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Tomconroy

(7,611 posts)
Wed Apr 6, 2022, 07:32 AM Apr 2022

Why Ba.2 Covid cases haven't surged in the U.S.

From this morning's NY Times newsletter The Morning:


4. Another mystery
Throughout the pandemic, Osterholm — the Minnesota epidemiologist — has lamented that many scientists, journalists and laypeople exaggerate how much we actually know about Covid. His favorite example: The Alpha variant swept through Michigan and Minnesota last year and then largely died out, without causing case increases in other parts of the U.S. Another example: BA.2 has recently become the dominant variant in India, South Africa and some other countries without causing a spike in cases.

When I called Osterholm yesterday to ask why cases had not surged over the past few weeks, he simply said: “I don’t know, and I don’t think anybody really knows.”

Of all the variants, only the original Omicron was so contagious that it spread around the world in predictable ways, he said. Other versions of the virus have surged and receded in mysterious ways, much as a forest fire can die out without burning down an entire forest.


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Why Ba.2 Covid cases haven't surged in the U.S. (Original Post) Tomconroy Apr 2022 OP
It's spiking in New York State right now. SergeStorms Apr 2022 #1
Link? USALiberal Apr 2022 #2
The average number of cases is 77% higher than 14 days ago. Ms. Toad Apr 2022 #34
Thanks!!! USALiberal Apr 2022 #39
This is true Dorian Gray Apr 2022 #51
I suppose you could say it's spiking in Connecticut too. Tomconroy Apr 2022 #3
Ba2 accounts for 95% of all cases in Ireland currently. It's been rampant over the last 6 weeks. OnDoutside Apr 2022 #4
Ba.2 is about 90 percent of the cases in CT now. But no big Tomconroy Apr 2022 #6
We live in the same state! Tickle Apr 2022 #21
Hey. Tomconroy Apr 2022 #42
NHC is up 58% over 2 weeks. n/t Ms. Toad Apr 2022 #35
The Manhattan borough president, Mark Levine, says cases in Manhattan are rising liberal_mama Apr 2022 #54
Yeah RobinA Apr 2022 #65
I agree, but the cases are at about 3000 a day. They had gone down to Scrivener7 Apr 2022 #9
Exactly Dorian Gray Apr 2022 #52
NY isn't spiking Johnny2X2X Apr 2022 #13
I heard it on the radio this morning.... SergeStorms Apr 2022 #28
If I remember correctly, during the Alpha variant and LuckyCharms Apr 2022 #31
I just don't care anymore one bit about the unvaccinated Johnny2X2X Apr 2022 #32
Me either Rebl2 Apr 2022 #41
I agree. SergeStorms Apr 2022 #45
And the CDC numbers for the vaccinated vs unvaccinated deaths are incredible. Johnny2X2X Apr 2022 #50
While I agree it isn't spiking yet - Ms. Toad Apr 2022 #36
Not even close to a hint of exponential growth yet Johnny2X2X Apr 2022 #40
COVID does not exist in the environment that it did 2 years ago Zeitghost Apr 2022 #46
It wasn't a novel virus in, either - Ms. Toad Apr 2022 #57
I've always maintained it would not be "over" Zeitghost Apr 2022 #67
Once is not enough to assume safety from wave after wave. Ms. Toad Apr 2022 #73
It most certainly is Zeitghost Apr 2022 #74
We have all of 2 years data about this disease. Ms. Toad Apr 2022 #75
COVID is here to stay Zeitghost Apr 2022 #76
Then we can expect to have massive health issues and a drain on resources over time. Ms. Toad Apr 2022 #77
That is impossible to do successfully Zeitghost Apr 2022 #79
You're right. I'm in New York State, and I don't LuckyCharms Apr 2022 #30
When you say spiking Dorian Gray Apr 2022 #49
BA.2 is still Omicron, the original is BA.1 IronLionZion Apr 2022 #5
But it is in europe. And they had a big Ba.1 surge in the UK. Tomconroy Apr 2022 #7
We might get it in the US next IronLionZion Apr 2022 #11
I just read the other day that cases are up like 40% in the New England states Native Apr 2022 #8
But it's up 40% from a very low number. So the numbers aren't near Scrivener7 Apr 2022 #10
An increase from 1 to 2 is an increase of 100 percent but it's Tomconroy Apr 2022 #12
True, the article(s) didn't mention the case counts. Native Apr 2022 #14
Or, maybe people with home tests are not reporting positive tests? GoCubsGo Apr 2022 #15
The NYT Email lists a few reasons, including at-home testing teach1st Apr 2022 #19
You're right. Our local county health department is saying the same thing. wnylib Apr 2022 #59
Yeah, Right! As If....... We are still the ticking time bomb at barely over 55% vaccinated. Ford_Prefect Apr 2022 #16
Where Did You Get 55%? ProfessorGAC Apr 2022 #23
At last observed counting you needed the third booster to resist omicron. Ford_Prefect Apr 2022 #47
So, No Answer ProfessorGAC Apr 2022 #72
You want to go toe to toe with someone who actually HAD covid? You're there right now, mate. Ford_Prefect Apr 2022 #78
And then there's the elephant in the room the CDC refuses Tomconroy Apr 2022 #55
Do we care about the unvaccinated here anymore? Johnny2X2X Apr 2022 #24
This message was self-deleted by its author Ford_Prefect Apr 2022 #17
i think one big reason is people are testing at home. barbtries Apr 2022 #18
3 of my neighbors are positive from the home testing. jimfields33 Apr 2022 #20
Even the CDC has said that they're not relying on testing as much as hospitalization rates and Native Apr 2022 #29
CDC tracking Covid in wastewater. CrispyQ Apr 2022 #38
that was fascinating. barbtries Apr 2022 #48
Seems to me he's right. A lot we don't know. That's one reason why we err wiggs Apr 2022 #22
Getting Ready! McKim Apr 2022 #25
I need a link. ananda Apr 2022 #26
Here's a piece on the subject that CNN just put out about a half an hour ago Native Apr 2022 #27
BA.2 is the dominant strain in the US Fiendish Thingy Apr 2022 #33
Doubtful SoonerPride Apr 2022 #37
Democrats have done the work to help the country Johnny2X2X Apr 2022 #43
Still Masking Desert_Leslie Apr 2022 #44
In my county, it's been going up every day. Dr. Scott Gottlieb said yesterday that only about 1 in 8 liberal_mama Apr 2022 #53
If there was a secret spike in cases then it should Tomconroy Apr 2022 #56
Hospitalizations usually lag a couple weeks after the cases, and they are going up in my county liberal_mama Apr 2022 #61
Also, I read that there has been a change in what is considered a Covid hospitalization liberal_mama Apr 2022 #68
No. Tomconroy Apr 2022 #69
In any event, David Leonhardt of the NY Times continues Tomconroy Apr 2022 #58
There was that P1 variant that people said was deadlier. Initech Apr 2022 #60
This thread brought out the doomy faux experts desperately hoping for another wave. BannonsLiver Apr 2022 #62
Indeed it did. And all I wanted to show is that we don't know Tomconroy Apr 2022 #63
They don't want it to go away BannonsLiver Apr 2022 #64
I couldn't believe the amount of misinformation they spread. Tomconroy Apr 2022 #70
This chart shows that Covid is most definitely not spiking here. SoonerPride Apr 2022 #66
You don't want this variant. róisín_dubh Apr 2022 #71
Pos rate is going up here in our NY county Meowmee Apr 2022 #80

