Question: Does the world, at some point, roll the dice and stop the crushing of Ukraine.

[Magoo48]

Or, do we let the blood lust run its course, and if so, how much will be too much? At what point will we act? It’s a tough one. Watching the schoolyard bully try and beat a smaller kid to death rubs most of us wrong. Personally, I haven’t any answers, but I do know how I feel.

[Sherman A1]

1. A wider war, likely on a global scale is preferable to

A very bad limited war?

That is precisely what you are discussing in your post.

[Magoo48]

2. I'm asking questions. I'm not proposing anything. This is what I felt.

[thomski64]

3. We have seen who Putin is..

...five times now. Grozny,Ossetia, Crimea,
Allepo, and now this. If this is not the time
to stop him, when is???

[brush]

43. Absolutely. He can keep doing this by threatening...

nuclear war if NATO countries, or anyone, retaliates.

When is time to call his bluff?

[NoRethugFriends]

5. The word you are fumbling for is genocide (nt)

[Sherman A1]

6. I'm not fumbling for anything

But, thanks for trying……

[Irish_Dem]

8. Do we let Putin carve up the world to his liking with barbaric methods?

Ukraine is not his last stop.

[Sherman A1]

13. Based upon the performance of his army thus far it may

Very well be just that.

[Irish_Dem]

19. You don't need a big or powerful army to terrorize a population.

Even the Russian army can pull that off. Terrorize, kill, rape, kidnap a population enough to make them surrender.

A small group of bullies, unchecked, can do a lot of damage.

And China hasn't even started yet.

It is taking lessons from Russia and will be more successful.

[uponit7771]

40. THIS !!!! ☝🏾☝🏾☝🏾 The Russian Army is a mechanized terrorist organization that's it. Any armored

... forces can do the aforementioned but they can't beat military regulars so they're of little threat to professional soldiers.

NATO can flood Ukr with cruise missiles and rocket artillery to supplement offensive air power in the short term.

We can do more

[Sherman A1]

53. I disagree

[tavernier]

100. So do I.

It sure feels to me like some people are anxious to see Ukraine incinerated. Because that will be Putin’s very first step if America hits Russia with a nuke.

[Demsrule86]

32. It is madness...this is not 1939 ...we have nukes...the end of the world...no lie.

[uponit7771]

36. If Putrid *AND* the people around him are TRULY suicidal then there's NOTHING we can or can NOT

... do to stop them from pushing the button.

Russia is going to lose in Ukraine, do we help them win so they don't lob nukes when they do?

This is a scare tactic, Putrid is stupid not suicidal

[Walleye]

44. Putin has an army of suicide bombers

It seems like it’s practically impossible to stop a hostile force when they don’t mind killing themselves

[uponit7771]

54. Right, we might as well go all in but not with troops seeing RU destroyed by Ukr citizens would ...

... further make their military a paper tiger.

Ukraine using cruise missiles and precision rocket artillery changes this war on dime

[Walleye]

57. That sounds about right to me. Let's finally put these weapons to good use

[uponit7771]

64. 👍🏾

[Demsrule86]

60. If we set one foot in Ukraine or NATO does I think Putin will use nukes. This is not a scare tactic.

It is rumored he is terminally ill...what does he have to lose? Hitler would have used nukes IMHO and Putin will too...we should not do this.

[uponit7771]

62. I don't believe the people around him are suicidal even if he is. The people around Hitler were ...

... trying to kill Hitler on multiple occasions and he didn't have nukes at the time.

No doubt the people around Putrid isn't as stupid as he is seeing the other rumor is Putrid started this war in isolation of full advisement.

I do agree NATO boots on the ground would be counterproductive because I believe if David kills Goliath the Goliaths around the world wont be eager for war for a generation.

NATO floods UKR with rocket range precision artillery and cruise missiles this war changes on a dime

[Demsrule86]

65. You have Western values...we have no way of knowing what might happen. I wouldn't bet my life or

my child's life on it.

[uponit7771]

68. The Russian army is full of Orcs not the generals and advisors in the Kremlin. You'd have to believe

... they don't mind their families blown to nothing in less than a day.

Again, even Hitler had multiple attacks from the inside and he didn't have nukes.

Humans want to live

[Polybius]

83. Why take the chance?

As it is now, we're not being attacked, so why risk it?

[Calculating]

88. To save millions of innocent people from the new holocaust?

Seems like a decent reason.

[Polybius]

93. Millions?

Do you really think that many will die?

[Calculating]

97. Yes

The Russians want to depopulate Ukraine.

[Polybius]

99. Extremely unlikely without nukes

Unless it's a huge war (USSR in WWII), millions dying is rare. 50,000 tops.

