side of the World" has as the centre of the novel a fight between a British and an American ship in the war of 1812. But when they filmed it, the producers changed the hero's enemy to be French, because American audiences wouldn't have stood for being portrayed as the 'baddies'.

In short: America's censorship tactics are dictating what we British get to see.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to muriel_volestrangler (Reply #21)

Sun Oct 28, 2012, 07:44 PM

22. Any foreign movie shown in a theater in China must be pre-approved by the government.

All theater movies are illegal there until the censors approve them.

People can still watch the movie on bootleg DVD though. There is a pretty big black market.

That's what I heard don't be mad if I'm wrong.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_in_China#Film

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to limpyhobbler (Reply #22)

Sun Oct 28, 2012, 08:07 PM

29. But that doesn't mean the Chinese government insisted on the change in Red Dawn

It may have been a commercial decision, like the Far Side of the World one.

It is quite funny to see someone insisting on fidelity to the original Red Dawn film, though. The Patrick O'Brian books are widely admired. Red Dawn is widely laughed at, at least on DU (on right wing sites, of course, it's part of the nostalgia for the Reagan era).

On edit: oh, not even fidelity to the first film - fidelity to a first draft script. Even funnier. When it's an American up in arms about changing films to suck up to an audience.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to muriel_volestrangler (Reply #29)

Sun Oct 28, 2012, 08:11 PM

32. The change in Red Dawn was made because it would not make it past Chinese censors.

 

We don't have censors here, the First Amendment precludes that.

I'm sure you feel the poor helpless China is being picked on, but they're not. It's their censorship tactics that are being picked on.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Zalatix (Reply #32)

Sun Oct 28, 2012, 08:13 PM

34. Picked on? No, I just think your thread is funny

because Americans complaining about film scripts being changing is a hoot.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to muriel_volestrangler (Reply #34)

Sun Oct 28, 2012, 08:16 PM

36. You think anything America does is a hoot. What do you even like about this country?

 

The worst part is you still don't get it. Nobody's complaining about script-changing. The complaint is about CENSORSHIP.

There would be no thread if there was no censorship in China. Why is this not sinking in?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Zalatix (Reply #36)

Sun Oct 28, 2012, 08:25 PM

37. I like Democrats. I like American football.

I like laughing at people calling for the textual purity of 'Red Dawn'. I like someone who is normally concerned about the market power of China suddenly insisting that the Chinese must be portrayed as eevul communists in a crappy film.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to muriel_volestrangler (Reply #37)

Sun Oct 28, 2012, 08:31 PM

41. You also like censorship, too, since you keep avoiding the issue of censorship

 

which is at the heart of this discussion.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Zalatix (Reply #41)

Sun Oct 28, 2012, 08:32 PM

43. Dear God, you're serious, aren't you?



This actually matters to you.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to muriel_volestrangler (Reply #43)

Sun Oct 28, 2012, 08:34 PM

45. I am dead serious. Apparently you don't care about the issue of censorship.

 

Dictators around the world thank you.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Zalatix (Reply #36)

Sun Oct 28, 2012, 09:10 PM

51. you're close to coming upon using "what do you hate america!" ala glan beck as your new catch phrase

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to dionysus (Reply #51)

Sun Oct 28, 2012, 09:19 PM

52. And now you're associating love of my country with Glenn Beck?

 

What new fallacies will you sink to next?

And we're not even talking about that. We're talking about CENSORSHIP. Way to not get the point.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Zalatix (Reply #52)

Mon Oct 29, 2012, 10:53 AM

87. no i'm just laughing my ass off at the silly things you continue to post, and the wierd arguments

you get into...

"for the love of god, why do you hate america!!!!111!!11 argle bargle"

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to dionysus (Reply #87)

Mon Oct 29, 2012, 11:30 AM

90. And I am laughing my ass off at your silly, puerile arguments you use to defend censorship.

 

"Censorship? Who cares about censorship! That's silly talk!"

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Zalatix (Reply #90)

Mon Oct 29, 2012, 06:07 PM

102. not defending censorship, just chuckling at your hysterics.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to dionysus (Reply #102)

Mon Oct 29, 2012, 06:58 PM

103. You're defending censorship. Admit it, be honest with yourself.

 

Either that or you're just trolling.

And you can find someone else to troll because now you are on ignore.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Zalatix (Reply #103)

Tue Oct 30, 2012, 11:49 AM

104. putting me on ignore won't stop you making me ROFL with whack ass posts...

