WTF is happening at the CDC?

[AntivaxHunters]

I am absolutely furious.
What the actual hell is happening at the CDC?
This is going to kill a LOT of people and allow Covid to keep going. How many people are going to suffer because of this? This will strain our already stressed healthcare system. It will allow for a lot more people to become "long haul Covid" victims

This isn't right.

The thread is like 30 tweets deep so the UNROLL is here https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1511940655194509312?refresh=1649349136 Make sure you hit "force refresh" at the bottom to see all the tweets.

Here's a few highlights.

Link to tweet

?s=20&t=vXtA1IDN4RTABCgCZKnR2Q

Link to tweet

?s=20&t=vXtA1IDN4RTABCgCZKnR2Q

Link to tweet

?s=20&t=vXtA1IDN4RTABCgCZKnR2Q

Link to tweet

?s=20&t=vXtA1IDN4RTABCgCZKnR2Q

[JohnSJ]

1. At this point in time my view is anyone who can get vaccinated and won't, risk hospitalization and

death.

The risks are well known.

I mask up in public, and only get together with people who have been vaccinated. Vaccination will prevent serious illness in most people, and those who get vaccinated, obviously care for their own health and others.

[AntivaxHunters]

4. This isn't a good decision

It's not about people being unvaccinated.

It's about allowing them on airplanes and lifting the restrictions to begin with. The spread will be like wildfire considering how highly infectious the sub variant of Omicron is. No protections in close quarters? We all know what that means. And don't forget, "long haul Covid" is a thing. It's not only about death but also about a disease which can leave you disabled for the rest of your life.

Link to tweet

?s=20&t=tVRCpTfe2Fkm59SuVhlNLw

[JohnSJ]

9. I am not flying now, and when I do I will mask up, regardless of the status

[lagomorph777]

33. I will never fly again.

This is just latest outrage the flying public is subjected to.

[gldstwmn]

145. I might be with you on that one. The only way I would fly now is private.

[Johnny2X2X]

34. Airplanes are actually one of the safest places to be

The air is changed over and filtered quickly.

And the vaccinated are protected from most severe cases of Covid including long haul. Let the unvaccinated die, get vaccinated and boosted and you're protected.

[JohnSJ]

36. I know that is the conventional wisdom, but I have seen people getting sick from fellow passengers

who were sick on the airplane, coughing and sneezing all over the place

[Johnny2X2X]

38. How have you seen that?

What does transmission look like?

The science on it says planes are safe. Transmission on airplanes is very low. You're safer from Covid on the plane than you are in the terminal.

[JohnSJ]

40. Even before COVID people got sick from other passengers who were sick on airplanes

When you are in any enclosed space with others, even with wonderful air filters, people still catch germs from others in those situations

[Johnny2X2X]

41. And what does that look like?

Planes air filtration systems have always made transmissions of viruses very rare. You're safer on a plane during the flu season than at a restaurant or sporting event.

[JohnSJ]

45. At this time I won't be going to either

[Johnny2X2X]

49. Why?

Are you an anti vaxxer?

If you're vaxxed and boosted, there is absolutely no reason to not go about your life as normal. The risk from Covid for fully boosted people is less than the risk from the flu during a mild flu season. Do you refrain from flying all flu season every year? Unless you have an immune disease, or care for someone with one, Covid is not a factor for the boosted right now in the US.

[JohnSJ]

51. I am fully vacinated and boosted, but I will do what I want, and you can do what you want, doctor

[Johnny2X2X]

54. So the rest of your life then?

Are you going to avoid crowds the rest of your life? Avoid flying ever again?

Not trying to pick on you, everyone has their own risk tolerances with Covid and a million dead Americans is certainly reason for worry. But we here at DU said follow the science all along, and now the science is saying if you are vaxxed and boosted you are not at risk, but people are having a hard time accepting that now.

And the CDC is following the science in making this decision too.

[JohnSJ]

61. I am not asking for your advice. End of discussion between us

[bluestarone]

80. Just gotta shout out at you

I'm in YOUR corner 100%!! Fully agree with your thinking here!

[LuckyCharms]

89. Wait a minute...

"science is saying if you are vaxxed and boosted you are not at risk".

That's not what science is saying at all. Science is saying that if you are vaxxed and boosted, you most likely will not have the need to be hospitalized and you most likely will not die.

You also state that everyone has their own risk tolerance, but you go on to ignore that fact when you are addressing the person you are having this discussion with.

If a person's risk tolerance is telling them that they will never fly again, or go in crowds again, what causes you to ask them why? Are you living their life vicariously? Is the person you are addressing harming you in some way because they choose not to fly?

Do you know their risk tolerance? Are you inside their head right now? Do you know how Covid has affected him or her personally, and how it has affected their family?

Why are you telling people what to do when you know nothing about their situation?

[uppityperson]

129. "the science is saying if you are vaxxed and boosted you are not at risk" Wong

[Tink41]

137. The Twitter Feed in this post

Is that of an epidemiologist. Science. He disagrees and is ringing alarm bells on this! I have been triple vaxxed, still got it in January. Have Co-workers vaxxed and now have Long Covid after recovering from Omnicron. While I am not debating plane vs terminal safety, to say the CDC is following the science is debatable right now. I'm believing the guy who first rang alarm bells in Jan 2020 when no one was listening.

[LuckyCharms]

90. I usually don't get pissed off online...

but you're being fucking rude.

Stop it.

Fucking go somewhere else and reel your neck in before you start accusing people of being anti vax.

[JohnSJ]

93. Thanks LuckyCharms. You said something that needed to be said.

I am not anti-vax, and have been vaccinated and boosted.

However, I am not going to go out of my way to associate with people who are not vaccinated, or actually test positive for Covid, just to see how well the vaccine works.

I have a grandkid who is too young to be vaccinated, and also deal with some who have conditions that put them at higher risk, even though they have been vaccinated.

You stated it so eloquently, in your previous post. Everyone has their own risk tolerance.

Putting value judgements toward people who feel it necessary to take precautions, usually isn't very wise.

I remember a conversation where Rob Reiner called Bill Maher out for "mask shaming", where Maher was being critical of people who wear masks.

[LuckyCharms]

111. .

You're welcome, JohnSJ

For what it is worth, I'm never flying again either if I can at all help it, and I avoid crowds as well.

The fact that I do not plan of flying has to do with both Covid, and the recent upsurge of bad behavior on airplanes.

I'm not sure what exactly causes people to try to get inside the heads of others, and think they can make health decisions for them. It blows my mind.

[JohnSJ]

114. +++

[lagomorph777]

146. I have gotten sick almost every time I fly.

Last time I flew was pre-COVID.

Add in dangerous passengers, dangerous cabin crew, stress and hassle and rip-off factors, and it's just not worth it for me.

[gldstwmn]

147. What about the airport itself? Also I have seen nothing to suggest that long Covid is mitigated

by the vaccine. If you have that info please share.

[gldstwmn]

144. He also posted yesterday about a new South African variant that he is keeping an eye on.

Link to tweet

?s=20&t=95DNR9CI4hru6qVvJXXFkw

[Ms. Toad]

78. The short term risks are well known -

The long-term risks are almost completely unknown. We have 2 years worth of data about this disease - we are barely scratching the surface of what we know about long term consequences.

Already, we know that even for very mild cases the risk of heart complications is elevated for people who have had COVID, as is the risk for brain deficiencies (shrinkage, "fog," and loss of executive functioning)

As many systems as this disease impacts, there are far likely to be more long-term consequences - rather than fewer.