[Sherman A1]

56. Even without a nuclear exchange

An expanded war that includes conventional weaponry on a global scale world simply spread and expand the beyond anything the folks advocating for direct NATO involvement seem a believe or understand.

[Bettie]

101. So, by that token, Finland and Sweden shouldn't be allowed to join NATO either

because that might make Putin angry and cause him to use his nuclear weapons.

If he attacks say, Estonia or Poland...he'll still have Nuclear weapons and the very same threat.

Where does it stop? Seems like a lot of people think that it doesn't, as long as he can threaten.

[uponit7771]

34. What wider war? Against what military? tia

[Demsrule86]

63. It would be a WWIII...everyone would take sides....not a good idea. And no crazy dictator with

nukes is a paper tiger.

[uponit7771]

66. They are a paper tiger if they're not going to use them knowing it'll mean their own death...

... or death of their families quickly.

I don't see Putrid as suicidal, he would've made that move already seeing there's nothing stopping him if he was truly suicidal

[Polybius]

84. And if you're wrong, then what?

"I'm sorry, we lost 3 billion people because I guessed wrong. On the plus side, the population is way down."

[uponit7771]

87. Which way is right? Letting 1 million people get killed a month because of threats from a

... from an idiot with an orc army and a 60% failure rate on their weapons including nukes?

[Polybius]

94. Yes

1 million is better than 3 billion, no? Although that 1 million number is sky high.

[uponit7771]

95. True, it is better but the question remains if Putrid **AND** the people around him are really ...

... suicidal then **WHEN** he loses in Russia he pushes the button anyway no?

tia

[Polybius]

96. It's only suicidal if he launches now

If we attack him and go into Moscow, he would be ousted in months. Nukes would be a big option, and generals would agree because it's either that or die. With nukes, they may feel that a first strike would give them the upper hand.

I don't see him launching at us if he loses in Ukraine, so long as we don't send in troops.

[marie999]

4. NATO should intervene now.

[Sherman A1]

9. It has been since before the start of the Russian invasion

But, you know that fact very well.

[Demsrule86]

33. Ukraine is not a NATO country.

[marie999]

71. Either was Afghanistan or Iraq.

[Polybius]

85. They follow the US' lead

We started those awful wars, not NATO. Plus we shouldn't have been involved in either, so bad examples.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

59. No.

That is all.

[BlueTsunami2018]

7. There are wars that have been going on for over twenty years.

Sudan, Congo, Yemen and so on. Every bit as brutal but we never hear about it. I remember hearing about Chechnya and Syria here and there in passing when those were going on but it wasn’t endless wall to wall coverage.

Why is this one getting the laser focus it is? Why isn’t anyone clambering about us getting involved in the war in Yemen?

I think what’s going on in Ukraine is horrible, of course it is, but I certainly don’t want to get involved in it personally. We just got out of a pointless, idiotic and expensive war. We don’t need to get into another that might have an apocalyptic ending.

[Sherman A1]

11. Well, there is all that

But some folks are on a roll here.

[Irish_Dem]

12. Because Putin is going after democracies now.

Putin and China wish to be the 21st century superpowers.

It is going to be a battle between democracy and autocracy.

We are going to have to face the problem sooner or later.

[BlueTsunami2018]

16. Yeah well, we're losing that battle right here.

No need to travel half way around the world to fight it.

[58Sunliner]

20. It would probably be better to deal with the head of the viper than the tail.

[Irish_Dem]

23. Putin has been very successful installing his puppets in the US government.

Decades of work finally paying off.

Radicalizing the far right here in the US. Installing high level government officials. Spreading a great deal of money to bribe officials.

Creating chaos and division. Destabilizing our country to the point it is a national security issue.

All the more reason we take Putin to task.

[Demsrule86]

27. We are using every means available to stop Putin...But we send troops ...we may end up in a nuclear

war. I don't think we want to do that.

[uponit7771]

69. We can do more and not send NATO forces over or on Ukr land

[Walleye]

46. Destroying what was our stellar public education system

[Irish_Dem]

76. Destroying as many institutions as possible.

Public health, libraries, education, health care, elections, etc.

[uponit7771]

47. True, that doesn't mean we sit and let it go unchecked elsewhere. Ian Bremmer was arguing your

... very point this morning on MJ and I agree with him to an extent that democracy in the US is "shaky".

US needs to be higher on the democracy index than Canada and Japan

[walkingman]

70. Something to ponder from Chomsky concerning US support for Democracies -

If it’s possible to break out of the propaganda bubble for a few minutes, the US has a long record of undermining and destroying democracy. Do I have to run through it? Iran in 1953, Guatemala in 1954, Congo in 1960, Dominican Republic in 1961, South Vietnam in 1963, Brazil in 1964, Chile in 1973, on and on… America has only ever cared about America’s democracy (and that is questionable of late), and those in other nations have never mattered unless they fell in line with so-called U.S. national interests. But we are supposed to now honor and admire Washington’s enormous commitment to sovereignty and democracy. What happened in history doesn’t matter. That’s for other people.