Last edited Tue Oct 30, 2012, 12:33 PM - Edit history (1)

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Zalatix (Reply #52)

Thu Nov 1, 2012, 01:33 PM

125. No more and no less than you are associating people's observation

 

"And now you're associating love of my country with Glenn Beck?"

No more and no less than you are associating people's observation of the film industry and reliance of worlwide profits as "loving censorship, gotcha"

In this case, it really is six of one, and half a dozen of the other.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Zalatix (Reply #32)

Mon Oct 29, 2012, 01:12 AM

58. No censorship in the US? Really?

I suppose you are right. We don't need it. The majority of people working in our mainstream media have been trained to self-censor. If they want their article to get into print, their song on the radio, or their film into theaters, they follow unwritten rules; they are "free" to do whatever they want, but that doesn't mean it will ever see the light of day. They are certainly "free" to go find a job with one of the two other corporations who own nearly everything we see, read and hear.

Kick a dog enough times and pretty soon just the sight of the shoe will get you your way.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to dogknob (Reply #58)

Mon Oct 29, 2012, 01:17 AM

59. Now there is no denying THAT problem.

 

We have corporate-driven censorship that completely circumvents the First Amendment.

Fortunately we have an underground media that is totally legal. Unlike in China, nobody's going to come arrest you for viewing stuff that the corporate media tries to bury.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Zalatix (Reply #59)

Mon Oct 29, 2012, 01:21 AM

60. For now. Don't take this little chat for granted. The GOP wants to stop it.

They will do it under the a "pirate hunter" flag. The Internet is the only reason they haven't managed to pull of the coup they are attempting already.

If Romney wins, the Internet in the US will be just like TV before his first term ends.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to dogknob (Reply #60)

Mon Oct 29, 2012, 08:27 AM

74. And that, sir or madam, is why we battle the GOP.

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Zalatix (Reply #59)

Mon Oct 29, 2012, 02:46 PM

101. This is an example of corporate censorship.

 

The movie could have cast anyone they wanted for the role. They allowed the almighty dollar to dictate the character.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to muriel_volestrangler (Reply #29)

Sun Oct 28, 2012, 08:31 PM

42. Right they don't have the legal power to dictate to US big US film companies,

but they do have the market power and the US film companies choose to make a movie that Chinese censors like, just to make more money.

China has an an unelected authoritarian government so it's kind of sad to see them having such influence over the Hollywood.

Whether it is a via legal power or via market power, the result is a degree of influence by the Chinese censors over American film and culture. It's not really a free choice on the part of the film companies; they are required make decisions to help maximize profits.

It's fine by me if US movie companies adjust movies to appeal to a foreign market. But in the case of China we are not doing it to appeal to a foreign market. We are appealing to the authoritarian government censors. When "we" do that, we are enabling and abetting the anti-democratic government.

And actually worse, we are helping them to censor the movies we see in America. This could make it a little more difficult for Hollywood to make movies about human rights abuses.

Yeah Red Dawn is like totally cheesy.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to limpyhobbler (Reply #42)

Sun Oct 28, 2012, 08:36 PM

46. Wow, you totally slam-dunked it.

 

It's not about Red Dawn. It's about catering to authoritarian governments. Muriel volestrangler simply refuses to understand that.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to limpyhobbler (Reply #42)

Sun Oct 28, 2012, 08:38 PM

47. If it were about movies concerning human rights abuses

then I could take it seriously - though I doubt any maker of such a film would be expecting a Chinese market for it in the first place (serious films tend not to travel well between cultures); the worry would be if there was a ban on associated films.

As you say, it's totally cheesy. The kind of 'culture' we're talking about are moulds.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to muriel_volestrangler (Reply #47)

Sun Oct 28, 2012, 08:57 PM

48. Many many Chinese people would love to see a movie about garment sweatshops and electronics factori

Maybe just a fiction movie, but with a segment that shows abuses in garment sweatshops and electronics factories. Or maybe even a documentary about these topics. Many Chinese people would love to see a movie like this.

But it would not be allowed in China. That means US companies will be less likely to fund such a movies. And that means the American people will be less likely to be able to see that movie.

It's hard for me to believe that the Chinese people would not be interested in movies about human rights if they movies were legal.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to muriel_volestrangler (Reply #47)

Sun Oct 28, 2012, 09:06 PM

50. So you're intentionally ignoring the big issue of catering to a dictatorship in favor of

 

harping on a silly movie?

