The Democrats' Giant Dilemma John Fetterman's blue-collar progressivism has endeared him

[Demsrule86]

to Pennsylvania voters. Why are so many Democratic leaders opposing his Senate run?

I wanted to post something that would show who Fetterman is...he is running for Senate and I believe has a good shot...currently the front runner. The article is excellent...and I think some reading it will understand why Pennsylvanians love the guy. I lived in PA during his early career. And since I am close to PA (could walk there), I plan to help with the campaign. I am as some know working for Tim Ryan's campaign in Ohio. I don't know if we will win but we have elected moderate clean-shaven types to run for this seat countless times and lost...Time for a change. And I believe Fetterman would be a great Senator and possibly a president one day. Some think this is a basic disagreement in how the party moves forward...I don't disagree. However, I do not believe you can realistically leave the working people of places like Ohio and Pennsylvania and concentrate on cities and minority votes...I think you need both types of voters. I look at the map and you need the rustbelt and will for the foreseeable future. Fetterman has done much to get people out of prison many innocent or serving excessive prison terms...it is all in this article. Fetterman is a great guy and has a great story.

"Fetterman first exploded onto the national scene shortly after he was elected mayor of Braddock, a small, dilapidated town outside Pittsburgh, in 2005. Mayors of 2,000-person boroughs don’t typically receive much attention. But Fetterman had a story: A man who could pass for a Hells Angel and had a Harvard degree was revitalizing a place that epitomized the rise and fall of America’s steel industry—building a community center, renovating crumbling properties, talking about using art “to combat the dark side of capitalism.” Within a few years, he appeared in the Atlantic’s “25 Brave Thinkers” issue and was invited to speak at the Aspen Ideas Festival. In 2018, he was elected lieutenant governor of the state, on a ticket with Gov. Tom Wolf, in a landslide.

In 1993, Fetterman’s best friend was killed in a car accident while on the way to pick him up.
Searching for meaning after the earth-shattering loss, the 24-year-old Fetterman volunteered at the Big Brothers Big Sisters program, where he was paired with a young kid named Nicky Santana. The boy’s dad had died of AIDS. Not long afterward, his mother did, too.
That “one-two punch,” as he calls it, sent Fetterman into a spiral contemplating the cruelty of inequality.“It was all born out of that random lottery of birth,” Fetterman says. “What stopped me from being the guy driving to his house and dying in a car accident? What’s to say that it wasn’t me who would bury both of my parents from a horrific disease like AIDS before my ninth birthday?”

That led him to make a drastic career change: He ditched his job at a lucrative insurance firm and joined AmeriCorps in Pittsburgh. He went to Harvard’s Kennedy School of Government and studied public policy. Eventually, he found himself in Braddock, where he was hired to run a GED program.
The first time he drove around the town, he says, “it felt like ruins … you could just tell something really amazing happened here and then something really bad happened here.” What had happened was steel: Braddock was once a boomtown that nearly 21,000 people called home. When it went bust, it became one of the most impoverished and crime-ridden communities in the state. Today, 37 percent of Braddock’s 1,869 residents live in poverty, and the per capita income is about $15,000. A large majority of the population is Black.


"At a shoot at his home in Braddock, Pennsylvania—a converted car dealership full of salvaged treasures that looks like something out of Architectural Digest—he’s not trying to hide his grumpiness even a little bit. He says he’ll pose for photos only while standing. (He’s 6 foot 8.) His senior campaign aide, Bobby Maggio, thanks a photographer for “dealing with Cranky Pants.” Fetterman jokes—although it’s clear he’s only half-kidding—that people prefer to take pictures of his wife, Gisele, and their dog."

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2021/04/16/john-fetterman-profile-2022-senate-politics-pennsylvania-481259

[hlthe2b]

1. Why, exactly should we NOT like him? (and I do)

[Magoo48]

3. I like him too. I like most blue collar progressives.

[Demsrule86]

11. I love the guy and I don't know why some don't like...but I have been surprised at the

anger of some on a different OP I made.

[Amishman]

40. Moderates don't like his progressivism on economic issues

And some progressives don't like that he seems to tie things back first and foremost to economic inequality.

That being said, I like the guy and think his outlook is a good fit for the PA electorate

[gab13by13]

2. The only dilemma is with establishment Democrats,

who want Lamb. The people want Fetterman. Wife and I can't wait to vote for Big John.

So far all I have seen from Lamb are the Willie Horton ads. I doubt he wants to talk about his voting record. I will refrain from talking about it, unless poked.

Also, this has pissed off a lot of Democrats, like me, Malcolm Kenyatta is also on the ticket, a liberal from Philadelphia who will take votes away from Fetterman. What pisses me off is that Kenyatta is still running for his House seat after he loses the primary. Not a good look for me, I find it hard to believe that Kenyatta thinks he has a chance to win. I could be wrong, I'm wrong a lot.

[Demsrule86]

13. That is how I see it too...and we have run that sort of candidate for years to no avail...Fetterman

is perfect for PA. I used to live in PA and now live almost next door in Ohio...we could walk to PA and get the news from PA in our market. If you read the article I posted only excerpts quite long...he is very inspiring and has heart for the people.

[mcar]

77. What does "establishment Democrats" mean?

[Demsrule86]

81. It means the PA party who all but endorsed Connor Lamb...they are the party guys.

I don't believe in establishment talk as you know...but these folks have helped pick candidates that lose year in and year out. I want to win. I believe Fetterman is unique to PA and can win.

[brooklynite]

94. "The Party Guys"""...IOW the people responsible for getting candidates elected.

What do they know?

[Dorian Gray]

97. Sometimes they know a lot

but Fetterman has the makings for a political dynamo.

I'm in NYC. I am familiar with him. I think he's got IT and has cross party appeal that Lamb doesn't have.

[brooklynite]

100. It the "cross party appeal" that I see people leaping to assumptions about.

[Dorian Gray]

102. It's an assumption

but Lamb doesn't excite the democrats, let alone the independents or undecideds. I'm sorry. I think it's a mistake to push for him.