[uponit7771]

45. Those wars aren't clean naked aggression against a democracy by an autocracy with goal to ...

... wipe out the culture of the population?

Jus sayin

[Walleye]

48. That's it. A war of aggression against a democratic country to acquire their territory,crush democra

[The Revolution]

79. Yemen is basically a civil war

That the Saudis have gotten involved in as some kind of proxy war with Iran. The main source of outcry has been from the Saudi bombing campaign, which we have been supporting.

So getting more involved would mean what? Sending troops to help the Saudis? That doesn't seem great. Turning on the Saudis and helping the Houthis (supposedly backed by Iran, Syria, North Korea)? That doesn't seem like something we would do. I don't think we are going to go in to support Al-Qaeda or IS either.

This seems like a conflict we should be less involved with, not more. Unless involvement means helping to broker a peace deal, assuming anyone involved wants that from us.

[Wuddles440]

80. The ugly reality is...

that the reason those conflicts you cited generated little or no interest with the western democracies, is that they involved either people of color, muslims, civil war, or combinations of these elements. Putins' invasion of Ukraine is an attack on a sovereign nation with a population that has strong ethnic connections to the western nations and a culture that relies heavily on judeo-christian principles and practices. Did the atrocities that occurred in those other countries deserve just as much attention and condemnation as the barbarism that's being perpetrated in Ukraine? Absolutely! Unfortunately longstanding biases impeded any such action or intervention.

[Tomconroy]

10. Jake Sullivan should immediately be fired as National

Security Advisor. He is a disgrace.

[brooklynite]

15. Because why?

[Demsrule86]

25. Why? Stop attacking our side...Trump set this up with his bud Putin.

[doc03]

14. Nope we won't get our hands dirty there just send them weapons to prolong

the carnage. No matter what that was taken off the table.

[Demsrule86]

26. This isn't about getting your hands dirty...this could be the fucking end of the world.

[doc03]

31. I doubt Pootin wants to give up his life of luxury in his billion dollar

palace. It is just a matter of time before someone has to call his hand.

[Demsrule86]

37. It has been reported that Putin may be terminally ill...and I personally think he may be mad in

the same way Hitler was....he will use nukes IMHO.

[Walleye]

50. I agree. We are trying predict Putin's actions by Western values. He is a madman

[Demsrule86]

58. I believe he is considering using nukes...as you say he is a madman.

[haele]

77. Predict his moves from a KGB standpoint instead

Putin is a typical Stalinist. Which was never far from a typical John Bircher. Two side of the same coin.

Authoritarian/Patriarchal. Conservative. Tribal. Millitant. Ambitious. Narcissistic.

There's a huge blind side that Stalinists and Birchers both have, and that is the overwhelming belief that no matter what they do, they are always right and must be respected because of "rightness" at all times.

There is no such thing as being political to those dark triad types once they back-stab their way up to the top.

Haele

[doc03]

55. We let him take over any country he wants and kill millions of people

because there is a rumor he could be terminally ill? Just hope he dies before he hits us.

[Demsrule86]

67. We are not letting him do anything...Russia is in monetary default.

We are doing everything we can.

[marie999]

72. Bull

[TomSlick]

81. We're doing something but hardly everything we can.

We are fighting the Russians to the last Ukrainian.

[uponit7771]

49. Again, what happens when Putrids troops are decimated in Ukraine ?! He doesn't look at the button

... as a way of winning?!

In that case just don't help them at all?!

I'm not understanding the "he'll use nukes" position seeing he'll use them anyway if he and the people around him a truly suicidal

[58Sunliner]

17. It's an terrible decision, that history may well show, needed to be made earlier.

I personally think we need to intervene in some way, beyond supplying weapons and sanctions.

[Amishman]

18. The real goal of the US, EU, and NATO is eliminating the Russian threat long term

Russia has been carrying out this bully annexation over and over. Why is the western world helping this time? Because Russia finally took a big enough bite that they are choking a little. The goal is to make sure Russia chokes to death on it. Winning the fight for Ukraine quickly won't do that.

For the long term goal, Russia needs to keep choking and dying, which means Ukraine stays in the wolf's mouth.

[uponit7771]

52. "quickly" is the problem, allowing Russia to decimate a culture and land and resources for a ...

... decade or even a year is unethical at best.

Putrid is playing this part of his terrorism smartly; rape and murder and destruction aren't a good justification for bleeding the Russian military to death over years.