Dorian Gray

(13,493 posts)
51. This is true
Wed Apr 6, 2022, 11:03 AM
Apr 2022

We are averaging where we were in October/November, before the Omicron spike.

While it's an increase from our post Omicron low, it's not at an alarming level right now.

Our hospitals have plenty of capacity. And there are not indications that we will have a spike like we did in Dec/January.

Be careful. Protect yourself in NY. I'm still masking in public. It's the prudent thing to do now. Get a second booster if you're eligible.

 

Tomconroy

(7,611 posts)
3. I suppose you could say it's spiking in Connecticut too.
Wed Apr 6, 2022, 07:52 AM
Apr 2022

It's gone from 8 cases per 100000 to 12 cases per 100000, a 50 percent increase in two weeks. But it's still only 12 in 100000. And Ba.2 has been in the northeast since early January.
In New York the big increase is around Syracuse and some other places upstate. Not much in NYC.

 

Tomconroy

(7,611 posts)
6. Ba.2 is about 90 percent of the cases in CT now. But no big
Wed Apr 6, 2022, 08:04 AM
Apr 2022

surge like in europe. That's the whole point.

liberal_mama

(1,495 posts)
54. The Manhattan borough president, Mark Levine, says cases in Manhattan are rising
Wed Apr 6, 2022, 11:10 AM
Apr 2022

Also, I live in Western New York and our cases have been going up a lot.


RobinA

(9,893 posts)
65. Yeah
Wed Apr 6, 2022, 12:36 PM
Apr 2022

Kinda depends on your definition of "spiking." Some people think doubling from 2 cases to 4 is "spiking," even though it was 50,000 in early January. The minute I hear comments about "spiking" and "rampant" I head for the actual numbers. Some people seem to have an interest in hyping COVID as much as possible. Me, I just want it to be over.

Scrivener7

(50,949 posts)
9. I agree, but the cases are at about 3000 a day. They had gone down to
Wed Apr 6, 2022, 08:11 AM
Apr 2022

about 1500 a day for a few weeks, and then this variant doubled it.

But that is nothing compared to the 80,000 cases a day and more that other variants caused, so that is probably why they are saying it isn't spiking.

Johnny2X2X

(19,066 posts)
13. NY isn't spiking
Wed Apr 6, 2022, 08:25 AM
Apr 2022

A modest increase is not a spike, NY went from 2,000 cases a day a month ago to 3500 cases a day now, that's not a spike when they were at 75,000 cases a day during the Winter Omicron surge.