PA is not my state, so we will see what happens. Outside observer here. I'm not emotionally involved, and if I'm wrong and Lamb wins the primary, I'll support him in the election.

[Demsrule86]

110. Fetterman is up by 30 points...it is likely he will win and I love the guy. I now live in Ohio

so I can't vote for Fetterman but I lived in PA for years...he can win.

[Dorian Gray]

120. It's looking good for him

[Demsrule86]

121. Yes it is...hence the ad today by a Pac that supports Connor Lamb...it was not true and

(maybe desperate) there was pressure from DC to take it down...they don't want a damaged candidate in the general. Liz Warren was involved. She was my second choice after Biden.

[Demsrule86]

139. I could see Fetterman running for president in 2028

[Demsrule86]

104. Well someone did a pretty crappy job of it in Pennsylvania...I give you Katie McGinty who sadly lost

[Dorian Gray]

96. I tend to vote for center dems

and I would vote for Fetterman over Lamb. I think he has the makings of a political star, to be honest.

[Demsrule86]

106. I tend to vote for center Dems too as anyone who reads my posts knows. I live in Ohio so that is who

usually runs. But I really like Fetterman. I think he can win. He is the real deal.

[dchill]

4. I don't get it, either. I like him!

[Demsrule86]

14. We are on the same page for sure.

[rogue emissary]

5. His history of vigilantism is why a lot of Democrats oppose his run.

[empedocles]

6. cite please

[rogue emissary]

27. Fetterman justifies -- but does not apologize for -- chasing down and brandishing shotgun at Black jog

Fetterman justifies — but does not apologize for — chasing down and brandishing shotgun at Black jogger while Braddock mayor

https://www.pghcitypaper.com/pittsburgh/fetterman-justifies-but-does-not-apologize-for-chasing-down-and-brandishing-shotgun-at-black-jogger-while-braddock-mayor/Content?oid=18901042

In December 2013, Fetterman chased a Black jogger in his pickup truck after hearing what he thought were gunshots while playing outside with his son, according to media reports. He then held up the unarmed man, Chris Miyares, with a shotgun while waiting for police to arrive.

[Demsrule86]

30. Yeah this is the guy who is in prison for among other crimes kidnapping for ransom and false

imprisonment...he wrote a letter from prison.

[rogue emissary]

35. You do realize that crime was committed after the incident.

You keep bringing it up as if Fetterman detaining him was how the police eventually arrested him

[Demsrule86]

38. I didn't say that. I said he is now in prison for serious crimes...I have not idea if he committed

crimes before the incident. He is in prison now.

[rogue emissary]

43. So why bring it up?

The police let him go after Fetterman detained him.

[Demsrule86]

45. I take issue with the portrayal of this guy as an innocent jogger...from what I have read, he is a

career criminal.

[rogue emissary]

46. He was a innocent Jogger.

Fetterman didn't know his criminal past or if he committed a recent crime.

He saw a unarmed man running, period.

That's not enough to chase and detained a man.

[Demsrule86]

54. You don't know the guys history first of all. And Fetterman heard a gun shot and talked to the guy..

I don't call that vigilantism...and the fact this guy is now in prison limits the damage this incident can cause Fetterman...which is good because it is all bullshit.

[rogue emissary]

58. Knowing his history means it's justified in chasing him down???

He talked to the guy while pointing a shotgun at his chest.

Don't leave out that huge detail out.

Clearly, I call that vigilantism.

[Demsrule86]

60. He heard a gun shot. I found a woman wondering around my back yard and confronted her..

called the cops. She was having some sort of breakdown. Does that make me a vigilante? And regardless of what you say, the fact this guy is in prison makes the accusation toothless.

[rogue emissary]

61. In a neighborhood that is prone to hearing gun shots.

So why chase this one individual that didn't have a gun?

Did you confront her with a gun? Did you stop her from leaving your yard? Did you point your gun at her chest?

If you answered yes to any of those questions . Yes, you are a vigilante.

It isn't an accusation, it's an event that shows Fetterman judgement.

Clearly, you can excuse it and I don't.

[Demsrule86]

64. Such nonsense....the police came and it was handled...given the circumstances you are wasting

your time. I think Fetterman has good judgment.

[rogue emissary]

67. You questioned why anyone wouldn't support Fetterman.

I brought up a incident that many of Fetterman detractors highlight as the reason why they won't support him.

Again you clearly don't have a problem with this behavior.

I and many other have a problem with this behavior.

[Demsrule86]

75. Well since he is 30+ points ahead...it isn't a good enough reason for many...but that one incident

in Braddock...no I don't understand why that would matter...it is being portrayed as something it wasn't. And if you are implying that Fetterman is a racist...well I would find that very humorous.

[rogue emissary]

79. How is it being portrayed as something it wasn't?

I wouldn't imply it. If I thought he was a racist .I'd call him a racist.

That you find it humorous, says more about you than someone calling Fetterman a racist for chasing an unarmed man.

Notice I never identified the man as black or brought race up with this incident.

[Demsrule86]

80. The race has been brought up in Connor Lambs goes for the jugular which you posted in.

However, it was not vigilantism...and those who think it is were already in Connor Lamb's camp anyway...Fetterman is up by more than 30 points.

[rogue emissary]

82. It was vigilantism. True Lamb support don't believe it's

Acceptable to chase and detained a man with no evidence of a crime.

[Demsrule86]

83. He called the cops because he found the guy suspicious and he heard gunfire...not vigilantism...

He was the Mayor at the time and won two more times and then knocked out a sitting lieutenant Governor to become Wolf's running mate in the reelection. Keep this up and it likely helps Fetterman...such an obvious false attack.

[rogue emissary]

84. He thought he was suspicious after he stopped him with his gun and truck.

You keep leaving out key facts from the incident.

Hearing a gun shot doesn't equal a random man running must have fired a gun.

If I heard a gun shot and saw someone running. I'd think the person running was running to safety.

How does pointing out that Fetterman criminally went after a man. Which Fetterman admitted to in an interview that he might have broken the law, help him?