[SoCalDavidS]

21. No. nt

[Duppers]

90. Why not?

[SoCalDavidS]

92. Well....

I don't think the world wants to get directly involved, and for the most part, is willing to let Russia do what it's doing to Ukraine.

We'll try to help them through back channels, perhaps with supplying them via other countries in the region. But in terms of direct engagement in the conflict, we've all but indicated that is something we're not will to engage in.

[Demsrule86]

22. You are talking about WWIII with nukes...that has to be really the last option.

[48656c6c6f20]

24. No no no!

The mad man of the very long table would use nukes. We must allow him to feel appeased so he doesn't act like a madman at a very long table with nukes. As we know sanctions have turned the likes of North Korea to not do things like test nukes... Oh shit ok. Maybe we need more sanctions. Yeah that will work.

[Demsrule86]

38. Seriously, this is the time to consider assassination.

[Progressive dog]

28. This is not a schoolyard bully.

This is a dictator with nuclear weapons.

[mopinko]

29. he isnt going to stop, he must be defeated.

nato and the u.s. could wipe out most of his remaining army in a day.
so why let the bodies stack up day in and day out when we will have to step in in some way at some point.

we already are in ww3.

[Demsrule86]

39. Do you have a burning desire to see our county nuked?

[Demsrule86]

61. I just don't think we can do that...it would be madness.

You won't be fighting this war...it would be a slaughter...NO

[Aristus]

30. The thing is, in the case of Russia-Ukraine, if the dice don't land the way we want them to,

it's not going to be that people pick their money off the table and say to us: "Better luck next time."

It's going to be nuclear holocaust.

[Demsrule86]

41. Exactly.

[SmallFry]

35. The world will continue what it's doing.

What we have told Putin is clear. Do as you wish within the borders of Ukraine and our involvement will be to arm Ukraine and pile up sanctions on Russia.

This seems to be the understanding and accepted course of action when it comes to world leaders.

If Putin does this I believe there will be no change in world policy.

1) Not go outside of the borders of Ukraine.
2) Putin can take and hold all areas around the Port of Mariupol.
3) Putin can put Russian figureheads in place in some areas after kidnapping or killing local government officials.

Point three is Putin’s big failure and miscalculation in all of this. He thought he could do it country-wide. He can’t.

I truly believe world powers will sit by no matter the level of brutality if Putin doesn’t go much beyond that in the next month. Seems pretty clear to me that is Putin’s current plan.

Sanctions must remain as long as Putin remains in power.

[Demsrule86]

51. Consider what a nuclear holocausts would mean to the world...possibly the end of life.

I don't understand why people are so eager to rush into this thing...we just fought a never-ending war in the middle east...and we have stood by when people were Massacred before...Africa comes to mind.

[marie999]

73. I bet Putin hasn't misses a meal during this war.

[SmallFry]

75. No one would take you up on that bet. NT

[Scrivener7]

42. These are good questions. And there are no good answers to them.

[marie999]

74. If Putin doesn't attack a NATO country by the end of this year, I will write that I was wrong.

If Putin attacks a Baltic country and all NATO countries send troops, I will write that I was wrong.

[ripcord]

78. Putin wins simply by having nukes

Many are willing to sacrifice Ukraine and when it comes down to it many will be willing to sacrifice Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania even though they are NATO counties.

[Samrob]

82. I just don't understand how it is that Putin is still alive. We all know forces that exist

get to and kill any one of our leaders over the years. Squads from Israel, Turkey, Saudi Arabia and more have set sites on world leaders erc. and with much success. Yet Putin still walks among us. It must be that his supporters are among those have the power and resources to do him in. Saddam, Quadaffi, Sadat etc. they weren't exactly inconsequential men without armies.

[Polybius]

86. Let's say Biden orders an attack on Russia:

And Russia responds with 500-1,000 nukes that hit us and kill 100-200 million...Guess what happens in November? Voters will blame Biden big time, then we lose the House and Senate, and Trump wins without even needing to cheat in 2024.

[WarGamer]

89. if Russia responds with 500-1000 nukes...

There's no need to worry about a Congress or elections.

And the remaining "electorate" would be sick or dying or living underground eating MRE's

The whole nuclear winter thing.

[peggysue2]

98. I think we're getting there

Use of chemical weapons or a tactical nuke strike will be the end of the ballgame. President Biden referred to the war as a genocide which also moves the awareness forward by naming it for what it is. There are rumors that Russian forces may have tested out a small chemical experiment in the last couple days. If that's a prelude to something bigger, we may see NATO ratchet up support in the skies, either by closing the airspace or giving the Ukrainians the planes they want and need.

Very dicey at the moment but there is a tipping point which we seem to be approaching.

Buckle up!