CT is similar, from 300 cases a day a few weeks ago to 480 cases a day now.

Both represent modest gains, but low overall spread.

This guy is right IMO, we don't know a ton about Covid and how it spreads yet. We can speculate or make educated guesses, but research over the coming years will reveal a lot we don't know.

Maybe the Winter Omicron surge was so severe that a large portion of the country has some strong natural immunity right now. But we've got lower new cases than since last Summer when B.A.2 has been taking hold for several weeks now. Not really sure.

SergeStorms

(19,201 posts)
28. I heard it on the radio this morning....
Wed Apr 6, 2022, 09:55 AM
Apr 2022

on my way to get blood work done for an upcoming Doctor's visit.

Maybe you live in a another area, but they said the Finger Lakes region is spiking and they expect it to get worse with Easter coming up. There isn't an invisible force field around the Finger Lakes region, so I imagine it's spiking statewide.

No one is taking precautions anymore. I feel like the Lone Ranger in public being the only person wearing a mask. Screw 'em. I don't care what they think.

LuckyCharms

(17,425 posts)
31. If I remember correctly, during the Alpha variant and
Wed Apr 6, 2022, 10:02 AM
Apr 2022

perhaps even the Delta variant, the cases were initially unbelievably low in the Ithaca area, and people were trying to figure out what they were doing correctly that caused their cases to be so low.

Then all of a sudden they had a huge spike. I can't remember during which variant that spike occurred, but I remember reading a few articles about it.

Johnny2X2X

(19,066 posts)
32. I just don't care anymore one bit about the unvaccinated
Wed Apr 6, 2022, 10:05 AM
Apr 2022

Maybe that makes me a bad person, but the statistics for boosted people are so overwhelming that I feel safety measures right now are just there to protect the unvaccinated idiots from their own poor choices. If you're boosted, Covid simply isn't a significant threat right now, of course that could change in the future. And of course I do care about immune compromised people, they deserve protection. But when you've got a solution to this pandemic (vaccinations and boosters) and 25% of the country refused the solution, I no longer am so gung ho on protecting this 25%, let them die.

Rebl2

(13,501 posts)
41. Me either
Wed Apr 6, 2022, 10:28 AM
Apr 2022

They have had plenty of opportunities to get vaccinated. They don’t care if they spread it to family and friends or people that have long term illness that are more vulnerable. I am tired of their whining and so let them get it and see if that changes their mind.

SergeStorms

(19,201 posts)
45. I agree.
Wed Apr 6, 2022, 10:44 AM
Apr 2022

I'm getting my second booster shot this afternoon.

Anyone not getting vaccinated - other than someone for a specific medical exemption - isn't worth the salt in their family's tears when they contract COVID and die.

I've had it with them.

Johnny2X2X

(19,066 posts)
50. And the CDC numbers for the vaccinated vs unvaccinated deaths are incredible.
Wed Apr 6, 2022, 11:03 AM
Apr 2022

It's really just a hand full of fully vaxxed and boosted people dying a day right now. The rest are almost all unvaxxed idiots with a few dozen partially vaccinated people too.

We're talking if 500 people die of Covid today, only a few are boosted, perhaps a couple dozen are vaccinated with 1 or 2 shots, and perhaps 475 are antivaccine morons. Let the morons die, the country is better without them.

Ms. Toad

(34,069 posts)
36. While I agree it isn't spiking yet -
Wed Apr 6, 2022, 10:17 AM
Apr 2022

Remember, from two very short years ago, that's how exponential growth works. It seems like it is slow and manageable, until it isn't.

Johnny2X2X

(19,066 posts)
40. Not even close to a hint of exponential growth yet
Wed Apr 6, 2022, 10:26 AM
Apr 2022

And we're 6 weeks now from when the new Omicron variant started to take over.

As the article in questions says, we might not see a spike from this variant and we're not sure why. Could it be that the US has herd immunity" to an extent that no variant can really wreck havoc right now? Maybe, doesn't mean that 6 months from now that immunity doesn't wane enough for another wave, we just don't know.

Zeitghost

(3,858 posts)
46. COVID does not exist in the environment that it did 2 years ago
Wed Apr 6, 2022, 10:48 AM
Apr 2022

Between vaccines, natural infection and in many cases both, the pool of potential victims is much smaller. Especially now after the holiday Omicron wave. Cases will continue to go up and down regionally/seasonally but the waves of massive spikes were never sustainable at the levels we saw over the past two years. It is no longer a novel virus.

Ms. Toad

(34,069 posts)
57. It wasn't a novel virus in, either -
Wed Apr 6, 2022, 11:32 AM
Apr 2022

when rates of infection were triple the highest prior rate of the entire pandemic.

It is far too early to declare this a seasonal/regional virus - especially given some extremely high spikes in other similarly vaccinated, similarly previously infected countries.

If my recollection is correct, you've been declaring it over since long before omicron came along.