[Demsrule86]

85. That is your opinion...but most disagree based on polls numbers.

Lamb just looks bad given the details...He should explain his votes for Trump bills instead...that might help him. Did he really need to give Trump money for the stupid wall?

[rogue emissary]

87. How does Lambs votes impact people's opinion of Fetterman

Chasing a man with a gun?

Lamb does need to explain his votes.

Now will Fetterman ever apologize for his actions?

[Demsrule86]

89. I personally don't think he needs to...and the Connor Lamb's support for Trump legislation

needs to be examined...will he apologize? I posted the voting history.

[rogue emissary]

90. Good question.

You don't have a problem with anyone with a gun chasing and detaining a person?

[Demsrule86]

91. The police were called as you know...and I am satisfied with the explanation.

[rogue emissary]

92. I wouldn't want to live in a place where random

Strangers can threaten you with a weapon cause they thought you were involved in a crime.

[BlueLucy]

158. And?

You sounds like a right winger justifying shootings of unarmed black men.

[gab13by13]

10. Thank you, thank you,

you made my day, gave me a belly laugh which lifted me up on a rainy day in Pa., no golfing today.
Sneaking in the reference to the Willie Horton ad is a nice touch. I'm still smiling.

So what say you about Lamb's record? Democrats do need to push his positives, can't just make it negatives about Fetterman and succeed in the general election, he will be up against a different opponent.

[rogue emissary]

37. Did you reply to the right post?

Cause I didn't bring up Willie Horton.

[Demsrule86]

41. Not on this thread anyway.

[rogue emissary]

47. Cite where I mentioned Willie Horton, in another thread?

[Demsrule86]

66. Horton was brought up in the Connor Lamb goes for the jugular...(PA-SEN-D) ...still floating around.

I have no idea whether you posted it or where it came from...it was in the OP thus I said it was not said in this one...

[Demsrule86]

17. I assume you are talking about the one incident where he heard a gun shot and talked to

a guy who was jogging...name of Christopher Miyares who is now serving time in prison for among other things kidnapping for ransom. Hey, Braddock had a high crime rate at the time and Fetterman heard a gunshot. My black neighbor came out with a gun recently when we all heard gunfire...he is a former army ranger with two adorable kids...is he a vigilante? I hope Lamb considers that the 'poor innocent victim' was not harmed by Fettermand and is currently serving prison time for some very serious charges. That dog won't hunt.

[rogue emissary]

32. Yes, he's a vigilante.

His current incarceration has nothing to do with Fetterman chasing him down.

[Demsrule86]

44. Doesn't it? It sure makes it less effective as an attack ad.

[BlueLucy]

159. The first thing Right Wingers do is look for mug shots...

Of black victims of police shootings. Just like you're doing here.

[uponit7771]

147. Please stop, black folk can tell an ally from an enemy. Please stop

[rogue emissary]

155. As an "black folk" I sure is hell can call a guy that chases a man with a gun none ally.

[uponit7771]

156. The person Fetterman chased is supporting him !! Please, we're not LIVs here

[rogue emissary]

157. LIVs?????

[Wingus Dingus]

7. Having grown up in western PA and still have family there, I can say

from distant observation that Fetterman seems like "one of us", if you know what I mean. Does not come off as wussy or elitist despite progressive policies (because of size, mannerisms, personality). Kind of how Bill Clinton and Joe Manchin were or are successful in their home states--it's hard to nail down an X factor, but it's there.

[gab13by13]

12. Fetterman is one of us, the real deal,

he doesn't have to play the part it's who he is. The city of Braddock was devastated with the loss of the steel mill and yet the good people of Braddock kept electing John as their mayor. Braddock is like 70% black and Lamb is running on Fetterman's one time encounter with a black jogger, not much to run a campaign on.

[YorkRd]

29. Braddock has 3000 people

Fetterman was cosplaying being an urban mayor

[Demsrule86]

33. That is pretty much the same post as was on my other OP...and again...he was an urban mayor.

I guess cosplaying is a cool word and all. You still remind me of another poster....it will come to me. Thanks for the reply.

[Demsrule86]

88. Yep, Fetterman is the real deal...and the attack by Lamb won't work IMHO.

[Demsrule86]

18. Exactly, I see Fetterman as a Senator and maybe a president someday.

[aeromanKC]

8. Fetterman is not beholden to them

[Demsrule86]

19. I agree.

[world wide wally]

9. Fetterman will be a winner

[Demsrule86]

34. I think he can win too...PA is tough like Ohio...but we have a good chance with Fetterman.

[tman]

15. The less 'establishment' the more 'blue collar' appeal - the better.

[Demsrule86]

21. That is what I think but some don't agree with that...they think blue collar means Trump voters

and that is not always true...and the idea we can do without these voters is ridiculous...we can't.

[dsp3000]

16. the PA Democratic establishment knows how to screw up winners. see Joe Sestak in 2016

[Demsrule86]

23. Katie McGinty...that was the last straw. Joe Sestak could have won.

He was completely screwed by party types who think they know it all.

[gab13by13]

50. Well, they are doing it again,

[Demsrule86]

72. They are trying OK but I believe they won't have their way this time...and Fetterman can

win a general...nothing is certain. But I think he has the best chance.

[Cosmocat]

78. Yep

I am still salty after that.

[Deminpenn]

105. Foisting McGinty on us was the worst

The more establishment Dems didn't like Sestak for the same reason they don't like Fetterman, Sestak marched to his own drummer.

If not for that idiocy, Toomey wouldn't be a sitting senator.

[Demsrule86]

108. That is so true...

[Deminpenn]

113. She ran the worst campaign ever

I was shocked when I learned she is actually quite smart and accomplished, but her campaign focused on her being "1 of 10 children of a waitress mom and cop dad". That was it! 100% bland milquetoast.

If she'd emphasized her education and experience, she might have be our senator instead of Toomey.

[Demsrule86]

118. She was not a bad person like you said. But she wasn't authentic and voters notice. Fetterman

is authentic and exciting.

[brooklynite]

116. Dems didn't like Sestak because he'd been an incompetent campaigner in his previous run...

...hiring family members for his campaign staff.