Public policy still should be focused on limiting cases to mitigate the potential for long term public health consequences, not merely on keeping people out of hospitals and morgues short term.

[dsp3000]

92. Yet again America does not give a F about kids

Kids getting shot up at school - oops nothing we can do about it! 2nd amemdment, deal with it!

Kids under 5 can't get vaccinated yet? - oops no vaccines out, we need our economy open, deal with it!

as a dad of 3 year old twins i've been on edge this entire fucking time and extremely cautious. really scary time now as i'm still wearing a mask into the office and most others aren't. just a matter of time before I get it. hopefully the kids won't have it too bad.

[SmallFry]

2. They are not policies of significance.

Policies like these need to work in concert with other policies that we do not and will not have in place.

We are doing what many of us said would happen after our joke of a reaction to Covid. We are rapidly heading to treat it as no different than the flu.

[AntivaxHunters]

6. It's not the flu

It's a deadly airborne disease which has killed more than 1 million people alone in this country & has the ability & is leaving millions of people permanently disabled due to long haul Covid.

"Let it rip!" is the ideology of people like DeSantis and Trump.

[Calculating]

8. There's no way to stop it

Even China has failed.

[AntivaxHunters]

13. China despite it's enormous population

has a tiny percent of Covid deaths compared to the United States.
And the reason why is because they instituted a hard lockdown. We on the other hand have people showing up at school boards absolutely losing their ever loving minds because people can't see their kids faces from having to wear a mask.
Cases are surging in some areas of China right now & that speaks to how highly infection the BA2 variant actually is.
And remember, vaccines in China are mandatory.

[Zeitghost]

52. Sure, if you believe the CCP...

n/t

[Crunchy Frog]

58. So you think they would lie and tell the world they're having a Covid surge?

I mean I know they lie, but I can't see them lying in that particular way.

Edit: I mean about the current Covid surge, not the number of Covid deaths.

[Mariana]

60. I don't think they've been honest about their death toll. nt.

[Zeitghost]

63. No

I think they cover up death counts to make them look like they are handling things better than western countries.

[uponit7771]

98. China is the WORST example and has made the wrong decision on their NPI vs vaxing.

Going all in on NPI and leaving their population open to extremely contagious versions of a virus long term is beyond dumb and the worlds economies will pay for it.

[SmallFry]

11. Let it rip is current American policy.

"It's not the flu"

Point not in contention.

"It's a deadly airborne disease which has killed more than 1 million people alone in this country & has the ability & is leaving millions of people permanently disabled due to long haul Covid."

True. Again a point with limited significance with respect to how we have and are treating it as a society.

[AntivaxHunters]

14. And "Let it rip" is Eugenics

Nothing I support & never will.

[SmallFry]

16. You clearly don't know what eugenics means.

A whole section in Applied Ethics 101 covers what you just did.

[AntivaxHunters]

18. I clearly do

Your argument that it's not eugenics is one we hear a lot of from the antivax crowd. Hmmm interesting.


MSNBC - How some of America's Covid policies amount to eugenics

[SmallFry]

21. Correct.

Ending our extremely limited policies is not tantamount to eugenics.

Things make a bit more sense considering the emoticon. Thanks for clarifying.

[Mariana]

28. That's an opinion piece at your link, and it is clearly identified as such. nt.

[Mariana]

31. Here is the definition of "eugenics":

the practice or advocacy of controlled selective breeding of human populations (as by sterilization) to improve the population's genetic composition

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/eugenics

[Johnny2X2X]

39. If you're vaccinated against Covid, the flu is actually more likely to put you in the hospital than

Fully boosted people have a very very low risk of hospitalization, death, or long Covid.

Let the unvaccinated idiots die, they made their choice and they are virtually the only ones dying, being hospitalized, or getting Long Covid now.

A boosted person is 97 times less likely to die from Covid than an unvaccinated idiot. For people fully vaccinated and boosted, we're talking a couple deaths a day in the US right now. Way less than die in an average day during the mildest flu seasons. Another couple dozen people a day right now are dying from Covid after 1 or 2 shots of the vaccine, still less than die from the flu in a day in a mild flu season. Hundreds of unvaccinated morons are still dying daily from Covid, this is their problem now, not ours.

[uponit7771]

101. +1, I don't like it when people leave the facts you outlined out of post regarding CV19. Its like

... purposeful fear mongering or people don't understand the benefits of the vax

[Johnny2X2X]

110. It is both to an extent

But I also think it needs to be pointed out that it's largely been the Liberals who've been right on Covid for the last 2+ years. And Liberals exercising caution and getting vaccinated is the reason the country is now in a much better place regarding Covid.

I just think people are traumatized by Covid and a portion of the US's response (or lack of) to it. So people are having a hard time letting go of the fear and acknowledging the current conditions. And it's just a fact right now that if you're fully vaxxed and boosted, Covid isn't something you should be worried about much for yourself right now. This could all change in 6 months, but right now people should just go about their lives if they're boosted.

And I think even here, on DU, there is a lack of facts in regards to how well the vaccines work. I read here all the time, "the vaccines don't prevent you from getting Covid..." That's not actually true, even with Omicron, the vaccines make it 4 or 5 times less likely you'll catch Covid. Even here people misinterpreted headlines that said, "Vaccines don't stop transmission of Covid." That doesn't mean what people think, what it means is you can still give Covid to others regardless of vaccination status if you have Covid. It doesn't mean that the vaccines offer no protection from you getting Covid.

And with Long Covid too, people seem to miss something too. They read the vaccines make Covid patients have a 60% less chance of getting Long Covid and that doesn't sound like that big a reduction, which is true, but that doesn't take into account that the vaccinated are 4.9 times less likely to get Covid in the first place (Even Omicron). When you put those together and do that math it comes out to 93% of people getting Long Covid are unvaccinated idiots.

And with deaths, it's even more dramatic, boosted people aren't dying from Covid right now in numbers that should be concerning, its a hand full of people who did what they were supposed to do with getting vaccinated dying, something we wouldn't blink at if it were any other cause.

Why do I care? Well, we are Democrats, the party of science literacy, seeing so many democrats now ignoring the science and spreading fear is harmful.

[Dorian Gray]

121. yep

Get vaccinated and boosted.

[uponit7771]

100. For those who are vaxed and boosted there is no "rip"

[BannonsLiver]

27. Ding is a total nut job.

Anyone who peddles merch while simultaneously lighting their hair on fire every morning on Twitter is not credible. I’m embarrassed for (and often amused at) his loyal devotees on this platform.

[beaglelover]

35. Agree 100%. IMO, it's time to get rid of mask mandates on airplanes and all forms

of public transportation.

[Elessar Zappa]

72. Agree.

He’s not credible.

[róisín_dubh]

95. Yeah I cannot handle his hair on fire insanity.

I've flown numerous times since the pandemic began for personal and professional reasons, which at the beginning of all this were unavoidable.
No COVID from flights. Where did I get it from?
My best friend.
And my students.

[Calculating]

3. The people are basically over COVID at this point

If you're vaccinated or have prior exposure it poses very little risk. COVID is endemic now and never going away. If you're worried get a yearly booster and live life. I had omicron two months ago and it was like a minor head cold. I'll get a yearly COVID booster like I do for the flu, and that's it.

[AntivaxHunters]

7. This is incorrect

Covid poses a high risk.
You're discounting the impact of Long Haul Covid.
Most people go directly to death which is very understandable of course but people who are immunocompromised are often left out of that equation and so are those who will develop long haul Covid which leaves them with a lifetime of symptoms.