Zeitghost

(3,858 posts)
67. I've always maintained it would not be "over"
Wed Apr 6, 2022, 12:50 PM
Apr 2022

Until most had been infected at least once.

We are not quite there but we are close and we will no longer see the massive spikes, especially with deaths and hospitalizations going forward. It's a simple numbers game, if COVID didn't kill you the first time you had it, the odds of getting a serious or deadly case on subsequent infections is extremely low. Combine that with the great success the vaccines have had on the individual level and you simply don't have the numbers to sustain wave after wave.

I've seen daily claims here about cases spiking and yet when I go to update the dataset I maintain every few days, I find the exact opposite to be true. I was called out last week here on DU for challenging these claims by pointing out that a daily jump of a few hundred when cases had been fluctuating between 29,000 and 32,000 for two weeks did not indicate an upward trend. We care now at 25,000...


Ms. Toad

(34,069 posts)
73. Once is not enough to assume safety from wave after wave.
Wed Apr 6, 2022, 05:35 PM
Apr 2022

Many people are getting infected multiple times - AND - many who have been vaccinated are getting infected.

Cases are climbing in my county, and have been higher each week since 3/20 - with a higher increase each week (2%, 4%, and now 8%). Aside from omicron, growth starts slowly and then - once it's too late to do anything to prevent a spike - rapidly speeds up.

Zeitghost

(3,858 posts)
74. It most certainly is
Wed Apr 6, 2022, 05:58 PM
Apr 2022

The hospitalization and mortality rate for the vaccinated is low and it's minuscule for reinfections. Not only because those previously infected have some level of immunity but there is a built in selection bias in those who survived the first infection. Wave after wave of hospitalizations and deaths is simply not sustainable.

Cases may be up in your county as well as many others. But on the whole they are not rising in the US. The average daily case count is half what it was a month ago and 16X lower than 2 months ago.

Ms. Toad

(34,069 posts)
75. We have all of 2 years data about this disease.
Wed Apr 6, 2022, 06:06 PM
Apr 2022

What we know about ongoing consequences, already, should be enough to drive a sincere effort not just to avoid immediate hospitalization and death - but to avoid infection.

Even people with mild cases (including some who didn't even know they had COVID) have an increase in heart disease, loss of brain matter, and - at a minimum - short term loss of executive functioning and memory. Those are just the first studies, and they cover a bare 2 years of history with this disease.

We are courting a long term health care disaster if all we worry about is whether they are (in the short term) hospitalized or die.

Zeitghost

(3,858 posts)
76. COVID is here to stay
Wed Apr 6, 2022, 06:49 PM
Apr 2022

Once it left Wuhan, there was no stopping it's course. We can improve individual outcomes through vaccines and therapeutics but we can not stop its spread, full stop. It is simply far too contagious and mutates far too quickly, not to mention the number of natural reservoirs it has in other species.

With that in mind, the only reasonable course is to enact measures needed to keep the health care system functioning and when severe and deadly cases remain at low level, you allow people to make individual choices. Anything else simply won't work.

Ms. Toad

(34,069 posts)
77. Then we can expect to have massive health issues and a drain on resources over time.
Wed Apr 6, 2022, 08:30 PM
Apr 2022

It is the height of stupidity to pretend a disease that is 2 years old is a innocuous as a cold, or the flu, long term - especially when we have evidence to the contrary.

Our policies - and messaging - should be directed toward disease prevention, not merely avoiding immediate death.

Zeitghost

(3,858 posts)
79. That is impossible to do successfully
Wed Apr 6, 2022, 10:00 PM
Apr 2022

COVID will spread no matter what we do. That is reality. Short of living a hermit lifestyle, which is not sustainable on a group level for any period of time, it will continue to move through the population, just like every other highly communicable and quickly mutating disease we know of. We can slow it slightly and we can improve individual outcomes quite successfully, but there is no stopping it.

I wish that were not true, but it's the reality we now live in. Zero COVID is an unattainable fantasy.

LuckyCharms

(17,425 posts)
30. You're right. I'm in New York State, and I don't
Wed Apr 6, 2022, 09:57 AM
Apr 2022

wish to reveal my county, but although I would not exactly call it a "spike" where I am, it certainly has been increasing quite significantly every day for the past few weeks.

Dorian Gray

(13,493 posts)
49. When you say spiking
Wed Apr 6, 2022, 11:01 AM
Apr 2022

you are in one way right. BA2 is spiking here.... But NY State has about a 7 day daily average of 3600 cases a day.

At the peak of Omicron NY state was averaging over 70,000 cases a day.

The BA.2 surge started at a lower point than Omicron started. And there is a decent amount of prior infection and vaccination in NY State, and no health experts expect it to spike or surge as much as BA.1 did.

There are even indicators in the Northeast that wastewater levels are leveling off/declining.


?s=20&t=Qyh3FFbWyHlzucm3WPLdtg

(Boston Wastewater studies are better than NYC, but they tend to mirror each other in growth of cases)

So, it is spiking here, but it should NOT cause the alarm that we felt back in December/January.



