The Security Council will meet

[EndlessWire]

Last edited Mon Apr 4, 2022, 06:30 PM - Edit history (1)

tomorrow at 10 a.m. ET to discuss the Bucha atrocity.

The UN Permanent Representative for the Russian Federation, Vasily Nebenzya, held a press conference today instead of the "emergency" meeting he was denied.

He was pretty furious over getting denied an immediate meeting at the UNSC over Bucha. He used words like "unbelievable, shameful, unprecedented, unthinkable, abusive, condescending, undermining, disgraceful, staining, demonstration of weakness, Western-backed provocation" to characterize the denial of his request.

Apparently, the UK is now presiding over the Council, and Barbara Woodward, the Permanent Representative who now holds that chair, decided that the Security Council wanted a "more informed meeting or briefing," and that this matter "was not really an emergency," and also that there was "no reason for the emergency meeting." LOL. Russia had a tantrum over it.

All the expected lies poured forth at this presser. Russia is using lies as truth. They feel that because they say so, it must be the truth. There is that old joke about, We know it's a lie because his lips are moving.

A reporter asked a question, and revealed that the US is pursuing suspension of Russia from the Human Rights Council of the UN. She asked what did he think about that, and he responded that the Human Rights Council wasn't their (cup of tea.) Oh, really...

Their proof consists of really superficial details that have no smoking gun quality to them. They want to use videos of jubilant soldiers and civilians to say that there was no evidence of atrocities in the immediate aftermath of Russia getting kicked out of Kiev. He claimed the bodies on the streets had no signs of decomposition, so they must be staged. etc. etc. etc. He promised even more evidence at tomorrow's UNSC meeting.

But, I think he shot himself in the foot. He went that "bridge too far." He ranted on about how Russian soldiers would ask if they could shoot someone, and they were told, "Of course." He said that the citizens were wearing stripes (I think he meant arm bands) which color coded them from civilian to soldier. If you were wearing a blue or yellow stripe, you were a soldier; if you were wearing white or nothing, you were a civilian. But, he messed up because he said that soldiers asked if they could shoot people without a blue stripe, and they were told, "Yes."

He also said, as a defense, that "this is war" and civilians get killed. Well, at least he admitted that it was a war, and not some special action--whatever Russia said it was.

Sorry, but this is chilling and sobering. This is AWFUL. Talk about Nazis...

Another reporter said that she had learned that Ukraine has announced that there is another city, Bora...something...that was FAR WORSE than Bucha, with people killed or executed, after the Russian withdrawal, and the PR of the Russian Federation said he did not know anything about that. I imagine we will eventually hear of it, perhaps tomorrow.

Another reporter asked if the Ukrainian civilians that had been interviewed were lying when they said they watched their loved ones being shot by Russian soldiers, were those statements also fake, and he didn't give much of an answer.

If you have watched Barbara Woodward, PR of the UK at the UN, speaking in the past, you will know that she is very forceful in her speeches. She isn't demonstrating "weakness" at all. And, now she is presiding for one month. Too bad, Vasily.

You should watch this presser, if you can.

Who shot these civilians? Who buried them in a mass grave? They didn't shoot themselves. These are crimes against humanity committed by Russian troops in the name of Russia.

And yeah, there have been other countries, in other times, my own included, where atrocities have been committed in the name of war. But, this is now, and we have a chance to speak up against it. We have a chance to challenge this dreadful circumstance, and change this PR war where everything gets whitewashed. It's not acceptable for this to happen, just because it's WAR.

You started this, Russia. It's on you.

[Hugin]

1. A firm KnR.

Maybe the ice is beginning to crack.

[Hugin]

2. And another... n/t

[LonePirate]

3. As long as Russia maintains a veto, these meetings are merely political theatre,

While I fully support airing all of Russia's war crimes, people need to be realistic about the Security Council can accomplish nowadays, which is not very much.

[EndlessWire]

5. I think the entire discussion group

here at DU is aware that the UN is failing to act. But, they can always take it to the GA where Russia's veto is ineffective.

We are standing at a crossroad in history. We have climate change about to off us, and we have a brutal war that could engulf all the world. We have to say no.