[Demsrule86]

117. And we lost. That is always the story. Well this time will be different I hope.

[brooklynite]

119. Was it always the story when Bob Casey won in 2006?

Hardly a working class progressive.

I don't object philosophically to Fetterman, but I'm not convinced that his appeal extends to the General Election voters who've tended towards moderate Democrats and Republicans for Senate races.

[Deminpenn]

122. Please stop

First, the Casey family were always for working men and women, economic progressives. The Caseys are unabashed Catholics, but they live by the entirety of Catholic social teachings. That means being pro-life doesn't stop at birth. They believe in a social safety net. They oppose the death penalty, too.

Second, Sen Casey is actually quite progressive and inclusive. He's not his dad.

Third, the Casey name has unique cache' in Pennsylvania. He was going to win no matter the office for which he ran. Look no further than the "Bob Casey" who won a row office in the state mainly because of his name although he was unrelated to Gov Casey.

[Demsrule86]

133. Seriously, Now you are messing with us. Bob Casey comes from a political family.

His father was involved in PA politics his entire life and was a popular governor.

"Bob Casey Sr.
Former Governor of Pennsylvania
Robert Patrick Casey Sr. was an American lawyer and politician from Pennsylvania who served as the Democratic 42nd Governor of Pennsylvania from 1987 to 1995. He served as a member of the Pennsylvania Senate for the 22nd district from 1963 to 1968 and as Auditor General of Pennsylvania from 1969 to 1977. Wikipedia"

Are you seriously claiming this is the same as the 2020 election? Also, this was in 2006.

[Deminpenn]

123. You mean like JFK did?

The state Dem establishment didn't want him because they thought a more centrist candidate was the ticket. Turned out that thinking was wrong.

[brooklynite]

125. JFK didn't hire his family as campaign managers and fundraisers.

DREXEL HILL, Pa. — There’s no ideological civil war underway here. No, this is all personal — just former Navy Adm. Joe Sestak making his last stand against Democratic Party leaders who’ve been trying to sink him for six years and counting.

On paper, Sestak is about everything Democrats could want in a Senate candidate: a charismatic, decorated veteran elected to the House from a swing district who nearly defeated Republican Pat Toomey in 2010, one of the toughest election years for Democrats in decades.

But the independent streak that attracts voters is precisely what worries national Democrats so much about Sestak: They believe, for the second time since 2010, that he could blow a winnable Senate race because of his tendency to reject the slightest hint of marching orders from party bosses. Sestak is the first to admit he likes doing things his way, and party leaders quickly tired of constantly being told, in so many words, to take a hike.

In response, the whole D.C. Democratic gang is all-in for Sestak’s main Democratic rival, Katie McGinty — from Barack Obama and Joe Biden to the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee and Sen. Bob Casey (D-Pa.). More than that, the national party is dropping more than $1 million to push McGinty past Sestak — a rare move by Democrats in a Senate primary that reflects their level of disdain for him.

https://www.politico.com/story/2016/04/sestak-pa-primary-221644

This is where that annoying "I know people" comment comes in. I supported Sestak in his first run, and didn't in his second after talking to Governor Rendell, Senator Van Hollen (DSCC) and others. The bottom line was: leadership tried to convince him to hire professional staff to run his campaign, but, as I was told: "You can't tell an Admiral what to do". Had nothing to do with "he was TOO progressive".

[Deminpenn]

140. The JFK Library disagrees with you about RFK

running his brother's campaign.

https://www.jfklibrary.org/learn/about-jfk/the-kennedy-family/robert-f-kennedy

Your post above is exactly what I posted, Dem establishment didn't like Sestak because he marched to his own drummer. They preferred a more pliable candidate who took their advice. That resulted in possibly the worst US senate campaign in Pennsylvania history for a quite winnable seat.

Perhaps you should consider the 1st Rule of Holes: when you're in one, stop digging.

[Demsrule86]

141. Good advice...there is nothing good about Katie McGinty's run...it was a winnable race.

[Demsrule86]

126. Biden's family was involved in the campaign...and I see nothing wrong with family anyway.

The fact is all the others that have come before who have been you know typical candidates have lost. I want to win. I believe Fetterman can win. He has done OK so far... a huge war chest and 30 points lead it seems. And yesterday the Senate election folks including Elizabeth Warren made sure that lying ad about Fetterman saying he was a Democratic Socialist was taken down...seems like Fetterman has friends in Washington.

[dsp3000]

128. They didnt like sestak because they crossed them and arlen specter.

Ultimately it seemed like there was lots of vengence in the PA Democratic establishment to screw him over at any cost, even putting up an ineffective McGinty in 16.

[Demsrule86]

137. That is why I will never trust them again...they basically sacrificed a Senate seat for spite.

With friends like this....you know the rest!

[SmallFry]

20. I'm sure I would want Lamb if I were an elected democrat.

Lamb gives people power. Fetterman gives ideas power. They are not the same and that's ok.

I would vote for Fetterman if I lived there.

[Demsrule86]

24. So would I...

[YorkRd]

22. Fetterman seems tailor made to lose to the GOP/ALEC candidate.

3 times Conor Lamb has proven he can beat Republicans in Republican leaning districts. Pennsylvania is a very conservative state hence the nickname “Pennsyltucky” . The suburbs around Pittsburgh are very red. Pennsylvania is also dominated by elderly voters who will oppose much of what Fetterman stands for.

[Demsrule86]

26. First of all Lamb only won once in a red district. There was redistricting and Connor ran in

in a much more favorable district twice...Secondly, Lamb has never won a statewide race. Also, Lamb is behind 30 points because PA loves Fetterman. Lamb is like all the other party types who lost.

[dsp3000]

31. He will claw back blue collar low information voters.

Gruff image, attractive wife and straight talker "trumps" any policy talk. oh and legalized weed. that's my opinion at least.

[Demsrule86]

36. I have to say, he needs to put his dog in the ads...the dog is super adorable.

[peggysue2]

52. Pennsyltucky is a standard tag for PA

This is something I know from researching Fetterman where he's quoted, calls that tag bullshit, an easy way to write-off a good portion of the state, automatically saying: We can't win there so there's no use trying.