IronLionZion

(45,441 posts)
5. BA.2 is still Omicron, the original is BA.1
Wed Apr 6, 2022, 07:59 AM
Apr 2022
BA.2 differs from BA.1 in its genetic sequence, including some amino acid differences in the spike protein and other proteins. Studies have shown that BA.2 has a growth advantage over BA.1. Studies are ongoing to understand the reasons for this growth advantage, but initial data suggest that BA.2 appears inherently more transmissible than BA.1, which currently remains the most common Omicron sublineage reported. This difference in transmissibility appears to be much smaller than, for example, the difference between BA.1 and Delta. Further, although BA.2 sequences are increasing in proportion relative to other Omicron sublineages (BA.1 and BA.1.1), there is still a reported decline in overall cases globally.

Studies are evaluating the risk of reinfection with BA.2 compared to BA.1. Reinfection with BA.2 following infection with BA.1 has been documented, however, initial data from population-level reinfection studies suggest that infection with BA.1 provides strong protection against reinfection with BA.2, at least for the limited period for which data are available.

https://www.who.int/news/item/22-02-2022-statement-on-omicron-sublineage-ba.2


So BA.2 is not soaring high in places that had a lot of BA.1

IronLionZion

(45,441 posts)
11. We might get it in the US next
Wed Apr 6, 2022, 08:18 AM
Apr 2022

since we have similar conditions of removed restrictions and waning immunity.

It sounds like it flares up in certain regional hotspots at various times. My city had a lot of BA.1 this winter.

Native

(5,942 posts)
8. I just read the other day that cases are up like 40% in the New England states
Wed Apr 6, 2022, 08:10 AM
Apr 2022

And it's only been a week since experts were saying that it was going to be 2 to 3 weeks before we saw a spike here.

Scrivener7

(50,949 posts)
10. But it's up 40% from a very low number. So the numbers aren't near
Wed Apr 6, 2022, 08:13 AM
Apr 2022

the spikes we got on other variants.

Thank God.

 

Tomconroy

(7,611 posts)
12. An increase from 1 to 2 is an increase of 100 percent but it's
Wed Apr 6, 2022, 08:18 AM
Apr 2022

still only 2. Omicron was doubling every few days for a month.

GoCubsGo

(32,083 posts)
15. Or, maybe people with home tests are not reporting positive tests?
Wed Apr 6, 2022, 08:31 AM
Apr 2022

And, most of the positives are not serious enough to require hospitalization?

teach1st

(5,935 posts)
19. The NYT Email lists a few reasons, including at-home testing
Wed Apr 6, 2022, 08:58 AM
Apr 2022
1. More immunity
Even though the U.S. has a lower vaccination rate than Western Europe, this country may still have built up more immunity — thanks to our politically polarized response to the virus.

In liberal parts of the U.S., vaccination rates can be even higher than in Europe. In conservative communities, many Americans have been so dismissive of Covid that they have long been living almost normally. As a result, the virus has already swept through these communities, conferring at least some immunity on many people.

This laissez-faire approach has had horrible downsides. Covid death rates have been much higher in counties that voted for Donald Trump than those that voted for Joe Biden. But for people who survived a prior Covid infection, it does confer some immune protection, especially if it was recent.

“Most of Europe has been pretty Covid averse,” William Hanage, a Harvard epidemiologist, said on a recent episode of the “In the Bubble” podcast, “whereas parts of the United States have been quite Covid curious.” Hanage said that he still expected U.S. caseloads to rise soon. But, he added, “I don’t think it’s going to be as dramatic as Europe.”

If that’s correct, a preview is already visible in the Northeast, where cases have been rising lately, but not as steeply as in Europe.

One possible reason: There are not as many Americans vulnerable to infection. The earlier version of the Omicron variant seems to have infected about 45 percent of Americans, according to Andy Slavitt, a former Covid adviser in the Biden White House. That share appears to be higher than Europe’s.

2. Fewer tests
The shift toward at-home testing in recent months means that a smaller share of actual Covid cases may be showing up in the data that government agencies report and news organizations like The Times publish. The government data relies on laboratory tests.

Another potential factor depressing the volume of tests is reduced access for lower-income Americans. Some uninsured people now must pay for their own tests, and many testing clinics have closed.

All of which raises the possibility that Covid cases really are surging now, even if the data doesn’t show it.

Jessica Malaty Rivera of Boston Children’s Hospital told The Atlantic that the quality of current Covid data was “abysmal.” Dr. Scott Gottlieb, a former F.D.A. commissioner, told CNBC that he thought some parts of the country were “dramatically” underreporting cases.

This chart suggests that underreporting is a real issue. As you can see, official testing in several European countries increased as BA.2 spread, while testing in the U.S. has declined modestly.