I think we have done an outstanding job with supplying Ukraine with weapons and applying sanctions. But, Russia doesn't plan to stop. Even today, Nebenzya mentioned that this Bucha thing is going to imperil the peace talks. What peace talks? Russia has no intention of doing anything sensible until they have all the territory that they set out to steal.

In the Xi-Putin Olympic Manifesto, they mentioned using the UN as a New World Order vehicle. Well, sorry boys, but that isn't going to be allowed. It is always possible that countries will unite against Russia, especially if their own populations are going to starve because Putin wants to get his rocks off.

So, this is important. IF the UN wanted to be effective, they could send in plenty of troops. Otherwise, we are being held hostage by a dictator in quest of power and prestige. And, all the permanent members of the SC are countries with nukes of their own. If Putin envisions laying waste to the rest of the world while Russia is unscathed, then he is truly nuts.

[Hugin]

7. Well put. n/t

[Lonestarblue]

8. Yes, the UN could establish a force for Ukraine just as it did with Kuwait.

Ukraine not being a member of NATO is an excuse not to start WWIII, which no one wants. No one wants to see nukes flying around either, but these atrocities need to stop now. Heaven only knows what has been done in Mariupol.

[former9thward]

14. The UN GA can't compel the UN to do anything.

Yes, they can pass a paper resolution but that is it.

[Evolve Dammit]

18. Agreed.

[TomCADem]

15. You Cannot Underestimate the Value of Truth

With a whole parallel right wing media ecosystem where people believe Trump win the election, killed Bin Ladin, that COVID is a hoax, and that climate change is not real, I think we forget the value and need to pushing back against the lies.

[Evolve Dammit]

17. Is there a mechanism to kick out a country?

[SheltieLover]

4. Kick their fking asses out! They are not the USSR.

[FakeNoose]

10. Exactly right

[SheltieLover]

12. Likely only there to get otherwise secret info & to veto.

[58Sunliner]

6. Thanks for the report.

[icymist]

9. K & R

[Tetrachloride]

11. The UN is designed as a way for diplomacy to have a chance... at least a place to blow off steam

Action is not its strong point at all and never was meant to be quick to send troops .

That said, this time may be different.

[mwooldri]

13. It would be nice for diplomacy to work.

Sadly Soviet Russia has a veto.

[TomCADem]

16. What is Russia going to veto?

It is not like the UN is going to even consider any military action and it is not like the US and allies need theUN’s approval for sanctions.

Indeed, if the UN does not consider the evidence of war crimes by veto holding members that would undermine the UN’s legitimacy.

[EndlessWire]

19. I wanted Putin declared a war criminal

by the Hague. Also, the ICC could step up. This would enable us to grab his sorry ass without any dissent. All the dissent would have occurred before. It would be a matter of international law to arrest an international criminal.

Sometimes, I think a pow wow to explain things to members who are resistant is beneficial. See what they did. Putin is threatening world peace. This is what we can do.

I dunno. We have the UN, we have NATO, we have the EU. None of them have stepped up except for the military gear Ukraine is receiving, and for the sanctions. But, I think the value of the UN is, under normal circumstances, to showcase countries, their position in the world, and to ask for help. An exchange of help. It really should be about feeding people, healthcare, etc. Instead, it is consumed with squabbles, war, posturing for position, and power, always power.

The thing that I am furious about is the fact that Sweden and Finland have been told that if they want into NATO, it can be done for them double quick. I have absolutely nothing against Sweden and Finland, so don't misinterpret that. But, I am angry that Ukraine, who so wanted in and had been trying to comply with the requirements, were told by both NATO and the EU that no, you can't be admitted. Absolutely, the whole thing is over the fact that Russia threatened nuclear war to get its way. That's what it was. Well, sanctions are good, and at least it pissed them off.

No one wants a nuclear WW3. If the US were in these straits, NO ONE would help us. Maybe UK. Canada. Not sure about Mexico. But, I doubt that anyone else would. They'd say, it's all your fault, and besides, you deserve it. So, I don't think Ukraine deserves what it is getting.

Because NATO is constrained, the UN remains the only body that can muster troops. Now, if they had the will, they could most CERTAINLY do it. They could kick Russia out of the UN for busting the charter, and send peacekeepers in there to clean out Ukraine and Crimea.

