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Mon Mar 21, 2022, 04:02 PM

The nomenclature "Nazi"

There has been a lot of discussion regarding the term "Nazi." Denazification is a term that Putin has used to justify his invasion of an innocent nation minding its own business. I myself have used the term "Nazi" to describe some activities ongoing in the world.

But, I think that this term is being used to distract the world from what is really going on, that of Russia invading Ukraine. The Nazis are kind of a standard of evilness that the world easily understands and reacts to in a visceral sort of horrified way. But, it does deflect blame onto a bunch of people who did that awful thing, and most of whom have died.

Yes, we have bad actors today. The term is "neonazi." But, any prejudiced, exclusionary body of people who favor destruction of whole segments of the human family fit this term. The term nazi was associated in politics with a political party, was it not?

I wouldn't mind a new word to distinguish PUTIN from everyone else. "Putinization," "Putzi," anything to focus back on Putin and what he is doing right now.

I am extremely distressed over his apparent kidnapping of Ukrainian citizens. He isn't offering refuge to anyone. He is doing something else evil with them. It is unbelievably shocking to see the parallels between WW2 history and his activities today. He truly deserves to be labeled a monster. I feel bad for his children, having to live with this, but he deserves to be tried in the Hague, the same as the WW2 monsters who were hanged for their deeds. I'm okay with incarcerating him on a life sentence, as long as he exits the prison in a plain pine box.

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Arrow 21 replies Author Time Post
Reply The nomenclature "Nazi" (Original post)
EndlessWire Mar 2022 OP
Bernardo de La Paz Mar 2022 #1
EndlessWire Mar 2022 #6
Bernardo de La Paz Mar 2022 #8
Bernardo de La Paz Mar 2022 #2
Torchlight Mar 2022 #3
EndlessWire Mar 2022 #4
Torchlight Mar 2022 #17
PJMcK Mar 2022 #5
EndlessWire Mar 2022 #7
Igel Mar 2022 #18
abqtommy Mar 2022 #9
DFW Mar 2022 #10
EndlessWire Mar 2022 #12
AntiFascist Mar 2022 #11
EndlessWire Mar 2022 #13
AntiFascist Mar 2022 #14
EndlessWire Mar 2022 #15
JanMichael Mar 2022 #16
David__77 Mar 2022 #19
EndlessWire Mar 2022 #20
JanMichael Mar 2022 #21

Response to EndlessWire (Original post)

Mon Mar 21, 2022, 04:03 PM

1. The word you are looking for Putin is "PutZ" or "putZ". "putzi" is good and original. . . . nt

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Response to Bernardo de La Paz (Reply #1)

Mon Mar 21, 2022, 04:26 PM

6. Is this related to

the "Z" they have painted on their tanks and vehicles? Is this some kind of motivational factor? Or, does the Z simply refer to Zelensky? Should the Ukrainians paint "P" on their stuff, or is that simply too childish for words? The Ukrainians do seem highly motivated to win without such nonsense.

Although, I am not against painting, "Eff you, Putin" on all their munitions...

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Response to EndlessWire (Reply #6)

Mon Mar 21, 2022, 04:29 PM

8. Indeed. It looks just like something that would appeal to racist Russian neo-nazis


I looked it up because I thought it might also mean "Assassinate Zelensky", because that clearly was a failed objective in the first two days. Not from lack of trying.

But I found references that seemed to indicate it had bubble up from ordinary Russian culture. That made me think of AstroTurfing, which would be so easy for FSB to do in Russia.

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Response to EndlessWire (Original post)

Mon Mar 21, 2022, 04:08 PM

2. Nazi is derived from "National Socialist". So similar derivations


PutZi Putin ZpeZial Operation
RuZZki RUssian Zecret PoliZia

Probably too contrived to gain traction.

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Response to EndlessWire (Original post)

Mon Mar 21, 2022, 04:10 PM

3. I'm of the opinion that the events unfolding in eastern Europe

as well as thew world's reaction against to it, would happen with or without the word 'Nazi.' I believe that the same attention would be applied, the same immediacy of unity of western leadership would exist, and our attention would still be riveted to the daily updates from eastern Europe.

I just don't see the distraction, or evidence of the distraction you invoke.

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Response to Torchlight (Reply #3)

Mon Mar 21, 2022, 04:21 PM

4. I base it on

the fact this ludicrous reason for the invasion was put forth by Putin. There is a reason for the optics he has chosen. Europe suffered atrociously during that period because of Hitler and his Nazis. If you say the word Nazis, most people's memories, learned either in life or in school, immediately conjure up the evil perpetrated on innocent people. That is what is happening here, and Putin's declaration that he is "denazifying" Ukraine is distracting from his true intent.

All aggressors put up a reason for what they are doing, in order to get favorable opinions and justification for their actions from others.

