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Russian diplomat: "We have plans against NATO." (Original Post) highplainsdem Mar 2022 OP
Russia is struggling to handle... nycbos Mar 2022 #1
riiiight samnsara Mar 2022 #2
Well, of course they do. Be stupid not to. Xolodno Mar 2022 #3
My thoughts exactly sdfernando Mar 2022 #5
Seems like their plans are stupid though. lagomorph777 Mar 2022 #12
Right. Like Ukraine was. Oh wait, it wasn't. 58Sunliner Mar 2022 #7
Do you not see the horror Russia is unleashing on Ukraine?! BlueLucy Mar 2022 #9
I have relatives that are Ukranian. Xolodno Mar 2022 #14
How was Putin's invasion of Ukraine "avoidable by both sides"? PA Democrat Mar 2022 #19
I was not going to even dignify this with a response. Xolodno Mar 2022 #25
They make so many vailed threats..it's really ridiculous PortTack Mar 2022 #4
I suspect that their plan is to provide each Russian combat unit with white flags... nt abqtommy Mar 2022 #6
Ha! BlueIdaho Mar 2022 #8
They will surrender for a Coke and a pair of blue jeans. roamer65 Mar 2022 #13
Ray-Ban Aviators sprinkleeninow Mar 2022 #15
+1000 roamer65 Mar 2022 #16
You had a plan against Ukraine too Saboburns Mar 2022 #10
Eff around and we'll put an international coalition together and do you like Noriega pecosbob Mar 2022 #11
They may be this close 🤏. sprinkleeninow Mar 2022 #17
Mooomm! Daaadd! Russia's drunk again... Downtown Hound Mar 2022 #18
Mike Tyson: "Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth." n/t Shrek Mar 2022 #20
Hehe I like Tyson's quote better than Moltke's :' (Nt) FreepFryer Mar 2022 #22
Paper threats. "No plan survives contact with the enemy" - Moltke, "On Strategy" FreepFryer Mar 2022 #21
Well, they can't even handle Ukraine... so ananda Mar 2022 #23
Empty Threat ProfessorGAC Mar 2022 #24


(6,018 posts)
1. Russia is struggling to handle...
Sat Mar 19, 2022, 08:27 PM
Mar 2022

... if I could borrow some words from Lin-Manuel Miranda "a ragtag volunteer army."

Do they really want to test the full might of NATO?


(6,263 posts)
3. Well, of course they do. Be stupid not to.
Sat Mar 19, 2022, 08:38 PM
Mar 2022

We probably have plans to invade Canada and Mexico should things ever go in a bad way. Its called being prepared and its egregious not to have plans should something really goes down the toilet. It doesn't mean there is active preparation, you only do that when it appears there is an actual threat.


(4,310 posts)
7. Right. Like Ukraine was. Oh wait, it wasn't.
Sat Mar 19, 2022, 09:59 PM
Mar 2022

"you only do that when it appears there is an actual threat" Not if your name is Putin.


(1,609 posts)
9. Do you not see the horror Russia is unleashing on Ukraine?!
Sat Mar 19, 2022, 10:23 PM
Mar 2022

This is not some plan they have tucked away for a rainy day. They are actively executing that plan as we speak.


(6,263 posts)
14. I have relatives that are Ukranian.
Sat Mar 19, 2022, 11:22 PM
Mar 2022

My Uncle's father "joined" the Soviet military during WW2, his unit was forced to retreat to Russia during Operation Barbossa, but he was also part of the counter attack, Operation Uranus. His unit was part of a group that reached his old village, only it wasn't there any more. When he asked neighboring villages of the whereabouts of his family, neighbors, etc., they all said the same thing. Everyone was killed and buried in a mass grave. After he reached Berlin, his CO told him he could go home to which he responded he didn't have one anymore. Just so happens, he was educated and spoke English and one US soldier told him of a pacifist group of Russians in the USA, which he had heard of, but didn't know they resided there. He went back to his CO, gave him his gun and said he would never pick up one again and told him he was going to join the pacifist Russians in the US. His response, God be with you and I hope you find peace from this awful mess.

My wife is Persian, but her family was on the Russian side of the border, during the Revolution. Her great grandfather, was the leader of a village. I don't know if it was the White's, the Red's or Green's...it doesn't matter. They gathered the village and shot him in cold blood and told everyone to run or they were next. They had to cross a treacherous river, the current was so strong, a father lost an infant.

One member of our church was in the Korean War, he was doing guard duty after a recent but won battle. But one of the people he killed still had their eyes open and it was like they kept looking at each other. He eventually turned the corpse over. After the war, he was assigned to an embassy and during a social, two Russian Generals saw his last name and told him that its Russian. He replied that he knew and much of his family belonged to a peace church. They flat out told him he did not belong there and would ask his superiors for permission to take him to his people in Russia so he would know this was not what his life should be. They refused of course, but he did not renew his enlistment and never owned a gun again and was an advocate for pacifism.

A great uncle of mine went to Russia to find if we still had relatives left in the village we emigrated from prior to the Revolution. Once there, he asked. And was told the last of our name went to Afghanistan and never came back.

Neighbor of mine before he moved, told me a lot of what he saw in Iraq. And had to desensitize himself from it, I'll say no more about it.

And in this war, I'm following a few twitter feeds. Russian APC blows up a civilian car which was no threat. Occupants killed. A Russian soldier surrenders, obviously someone who wants no part of this, but angry Ukranian soldiers decide to make an example out of him, and fill him up with unaccountable amount of bullets. Mass grave in Maripoul, where dead civilians are tossed in and buried, some obviously very young. One of the people putting people into the grave "why did these stupid politicians decide to start this war, this was all avoidable by both sides". I agree.