Fetterman aims to try . . . everywhere and has been taking his message throughout the state having conversations with actual voters (including those in the most rural areas), rather than relying on sound bites and insulting tags.

That's not to disparage Conor Lamb because the only question of true import is: who can win the General?

Lamb is a perfectly good, traditional candidate, a middle-of-the-roader on a good day and far more liberal now than he was in his first year or two.

As I said in an earlier thread, Fetterman is an unapologetic liberal, period. That doesn't mean he's a gigantic, male version of AOC. He's not. In fact, hardcore progressives have criticized Fetterman on a number of his stances as being too moderate, too cautious. His support for fracking in the short-term is a big one.

However, the man does have a quality that appeals to people, gets them excited. That's something Lamb simply does not do. That excitement is reflected in the polls and the huge cash advantage Fetterman has at the moment.

The upcoming debates will be important to me and I'm speculating important to others. I want to see how he handles himself while under attack, how well he articulates his positions in an adversarial atmosphere. If he can pull that off (as I'm anticipating he will), then he'll have my vote in a heartbeat.

Regardless of how the primary turns out, I'll be voting Dem as will my family. Can't tell you how great it is to be voting in a contest where I feel there's a good chance for success. It's a whole different ball game after living in TN for over 20 years.

Happy camper here!

[Demsrule86]

68. What a great post...sort of the same way I feel...+1000

[peggysue2]

73. I believe we're on the same wavelength, Demsrule

and let's bang those

[Demsrule86]

74. Yes we can...fired up and ready to go.

[Cha]

86. Aloha, Peggysue! You moved to

PA.. Good on you and your family!

I support Conor Lamb but from way out here in Hawaii.. we all have our different perspectives. I found it interesting what you had to say though.

I just hope it all ends up with another Democratic Senator from PA!

💙💛

[peggysue2]

93. That's my hope, too, Cha. That we win this seat and keep the Senate

As I've said earlier if Conor Lamb wins the primary, he'll have my vote. Candidate preferences are what they are but we're all on the same side.

Thanks for the congrats on our move. It finally happened! Now all we need do is find a permanent residence. Right now, we're living in my mother-in-law's former home; she left the property to us when she died. It's better than a high-cost rental but it's so small we're surrounded by boxes (very little storage space and barely any closets). The rest of our stuff is in storage. We've made bids on several properties but been beaten by cash buyers eschewing any and all contingencies. I refuse to buy an over-priced property without an inspection. It's like buying a second-hand car--an outrageously expensive car--without a test drive. Won't do it.

So we wait and continue to search.

But at least we're in the area and I get to see my kids and grand baby.

Great to see your name pop-up!

[Cha]

95. Yes, at least! Baby Steps.. you're on

your way! I'm so happy for you.. my son was born in Philly in 1968 while we were on vacation.. I'll always have a place in my heart for PA!

Good to see you, too!

💙💛

[peggysue2]

98. Really? A son born in Philly.

On vacation, no less. You've been coast-to-coast, girlfriend!

I'm a native of NJ but my husband and I lived outside Philly for nearly 10 years. My first born, a son, was born in Philly as well, delivered at Thomas Jefferson hospital.

Back in the glory days. LOL

[Cha]

99. Oh how Cool.. 2 sons born in Philly..

Liberty Bell!

It was coast to coast.. we were vacationing from San Diego CA.

Our son was premature.. born in Lankenau Hospital in Overbrook.. 7 miles from Philly.. but I'm claiming Philly!

Oops.. I just realized I said he was born in 1968.. It was 1967.. my daughter was born in 1968 in San Diego.. whew!

Definitely the Glory Days!

💙💛

[PA Democrat]

62. NO. He ran ONCE in a Republican leaning district and won.

You made the same misstatement just 2 days ago and I responded directly to your post that you were wrong.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=16562266

Lamb ran in a red district ONE time. Congressional maps were redrawn in 2018.

Lamb ran in the special election to fill Tim Murphy's seat in the PA 18th in March 2018. The PA 18 was a republican leaning district.

District maps were redrawn after the PA Supreme Court ruled the former heavily gerrymandered maps unconstitutional.

In Nov 2018 Lamb ran in the newly redistricted Pa 17th which has been rated as leans Democratic by Cook Political report. Biden won the Pa 17th by a margin just slightly less than Lamb.

https://politicalwire.com/2018/07/24/new-pennsylvania-district-tilts-democratic/

Numerous other people in the same thread explained this.

And yet you continue to make the same false statement. It's not a good look.

[Demsrule86]

69. Why do some need to continue to post this as you have debunked it a number of times...I have too.

Others have also.

[Deminpenn]

107. This is not true, something that has repeatedly

been pointed out and backed up with facts and links.

[uponit7771]

148. FACT NOT IN DISPUTE: There are more democratic votes to be had than republicans. Why spend ...

... 2 dollars going after 1 middle to rep vote when he can spend 1 and get 2 democratic voters.

[Demsrule86]

149. That is absolutely correct...I look at the polls at various websites and Fetterman is ahead

by a great deal...and apparently the internal polls are worse.

[brooklynite]

25. What's the evidence of endearment?

Last edited Wed Apr 6, 2022, 09:21 PM - Edit history (1)

He’s won one statewide election on the back of a popular Governor, and won his Primary with only 1/3 of the Primary vote. I see a lot of people here saying how much they like his attitude and style, and then leaping to the assumption that other voters feel the same.

[Demsrule86]

28. He is 30 points ahead. I lived in PA during the early Braddock years...I adore Fetterman as did

all my neighbors...he is a good guy. I have family there and they all support Fetterman...even the one who calls himself an independent. Take it for what it is worth...Fetterman is well like in PA. I would remind you that Governor Wolf and Fetterman won the second term election by a landslide-a statewide election.

[brooklynite]

76. He's ahead in the Democratic Primary; says nothing about the General.

[Demsrule86]

150. There are polls showing that he leads in the General as well...if you can't raise money and

you can't rack up points in a primary, you won't win a general. And Lamb's isn't raising money very well either...relying mostly on pacs I imagine. Fetterman is way ahead and has a sizeable war chest.