I believe that he intends to exterminate all of Ukraine. And, this shadow of their being "Nazis" just plays to the world stage.

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Response to EndlessWire (Reply #4)

Mon Mar 21, 2022, 06:51 PM

17. I don't believe he wants to exterminate Ukraine at all.

I do believe he wants to return Ukraine to Moscow's influence and/or direct control over it, as every aggressive conflict he's involved Russia in since 2004 has been to that greater end: rather than their extermination, the return of all soviet-era territories to Moscow's rule.

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Response to EndlessWire (Original post)

Mon Mar 21, 2022, 04:22 PM

5. The use of ideological terms is so bogus!

We hear Republicans constantly accusing Democrats of being Socialists, Leftists and Communists. These aren't comparable ideologies so it's impossible to know what Republicans mean when they use these terms. Obviously, their use is intended to raise listeners' fears even though they don't know what the terms mean.

Likewise with Putin. He's claiming that Ukraine is ruled by Nazis! Tell that to President Zelensky. Russians know the Nazis were bad but they probably don't know what National Socialists are.

We live in a time where education has been severely diminished and people trust their "guts" more than facts. And words are factual since they have very specific definitions.

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Response to PJMcK (Reply #5)

Mon Mar 21, 2022, 04:29 PM

7. I agree. n/t

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Response to PJMcK (Reply #5)

Mon Mar 21, 2022, 09:46 PM

18. For each (R), it's pretty easy to figure out what they mean.

You look at a lot of examples and triangulate.

It's how toddlers learn language. Yes, sometimes they're wrong, but further examples often narrow the meaning appropriately.

You look at a range of people with different definitions and you get nowhere. A word is defined by a community of speakers agreeing on a definition or range of definitions for sound sequence. Very often a bunch of politicians and advocates are a bunch of outliers and their adherents are outliers. That means your community is a bunch of groups at the extreme. That ends poorly for finding a definition.

Here's an example. "Colonel Throckmorton told his batman what to do that day. First, the batman polished his shoes, then arranged for his dry cleaning. The enlisted driver said he wished *he* had a batman to order around. The batman scowled at him." Quick: You know who batman was. Does this make sense? No? Do you assume I misspoke or that you don't understand something? (Here's what's missing: "A batman or an orderly is a soldier or airman assigned to a commissioned officer as a personal servant." It's British, 19th century and later. But unless you let go of Bruce Wayne as "the" Batman, the actual meaning is blocked.)


The Soviets were clearly leftists, by their definitions and most Americans', including the CP USA; they were, more precisely put, socialists; and by "communist" they didn't mean somebody who lived in a country where the state withered away in a land of opportunity and equity but a person who strived to build socialism, the step necessary for communism to burst forth. Soviets also considered themselves democrats--not so much rule *by* the people but rule *for* the people, since an educated, unsculpted populace needed help to rise the level of realizing what their true interests were and what they *should* be doing. Communists were change agents to reconstruct a benighted society, having the knowledge of how society needed to be so that it could become what it would become. Horribly tendentious, that, and very much ideology/faith based. But the West was *not* "democratic," because rule by a bunch of people who didn't realize what they *should* be doing was hardly appropriate. It was, in fact, a giant error, and such people served bourgeois interests in their ignorance and were easily led astray. To "deepen socialism" (a Stalin phrase) meant controlling society and re-educating people to dispose of false consciousness and make their lives better, according to scientific theory. That often meant disposing of those horrible deplorable influences that spread wrong-thinking and bad information. Such needed to be banned and possibly liquidated. In a few generations, when all the baleful influences were removed, a generation would arise, pure and untainted, that would finally achieve equity and inner peace, and the state would wither away. Communism would be born. The only thing missing was "and they would rule in a Reich for a thousand years."

There, Stalin's definition of "democracy." Consistent, reasonable, and utterly execrable. Impossible to produce a reasonable translation of his speeches, which has confused the hell out of people for 70 years or more. Makes sense of the name of the "German Democratic Republic".

You want to know what "nazi" means to a Russian over the last 80 years, it's not a hard lift. But like understanding what Stalin meant, the first thing you have to do is say, "I don't have a clue what they use the word to mean. Let's collect information and try to understand it from *their* point of view." You won't like the answer, because it has little to do with the Holocaust and everything to do with Russian sense of grievance--it's *their* meaning. To understand it, *you* have to bridge the gap--they won't meet you even 1% of the way. And don't ask, "What do they think the word means?" because that brings the contrast with *your* "true meaning" into the picture. No. Your definition doesn't matter. Pretend you've found a large set of texts and there's a mysterious and unknown word "fwaznerck." Find examples of its use, form a hypothesis, check the hypothesis, refine your hypothesis, and keep on going. 300 *distinct* examples later, you'll probably be close. But in each case, you have to make sure that your working definitions completely satisfies every previous example. Then you go back and realize, "Oh, I misread the symbols. It's 'nazi'." But what you found the meaning to be is still what the meaning was.