My father was a conscientious objector during the Vietnam war. The previous Minister thar married us was in jail during WW2 for refusing the draft. The one before him, was in jail during WW1 for the same.

Someone I knew way back in High School said his uncle was in Vietnam, they raided a village, there was a pretty girl and held a gun to her head and demanded a blow job. During the course of it, she bit him and he fired his gun into her head. And the sick part, he thought it was funny because as he was wiping the blood off his penis it looked like he was jerking off.

Call me a coward, unpatriotic or whatever you like. I'm used to it, but never lecture to me the horror that is war.

PA Democrat

(13,225 posts)
19. How was Putin's invasion of Ukraine "avoidable by both sides"?
Sun Mar 20, 2022, 07:21 AM
Mar 2022

Putin's goal is the recreation of a Russian empire. Putin has told the Russian people that Ukraine is full of Nazis who are committing atrocities against Russians. He has propagandized the Russian people into believing that Russia is NOT intentionally targeting civilians, and is not even engaged in a "war." How do you negotiate with a madman? How were the Ukrainian people to avoid being attacked? Should they have simply allowed Putin take over their country without a struggle and sat back as he brutally "eliminated" his perceived enemies?

Was WWII also avoidable? Should we have allowed Hitler to murder even MORE Jews, to brutally take over all of Europe?

War should ALWAYS be the last choice. America has definitely entered into wars that were a huge mistake, and our side has been guilty of atrocities. War by its very nature requires its participants to dehumanize the enemy.

Sadly, history has shown us that there have always been psychopathic personalities who have attained political power and are willing to use unprovoked large-scale violence to amass even more power. They instill in their followers a psychology of grievance against the targeted "enemy" that is painted as less than human. Putin claims the Ukrainian government is comprised of Nazis and drug addicts, that they are manufacturing chemical weapons, and that they are targeting their own citizens, and therefore his "special military operation" is necessary.

Pacifism is an ideal that is admirable because war should ALWAYS be the last choice. War is a failure of diplomacy. But diplomacy requires honest brokers on both sides. I have yet to see even a scintilla of evidence of such honesty on the side of the Russians.

IMHO, unqualified pacifism in all cases guarantees totalitarian rule/ domination by the most evil and cruel people. Putin by all appearances will NEVER be satisfied with anything short of complete domination of Ukraine.


(6,263 posts)
25. I was not going to even dignify this with a response.
Sun Mar 20, 2022, 07:54 PM
Mar 2022

I have friends and family in a number of places around the world, sad consequence of descending from refugee's and the irony, both my wife and I are here because of US foreign policy that toppled governments they didn't agree with. And the reason our peace group is here, prior to WW1, the government assured the majority of our group there would never be a major war that required a draft and if there was, we would be exempted, we unfortunately bought that bridge over Canada and Argentina (in our case, our families didn't buy it but the overthrow of the Iranian government and quiet purge of the Mexican government, forced us here with the main group). I know that doesn't make sense, but its a really long story. When we applied for passports to take a trip to Cancun, had to basically prove my wife was not a terrorist.

If you think we are getting the honest truth from our own government, I've got a bridge I like to sell you. I voted for Biden, because the alternative was far worse. But sorry, he is not Jesus and has flaws as do we all. And this war was avoidable, but as you say, failure of diplomacy. But we are being pushed a lot of shit down our throat it wasn't. Got news for you, the "Yankee Imperialist Dog" moniker is still alive as US imperialism is still alive. You obviously know we're not angels, but a change in government in four years doesn't end long memories. I put forth over a century of memories and with many around this world, its even longer. I'm just glad I never had to dig mass graves like my ancestors did when the Tartars and Armenians went at it. And God willing, I will never have to, but when I see naïve people here on DU that advocate direct confrontation with another nuclear power, I know that I can not be 100% sure of that.

Say what you want, but when it comes to war, there is never any "good" guys. Only evil.


(32,235 posts)
4. They make so many vailed threats..it's really ridiculous
Sat Mar 19, 2022, 09:31 PM
Mar 2022

One I saw earlier today was russia was saying that Ukraine was planning on attacking officials from the west and NATO.


(2,807 posts)
10. You had a plan against Ukraine too
Sat Mar 19, 2022, 10:41 PM
Mar 2022

And you've been exposed as incompetent loud mouths and shamed in front of the entire globe. You're getting whipped by teachers and postal workers.


(7,077 posts)
21. Paper threats. "No plan survives contact with the enemy" - Moltke, "On Strategy"
Sun Mar 20, 2022, 07:34 AM
Mar 2022

“The material and moral consequences of every major battle are so far-reaching that they usually bring about a completely altered situation, a new basis for the adoption of new measures. One cannot be at all sure that any operational plan will survive the first encounter with the main body of the enemy. Only a layman could suppose that the development of a campaign represents the strict application of a prior concept that has been worked out in every detail and followed through to the very end.”

“Certainly the commander in chief will keep his great objective continuously in mind, undisturbed by the vicissitudes of events. But the path on which he hopes to reach it can never be firmly established in advance. Throughout the campaign he must make a series of decisions on the basis of situations that cannot be foreseen. The successive acts of war are thus not premeditated designs, but on the contrary are spontaneous acts guided by military measures. Everything depends on penetrating the uncertainty of veiled situations to evaluate the facts, to clarify the unknown, to make decisions rapidly, and then to carry them out with strength and constancy.”

Field Marshal Helmuth Karl Bernhard Graf von Moltke (1800-1891), “On Strategy”

Russia is doing none of the above.


(63,878 posts)
24. Empty Threat
Sun Mar 20, 2022, 08:20 AM
Mar 2022

Yes, they've got nukes. At least some will actually work.
So, every threat needs to be paid some attention.
But, this one is so vague as to be meaningless.

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