Comparisons across countries are affected by different testing policies and reporting methods. Still, the shortage of testing does not seem to be the only reason that cases have not surged in the U.S. Trends in Covid hospitalizations typically lag case trends by only about a week. And hospitalizations have continued to fall in the U.S., to their lowest level in more than two years.

3. Just wait
Even if high levels of immunity have kept cases from rising so far, the effect may not be permanent. Remember: About 45 percent of Americans were infected with Omicron, which leaves about 55 percent who were not. While many of those 55 percent may have had an earlier version of Covid, immunity can wane over time.

The current moment might be one of those times when we’re asking why cases have not begun to rise right as they begin to rise. “It may be too early to see a signal,” Jennifer Nuzzo, a Brown University epidemiologist, told me.

4. Another mystery
Throughout the pandemic, Osterholm — the Minnesota epidemiologist — has lamented that many scientists, journalists and laypeople exaggerate how much we actually know about Covid. His favorite example: The Alpha variant swept through Michigan and Minnesota last year and then largely died out, without causing case increases in other parts of the U.S. Another example: BA.2 has recently become the dominant variant in India, South Africa and some other countries without causing a spike in cases.

When I called Osterholm yesterday to ask why cases had not surged over the past few weeks, he simply said: “I don’t know, and I don’t think anybody really knows.”

Of all the variants, only the original Omicron was so contagious that it spread around the world in predictable ways, he said. Other versions of the virus have surged and receded in mysterious ways, much as a forest fire can die out without burning down an entire forest.

The bottom line: Cases still seem likely to rise, perhaps significantly, in the U.S. soon. But a new wave looks less certain than it did a few weeks ago. Regardless, the steps that can save lives in coming months remain the same: more vaccine shots, including boosters; and greater awareness of available treatments that offer extra protection for the vulnerable.

wnylib

(21,449 posts)
59. You're right. Our local county health department is saying the same thing.
Wed Apr 6, 2022, 11:49 AM
Apr 2022

They don't even try to keep track of the number of cases any more because of home tests and unreported cases. But they are doing public service announcements to remind people that the pandemic is not over yet and to continue precautions if you are vulnerable to getting a bad case due to underlying conditions.

Fauci says that B.2 is now the dominant strain in the US, but I wonder how anyone knows that without tracking being done any more. He also says that he expects cases to go up, but that a surge is unlikely.



Ford_Prefect

(7,896 posts)
16. Yeah, Right! As If....... We are still the ticking time bomb at barely over 55% vaccinated.
Wed Apr 6, 2022, 08:33 AM
Apr 2022

More poorly stated semi-truth from journalists who are NOT epidemiologists. Busy bees buzzing one more half truth into our cultural mythology.

Whatever the long term reality may yet turn out to be this piece is but a snapshot. We've seen similar estimations overturned during the last 2 years. One consistent element is the often repeated American Exceptionalism. More than 1/2 the world's population remains unvaccinated and "we" are safe?

ProfessorGAC

(65,021 posts)
23. Where Did You Get 55%?
Wed Apr 6, 2022, 09:25 AM
Apr 2022

Both "Our World In Data" & the CDC show 218 million fully vaccinated & 256 million at least one shot, with 98 million boosted.
That's 66% fully vaxxed & 77.6% partially.
55% understates the number of fully vaxxed by 34 million people.

Ford_Prefect

(7,896 posts)
47. At last observed counting you needed the third booster to resist omicron.
Wed Apr 6, 2022, 10:50 AM
Apr 2022

98 million boosted is not nearly enough. This leaves out Africa, Asia, and South America. we are such a very long way from over to joke about it is in terribly bad taste.

There is also the question of distribution. I live in the Jihad Cowboy land of Montana. There are concentrations of vaccinated and boosted surrounded by large numbers of those who outright refuse. Similar conditions exist in other "red" states where fertile ground has been laid for any virulent variant arriving from elsewhere.

While it is a laudable accomplishment that we have so many who are inoculated against the several current variants research has pointed out that resistance fades significantly after a fairly short time frame of 3 to 4 months. In that regard we have far yet to go in the cycle.

The CDC has just approved a 2nd booster for those over 50 hopefully just in time to meet the next variant wave.

ProfessorGAC

(65,021 posts)
72. So, No Answer
Wed Apr 6, 2022, 01:51 PM
Apr 2022

Because 98 million boosted is not 55% either.
Also, one didn't NEED a booster to ward off severe omicron. It was a significant advantage, of course.
But, many vaxxed but unboosted people survived omicron, quite well.
Finally, you made a claim unsupported by the facts, so you changed the subject.
Weak sauce.

Ford_Prefect

(7,896 posts)
78. You want to go toe to toe with someone who actually HAD covid? You're there right now, mate.
Wed Apr 6, 2022, 09:44 PM
Apr 2022

And NO your numbers don't add up in every circumstance. Immunity is not a uniform nor permanent condition for the entire vaccinated population. There is a wide range of sensitivity and potential severity of infection depending on age and conditions which can affect immunity such as Diabetes or Asthma. Surviving COVID is no panacea either. The immunity benefit is short term and far less than the 3rd booster grants.