It makes no sense for the CDC to do this given the Biden Administration just secured the funding in the fight against for Long Haul Covid. This will literally create a ton more new cases.

Link to tweet

?s=20&t=tVRCpTfe2Fkm59SuVhlNLw

[LuckyCharms]

79. My brother got over it too...by dying.

I'm not sure what being "over" Covid means.

But as I see it, it probably means that the citizenry of the United States has too many people who do not have the sense or fortitude to do what it takes to even make an honest attempt at eradicating the disease.

There are several people in this forum who have had loved ones killed by this disease.

I generally think that it's not a good idea to direct flippant statements like people are "over" Covid to this type of audience. But that's me.

My brother died before vaccines were available, but I know some people that got pretty damn sick from Omicron, and one that needed hospitalization. They were all vaxed.

And then, you have the long term effects that we don't even know about yet.

Covid is a new disease with only about 2 years of data available to study.

Anyway, I'm glad that your case was mild.

[AntivaxHunters]

84. So did my mom....

[LuckyCharms]

88. Oh no...

I'm so very sorry.

[JohnSJ]

94. That's awful. So sorry for your loss

[uponit7771]

103. Sorry for your loss, "..before vaccines were available,..." is mostly why I'm done. The vax gives ..

... people who take them similar chances of dying of the flu now.

I think post like the OP leaves that out of their narrative

[uponit7771]

102. +1, the fear mongering is annoying at this point.

[LuckyCharms]

120. It's

terrible to be annoyed.

[jcgoldie]

5. Does this mean they will drop the testing requirement for international flights?

Is that included in this?

[AntivaxHunters]

10. I don't think that's possible

Maybe inbound? But outbound? I'd think it would be dependent on country of final destination.

[jcgoldie]

12. inbound is what I meant

Most countries you can fly outbound without a test its when you come back to the US that you need the antigen test within 24 hrs whether you are vaxxed or not has been that way since last december.

[AntivaxHunters]

15. Ya I haven't seen anything on that

and will ask. It's a great question!

[Ace Rothstein]

73. They should.

That requirement has done nothing to stop bringing covid into the country. It was a real nuisance on our recent trip to the UK.

[Baitball Blogger]

17. This is happening under the Biden Administration, so I hope the White House moves

quickly to do something and help the CDC find credibility again.

[AntivaxHunters]

20. I do too. This is bad......

and I wonder if there's still Trumpers at the CDC. I thought they were gone but this is straight out the MAGA "Public Health My Ass" Playbook.

[Celerity]

19. Meh. Eric Feigl-Ding is the ultimate hyper doom fearmonger.

Cannot believe people still stan on him.

[AntivaxHunters]

23. Would you like another source?

I can't believe you're dismissive of of over 1 million dead. Just wow.

Link to tweet

?s=20&t=tVRCpTfe2Fkm59SuVhlNLw

Link to tweet

?s=20&t=tVRCpTfe2Fkm59SuVhlNLw

[Celerity]

26. how dare you say

I can't believe you're dismissive of of over 1 million dead. Just wow.

outrageous personal attack

all because I choose to not follow a person who has nonstop breathlessly doom posted for over 2 years

[JohnSJ]

96. Yes, that was over the top.

[2naSalit]

42. That'squite an assumption there, sport.

[róisín_dubh]

97. Get a grip

Celerity has done no such thing.

[uponit7771]

104. "..but so many don't..." also applies to the flu. Those who leave out objective facts usually go to

... these anecdotal statements about CV19

[inthewind21]

109. Well

When you use twitter as your main source. Just sayin.

[markie]

22. at this point

it is transitioning from a pandemic to an endemic....

https://www.bu.edu/articles/2022/difference-between-pandemic-and-endemic/

the extremely unfortunate situation is that we could have potentially eliminated it becoming an endemic if we had good, intelligent leaders, both nationwide and worldwide, at the onset

[AntivaxHunters]

24. Yup, very sad

And I can't help but think about all the healthcare workers who are fighting so damn hard against Covid only to have this sort of thing happen....it's simply maddening

[BlackSkimmer]

25. I lost all confidence in the CDC quite some time ago.

Anything they say is suspect to me.

I pretty much assume they make the wrong decisions most of the time.

[FakeNoose]

29. I knew this already 4 months ago (maybe longer)

AND it's the reason why I'll never get on an airplane again.

I personally know someone (related to my in-laws) who flew to NYC to celebrate the Christmas holidays. OK fine, no problem there. While he was in NY he came down with a nasty cough/cold and subsequently tested positive for Covid on a home testing kit. He was still infectious when he flew back home to the Midwest, and I was told he wore a mask the entire time on the plane.

The airline never asked him if he were sick or exposed to Covid. There's no way to know if he infected the other people on the plane, and they weren't told. The other passengers may or may not have been wearing masks. For all we know they were all exposing each other because that airline made no attempt to isolate or deny boarding the sick ones.

No thanks. I'll stay home if I can't drive myself to wherever I need to go.

[MineralMan]

30. At this point, I recommend that everyone take control of

their own exposure to the COVID risk. Stay up to date on boosters, and mask up when in public places. Avoid traveling by air and keep following sensible avoidance protocols.

Since there is a large pool of unvaccinated people out there, COVID is going to be endemic from now on, unless it mutates itself out of being able to infect people. Poor management and leadership in 2019 and 2020 has led to this pool of the unvaccinated. There is no way to now change that.

So, protect yourselves. That's my suggestion.

[2naSalit]

43. +1

[BlackSkimmer]

50. Yep, this.

I’d no more take advice from the CDC than I would from my tfg supporting neighbor.

[Owl]

76. +2

[uponit7771]

105. Why avoid traveling by air if I'm vaxed and boosted? tia

[MineralMan]

108. As we have seen again and again, people who are vaxed and boosted

can still get COVID-19. In most cases, they do not get terribly ill, and recover quickly. However, that is not always the case. The elderly (of which I am one), the immunocompromised, people with serious illnesses, and others can still die from COVID-19. So, I won't be taking any flights where masks are not required. I can wear a mask, but that is not perfect protection. What I can't do on a plane is avoid others who appear to have symptoms. Everywhere else, I can and do avoid such persons. That's impossible on a plane, though.

So, there's my answer. I'm not suggesting that you not avoid traveling. That's your choice. I don't care.

[uponit7771]

159. "However, that is not always the case" this is the same for the Flu and colds also. Why is ...

.. CV19 being extrapolated from the rest of the chances to get something from which one can't recover for the vaxed and boosted?

thx in advance

[MineralMan]

161. A million deaths so far is why. The virus also quickly

Generates new variants. That's another reason. A relatively high mortality rate, too.

That's why I'm continuing to take precautions, even if others don't.

[uponit7771]

166. For the vaxed there is no high mortality rate, we fall around cold and flu outcomes. I wasn't ...

... convinced of safety and efficacy of vax at first but now the data is out I can't live like it doesn't work.

[LuckyCharms]

172. Excuse me, but you seem to be not understanding something.

Last edited Sat Apr 9, 2022, 02:39 PM - Edit history (3)

You have responded to several of my posts on this subject, after I have taken literally an hour typing up each post, explaining my position, with details concerning my position, and about 3 times now, you have responded to me with flippant, 2 or 3 sentence answers that have nothing to do with the post that I typed up.

Now here, you are responding to another poster in the same manner, who has clearly and concisely explained his position on the matter, and you are doing the same thing.

My question to you is this. Why are you doing this? Do you think that you need to essentially badger people who do not agree with you on this?