[Deminpenn]

109. Do you not read the posts from actual residents

and voters in Pennsylania on these threads? Those might alleviate your apparent confusion.

[brooklynite]

112. I read the posts from people who post here...

...who in no way reflect the electorate at large. If Fetterman is so endeared, why do only 1/3 of Pennsylvania Democrats support him, with 37% undecided with less than two months left?

I'm not claiming that Lamb is more popular (although I still think he's a stronger candidate in the General Election); my challenge is that Fetterman is somehow a uniquely popular candidate among Democrats.

[Deminpenn]

114. Speaks poorly of you

Last edited Thu Apr 7, 2022, 08:41 AM - Edit history (1)

but believe what you want.

BTW, there is polling of a potential of general election match of Fetterman vs Oz and Fetterman vs McCormick because I've been called twice by the same outfit within the past 4-5 weeks, but the results haven't been published afaik.

[brooklynite]

115. My political experience comes from the streets of Philadelphia, rather than flighty social media....

The Philadelphia Democratic Party endorsed Lamb; the Pennsylvania Democratic Party didn't endorse anyone (2/3 vote required) but overwhelmingly supported Lamb over Fetterman; Lamb has more Union endorsements than Fetterman. I respect their political judgement over those of the political activist blogosphere.

[Deminpenn]

124. Do endorsements vote?

I don't think endorsements matter at all in high profile elections like this one especially when one or more candidates have high name recognition.

I doubt there are any studies that show they make a difference, but feel free to link any that have.

I find it funny that you think I'm some sort of "activist" for posting facts and information about how the people I grew up with and live among think and vote.

[Demsrule86]

127. I didn't care if Jesus came down and endorsed a candidate other than Biden, he was my guy

period, end of story. I have never believed endorsements matter.

[Demsrule86]

130. I would also add some heavy hitters endorsed Nina Turner but in the end Shontel Brown was

was more popular with Ohio Democratic voters and she won the primary. I don't think anyone cares about endorsements...in fact, it might make Fetterman more attractive as a candidate not to be endorsed...fits in with his style.

[brooklynite]

132. The endorsers of Nina Turner were other members the DS movement, not Party Leaders.

Party Leadership has to sell the candidate to the entire electorate in November.

[Demsrule86]

134. That is not true...Nina had plenty in Ohio who liked her...the party types. Shontel was always

an underdog.

"On Wednesday, Nina Turner's campaign announced a slew of new endorsements from from former elected Ohio officials in her run for Ohio's open seat in the 11th Congressional District.

Former Dayton mayor Rhine McLin, former Ohio Senate Minority Leader C.J. Prentiss, former Ohio Rep. Nick Celebreeze and former Akron City Councilmember Michael Williams all have endorsed Turner, a former state senator, in her candidacy for Congress.

McLin, mayor of Dayton from 2002-2010 said, "I endorse Nina Turner because I have witnessed her work; from her time as a LSC Intern, her work for Mayor Michael White, her tenure on Cleveland City Council, the Ohio Senate and her candidacy for Ohio Secretary of State, to her work today. Nina is battle tested and ready to be a voice for the people, who need action not just a promise."

RELATED: Labor union representing janitors, food services workers in Ohio endorses Nina Turner for Congress.


"The Plain Dealer endorses Nina Turner for Ohio's 11th congressional district seat"


"CLEVELAND — Two more Cleveland City Council members have announced they are backing Nina Turner’s bid to represent Ohio’s 11th Congressional District.

What You Need To Know
Two more Cleveland City Council members endorse Nina Turner in OH-11 special election

Turner is growing her list of local supporters to build on her national profile

The special election comes after Marcia Fudge became President Biden’s HUD secretary.

Turner is one of at least seven Democrats running to represent the majority-Black district

And there are more.
Ward 5 Councilwoman Phyllis Cleveland and Ward 11 Councilman Brian Mooney told Spectrum News Turner won their support in the crowded Democratic primary to succeed Marcia Fudge, who resigned from Congress earlier this year once she was confirmed to be President Biden’s secretary of housing and urban development.

“[Turner’s] fiery, but she’s also very compassionate,” Cleveland said in a phone interview Monday night. “She’s fierce about protecting the rights of the communities she represents.”

Turner, a former state senator and Cleveland City Council member who rose to national prominence as a surrogate for Sen. Bernie Sanders’ presidential campaigns, has been intertwining her Cleveland roots with the progressive vision that made her a national political figure.

[brooklynite]

136. "Former elected Ohio officials"

I'm talking about current PARTY Leaders, who's job is the mechanics of turning out voters.

[Demsrule86]

138. Read the post...there are both former and current...and none did Turner a bit of good.

[Demsrule86]

129. You just said if Fetterman is so endeared....etc ...and yet Lamb is 30 points down...

If Lamb is so electable why is he so behind Fetterman? Your argument makes no sense. You say Fetterman only having 1/3 of the vote means his support is weak and he can't win a general. But lamb who has way less vote somehow can win a general. I think you likely met Lamb at some point and just like him and are you not twisting the facts a bit (I don't mean on purpose, it is human nature) to make Lamb a contender. And I just don't think Lamb can win the primary. I have serious doubt should he win the primary that he would win a general. Although I will work for any candidate in the General and send money. Since I have moved to Ohio I can't vote in PA, and I am also working on Tim Ryan's campaign.

[brooklynite]

131. "Electable" involves voters who aren't Democrats.

[Demsrule86]

135. And you think such voters would prefer Connor Lamb? I think you are completely wrong. Connor

is same old- same old...they lose. Fetterman can reach out to non-Democratic voters. And you have to also win Democrats and in a midterm...they need to be enthusiastic. Well, not me of course...I vote every election. But most do.

[Doremus]

39. Honestly all I care about anymore are issues.

Where does your candidate stand on 1) healthcare, 2) school loan forgiveness, free/lower tuition, 3) higher taxes for billionaires?

[Demsrule86]

63. Fetterman is for single payer but would help improve the ACA, wants fair taxation...no idea

about student loans.