Which is to say nothing of Long COVID.

We are in a probably brief pause in the cycle. While it is unlikely we will see the dramatic spikes of the first year of COVID we are far from out of the woods. Along with that many people we depend upon to grow food and produce other needful things are still refusing to vaccinate or mask. While I may not become infected by them I still need groceries and other goods and services they are employed to provide. If they become ill or worse that will be a population whose absence will absolutely affect our lives, who will not be any more replaceable than the medical professionals and services their illness will demand.

 

Tomconroy

(7,611 posts)
55. And then there's the elephant in the room the CDC refuses
Wed Apr 6, 2022, 11:24 AM
Apr 2022

to talk about: acquired immunity through prior infection.

Johnny2X2X

(19,066 posts)
24. Do we care about the unvaccinated here anymore?
Wed Apr 6, 2022, 09:29 AM
Apr 2022

Covid is still severe, hut mainly only if you’re not vaccinated. The boosted are 97 times less likely to die from Covid than the unvaccinated, they’re 4 or 5 times less likely to even get Covid, even with Omicron.

If it weren’t for the immune vulnerable in the US, I’d say let the unvaccinated all get it and roll the dice on whether they’ll live or not.

Bottom line is getting boosted virtually eliminates the threat of severe Covid for most Americans. Only 29% of the country is boosted though. Get boosted!

Response to Tomconroy (Original post)

barbtries

(28,793 posts)
18. i think one big reason is people are testing at home.
Wed Apr 6, 2022, 08:51 AM
Apr 2022

My son and his wife have had it for over a week in CA. They tested at home and haven't reported it to my knowledge. At the same time, a colleague's son and his wife in the UK tested positive. The implication was that they would miss his sister's wedding. I don't know if it was reported.

The metrics on the NC Covid dashboard have changed and now I cannot easily go into it to get the current positive rate. My feeling is that it is probably grossly inaccurate due to home testing. I'll take it though, and hope like hell that everyone who tests positive at home responds responsibly. I know these 2 couples have.

jimfields33

(15,793 posts)
20. 3 of my neighbors are positive from the home testing.
Wed Apr 6, 2022, 09:05 AM
Apr 2022

They are staying home for five days. I think it’s a total honor system now. I guess as adults we should expect that.

Native

(5,942 posts)
29. Even the CDC has said that they're not relying on testing as much as hospitalization rates and
Wed Apr 6, 2022, 09:57 AM
Apr 2022

Wastewater because of the surge in at home testing. That said even wastewater rates are not showing much of an increase; however, with spring break and Easter coming up things could change. And odd stuff like rising cases in California, where they had the lowest, could be concerning. This CNN article that just came out is pretty good https://www.cnn.com/2022/04/06/health/where-is-ba-2/index.html

barbtries

(28,793 posts)
48. that was fascinating.
Wed Apr 6, 2022, 10:58 AM
Apr 2022

maybe another part of the equation is less severe illness. i hope so.

thanks for the link

wiggs

(7,812 posts)
22. Seems to me he's right. A lot we don't know. That's one reason why we err
Wed Apr 6, 2022, 09:22 AM
Apr 2022

on the side of caution ourselves and understand that individuals should seek out their own information and prepare accordingly based on their own circumstances. One size does not fit all.

Mysterious indeed.

McKim

(2,412 posts)
25. Getting Ready!
Wed Apr 6, 2022, 09:45 AM
Apr 2022

I am getting ready to live at home again: Buying fabric to sew, laying in supplies for the garden, and we have stopped grocery shopping in person. Meanwhile while we can we are going out to films, plays, lectures and we are having indoor dinner parties like 3 a week to show friends how much we love them while we can! Thank heavens summer is coming and we can have people over in the garden. We are preparing for a surge.

Fiendish Thingy

(15,610 posts)
33. BA.2 is the dominant strain in the US
Wed Apr 6, 2022, 10:07 AM
Apr 2022

72% of all new cases (and that’s with greatly reduced testing)

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/ba2-subvariant-now-72-percent-new-covid-cases-experts-say-dont-panic-rcna23086

I think we will see a delayed spike in a few weeks as more people with waning immunity get infected.

SoonerPride

(12,286 posts)
37. Doubtful
Wed Apr 6, 2022, 10:17 AM
Apr 2022

If it is already the dominant strain and hasn't caused a spike it is highly unlikely to cause one later this spring.

Johnny2X2X

(19,066 posts)
43. Democrats have done the work to help the country
Wed Apr 6, 2022, 10:38 AM
Apr 2022

Know that it's still Democrats leading the effort to curtail the spread.

The other day on a bipartisan board, we were debating about how the media and some politicians misled the public on Covid. Some RWNJ posted poll results about how liberals overestimated the hospitalization rate for Covid, like that was some gotcha or something. Yeah, some liberals overestimated Covid's danger, so they were more vigilant about not getting or spreading it, and saved a lot of lives because of that.