What's the deal?

There are people who do not take the same position that you do. There are people who feel differently than you do, for very valid reasons. So what?

Try reading what people are actually saying, instead of just responding to disagree.

Better yet, don't respond.

You're not going to change any minds, just like I am not going to change your mind.

Read the last long post that I posted to you. I took the time to respond to you with statistics and reasoning, in an attempt to help you understand my position, but not to belittle or disregard your own opinion. I was polite, provided statistics, wished you a good day, and you didn't respond to it because you probably had no clue how to respond to it with valid arguments. Here is that post:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=16576197

So now, you have moved on to another DUer, who from what I can tell, is not willing to suffer this shit either.

There is a word for people who do things like you are doing here, and I'm not going to call you that word, but you are not making yourself appear to be reasonable because people are trying to explain something about their position, you are ignoring their responses essentially, not addressing or appreciating their opinions, and responding to them in such a way that it appears that you are only trying to initiate an argument.

[uponit7771]

173. I read that post* and have some beefs with what you stated to be factual and didn't wan to argue ...

... the point cause I believe, based on the facts, your mind is made up.

Conflating vaxed and unvaxed outcomes is not valid for instance. That's what I see TBH; too many people ...... going about what they feel vs the facts at hand.

FACT NOT IN DISPUTE: Outside of edge cases the vaccine works and (overwhelmingly) people who have done every part of it can, for the most part, move on.

I have changed minds, outside of DU maybe inside of DU ... just stating the facts ... cause they do matter.

Also

I don't keep up with every person on DU I respond to, I don't think that's reasonable.

I do try to make it a principle to be factual and honest and admit when I screw up and people here are pretty cool about it.

All that so I don't piss masses of folk off cause I get something out of DU interactions.

* I read most of it ..

[lagomorph777]

32. They just announced they are reforming CDC. Is this what they call "reform"?

[2naSalit]

44. Announcement...

And actual change have different dates of completion. If it was just announced, they are just getting started. Ever run a federal agency? It's a major endeavor and won't be completed in a few days or weeks.

[lagomorph777]

46. They should have at least imposed a freeze on crazy new pronouncements.

[2naSalit]

55. They can't leave things stand...

When the circumstances change so quickly and often. It will ease some of the controversy about it. Letting people decide at this point is the best anyone can do or endure the risk of the populous loosing their shit like they did back at the beginning of this. We have proven that we can't have nice things because too many of us are easily lured into conspiracies and acting against the best interests of everyone just to feel they've put someone else "in their place".

So it's time for those who've insisted on individual choice in how to behave during a deadly pandemic to live with their choices, we have to too but more of them will die sooner than those of us who have been rational and responsible all this time. Just a little longer and we may outnumber them enough to make the changes we need.

[lagomorph777]

57. Well, there's that approach too. (Self-genocide).

It does mean that decent people will have to avoid aircraft for a long time.

But in my case, that's no sacrifice. I've grown to hate air travel.

[2naSalit]

62. My thinking is...

Its year three of a pandemic. Historically, pandemics, vaccine or not, tend to last 3-5 years. The 1918 pandemic lasted that long without a vaccine and people did the same stupid shit they did this time. I think it doesn't matter if there is a vaccine, it's that people can't seem to act in unison enough to end the virus transfer. That's it. If people would have all isolated as directed, the probability of ending it sooner is immense.

I was hoping it would have slowed the whole pace of how things are done. Not so fortunate. I wonder if our species will make it to 2030 after watching the past five years.

ETA: Typo fix... Historically, pandemics, vaccine or not, tend to last 3-5 years.

[Zeitghost]

64. Many (most?) people can't be expected to isolate for very long

From those they live with and work with. Sure, some can WFH, but many cant. The patterns I have seen personally and which seem to be backed up by data is people spreading the virus in the work place and then taking it home to their families. Extreme, forced isolation would have only drug things out longer. It was a viable solution to keeping the healthcare system functional in the short term during extreme spikes, especially prior to vaccines, but was never a long term solution towards eradication, which is and always was, impossible.

[2naSalit]

68. It wasn't just isolation.

There were a host of protocols, washing hands wearing masks, etc. But would people do that effectively? No. Still have temper-tantrum throwing idiots to this day, over two years in.

People want to do anything but the right thing. Ask someone to do something that kind of unpopular but obviously the right thing to do and most will hesitate while they try to think of a way to get out of doing it. USA, USA!

[gldstwmn]

148. We just had an outbreak of Hepatitis A here from the local grocery store.

You can't even get some people to wash their hands after going to the bathroom.

[2naSalit]

154. See what I mean?

That is exactly where the great failing of human-ness is.

[lagomorph777]

67. I remember reading dire predictions of Malthusian meltdowns when I was a kid...

overpopulation, global warming, out of control pollution...

It would lead to wars, social breakdowns, famines, refugees... It all sounded so scary.

Now it's all real.

[2naSalit]

69. Yes, I remember that too.

And yes, we're there.

[SoonerPride]

37. At what point can society return to some semblance of normal.

Covid zero?

Please explain.

[Johnny2X2X]

47. I t already has returned to normal

I mean, about the last thing left is masks on airplanes still being a thing. Schools are open, bars and restaurants are open. Sporting events are open.

And all of this happened because smart and considerate Americans got vaccinated. The unvaccinated morons are still getting very sick from Coivd, hundreds a day are dying from Covid, it's their problem now because boosted people are protected from all of that.

[SoonerPride]

48. I agree 100%

I am just curious as the OP's answer.

Apparently they think "never."

[dalton99a]

53. In a month or so, nobody will care about Covid anymore

Masks will be optional on airplanes

Mandates are no longer tenable

[SoonerPride]

56. I agree.

But for me, being vaxxed and now 2x boosted, I returned to pre-pandemic normal in January.

I have only worn a mask when required by the business.

I have zero qualms about it either.

[Johnny2X2X]

59. Same here

I knew there would be some that want to follow the science when it said to be more careful, but then would freak out when the science says to go back to normal. It just seems like some people want fear all the time. If you're vaxed and boosted, Covid is no longer an issue to worry about unless some new variant pops up that the vaccine and previous infection offers no protection against.

The only ones who should be afraid of Covid right now are the unvaccinated, but they're too stupid to protect themselves at all anyways. Let them die.

[AntivaxHunters]

85. Want to bet on that?

Mandates are very tenable and so is public health.
You're going to see a surge here very soon.

[Calculating]

65. It's almost like some people don't want normal back

COVID zero will never happen. It's literally like another of the endemic cold viruses now. It's everywhere in the world.

[SoonerPride]

66. Exactly. It is what it is at this point.

Get vaxxed.
Get boosted (twice for me).
Wear a mask or don't as you wish.

.........and get back to going out, seeing friends, restaurants, movies, concerts etc.

I cannot and will not live in fear any longer.

The vaccines work to keep us alive.

That's more than good enough for me.

[AntivaxHunters]

86. It is everywhere

but countries don't have the problem we do.
Ignoring Covid doesn't make it go away & neither does reducing protective measures.

[Beautiful Disaster]

116. Other countries are better vaccinated.

That's why it's not as much an issue. But we've tried vaccine mandates only to have the Supreme Court rule against them, so there really isn't any more that can be reasonably done.

It's not fair to ask those who are vaccinated to put their whole life on hold because 30% of the country refuses to vaccinate.

[uponit7771]

107. +1,

[lagomorph777]

113. I agree. Some people are STILL refusing to mask.

We'll never beat this thing as long as that attitude persists.