It has little to do with the definition you bring to the table, just like "batman" was definitely not "Batman" and Stalin's "democracy" is not my (or your) democracy.

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Response to EndlessWire (Original post)

Mon Mar 21, 2022, 04:35 PM

9. The word "nazis" describes the German Fascists of WW2 and their supporters.

Fascists around the world are a big problem today since they appear in all skin colors but
their prevalence means we're now into another war to fight them.

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Response to EndlessWire (Original post)

Mon Mar 21, 2022, 04:43 PM

10. Europeans, including the Germans, love their abbreviations. "Nazi" was one of them

Since "Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei" is a mouthful even for a German, the National Socialist German Workers Party was shortened to the first two syllables of "National" in German, which is pronounced "Nah-tsee-oh-NAHL." It is that simple. The Nationalists, the National Socialists, whatever. Back then, just "Nah-Tsee" was enough for everyone to know what was meant. In Germany, although the French spelling of National is preserved when the word is fully written out, the German othrography (in German, "z" is the English "ts" ) prevailed with the abbreviation.

I wouldn't use "Putzi" since "puztig" is a term of endearment in German, sort of like "cute." Use "Putler" or some such. Or, as Trump probably used to call him:


I was discussing Putin's fading humanity with a friend who was a German news correspondent during the end of the Yeltsin years, and thus, Putin's ascendency. He said Putin was the scrappy poor kid who was long on street smarts and meanness. He has been "getting back" at the world for perceived wrongs ever since. He says that is how to look at what he has become, and we are right to fear him and wrong to ascribe any kind of reason or pity to him. He disdains compromise and pity. Compare him to Hitler? If he didn't despise Jews as much as any other ethnic group to which he doesn't belomg, he might just say, "Hitler, Schmitler, what do I care?"

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Response to DFW (Reply #10)

Mon Mar 21, 2022, 04:56 PM

12. I DO like Putus.

It reminds me of the Borg.

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Response to EndlessWire (Original post)

Mon Mar 21, 2022, 04:54 PM

11. Cable news was showing video of Ukrainian WW2 survivor in tears saying they are worse than Nazis nt

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Response to AntiFascist (Reply #11)

Mon Mar 21, 2022, 04:59 PM

13. I feel a rage

that I almost can't control. It is good I am not President. I so admire Joe for being able to handle this mess.

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Response to EndlessWire (Reply #13)

Mon Mar 21, 2022, 05:07 PM

14. Many of us are feeling the rage...

I've always felt that European nations need to be leading the decision-making since they will be the ones who are in the crossfire. I sure hope something definitive comes out of the NATO summit on Thursday.

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Response to AntiFascist (Reply #14)

Mon Mar 21, 2022, 05:25 PM

15. I think they will be discussing

defensive measures, how far they will go, and what to do when and if Russia uses chemical or biological warfare on Ukraine. I think they do need to discuss in advance the response to such events, as Russia does seem desperate right now.

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Response to EndlessWire (Original post)

Mon Mar 21, 2022, 06:44 PM

16. They sometimes use Swastika's on uniforms but nope not Nazis.

Even said that in 2014:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2015/03/10/ukraine-azov-brigade-nazis-abuses-separatists/24664937/

"The video was shot last week in Ukraine by a camera team from Norwegian broadcaster TV2. “We were filming a report about Ukraine’s AZOV battalion in the eastern city of Urzuf, when we came across these soldiers,” Oysten Bogen, a correspondent for the private television station, told NBC News. Minutes before the images were taped, Bogen said he had asked a spokesperson whether the battalion had fascist tendencies."

“The reply was: absolutely not, we are just Ukrainian nationalists,” Bogen said."

Cool cool cool.

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Response to JanMichael (Reply #16)


Response to JanMichael (Reply #16)

Mon Mar 21, 2022, 10:45 PM

20. I couldn't find this quote anywhere

Is there a parent article where this is stated?

This was from early 2015, so I am assuming that the war talked about was the Crimean annexation war. As this article stated, it was the opinion of this one guy.

Well, this is a poor excuse for bringing pain and sorrow to so many civilians--soldiers, as well. How could this possibly provide any excuse whatsoever to invade another country? It is ridiculous, and just an excuse. Eff Putus.

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Response to EndlessWire (Reply #20)

Mon Mar 21, 2022, 11:25 PM

21. I copied the wrong article. The quote was from the same period...

...where several Azov types had swastikas and SS emblems on their helmets.

You are not crazy. The quote wasn't there. No gaslighting.

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