The whole concept of catering to a dictatorship doesn't matter as long as it involves a movie you don't like?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Zalatix (Reply #50)

Mon Oct 29, 2012, 05:53 AM

70. Yes; this is like complaining that someone decided not to make "The Innocence of Muslims"

because they realised they would never be able to show it in the Muslim world. Not that someone stopped them making it, but that they wouldn't be able to sell it in part of the world, so they thought it wouldn't be worth making for the USA alone. No, I wouldn't get concerned over that.

Does it matter if it was the Chinese government saying "you can't show this in China", or the film distributors saying "you can't show this in the USA"? No. Not really. It's still someone with power stopping it. The people who could complain are the Chinese people (are they queuing up to be shown as modern day baddies who want to attack the USA? I doubt it), or the American people (who could have seen an interesting historical picture, in which they're at war with Britain. But they'd lose the battle at the end of the film). At least the Chinese government would be banning character defamation, where the Far Side of the World producers were banning that awful thing, a reminder that Americans lose once in a while in history.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to muriel_volestrangler (Reply #70)

Mon Oct 29, 2012, 08:25 AM

73. I'm no fan of censorship and fanatacism in the Muslim world, either. You keep forgetting

 

that the issue isn't the film. The issue is CENSORSHIP. Censorship is wrong. You can't be arsed to admit even that much. You're doing this long song and dance to defend censorship. Film distributors can't stop anything from being shown in the USA; you can legally obtain the videos regardless if you want them - this isn't true in China.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Zalatix (Reply #73)

Mon Oct 29, 2012, 08:40 AM

75. Censorship in China - hold the front page!

I'm so glad that you're that worried about the Chinese being unable to see a version of a trashy film in which the Chinese are the bad guys. Have you an instance of someone Chinese complaining about Red Dawn not having Chinese as the baddies? Have you actually bothered to complain about real instances of censorship in China causing something worthwhile, like a documentary, being censored there, or is it just the 'Chinese Red Dawn baddies' script that you feel passionately about? Are you, in fact, doing anything worthwhile about Chinese censorship, or are you just whining because you, personally, won't get to see a movie with Chinese baddies, because the producers thought your wish for Chinese baddies wasn't worth enough money?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to muriel_volestrangler (Reply #75)

Mon Oct 29, 2012, 08:50 AM

76. Wow, you must have some serious vested interest in coddling undemocratic dictatorships.

 

You're going through every contortion possible to justify censorship.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Zalatix (Reply #76)

Mon Oct 29, 2012, 08:56 AM

78. No, I'm still laughing at you

and your whining about how you won't get to watch a movie with Chinese baddies, because there aren't enough Americans willing to pay extra to make up for the loss of Chinese ticket sales. Of course, your preferred solution of cutting off trade with China would screw the film just as efficiently as Chinese censorship, so the producers wouldn't thank you either.

But do continue with your crusade about film scripts. It's funny.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to muriel_volestrangler (Reply #78)

Mon Oct 29, 2012, 09:18 AM

81. I'm laughing at you and your all-too-predictable justifications and contortions.

 

You're so hung up on the issue of film scripts that you can't even see the bigger issue of censorship.

I imagine that if Nazi Germany had decided to wage a trade war with America instead of attacking Europe, there would be supporters of trade with their regime, too.

That's the problem with trade fanatics - they'll do business with anyone.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to muriel_volestrangler (Reply #21)

Sun Oct 28, 2012, 08:09 PM

30. The United States didn't censor that movie.

 

The movie's antagonist got changed because of the fear that it wouldn't go over in the American market. The audience was the problem, not our laws.

In China the problem is that they have actual CENSORS who block films with Chinese villains or which make China look bad.

If there was no censorship and the Chinese audience at large simply rejected such movies, this thread would not exist.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Zalatix (Reply #30)

Sun Oct 28, 2012, 08:10 PM

31. Then you should have linked to something saying that

You still should.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to muriel_volestrangler (Reply #31)

Sun Oct 28, 2012, 08:12 PM

33. limpyhobbler provided a link to proof of censorship in China.

 

From that you should be able to figure out why China is not the antagonist in Red Dawn's remake: it would not make it past the Chinese censors.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to tarheelsunc (Reply #8)

Mon Oct 29, 2012, 01:49 AM

63. Gee, I don't know. How about a film called Three Days of the Condor?

 

Maybe something titled Platoon? All the President's Men? The Manchurian Candidate? Good Night and Good Luck? Enemy of the State?