[Ace Rothstein]

75. Yeah, I feel like a lot of people here still think it will go away.

There is never going to be a perfect time to end widespread mititgations but the steps need to be taken at some point.

[AntivaxHunters]

83. I'm more concerned about people dying

and we'll likely never return to the normal we once knew.

[Ace Rothstein]

87. Most of the country is back to February 2020 living.

The only difference is you have to wear a mask at medical facilities, on public transportation and in airports. The latter two will likely be dropped sometime in the very near future. There isn't anything I could do pre-pandemic that I can't do right now.

[SoonerPride]

112. That is simply an impossible ask.

The tolerance for continued draconian measures is unnecessary with the advent of vaccines.

Your personal risk tolerance may be such that you will never go out in public again.

Most people will not accept that outcome.

[AntivaxHunters]

123. "Draconian measures"?

Is this actually a Liberal forum or have I wandered onto somewhere Republicans hang out?

Calling mask mandates "draconian" is ridiculous when we've known for over a century that masks literally save lives.
The lack of compassion, empathy, & compassion is stunning. Your inconvenience doesn't trump the lives of people. many of us, including I imagine some on here, have lost immediate family, loved ones, close friends to Covid, and that includes me with losing my mom who was killed by an anti-masker before the vaccines were available. But it's "draconian".

What a absolutely ridiculously selfish comment.

[beaglelover]

127. We're in an entirely different place now than we were back before vaccines and other effective

treatments for COVID were available.

There's no need for mask mandates any longer. COVID is now entering the endemic phase and we'll learn to live with it as we do the flu.

You are free to continue to 'mask up' whenever you leave your home. But you are not free to force those of us who are fully vaccinated and boosted to wear a mask when it is no longer necessary for us to do so.

[SoonerPride]

132. +1

[canetoad]

177. Well lookee here

A whole 132 posts and the demand to know:

"Is this actually a Liberal forum or have I wandered onto somewhere Republicans hang out?"

Would you call yourself a reasonable person?

[uponit7771]

106. +1,

[Celerity]

160. +1

[chowder66]

71. Anecdote: My boss and his girlfriend have been flying all over the world.

She has some health conditions (asthma mainly) and they take Covid very seriously.

They only wear N95's and do not eat or drink on their flights to avoid lifting their masks. So far they are safe.
They have been doing this since Covid started.

I'm not ready to fly yet but when I do, I'll be doing exactly as they are doing.

[róisín_dubh]

99. I've flown a bunch.

Didn't get COVID on a plane. I got it at work and from a friend. If you're careful, you're good. The bigger issues are in the airports I imagine.

[hamsterjill]

74. It feels like every time we make a little headway

We relax the requirements too soon and get hit again. When will we ever learn?

I no longer trust the CDC and continue to mask and distance. I’ve been lucky enough not to have caught COVID thus far and I am doing everything I can to continue to avoid it. The ramifications of long haul COVID are not understood well enough for anyone to assure that catching it would result in a mild case.

[LuckyCharms]

82. We will never learn.

At the very beginning of this pandemic, I had the strong notion that we should just do a hard lockdown for a month. Get it over with. Bite the bullet.

But instead, here we are over two full years later, increasing and decreasing and then increasing and then decreasing masking requirements, etc. And many people express complete shock about this. It will continue like this until we learn, but we never learn. We could have done it right in the first place, but we didn't, and a large reason why we didn't is because instead of a human being leading us, we had a lizard who imitates a clown. A lizard who suggested to the entire country that shining bright lights up our asses and taking a few shots of bleach might cure us.

So, it will go on like this, until it doesn't go on like this. And it will mutate. Maybe to a variant that is worse, maybe to a variant that is not so bad. It will go on like this until the virus has had enough.

And maybe in a year or two, people who were able to shrug off Covid now, will grow two extra heads. We know pretty much nothing about potential long-term effects. And people will be shocked and dismayed again, because they will wonder where their two extra floppy heads came from. I know that sounds silly, but I'm trying to illustrate a point. We never learn and we are always shocked at the consequences of our actions. And then they will just write-off the fact that they have two extra heads, just like they write-off the fact that just over a million people in this country have died from variants of this disease. Because the desire to be normal is the highest priority for many.

To this moment, I hear comments such as: "Don't worry, it mainly affects the elderly" or "Don't worry, it mainly affects you if you have pre-existing conditions". And I'm still hearing those comments, only now, there's the additional "Don't worry, you're vaccinated". Being vaccinated means the virus probably won't make people dead, but they might wish they were.

What are those elderly and sick people? Chopped liver? Non-human?

I'm 63. I'm immunocompromised. My wife is younger. She is compromised as well. I have several conditions, but with one of them, even if I get a cold, it throws my system off in such a way that aggravates that chronic condition to the point where I could be and have been hospitalized. And there are MILLIONS of people like me walking around.

I may be sick, I may be older, but I'm the strongest I've ever been in my life, and I'm the smartest I've ever been in my life. Because I fight every day. I struggle. My life is actually terrible, but I don't whine about it, I find the beauty in it. I fight it. I do what has to be done.

Do.what.has.to.be.done.

It gets to me occasionally, but I'm usually positive. But I still have those days where I want to just lay back and check out for good. But I don't check out. Because I'm a very important person. You are a very important person. Most everyone is a very important person.

And who am I to complain about my little problems when there is so much suffering by others all around me? When it could always be, and is for so many people, so much worse? Get back to normal? Millions, perhaps billions of people have never known "normal".

And the people who are in nursing homes, people who are incapacitated, people who are 100 years old: their life is exactly as valuable as yours and mine. No more, no less.

If there is one thing that I've learned, it's this. People who do not have chronic illnesses do not understand. Sick people live differently. They have to.

Many people don't know or don't care how others are forced to live their lives. They don't know what sick people go through even in the best of times, until they go through it. But they will know, because we all eventually know. They've just lucked out with the timing of it all. It's the way of the world. We go through life responding "good" when someone asks "How are you", because we know most people probably don't give a flying fuck anyway.

So how do compromised people, or elderly people, or caregivers that are trying to keep their parents or children safe...how do they fight against that attitude? They can't. Because people are going to be like people are going to be.

The Ukranians have it right. The Syrians have it right. Anyone in this world who has suffered immensely has it right. And regular, every day empathetic human beings have it right.

But many people in this country, and probably most countries, have a good many people who don't care to sacrifice for others. Because they have to get back to normal, or else.

When will we learn. When is enough, enough. When will we get back to normal.

When the virus says so.

Hi there hamsterjill. Sorry for the soapbox.

[hamsterjill]

91. Gosh, Lucky, if I could recommend your post a million times, I would.

You lay it all out so well. I feel what you are saying. Many of us who are compassionate and empathetic even to a degree have simply been put through hell the last few years. We show the wear and tear of that. I’m the same age as you and I’m involved in animal rescue. Most people in animal rescue are compassionate and empathetic, and see things that are pretty bad. But we content ourselves that we are at least trying to do some good and make things better - even if just for the one.

The last few years have brought me to my knees SO many times. The animal rescue stuff coupled WITH so much more has made me totally understand your comment about sometimes just wanting to check out. I also understand the rest of that comment about why we don’t. Because we have obligations and people and things that depend on us, and we, somewhere in the backs of our minds, always hope that we are going to be surprised and something, just some little thing even, is going to get better. We’ve been sadly disappointed a lot of late because not much seems to be getting better.

I am a person of faith and I ask God constantly why there is so much suffering. I’ve not yet understood the answer. I hope to one day.