Russia is very, very lucky that these circumstances exist to save Putin's sorry ass from his own country having the shit bombed out of it. Quite frankly, a coalition of major powers could pulverize Russia.

And, nobody wanted to! Hell, nobody except Patton I think in WW2 ever wanted to take out Russia. We could have had a glorious friendship--if the likes of Putin were not in power.

We got rid of our troublemaker. We do not intend to ever let him return. Eff the GOP. Eff tRump for four years of hell. Thank G-d we have Biden and Harris in there. We were lucky. Our people rose up and VOTED the tyrant's sorry ass out of office. But, Russia can't do that, although I think it tried. I don't wanna be the world's policeman. But, sometimes you just gotta step up to help.

Yes, the UN is ineffectual. It ordered convoys; they couldn't get there. The Hague ordered Russia to leave; they won't. Now, they apparently plan to bomb beautiful Odesa into rubble, because that's what they do. On and on and on, it never stops.

I now admire the Ukrainian people. Never thought much about them before, but they have been a lesson. Good luck to us all. Hug your people and enjoy your days. Because, if Russia doesn't get us, the oceans will.

(Can someone please throw a pie into that envoy's face, for me? Oh, can't say that, especially in the wake of Will's faux pa...) Sorry, never mind...

[TomCADem]

22. If Hague/ICC Did Not Declare Him A War Criminal, Does That Mean...

...that mass graves and systemic rape of Ukranian women is okay?

This is why I think the focus should be on getting the facts out and fighting the lies, rather then thinking that the Hague or ICC are some sort of cure all or that if Putin cannot be prosecuted, so why bother?

It is this sort of thinking along the lines of the UN can't put Putin in jail, so why complain about the atrocities, that allows them to continue. There is a reason why people push propaganda and lies, and it is because the opinions of people matter. If you can control what is regarded as truth, then you can control people. This is why dictators and fascists cannot stand a free press.

[EndlessWire]

24. Yes, I agree.

I think I read that the first thing to go in an authoritarian state is the Free Press. Then, the intellectuals (translate: people that can think) get it in the neck.

I think that Putin is using the UN for damage control. I have often wondered what it is like for this envoy to have to make excuses for this miserable war, and whether his family anywhere is at risk, or whether he agrees with this crap. He seems to be running out of rational thought.

If Putin were indicted as an international war criminal, it would alter his status. Indict him in the Hague or ICC, and then offer a reward for him. Make it a big, honking reward that would mean something tremendous to someone.

They don't have to wait for a war that will drag on for months or years. They should do it now, while the most motivating of reasons is fresh in people's minds. And, I don't think that an international war criminal can be represented in the UNSC. So, the label is important.

I read in the Wiki that most of these UN resolutions are already decided upon behind closed doors, and that by the time it is televised, a resolution is cooked and done. So, I wish I could be there invisible and hear the conversation that people are having over Bucha. If there is a vote on anything, I expect China to posture about economics, and India to abstain.

But, something is cooking. That one day's delay is important, and I am going to assume that it was needed to line up duckies. I will be SOOO disappointed if all they do is tell Russia they were naughty.

[lpbk2713]

20. Expel Russia from the UNSC.

They are not conducting themselves like a responsible member of the world community.

[EndlessWire]

21. Russia feels the heat.

Their envoy stated that we were trying to "exclude them from multinational forums." But, he was probably talking about social media. I don't think they give a rat's ass about committees and such; they have nothing to contribute and that's not why they are there.

They should be suspended; someone's suspension lasted twenty years. Make them sit in the corner.

We can't be entirely sure that the UNSC is not planning something dramatic like that. The world is outraged at Bucha. They are probably tired of having to come to emergency meetings every other week because Russia is showing its ass. Just do it! Kick them out. Get the washroom key back. They are single handedly tearing down the UN. The UN was formed after WW2 in order to provide a way for nations to head off what is happening now. Just go ahead and suspend them. Then, watch, they'll threaten the UNSC with nukes. And, they will reveal themselves.

[Celerity]

23. Russia is using lies as truth.