And it took all of 2 minutes to think of those...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to tarheelsunc (Reply #8)

Mon Oct 29, 2012, 02:47 AM

69. movies with the US as bad

Syriana (2005) - The bad guys are ... the US government and big oil companies
Why We Fight (2005) - The bad guys are ... the military-industrial complex
Homecoming (2005) - The bad guys are ... the US government and US military leaders

Syriana did rather well.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Zalatix (Original post)

Sun Oct 28, 2012, 04:43 PM

14. and the funny this is

 

when the movies are released, they will be copied and pirated all over China anyway. A double fuck you to America from China

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Zalatix (Original post)

Sun Oct 28, 2012, 04:45 PM

15. Kinda sad how many of the responses here just don't get it, isn't it? (nt)

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Posteritatis (Reply #15)

Sun Oct 28, 2012, 07:49 PM

24. Yup, it's like China is the victim and not free speech.

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Posteritatis (Reply #15)

Mon Oct 29, 2012, 01:50 AM

64. Downright depressing. And these are the people on our side... n/t

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Egalitarian Thug (Reply #64)

Mon Oct 29, 2012, 07:48 AM

72. It's the near-unanimity of the censorship cheerleaders that's depressing me. (nt)

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Zalatix (Original post)

Sun Oct 28, 2012, 07:03 PM

19. Can we make an exception just once for banning the Red Dawn remake?

The Constitution must have some kind of clause regarding self-made catastrophes - something so bad that it should never reach the light of day.

Just kidding... Kind of.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Zalatix (Original post)

Sun Oct 28, 2012, 08:00 PM

28. For Red Dawn,

they should have just kept the enemy as the Soviets and made a movie set in the 1980s.

But at least with China as the bad guys it is a little believable.
N. Korea invading the US is a totally stupid movie premise.

For Mandarin in the Iron Man 3 movie, it makes sense to use a Chinese actor since the character is Chinese in the comic books.

It's bad enough they have censorship in China they shouldn't be able to have so much influence over movies we see in the the US.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Zalatix (Original post)

Sun Oct 28, 2012, 08:26 PM

38. "Giants lead Cowboys 29-24 late in game. CNN reports it is "tied""

I read that on the first page of GD and LOLed, I knew *exactly* what scheming daemons was talking about, our lying news media.

At least it's the government doing the censorship in China, our censorship has been privatized.




Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Zalatix (Original post)

Sun Oct 28, 2012, 08:28 PM

39. none of this surprises me anymore

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Zalatix (Original post)

Sun Oct 28, 2012, 09:01 PM

49. It's the movies.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Zalatix (Original post)

Mon Oct 29, 2012, 02:32 AM

67. "Dictating what Americans get to see"...um, no, they aren't

 

they're dictating what studios will make because of financial considerations--China is a huge market with more than a billion people. Make the Chinese the bad guys and not only will the Chinese government probably ban it, even if they didn't Chinese consumers would be much less likely to pay to see it. How well do you think a film in which Americans were portrayed as ignorant, overweight, bumbling, racist, chauvinist, violent xenophobes would go over in the US? Not very well probably. And if a foreign studio was counting on their exported films doing well in the US, they'd be amazingly stupid to portray Americans like that. See how that works?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Spider Jerusalem (Reply #67)

Mon Oct 29, 2012, 08:53 AM

77. You're confusing two issues.

 

One is Government censorship, and the other is what the local market prefers.

Government censorship is the issue here. If the US had censors that stopped the import of shows that made America look bad, say Japan's "Ghost in the Shell" anime, then I'd have a problem with that. If there was no censorship in China there would be no thread.

See how that works?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Zalatix (Reply #77)

Mon Oct 29, 2012, 08:57 AM

79. But is it government censorship or market forces?

 

Personally when it comes to fucked up things the Chinese government does I think that the slave-labour conditions in electronics factories which are largely owned by Party and People's Army higher-ups, the ethnic oppression of the Uighurs and Tibetans, and many other things are far more worrying than whether or not they censor American films that make China the villain.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Spider Jerusalem (Reply #79)

Mon Oct 29, 2012, 09:21 AM

83. In China it's censorship. Here, it's market forces.

 

As for the other, bigger issues concerning slave labor and ethnic oppression... what does it matter, wouldn't you trade with them regardless?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Zalatix (Original post)

Mon Oct 29, 2012, 07:03 AM

71. who gives a a shit about red dawn?