Thanks for your post. It sure meant a lot to me. It helps to know that there are others like me, who think like me and want things to get better. To know that someone else gets their butt up in the morning even when they want to stay in bed and cry. Because you are absolutely right - we ARE all, each and every one of us, important.

We will never learn as a collective. But some of us have learned that we must keep trying.

[LuckyCharms]

118. Nicely said, hamsterjill

Good for you for being involved in animal recue! i was as well for about 15 years.

Don't worry, there are plenty of people out there who have the mindsets that we do, we're just usually not as vocal about it.

You're not alone.

[SoonerPride]

115. The virus was never going to be eliminated with a total lockdown anyway. That is preposterous.

The only purpose of the lockdowns here (which were nominal in reality) versus more draconian lockdowns in Italy and China was to flatten the curve and not completely overwhelm hospitals.

Once we had vaccines, the need for mitigation efforts decreased until now when the vaccine is the mitigation effort.

It keeps people who contract the virus out of the hospital and from dying.

By a huge factor.

So we did learn.

And we made good use of that knowledge by creating and using the vaccine to return to life.

[LuckyCharms]

119. Your opinion is fine with me.

However, I believe that there are several issues that you do not address in your comment, and I'll leave it at that.

Too exhausted to do down that rabbit hole today.

Have a good afternoon!

[uponit7771]

128. 97% of US adults over 16 has had at least 1 shot, we've learned pretty good

https://dig.abclocal.go.com/ccg/interactives/us-vaccine-tracker/vax_us_cdc.html#:~:text=About%2097.1%25%20of%20the%20U.S.,adult%20population%20is%20fully%20vaccinated.

[LuckyCharms]

142. My final comment on this, and it's a long one.

Last edited Fri Apr 8, 2022, 04:27 PM - Edit history (1)

You know how I feel. I know how you feel.

I laid out my argument in detail in a response above to this thread.

Neither one of us is going to change our minds.

I do however, think it's interesting that you chose that particular statistic from the link that you posted, when there are some other statistics right below that.

First, 1 shot pretty is pretty much useless, considering that we are now up to 4 shots required per the CDC in order to assure the greatest protection.

Secondly, from your link: 75.5% of the adult population is fully vaccinated. This means that about 25% of adults walking around next to you in the grocery store are unvaxxed. Notice that the statistic refers just to adults.

We know there there are people under the age of 18 who are also un-vaccinated. This means that the number of people around you in the grocery store is worse than 1 in 4. I could probably figure it out if I looked into the numbers, but maybe it's closer to 1 in every 3.5 people, or 1 in every 3.75, or 1 in every 3.25 people due to the people under 18 who are unvaxxed and not included in the above 75% statistic. They are eligible for the vax, but maybe their parents are Trumpers and discouraged them from getting the vaccine. These people are also in the grocery store with you.

But 1 in 4 is bad enough as it stands to illustrate the below points.

For simplicity, assume a linear distribution of the population.

That means that fully 1 in 4 people you are coming in contact with are unvaxxed.

1 in 4 people are shedding a virus more easily than a vaxxed person would be.

1 in 4 people people are allowing a virus to continue to mutate.

1 in 4 people are putting additional strain on our already ridiculously stressed health care system.

1 in 4 people are 97 times more likely to be hospitalized due to the virus. They are burning out our doctors and nurses, many of whom have had there lives ruined during the past two years, and are causing them to leave the medical field. Also, they are discouraging young people from entering the medical field, causing a significant concern.

1 in 4 people are eliminating any fair chance that we might have to eliminate this virus. They are giving a virus a chance to mutate, possibly unfavorably, thus enabling the potential to return to pandemic status if currently vaxxed people turn out to have no protection due to endless mutations.

1 in 4 people are eliminating any fair chance to eradicate a virus that we cannot predict the long term effects of. Nobody can predict the future effects of having Covid after a 5 year period, or a 10 year period. We've already been told by scientists that there are indications that it can damage your heart, brain, and kidneys.

Do we know how many years the average life span of an American is going to be cut by getting a case of Covid? No, we have no idea. Because the data does not exist yet, so it can't be studied.

We also we need to remember that some people, because of an immune disorder, may not develop antibodies even though they are fully vaxxed. The vaccine just doesn't take hold with some.

Also, the 1 in 4 number is magnified by orders of magnitude because unvaxxed people are 97 times more likely to be hospitalized by Covid. 97 times more likely. Think about how big that number is. 97 times means 9,700% more likely to be shedding a viral load that was significant enough to hospitalize them. Nine thousand seven hundred percent more likely. A number like that magnifies the above problem by a ridiculous amount.

Also, the CDC is not the same organization that it was before tfg took office. Some scientists were eliminated from their positions by tfg. Their recommendations now seem to filter through the political system first. They used to use stronger language in their recommendations. They used to use words like "you must". Now, they use words like "the CDC recommends". I'm sure that issue is being addressed by the current administration, but the CDC was broken by tfg, and now it has to be fixed.

1 in 4 people are forcing the smart people who develop vaccines to expend time and energy studying viral variants constantly, when they could be working on eradicating other diseases. Covid created a huge opportunity cost. And 1 in 4 people are making that opportunity cost more expensive year after year.

1 and 4 people will never change their mindset. Even if the next pandemic happens long after these unvaxxed people have passed away, they have passed that mindset along to their children who may contribute towards the deaths of 10 million people in the US, instead of 1 million, because the next pandemic may be 10 time worse than Covid.

Vaccines protect you from ending up in the hospital and dying from Covid. That's it. Do you know how sick you have to be these days to be admitted to an inpatient bed? Pretty goddamn sick.

Do you want to feel like total shit for what could be a long period of time, even though your vital signs are stable, so you won't be admitted?

You might ask "but what about people who have had Omicron, very mildly, or with no symptoms at all"? That's wonderful, I'm happy for them. But I still worry about their possible outcomes in the future. I'm also sad for the people who endured harsh suffering, because their case wasn't so mild.

So if 1 in 4 people (and perhaps even worse) of the people you see on a daily basis have and will continue to be the factor that causes all of the above issues, what have we really learned as a society in general?

We have learned that a comparatively small minority of people can fuck up the majority of people.

Thanks for your discussion, I hope you have a good evening!

[liberal_mama]

136. Wow! +1000, Lucky Charms!

I feel exactly the same way.

[Calculating]

150. A hard lockdown would do nothing

Look at China now. No herd immunity and COVID is tearing them apart.

[LuckyCharms]

153. In reality, we most likely don't have any idea, one way or another,

what is going on in China, because the data they distribute publicly is probably not correct, and cannot be relied upon. Also, we are different from China in a million ways, so why compare the US to China?

And I absolutely disagree that a draconian type of lockdown would not do anything. There should have been a country wide lockdown as soon as the first case in the US was announced, because you'd have to be dead stupid to think at that time that that the virus would not spread like wildfire.

Turns out, we indeed had a POTUS who was dead stupid.

Pragmatically, it would have to practically take troops in the street to accomplish that here, because 25% of our population is weak, lives in a fantasy world, interprets the constitution to their liking, and uses that interpretation as a crutch, no matter how the courts interpret the document.

So then they go out and buy more guns, to shoot at anything they think is attacking their freedom, and to intimidate those on the left. There's plenty of examples why a real, hard lockdown would be difficult to do in this country, but our leader at the time chose to default in the other direction and not do a goddamn thing until is was too late. Imagine tfg trying to understand what exponential growth is?