This has killed over a million people in the US, erring on the side of caution isn't some black mark, it's a badge of honor. The media and politicians who erred on the side of caution saved lives. The ones who downplayed Covid cost the US hundreds of thousands of lives completely unnecessarily. Bothsiderism is not applicable here.

Desert_Leslie

(131 posts)
44. Still Masking
Wed Apr 6, 2022, 10:40 AM
Apr 2022

Hubs and I still mask indoors outside our home. We wear only N95 or higher masks. We still strictly eat outside (patios) at restaurants ... and that's IF it's not crowded. We just got our second booster shots this Monday (feel fine).

Everywhere I go -- grocery store, Walgreens, Target -- there are just very widely scattered people with masks on. (We live in Scottsdale.)

I've come to this conclusion: It's every person for themselves. Hubs and I are going to do absolutely everything we can do to stay uninfected (so far, so good). If it takes some "sacrifice" -- and I say this sarcastically -- like not eating indoors or, God forbid, wearing a mask everywhere, so be it. It's a small price to pay.

Other people wearing masks, maintaining social distance? LOL

liberal_mama

(1,495 posts)
53. In my county, it's been going up every day. Dr. Scott Gottlieb said yesterday that only about 1 in 8
Wed Apr 6, 2022, 11:06 AM
Apr 2022

cases are being officially counted. I think most people are testing at home now so the true numbers aren't being counted. I live in New York State and things have been deteriorating again by the day. Yesterday, my county's positivity rate was 8.1% and around 120/per 100,000. I'm surprised the New York Times doesn't keep better track of what's going on in New York. Manhattan has moved into yellow and has over 200/per 100,000.

 

Tomconroy

(7,611 posts)
56. If there was a secret spike in cases then it should
Wed Apr 6, 2022, 11:28 AM
Apr 2022

be reflected in an increase in hospitalizations. Unless everyone has acquired deep cell immunity through vaccination or prior infection.

liberal_mama

(1,495 posts)
61. Hospitalizations usually lag a couple weeks after the cases, and they are going up in my county
Wed Apr 6, 2022, 11:58 AM
Apr 2022

Maybe the anti-viral pills might be preventing some hospitalizations too. But there are a lot of cases and most aren't being reported due to home testing. People need to protect themselves with very good masks right now.

liberal_mama

(1,495 posts)
68. Also, I read that there has been a change in what is considered a Covid hospitalization
Wed Apr 6, 2022, 01:01 PM
Apr 2022

Apparently, probably to make the numbers looks better, a patient now has to receive a certain medication to be counted as a Covid hospitalization.

 

Tomconroy

(7,611 posts)
58. In any event, David Leonhardt of the NY Times continues
Wed Apr 6, 2022, 11:39 AM
Apr 2022

to give the most original and most insightful coverage of Covid of any journalist, and of any scientist.
Period.

Initech

(100,070 posts)
60. There was that P1 variant that people said was deadlier.
Wed Apr 6, 2022, 11:54 AM
Apr 2022

But it didn't take hold outside of Brazil. Maybe it's climate or regional adaptive? Or something else we don't know?

BannonsLiver

(16,385 posts)
62. This thread brought out the doomy faux experts desperately hoping for another wave.
Wed Apr 6, 2022, 12:23 PM
Apr 2022

Don’t worry ghouls, I’m sure you’ll get your wave soon. Just be patient.

 

Tomconroy

(7,611 posts)
63. Indeed it did. And all I wanted to show is that we don't know
Wed Apr 6, 2022, 12:26 PM
Apr 2022

as much about Covid as scientists claim.

BannonsLiver

(16,385 posts)
64. They don't want it to go away
Wed Apr 6, 2022, 12:36 PM
Apr 2022

Their self worth is tied up in adulation they receive here for their supposed expertise. If cases are low and people aren’t talking about it that endorphin rush goes away. Some posters practically had fan clubs here of devotees last summer. Question anything they say and the devotees pounced. Ahhh the heady days of Delta.

SoonerPride

(12,286 posts)
66. This chart shows that Covid is most definitely not spiking here.
Wed Apr 6, 2022, 12:48 PM
Apr 2022


It is the dominant strain and is not causing a huge surge.

Good.

róisín_dubh

(11,794 posts)
71. You don't want this variant.
Wed Apr 6, 2022, 01:26 PM
Apr 2022

I'd reckon I have BA2. It's my second go-round with it (and yes, I had two shots, then got Delta in the UK's Delta summer surge, then got boosted and am recovering 10 days out from +). The GI distress is, ah, unpleasant to say the least and I can't really take many cold medicines. So my sinuses are a wreck. I had one day of fever and feeling kinda crummy and 9 days of fatigue and a combo cold/stomach thing going on.

I hate this.

Meowmee

(5,164 posts)
80. Pos rate is going up here in our NY county
Thu Apr 7, 2022, 12:04 AM
Apr 2022

Not like omicron 1 but still going up. We are still masking and sd everywhere.

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