[uponit7771]

152. +1, ... right ?! I'd like to see dem vote history also. The rest doesn't interest me much

[budkin]

42. We need MORE blue collar progressives like him

It's the only way we'll take back the rural areas.

[Demsrule86]

70. We need the rural areas...even if we just cut down their margins...I think the powers that be

are wrong about how we win...we win by keeping the cities and cutting the GOP margins in rural areas. My sister is in a very red district and yet without the votes of Democrats in her district. Joe Biden would not have won Georgia. We need a 50 state strategy. And one of the things I like about Fetterman is he campaigns everywhere in PA.

[cornball 24]

48. John Fetterman has it all: brains, guts and heart. Love the guy and he's got my vote!

[Demsrule86]

59. That is how I feel Fetterman was so moved at a hearing to determine if a man could get out of

that he was too choked up to talk and the man sitting next to him said we all know that Fetterman supports this...

"Fetterman breaks down into tears when he talks about them. “These brothers have been in prison for 27 years, and one of them had children and a wife. And they grew up without their father and their husband for no reason,” he says. “I can’t turn my back and let these and other deserving people die in prison.”

“These brothers have been in prison for 27 years, and one of them had children and a wife. And they grew up without their father and their husband for no reason,” he says. “I can’t turn my back and let these and other deserving people die in prison.”


The Board of Pardons first voted on the Horton brothers’ clemency applications in late 2019. It failed 2-3, with Democratic Attorney General Shapiro most prominently casting a ballot against recommending them for a pardon. Fetterman wrote afterward that it was “truly one of the most dismaying days of my life.”

When their case came up again a year later, Fetterman publicly leaned on Shapiro. This was no small thing: Shapiro has a reputation for being cutthroat to get ahead. Fetterman was at the time toying with the idea of running for governor—a post Shapiro had for years been preparing to run for. He told a local reporter that his political future depended on what happened to inmates like the Horton brothers: “The trajectory of my career in public service will be determined by their freedom or lack thereof.”

The next time it was up for a vote, the board granted the Hortons mercy. And Shapiro spoke for Fetterman, who was choked up, when it was his turn to vote on Lee’s case: “I’m a yes, and I think the lieutenant governor is a yes as well.” (An aide for Shapiro says the attorney general initially “asked that the Board hold the Horton Brothers case under advisement in order to interview the brothers separately and review missing information from their files.”).

[montanacowboy]

49. The Democratic Party Needs More Fettermans

When I was growing up in Eastern Ohio/Western PA all the Democrats were Union. My Dad was a Union Member all his life and this is the kind of men they voted for. If the Dems would get their heads out of their asses and realize that this has to be the future of the Party and not these middle of the road milk toast types.

Go Fetterman and LOVE his Dog!

[Demsrule86]

57. You are right...we have worked in auto all our lives and Fetterman supports us and understands

how important gaining the votes of blue-collar Democrats is to our party...union folk. We need to manufacture stuff here...the pandemic clearly showed the need for us to make our own stuff...it is important to have a middle class and a security issue.

[gab13by13]

51. Lamb's 1st stint in Congress, 115th Congress, 2017-18.

Lamb voted in favor of Trump positions 68% of the time, including making tax breaks for the rich permanent.

115th Congress (2017-18)
Democratic representative for Pennsylvania’s 18th District
DATE MEASURE TRUMP POSITION LAMB VOTE AGREE WITH TRUMP? LIKELIHOOD OF AGREEMENT PLUS-MINUS
Dec. 20, 2018
Extension of government funding, including $5.7 billion for border wall (217-185)
Support No 97.6% -97.6
Dec. 20, 2018
Making changes to federal sentencing and prison laws (358-36)
Support Yes 87.9% +12.1
Dec. 12, 2018
The 2018 farm bill (conference committee report) (369-47)
Support Yes 84.5% +15.5
Sept. 28, 2018
Making permanent the individual tax reductions passed in 2017 (220-191)
Support Yes 96.9% +3.1
Sept. 27, 2018
Allowing new businesses to deduct more of their start-up expenses (260-156)
Support Yes 99.5% +0.5
Sept. 27, 2018
Making changes to savings accounts for retirement and education (240-177)
Support Yes 99.3% +0.7
July 25, 2018
Making changes to health savings accounts, including allowing them to be used for over-the-counter medications (277-142)
Support Yes 97.6% +2.4
July 25, 2018
Expanding eligibility for health savings accounts (242-176)
Support Yes 99.4% +0.6
July 24, 2018
Eliminating the medical device tax (283-132)
Support Yes 96.4% +3.6
July 19, 2018
Opposing a carbon tax (229-180)
Support Yes 98.1% +1.9
July 18, 2018
Expressing support for the Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency and denouncing calls for its abolishment (244-35)
Support Yes 100.0% 0.0
June 27, 2018
Republican “compromise” immigration bill (121-301)
Support No 40.1% -40.1
June 22, 2018
Broad legislation to address the opioid crisis (396-14)
Support Yes 95.4% +4.6
June 21, 2018
The 2018 farm bill (House revote) (213-211)
Support No 88.8% -88.8
June 20, 2018
Changing privacy rules with regard to substance-abuse treatment (357-57)
Support Yes 95.3% +4.7
June 20, 2018
Allowing Medicaid to pay for adults with opioid use disorder to receive treatment in mental health facilities (261-155)
Support Yes 88.1% +11.9
June 15, 2018
Allowing the prohibition of certain synthetic drugs (239-142)
Support Yes 93.3% +6.7
June 14, 2018
Targeting imports of opioids through the international mail system (353-52)
Support Yes 98.0% +2.0
June 7, 2018
Rescinding previously approved but unspent funding (210-206)
Support No 92.1% -92.1
May 22, 2018
Rolling back some bank regulations put in place by the Dodd-Frank Act (258-159)
Support No 96.0% -96.0
May 22, 2018
Allowing patients with terminal illnesses the right to try unapproved treatments (Senate version) (250-169)
Support No 97.2% -97.2
May 18, 2018
The 2018 farm bill (198-213)
Support No 82.0% -82.0
May 16, 2018
Expanding private care options for veterans (347-70)
Support Yes 98.8% +1.2
May 16, 2018
Making targeted attacks on law enforcement officers a federal crime (382-35)
Support Yes 95.6% +4.4
May 8, 2018
Repeal of guidance meant to protect borrowers from discriminatory markups on auto loans (234-175)
Support No 96.8% -96.8
Average 68.0% 92.6% -24.6
See more about Conor Lamb at ProPublica

[Demsrule86]

56. Thanks...I found many of his votes problematic...now he was in a red district and all but that gives

me pause. How would he vote as a Senator? Of course, if he were the candidate for PA I would hope for the best and vote for him. I honestly think Fetterman will be the candidate and hope Lamb and the various PACS endorsing him don't continue to attack Fetterman.