I'm surprised that these freedom lovers know how to tie their fucking shoes. My point is, we didn't try to do anything hardly at all, until it was much too late, because of a big human stop sign in the oval office, who was warned, but did not take action.

Do you think if a Dem was in office at that time that we would be up to a million deaths right now? I don't.

[Zeitghost]

155. So we have a draconian lockdown...

For a few weeks or months or whatever it took to be successful. I'm not sure how people would eat or how public services and utilities would work or how we would develop vaccines and other needed drugs or how hospitals and nursing homes would operate or how we would solve countless other issues, but let's assume we found safe ways to keep people alive and fed and safe.

Then what? The virus would still be circulating around the globe for eternity in other human populations as well as in animals.

That is why serious lockdowns will never work. Because eventually, you'll have to lift the lockdown and then the virus will find a way in and spread like wildfire because nobody has immunity.

The plan from the beginning was to slow the spread to prevent the collapse of the healthcare system and allow us time to come up with vaccines and treatments. Zero COVID was never in the cards and I'm not sure when or how so many were fooled into believing it was ever a possibility.

[LuckyCharms]

157. Of course is isn't a posssibility...

Last edited Fri Apr 8, 2022, 09:27 PM - Edit history (1)

My point is this:

trump was warned. he knew all there was to know at the time. he knew well before the virus decided to cross the ocean.

i think he was told that extreme measures needed to be taken to limit the amount of deaths. Probably not draconian, but extreme. maybe slightly harsh, whatever.

obviously, essential services would need to remain open. we did not have smart people leading this country at the time, and by that i mean, people who have the final say on what to do. i'm not talking about the scientists. i am of the belief that tfg refused to take any basic measures before it was already too late. with some problems, you have to try to stop them before they start. not only did he not even make an attempt, i think he actively resisted scientific advice.

i believe his one and only concern was that the economic indicators would make him look bad.

so i think that what you call "the plan from the beginning" was actually a compromise between trump and his advisors. any and all actions taken were based on politics and not science. because, unfortunately, scientists can only advise potus, they can't issue emergency declarations.

it wasn't enough, it was too late, and governors of several states recognized this and went off and did what they believed to be the best for their state.

an intelligent potus would have gone balls to the wall, even knowing that it would not be completely successful. in other words, try to stop the thing before it gets here. he literally threw away obama's pandemic playbook.

[Beautiful Disaster]

168. Lockdowns are not effective.

I get your point but I don't agree with it. A hard lockdown in 2020 wouldn't have killed the virus.

Because we can't really trust China on anything, I won't use them as an example but I will point out that they've done hard lockdowns and had a fairly authoritative response to COVID and we still know that it's still an issue there - why? Because they continue to implement lockdowns.

China is, by all reports, battling its biggest COVID wave yet - and yet, lockdowns didn't stop that wave from coming.

Everything else out of China should be taken with a grain of salt (deaths, and overall cases). But we know Shanghai is currently locked down. That's not up for debate.

But if China, and all their lockdowns, are still fighting the virus, it only reasons we likely would be in a similar boat we are now because COVID doesn't seem to just go away, even with lockdowns. So, unless the answer is to be perpetually locked down, which is not reasonable in any way, I do not know the answer.

Another good example is Spain. Of course, we know Spain had some of the most severe lockdowns in 2020. But it didn't really stop COVID from spreading throughout the country. It slowed things - just as we had hoped to slow things in 2020 - but Spain saw more COVID cases at the beginning of 2022 than they did at the height of the pandemic in 2020. Now they've seen a significant drop in COVID cases the last few months but so has the rest of the world.

They're now lifting face mask requirements this month.

The difference? A country like Spain is 85% fully vaccinated. The United States is at 66.2%.

That is a pitiful number and a reason we'll likely continue to struggle.

But that can't be fixed. We can't force people to get vaccinated. Biden tried and the Supreme Court said absolutely not.

So, that number is going to be the bane of our existence.

Still, lockdowns won't prevent COVID. We know this because of everything I outlined above.

But at a certain point we're going to have to just concede that there's a vaccine readily available that will protect most Americans, keep them from having to be hospitalized and even from death - if people are willing to take it.

I am 100% vaccinated. I still wear my mask when I'm out. But I am not going to stop my life because 35% of the country won't get vaccinated. It's not fair to those who have done everything responsible and now we have a vaccine that allows for us a semi-return to normal and yet some still advocate for that to not happen.

I don't get it - it's madness. At this point, we have to take precautions but start living our lives because I think it's clear, no matter how forceful the response, COVID isn't going away. So, we either just hunker down for the next decade and become hermits in or homes, hoping we somehow have enough of an income to pay our rent/mortgage, or we begrudgingly figure out how to live with it.

Myself? Like I said, I still wear a mask when I go outside. I wash my hands every time I return home. I attempt to social distance when possible. I am vaccinated and boosted. I've been lucky, I have not gotten COVID yet *knock on wood*. But I also plan on doing things this year.

I am going to Vegas in June.

I have a concert I am going to in August.

I will go to the movies.

But to your last point: The virus is never going to let us get back to normal. If we listen to the virus, there will never be a new normal again. Any level of entertainment will die - from movies to sports to concerts to arts and theater. They will all die if we continue to wait for the virus to let us get back to normal. It's never going to happen. Maybe you're okay with that, and it's whatever, but I'm not.

We are the ones who have to make our new normal. For me, that's going to concerts (went to one last summer - it was great), movies (went to see Halloween Kills in October and loved it), restaurants (went to one on my mom's birthday, a year after I lost her in 2020 not due to COVID but cancer and how sucky it was to lose my mom in a year where she was entirely isolated from everyone she loved because of COVID). Vacation (I mentioned Vegas). For you? That's your call. I respect whatever you feel comfortable doing in the face of this virus. What you feel your new normal is.

But we will never get rid of COVID. It's likely to be here forever - or at least a good chunk of the next long while. At that point, yes, we have to find ways to live with it because if we don't, and we let the virus dictate society, we won't have a society anymore because it won't survive constant lockdowns. That isn't a sustainable reality. What is? Continued advocating for COVID vaccines and boosters.

[LuckyCharms]

171. Beautiful Disaster, Welcome to DU!

I think that your post is outstanding.

I disagree with you on a few points, but I agree with a lot of the things that you have said.

Thank you for the very thoughtful and well-written post, and welcome!

[Beautiful Disaster]

175. Thank you - and good luck to you!

We may disagree on this but I am sure we agree on a lot!

[LuckyCharms]

176. I'm sure we do! Best of luck to you as well.

[liberal_mama]

140. The county that I live in is back up to 10% positivity and that doesn't include home tests

It's incredibly frustrating. I have no faith in the CDC anymore either.

I haven't caught Covid yet either, despite my vaccinated husband catching it (he wasn't wearing a mask at work even though I told him he needed to). I am masking and trying very hard to avoid it, which gets harder all the time with all the maskless people running around.

I know several people with long haul Covid and their lives are ruined because of it. One of them was a healthy young man in his mid 20s. He was the best man at my daughter's wedding. He can't even work anymore and had to move back home with his parents.

It saddens me to see so many people have shown they don't have empathy for others that might be more high risk than they are. I realize now that many of my friends who I thought had compassion for others really don't.

[Ms. Toad]

77. Sheer politics and stupidity. n/t

[IcyPeas]

81. Businesses were losing money and pressured their reps to stop the mandates

It's about the $$$$$$$$$

[Sympthsical]

117. La science c'est moi

Or something.