All versions of that shit are offensive to the nations depicted as the villains. I prefer the Mission Impossible (THE REALGODAMNONE) approach of fictional countries. Otherwise all these movies are nothing but propaganda. Think of how well 20 years of middle eastern terrorists in movies have served the US agenda.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Zalatix (Original post)

Mon Oct 29, 2012, 09:04 AM

80. In addition to all the above reasons, we are in debt to China.



At the end of September 2012, debt held by the public was approximately $11.311 trillion or about 72% of GDP. Intra-governmental holdings stood at $4.848 trillion, giving a combined total public debt of $16.159 trillion.

As of July 2012, $5.3 trillion or approximately 48% of the debt held by the public was owned by foreign investors, the largest of which were China and Japan at just over $1.1 trillion each.


As of May 2011 the largest single holder of U.S. government debt was China, with 26 percent of all foreign-held U.S. Treasury securities (8% of total U.S. public debt). China's holdings of government debt, as a percentage of all foreign-held government debt, have decreased a bit between 2010 and 2011, but are up significantly since 2000 (when China held just 6 percent of all foreign-held U.S. Treasury securities.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_public_debt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Fla Dem (Reply #80)

Mon Oct 29, 2012, 09:19 AM

82. And if China calls in that debt they're screwed.

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Zalatix (Reply #82)

Thu Nov 1, 2012, 07:27 AM

116. Don't look now, but if we collapse financially, the Chinese will too....

...we're all linked globally, a lesson we should have ALL learned when the US financial industry collapsed.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Zalatix (Original post)

Mon Oct 29, 2012, 09:45 AM

84. Money...

China is a relatively new market in the film industry.

Hollywood is struggling for eyeballs in theaters.

you piss off the Chinese, who have fiat control over what is seen and what is not seen, then you lose a huge part of your market share.

That's reality.

Whether you like it or not is another story.

But that is why red dawn's antagonist is the North Koreans and not the Chinese.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Zalatix (Original post)

Thu Nov 1, 2012, 01:21 AM

107. You're complaining about the lowest grade propaganda movies.

 

Damn! In the Commie Yellow Peril invasion wank-fantasy for wannabe warriors, Red Dawn, our heroic Heartland American resistance youth only get to shoot Koreans!

No Chinese!?

Are you telling me commercial fascist propaganda is self-censoring its own hysterical enemy image, just to allow easier entry to the Chinese market? Oh god! We've already surrendered!

Wolverines, to the hills! We must fight for our freedom to the last drop of our blood! We'll deal with the Hollywood traitors later!

And now you're telling me that the producers of Iron Man, who are using the Fu Manchu knockoff "the Mandarin" as a villain, are going to have to tweak the casting to put a fig leaf on this racist cliche, again as a voluntary commercial decision to get past Chinese censors?

Apocalypse!

Hollywood's never done such a thing before, ever ever ever!

Get back to me when Hollywood voluntarily decides to stop brainwashing youth with violent, fascist, racist, militarist crap, okay?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to JackRiddler (Reply #107)

Thu Nov 1, 2012, 02:04 AM

108. Best post in thread!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Hekate (Reply #108)

Thu Nov 1, 2012, 12:33 PM

119. Thank you.

 

I try.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to JackRiddler (Reply #107)

Thu Nov 1, 2012, 04:50 AM

110. So I'll mark you down as "yay for censorship".

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Zalatix (Reply #110)

Thu Nov 1, 2012, 07:24 AM

115. Do some research on US censorship history from the 1940s through the 1970s and....

...get back to us about whether or not you want to change YOUR vote.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to OldDem2012 (Reply #115)

Thu Nov 1, 2012, 12:31 PM

118. It's incredible!

 

I think it's some kind of elaborate joke post.

Or else, someone has found a way to fabricate typically right-wing hysterias. Of which we have a lot here, actually.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to OldDem2012 (Reply #115)

Thu Nov 1, 2012, 01:07 PM

121. Okay, I'll do some research on censorship which no longer exists now

 

if you do some research on censorship in China TODAY.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Zalatix (Reply #121)

Thu Nov 1, 2012, 04:17 PM

129. Oh, please. Skip the simplistic lecture. We all know censorship exists in a big way in China....

....but that has little or nothing to do with why the US entertainment industry is not using Chinese villains in their movies and TV. It has EVERYTHING to do with US businesses, the ones that own the US entertainment industry, not wanting to piss off Chinese leaders and jeopardize their business ventures in China.