[FakeNoose]

53. Thank you for this post! John Fetterman needs more love from DU!

I'll tell you what I know about John Fetterman ... he's the real deal, a liberal-progressive Democrat. If you read his quotes in the newspaper, and didn't look at his photo, you'd probably think it was Bernie Sanders talking. Fetterman is not Bernie, he's a member of the Democratic Party. He's working hard to help Pennsylvanians and he wants to do more.

Demsrule86 - I love what you wrote in this post.

I get it, Conor Lamb is young and handsome. He's from a well-known Pittsburgh Democratic family. He has a lot of connections, but so does our Lt. Governor John Fetterman. I suggest you take a minute to look at Fetterman's policies as they are laid out on his website. You might find it surprising how progressive he really is.

(link) https://johnfetterman.com/issues/

Yes I know, he asks for donations, just like every other candidate. But you can get past that quickly and see what he stands for. He's running for U.S. Senator because he wants to make a difference in Washington. He takes NO-BS from Repukes! It's not about how he looks, it's about what he says and what he does.

[Demsrule86]

55. Thanks for the reply...and I will go on the website...people don't know how much

Fetterman has done for the innocence project in PA...and he cares deeply. I love the guy.

[Sympthsical]

65. The monied class is all pissed off

If rich donors are super cranky, well, something vaguely liberal somewhere must be happening.

The man has the credentials, the background, and the blue collar bona fides that count in Rust Belt states.

If the establishment doesn't even like this guy in this electoral circumstance, then it says to me this is about The Club. ("We ain't in it" - Carlin).

I always watch who fights hard for The Club. More importantly, I always watch who The Club is trying to take down. It is almost always a person to be noticed.

The Club really, really, really doesn't like this guy. Good.

[Demsrule86]

71. Yup, and the Club has gotten it wrong many times in PA...putting up candidates that simply were

not strong enough to win elections.

[betsuni]

101. I literally read that Politico article just before seeing this OP.

Wanted to know more about Fetterman.

He appears independent enough to have his own policies, not too closely tied to Justice Democrats/Our Revolution/Working Families Party/DSA and those types. Unlike their candidates (because for some reason they have a rule that only the working class can understand inequality, a way to depict Democrats as out-of-touch elites and why the party must be infiltrated and taken over), he doesn't pretend to be from a working class background. Your father's a partner in an insurance or architectural firm, you go to an elite college and get a good job after college, you aren't working class. Good for him. So far I haven't seen him attack Democrats in the usual cheap way (corrupt establishment neoliberal status quo, etc.) either. He does seem clever enough to adapt (some people call that being a weathervane or whatever, but it's usual in politics) and think for himself. I'll have to research more.

[Demsrule86]

103. I like him a great deal...he is pure PA and I believe he can get us the Senate seat. He has plans

and he is passionate about helping people. I think he could be president one day if he wins in the Senate. I have met him and he reminds me of Sherrod Brown. The part of that article where he was so choked up about getting two possibly innocent guys out of prison brought tears to my eyes.

[Deminpenn]

111. Thanks for the link

It was a good read and thorough.

I think the PA local and state pols don't like Fetterman because he doesn't smooze with them. I doubt he suffers fools well, either, something that isn't usually compatible with smoozing. He's focused on what doing he believes is the right thing to do. There's a real moral clarity to him and that comes through.

Also found Rendell's comments interesting. Rendell's still a pretty good observer of state politics so I put stock in what he says.

[Demsrule86]

144. Ed Rendell understands PA politics IMHO.

[Deep State Witch]

142. I Like Big John, But

I'm not sure that he'll be a good fit for the Senate. It's supposedly a lot more clubby and collegial than the House. I think that he would do better in the House, or as Governor of PA.

I think that Conor Lamb would be great, and then Big John could step into Conor's House seat.

[Demsrule86]

143. He would be a great fit like Sherrod Brown. I suggest you examine Connor Lambs votes in

In his first year...vote with Trump 68% of the time. Also, he never supported Nancy Pelosi as speaker and voted for Joe Kennedy...not a team player. I believe that Connor Lamb will join with Manchin and Sinema and may not be a reliable vote if elected and that is a big 'if'. He is a member of the problem solvers group you know. Connors's votes are a bit better now as he has been planning to run for the Senate IMHO. But ultimately the 'fit' won't matter because just like McGinty and all the rest I don't believe Lamb can win the General.

[Deminpenn]

145. Senate probably suits Fetterman best

He's friendly enough to get along with the other 99. But the Senate is 100 individuals, too. That will let Fetterman work with as few or as many of his colleagues as he wants plus he'll always be yes vote for important bills that move America forward.

[Demsrule86]

146. Indeed. Yes. Fetterman will get along just fine. Since when is their a test to see if a Senator

fits in?

[uponit7771]

151. Americans don't care if the senate gets along just be effective which now they're not

[Demsrule86]

153. +1000 It has been my experience that Americans don't hate government just the fact it doesn't

work...so we get more Democrats, we can change that. Fetterman would vote as a Democrat. That is part of his campaign and he has laid out what he supports on his website. Connor Lamb has made some questionable votes in my opinion.

[uponit7771]

154. +1, I don't like Lambs voting record ... too close to Manchin which I found out was the sole ...

... vote for Kavanagh which got him into the SC.

Thx Manchin