The CDC mismanaged this whole thing from the word go. They continue being weirdly political in many different areas, disallowing people to understand Covid in even a fundamental way. Ask four different people about various risks, and you'll get four different answers.

Shockingly, those answers will vary based on one's politics. Weird, right? How science magically evolves based on political need?

I'll continue reading scientific papers. Some things are risky. Some things are no risk. An objective view will generally inform.

The CDC will do whatever it is does. Dunno. I haven't taken them seriously through any of this, so.

[inthewind21]

122. Ask 4 different people

About ANYTHING and you'll get 4 different answers. This is the world we live in today. Hell, we have citizens camped out in Dallas Texas who think, no BELIEVE, a resurrection will happen and change the face of Government. And do tell, exactly how the CDC "disallow" people to understand COVID? I concede, the intelligence level in the US is pretty bad right now, but we haven't gone full blown isolation and brainwashing yet. Unless you're a FOX viewer, and even then, that is a choice. We ALL still have access to information. From all over the world. It's just weather we choose to seek it or choose to get information from FB and twitter and remain oblivious.

[Sympthsical]

125. Conflicting views

Shifting policies based clearly on political expedience rather than scientific data (unmasking last May as variants were ramping up?). Telling "strategic" lies early on. Colluding with people and organizations to get a policy outcome rather than a health-based one.

They made themselves untrustworthy. Just how they chose to do that whole thing.

In the end, I'll just do what science and not a politically motivated department dictate. Right now, three shots and omicron antibodies. I'm good. If it changes, I'll change.

But I won't be getting my information or guidance from them. They blew it. There are plenty of other places to examine objective science.

If people want to be crazy, either by not vaccinating or mentally deteriorating into shrieking hermits, go absolutely wild. That hasn't been about science and health for awhile. I feel like we're just watching everyone's mental illness play out.

It's interesting enough. I'm just done changing my own behavior around it.

[Stuart G]

124. Thank You for Posting & Sharing With Us...K and R

[AntivaxHunters]

126. You're welcome, I'm just stunned

at a few of the replies. It seems there are those who are more concerned with being inconvenienced than doing the right thing by wearing masks and such. I mean this is a Liberal forum and not Trumpland, right?

Calling mask mandates "draconian" is what I'd expect from Ron DeSantis. In fact, I'm pretty sure he's said the same exact thing before.

[liberal_mama]

167. Yeah, I'm stunned by some of the comments too

As an immune compromised person, I have had people say the most cruel things to me. My life doesn't matter at all if it causes some healthy person the slightest inconvenience. There is no compassion from some people and sadly, it hasn't just been Trumpers.

[AntivaxHunters]

169. Same here

I'm already infected from a superbug infection & highly compromised.
A few of the responses on here are straight out of the Karen playbook where people put a minor inconvenience above the general welfare of everyone around them. Selfishness is not where it's at when it comes to public health & is a big Libertarian ideal, nothing Liberal, & I'll challenge anyone on that argument to refute me.

[uppityperson]

130. It's amazing how many with Ukraine flags find masks such an onerous burden

[SoonerPride]

133. I think you are conflating "unnecessary" with "onerous."

I didn't find wearing a mask onerous prior to the vaccines.

But once I have been vaccinated and boosted the necessity of mask wearing is gone.

They are now unnecessary as a mitigation effort.

The vaccines work.

If you personally feel the need to continue wearing a mask, then do so. No one will stop you.

But there is no need for me to wear one anymore.

[beaglelover]

135. +1. I'm so happy to no longer have to wear a mask during Pilates classes or at the regular

gym. It sucked wearing the mask during strenuous exercising.

It's also so nice to see people's faces again. And their smiles.

[uppityperson]

138. Thank you for providing an example.

I am glad that, as a public health nurse, masking is still mandated in my clinics as local case rates are increasing again since stopping the widespread mask mandate.

[AntivaxHunters]

170. You noticed that too I see

[Demovictory9]

131. Pandemic is over..in my calif area, everyone tossed the masks

or thats how it seems

[beaglelover]

134. The pandemic IS over. COVID is now in the endemic phase.

[SoonerPride]

139. I have yet to see anyone say at what point they will feel comfortable.

Except those of us who have stated we are already comfortable.

But for those who still feel threatened by Covid, they cannot articulate at what point will they ever feel safe?

Never?

Covid zero? (which is also going to be never)

I'm vaxxed and 2x boosted.

I feel happy as a clam and do not worry about Covid anymore at all.

I thank science for that.

[Lady Freedom Returns]

141. Good for you.

They have been saying that about Tucson too. But our hospitals beg to differ!

[gldstwmn]

143. Laissez le bon temps rouler.

Meanwhile all kinds of people are coming down with Covid. I don't think I will be getting on an airplane any time soon.

[liberal_mama]

149. Exactly! I just got a call 5 minutes ago that a triple vaxxed Uncle is very sick with Covid

The positivity rate in my county is 10%, not counting self reported home tests! How is this low community spread?

But yeah, Let the Good Times Roll!

[gldstwmn]

151. I hope your uncle gets well soon. Since we went from reporting test results to hospitalizations

there has certainly been a drop. I think it has given some a false sense of security. Cases are on the rise in certain parts of the country.

[liberal_mama]

152. Eric Feigl-Ding has Covid too now, his son also positive

He says he was denied anti-viral pills!

Link to tweet

[Zeitghost]

156. I wish Dr. Feigl-Ding a quick and full recovery

But his case points out exactly what I and others have been bringing up, that there is no escaping COVID.

Assuming his constant message of fear and panic were not simply a device to raise his own public profile (an assumption I'm not 100% convinced of) you have to believe that the Dr. who was fully vaxxed and boosted took every precaution possible. Social distancing, 100% mask compliance using N95's, isolating at home whenever possible, etc. And he still got COVID.

If he, a true believer in the dangers of COVID and a champion of putting strict public health policies into effect to stop it caught it, how were we ever supposed to stop it's spread through the entire population, 99%+ of whom took it less seriously than Dr. Feigl-Ding?



The unrealistic expectations we have had over our response to COVID have been extremely damaging IMO.

[liberal_mama]

158. I do believe Dr. Feigl-Ding took every precaution, but he said his son was also positive

I'm not sure how old his son is, but if he was in school, that's probably how he got Covid with masks optional now. I can only imagine how much virus is floating around schools these days. It's very unfortunate.

I hope Dr. Feigl-Ding doesn't end up with long covid or other complications seeing he's missing part of his lung.

Dr. Feigl-Ding said he hadn't went to any parties or gatherings and I'm sure he was properly masked, but you go to the grocery store and there are maskless people coughing all over. Masks work, but they aren't 100%.

With long covid and all the other horrendous studies about long term damage coming out, I sure hope a good percentage of the population can avoid getting infected.

My husband had Covid (and I avoided it by masking around him throughout the entire pandemic), and it's been 3 months and he's still got all these issues. He's like a totally different person now with the fatigue and brain fog. He told me, "I think I just need more time to recover."

Yesterday, he thought he was taking 4 ibuprofen and he accidentally took 4 Gabapentin 600mg tablets. This happened at work and he's an essential worker. He told me he was so spaced out he didn't even know where he was or what he was doing. Oh, and yesterday was our 22nd wedding anniversary and he forgot because he forgets everything since the Covid.

Geez, I sure hope it gets better.

[LisaL]

174. He managed to get the pills eventually.

NT

[róisín_dubh]

178. So was I.

Is he over 50? Immuocompromised?
If neither, no anti-virals, according to my doctor.