If you believe censorship no longer exists in the US, I've got some land to sell you just off the East Coast.

Read my previous post a few times...hopefully what I told you will sink in eventually.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to OldDem2012 (Reply #129)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 10:18 PM

156. Hey, now we're getting somewhere. At least now you accept part of reality.

 

The part you can't seem to grasp quite yet is that China's censorship has EVERYTHING to do with the US entertainment industry not using Chinese villains.

Here's why.

If China did not threaten to ban the movies or TV shows from their country, there would be Chinese villains in movies. Just like there are American, Mexican, Russian, etc. villains.

You cannot deny that. It will eventually sink in because it is the truth. You have no counter argument.

Have a nice day!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Zalatix (Reply #110)

Thu Nov 1, 2012, 12:29 PM

117. And and I'll mark you down as "F" for Foxnews...

 

Of which the bilge logic above is worthy. No doubt they'll be very upset!

You're upset about Red Dawn... because they shoot Koreans instead of Chinese! What is wrong with you?

.

(In case of alert button: sarcastic, obviously.)

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to JackRiddler (Reply #117)

Thu Nov 1, 2012, 01:10 PM

122. Once again you are down for censorship.

 

What you refuse to address is that I am upset about censorship and I am upset about America coddling an undemocratic dictatorship. That's something you don't want to discuss. As such I think I'll leave you be.

I'm only going to talk to people who want to discuss the issue of America coddling dictatorships. Thanks!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Zalatix (Reply #122)

Thu Nov 1, 2012, 03:52 PM

128. Your fake issue is pretty crazy.

 

It would fit into the Foxnews hysteria rotation perfectly. I bet it will end up there.

Can't wait for the Colbert version!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to JackRiddler (Reply #128)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 12:59 AM

139. Your defense of China is pretty crazy. It would fit right into their propaganda machine.

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Zalatix (Reply #122)

Thu Nov 1, 2012, 04:22 PM

131. Plenty of folks on Freeperville will want to discuss your "China censorship" issue....

...they should welcome you with open arms because they love creating issues where none exist.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to OldDem2012 (Reply #131)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 12:59 AM

138. China should welcome you with open arms for defending their undemocratic policies.

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Zalatix (Reply #138)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 03:17 PM

142. Wow. I guess reading comprehension is not your thing! What's your personal motto?....

...."Don't confuse me with the facts, I'll believe whatever I want"?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to OldDem2012 (Reply #142)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 06:03 PM

143. You support Chinese censorship. That is reality on Terra Firma. Denial is your thing.

 

You support Chinese censorship. I will repeat that, because it is absolutely true. I comprehend you perfectly. I am going to stay on the issue of Chinese censorship. Period. You can try to veer off into nonsense about Freepers and other off-topic diversions, but I'm staying on the issue of Chinese censorship. It is a bad thing, and America should not be catering to it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Zalatix (Reply #143)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 06:34 PM

145. LOL!! Stop lying about my beliefs. I don't support censorship of any kind...

...all I did was point out to you in terms even a small child could understand who was actually responsible for the censorship of US movies and films. It's not the Chinese. Period.

I do see my mistake now...I assumed you might be a rational thinker. But, because of your demonstrated blind hatred of China you're simply incapable of listening to reason or understanding facts of any kind.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to OldDem2012 (Reply #145)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 06:48 PM

146. LOL! I'm not lying about your beliefs at all. You just keep avoiding and denying the facts. Period.

 

All you did was spout a bunch of fallacies and spin doctoring. China is 100% responsible for this bullshit. It is their government policy that says you can't sell a film in their country if you badmouth China. 100%. One hundred percent. American movie studios have to change their movie storylines to cater to this nonsense in order to get into the Chinese market.

That is what this is about. Period.

Your mistake is that you refuse to acknowledge that basic irrefutable fact. You try to dance around it, deny it, and avoid the issue. You are not in any position to call anyone irrational when you attempt to obfuscate this discussion and engage in evasive tactics.

You're the one who is irrational and incapable of listening to facts. I've laid down the facts. Show where I'm wrong. If you can't show that China doesn't censor movies that say bad things about China, then you have no case.

Have a nice day!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Zalatix (Reply #146)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 06:57 PM

149. Wow. Looks like I struck a nerve! I get the sense you've gone off your meds...seek help. nt.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to OldDem2012 (Reply #149)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 07:04 PM

150. LOL, backed into a corner, you flee to personal attacks. Who struck a nerve again?

 

All you did was spout a bunch of fallacies and spin doctoring. This you cannot deny.

China is 100% responsible for this bullshit. It is their government policy that says you can't sell a film in their country if you badmouth China. Yet another solid fact you refuse to outright deny.

American movie studios have to change their movie storylines to cater to this nonsense in order to get into the Chinese market. You couldn't, wouldn't even try to claim I'm wrong about this.

That's three uncontested, uncontestable facts that are totally crucial to this discussion.

And all you could come back with was a pathetic childish personal attack.

Have a nice day!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Zalatix (Reply #150)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 08:40 PM

152. NeoCon bullshit. You're CLEARLY on the wrong board. nt.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to OldDem2012 (Reply #152)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 10:11 PM

154. LOL! All I gotta do is criticize Chinese censorship to hit your rage button!

 

You've got all that anger and venom stored up not for a country that censorsharmless movies, but for someone who dares to protest said censorship.

You, sir, have rage issues. What is it about China that gets you so angry and irrational when someone criticizes their policies? You don't get this mad when someone criticizes America. What's up with that?

China engages in censorship. They are an undemocratic dictatorship. It's time for you to get angry again and keep on spouting your nonsense about "NeoCon bullshit".

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Zalatix (Original post)

Thu Nov 1, 2012, 02:43 AM

109. Ben Kingsley will be fine in the role, but....

There are quite a few people who are annoyed by him playing the Mandarin.
http://www.technologytell.com/entertainment/8087/essay-ben-kingsley-as-the-mandarin-shows-how-little-hollywood-has-changed/
Note- a picture of the Mandarin from the 60s comics books is also included in the article. It's hilarious.

Ben Kingsley is also part Indian and he played Gandhi, along with a few other serial killers.

I seem to recall Jet Li being a bad guy in a few movies, Lethal Weapon 4 springs to mind.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Zalatix (Original post)

Thu Nov 1, 2012, 05:04 AM

111. I've lived in China and experienced the censorship

There is no doubt in my mind it is wrong. The company that made the movie chose to cave and make changes. It probably happens more than we realize, in this case it was publicized.

In the 10 months I was there it was impossible to do anything without a VPN to get around their "firewall". I of course did my part by downloading audio clips from news sources from the west and distributing them to my students. Some of the stories were about issues in China that they probably did not know about. How many actually listed to them? I don't know. But my attitude was to try to get a few of them to realize what their government was doing.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to davidpdx (Reply #111)

Thu Nov 1, 2012, 05:30 AM

112. Damn, you're lucky you didn't get caught.

 

I can't imagine what the penalty is for smuggling in illegal news into China.

You, sir, have more courage than I.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Zalatix (Reply #112)

Thu Nov 1, 2012, 06:29 AM

113. They probably would have deported me

No loss there, my job was shit.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to davidpdx (Reply #111)

Thu Nov 1, 2012, 04:47 PM

133. I was in Beijing before the internet, but we managed to get

Time magazine.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to geardaddy (Reply #133)

Thu Nov 1, 2012, 08:59 PM

136. Yeah as long as it's not something that is over critical of China

You can get stuff. I could access CNN and MSNBC. There are times they crack down harder than others, so it's not exactly consistent. Not a huge surprise given we are talking about China.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to davidpdx (Reply #136)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 08:35 AM

141. Yep.

I was there when Deng Xiao-ping was in power. It was a little more eased then, but there was still quite a bit of censorship and people were still afraid to talk openly against the government.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Zalatix (Original post)

Thu Nov 1, 2012, 07:19 AM

114. LOL. Who do you think is REALLY dictating the banning of the use of Chinese villains?....

Clue: It's not the Chinese Government.

Give up?

Okay, try this on for size...the censorship is being driven by the major US corporations who are doing business with China and don't want to piss off their clients. Additionally, the US entertainment industry, owned by major US corporations, want to be able to show movies in the huge Chinese market.

There were other reasons US censorship was exercised in the past.

Maybe you missed the censorship exercised by the FBI and other agencies on US movie and TV scripts critical of certain US Government agencies from the 1940s through the 1970s. The US also heavily censored movie and TV scripts during all of our major wars to include WWII, the Korea War, the Vietnam War, Desert Storm, and the so-called War Against Terror.

How about the 1950s "Red-hunting" and the so-called "Communist scare", to include the Hollywood "blacklist", as well as Senator McCarthy and his hearings on alleged Un-American Activities?

The villains in past movies really depended on who we were fighting at the time. For instance:

WWII: Japanese and Germans
Korea: North Koreans and Chinese
Vietnam: North Vietnamese and Russians
The Afghan-Russian War: the Russians
Desert Storm: those scary Iraqis
War Against Drugs: any Spanish-speaking drug cartel
War Against Terror: Islamic terrorists

Just curious, but no matter who they used as a villain in the remake of Red Dawn, and given the total dominance of US technology today, is it even remotely possible that ANY country could somehow militarily invade the US?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Zalatix (Original post)

Thu Nov 1, 2012, 01:26 PM

124. I think it's that the producers believe the box office returns are more important

 

I think it's that the producers believe the box office returns are more important than writing one nationality rather than another, as the final decision to include or exclude a demographic would be made wholly by the producers rather than a foreign government.

And as the final decision lies with the producers, it would be much more valid to say "Hollywood's censorship tactics are dictating what we Americans get to see...." which has been the case since Edison's Kinetoscope hit the Chicago arcades.


As I've watched movies that did indeed have Chinese antagonists, I imagine the Chinese are not in fact, above criticism; merely that the producers enjoy profits as large as possible-- in other words, as large an audience as possible. I think many computer game companies that make simulations dealing with WWII do this also by excluding the Nazi flag so that German consumers may by the products also.


"Why, exactly, do we trade with these guys again?"
Money, profits, and combined economies of scale... I've never known economics to allow ethics or morality to take priority in the industrialized world-- unless it was motivated first by profit.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink



Response to Zalatix (Original post)

Thu Nov 1, 2012, 04:51 PM

134. You can't badmouth Japan, South Korea, or Taiwan either.

There's plenty of censorship in those "democracies" too.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Zalatix (Original post)

Thu Nov 1, 2012, 04:56 PM

135. Not exactly...

...What is dictating what we see is the greed of movie producers who are willing to sacrifice a bedrock principle of American freedom because they want access to the Chinese market. Look, China will do what China will do (and to a large extent, has always done). We see the effects more now because China has opened up (on a very conditioned basis) its markets to foreign producers. So, rather than focusing your ire on China, I would suggest you direct it towards the companies and producers that are so willing to throw a core principle of American freedom under the bus for profit.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to markpkessinger (Reply #135)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 06:49 PM

147. How about option #3: Focus my ire on all of the above?

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Zalatix (Original post)

Fri Nov 2, 2012, 01:01 AM

140. They're not dictating anything to you

 

The studios can make what they want. They want money. You have a choice to watch or not.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LittleBlue (Reply #140)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 06:04 PM

144. Yes, they do dictate to all of us.

 

If China doesn't approve, it doesn't get made.

Do you get it yet?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Zalatix (Reply #144)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 06:56 PM

148. Your nonsense is getting really old. It's straight out of the NeoCon/Cold War playbook....

...I bet you'd like to see another Committee on Un-American Activities, wouldn't you?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to OldDem2012 (Reply #148)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 07:13 PM

151. Your irrational rage at me criticizing China is getting to be hilarious!

 

Do you get a kickback every time you hurl childish "NeoCon/Cold War playbook" lines at someone who exercises their First Amendment right to criticize a foreign government?

China is an undemocratic dictatorship that engages in censorship. Please show which part of that statement is wrong.

America defends democracy and opposes censorship. (Read: the First Amendment) Please show which part of that statement is wrong.

Have a nice day!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Zalatix (Reply #151)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 08:46 PM

153. First, you lied about me believing that China has no internal censorship....

....and now you're lying about me being in a "rage"! Ha! I'm actually LOL at every single one of your posts.

Just curious, but how many people in this thread do you believe support your rather "interesting" point of view about China censoring the US entertainment industry? LOL!! Do you understand how demented that sounds?

Remember, we're laughing at you, not with you.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to OldDem2012 (Reply #153)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 10:15 PM

155. First, in your moment of RAGE!!! you failed to read what I said.

 

I said you have no problem with the fact that China is an undemocratic dictatorship that practices censorship.

Second, the fact that China censors stuff is not dependent on who believes or supports my point of view. It is not dependent upon consensus.

And who's "we"? You and those angry voices in your head that are getting more and more pissed off because I keep reminding you of the fact that China is an undemocratic dictatorship that practices censorship?

I'm just going to keep reminding you of the fact that China is an undemocratic dictatorship that practices censorship. And you're just going to keep flying off in a rage about it.

Have a nice day!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread