General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsIf you wanted to spend $1.6 trillion to help the American people, which of these would you choose?
1) Unemployment insurance for the next 20 years
2) The Earned Income Tax Credit (for poor working families) for 20 years (+ $250B left over)
3) Food stamps for 20 years (+ $300B left over)
4) Temporary Assistance to Need Families ("welfare"
for 60 years
or
5) Giving an average of $25,000 each to about 12% of the population-- a group that already has above average income, is better educated, and disproportionately white compared with the general population.
For better or worse, the last one is what student loan cancellation will do. It would be an enormous transfer of wealth by the federal government, and its beneficiaries would be people who already make more money on average than the average citizen. Further, from a political point of view, it would almost certainly damage the Democratic brand even more among the working class (defined as those without college degrees).
I guess my point is that there are arguments against cancelling student loans that have nothing to do with fairness or jealousy. With that amount of money, we can do a lot of things that many of us might consider to be more worthwhile.
Source:
https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-front/2021/02/12/putting-student-loan-forgiveness-in-perspective-how-costly-is-it-and-who-benefits/
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mahatmakanejeeves
(69,838 posts)Kids everywhere would have access to high speed internet. Well, kids whose families had laptops, but maybe if there was some money left over, we could hand over a few laptops too.
KPN
(17,376 posts)list of choices? Or subsidies to corporations? Or tax cuts enacted since the 1980s?
This is a false set of choices when you limit it to programs that directly serve individuals or what can generally be classified as welfare economics.
albacore
(2,747 posts)Kaleva
(40,365 posts)Finland and Canada are two of the latest nations to pick the F-35. Makes one wonder why so many nations are skipping over the Saab JAS 39 Gripen, the Dassault Rafale, The Eurofighter, the F/A-18E in favor of the F-35?
albacore
(2,747 posts)When Defense News says there are problems, I listen.
https://www.defensenews.com/smr/hidden-troubles-f35/
Kaleva
(40,365 posts)Your comment:
" The cost of the flying turkey F-35 is about $1.6Trillion. Can't fly, can't fight."
No where in the article you provided a link to does it say the F35 can't fly or fight.
There is this more recent article at Defense News:
"NATO planners put the F-35 front and center in European nuclear deterrence"
"WASHINGTON — Following Germany’s decision to buy a fleet of F-35s, NATO planners have begun updating the alliance’s nuclear sharing mechanics to account for the jet’s next-gen capabilities, a key NATO official said this week.
“We’re moving fast and furiously towards F-35 modernization and incorporating those into our planning and into our exercising and things like that as those capabilities come online,” said Jessica Cox, director of the NATO nuclear policy directorate in Brussels.
“By the end of the decade, most if not all of our allies will have transitioned,” she added, speaking during an online discussion of the Advanced Nuclear Weapons Alliance Deterrence Center, a Washington-based think tank."
https://www.defensenews.com/global/europe/2022/04/13/nato-planners-put-the-f-35-front-and-center-in-european-nuclear-deterrence/
Despite its issues and protracted development, the F-35 is a game changer and no other aircraft in the world can compete with it.
albacore
(2,747 posts)
Effete Snob
(8,387 posts)Who has proposed doing 5 and getting rid of 1-4?
mwooldri
(10,818 posts)1. Student loans should be index linked, i.e. to headline inflation rate. Or Federal Reserve standard rate, whichever is lower.
2. Student loans should all be forgiven after 25 years. Tax free.
3. Only repayment plan should be X % above poverty wages.
If there should be any forgiveness going on it would be with past interest paid. Wifey borrowed $25k, paid $40 and owes about $75k. Fortunately all loans got consolidated into a federal loan many years back and she now works for a non profit, so worst case scenario she could see relief in 7 years.
Buckeyeblue
(6,351 posts)Currently it's just the interest that's tax deductible.
JT45242
(4,043 posts)The group with the worst effects of student loan debt is often the nontraditional BIPOC students who were targeted by for profit colleges.
They have lower graduation rates, lower earnings, and higher default rates than students from state universities or private nonprofit colleges. There are a lot of these people.
Yes, doctors and others with huge graduate school loans have a lot of debt and more earning power. So, don't forgive graduate school debt.
But we could easily do a both/and approach.
Forgive up to $25,000 UNDERGRADUATE debt for all borrowers. That would benefit a lot of people. This is also very close to the median debt for people who attend a state university, so is easily defensible.
Then you could still do some mix of child tax credit, lowering medicare to age 60, increased unemployment, or something else from your list.
Total forgiveness of ALL student loan debt is not a good idea. But this is not an either/or problem so it requires a both/and solution.
pecosbob
(8,385 posts)Maine Abu El Banat
(3,537 posts)It's the silver bullet to ending poverty.
Budi
(15,325 posts)Educate the grades with the best we can provide for future thinkers & doers.
That is the best investment & one that is seriously lacking.
leftstreet
(40,666 posts)Just take a little bit from the military...
WarGamer
(18,613 posts)Billions in gear being sent to Ukraine.
Shermann
(9,062 posts)..ets of the working poor. 
SmallFry
(349 posts)
Tree Lady
(13,282 posts)And get rid of for profit medical and dental.
WarGamer
(18,613 posts)inthewind21
(4,616 posts)Working poor and retired. Well, what's the definition of working poor? And is there any criteria to retired? My dad is retired, he collects 3 pensions and his SS and has several investment accounts. But, he is retired.
WarGamer
(18,613 posts)better?
Kaleva
(40,365 posts)
I_UndergroundPanther
(13,369 posts)All corporate welfare. All monies from that and earmarked pork projects would go to 1through 5. And student loans forgiven.
All college made public.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)Spider Jerusalem
(21,786 posts)
Emile
(42,281 posts)SmallFry
(349 posts)Grand gestures for political points while allowing the rot to fester.
You put forward a good argument. I don’t think things are simply comparable, as you have done. That said, we need to address the rot, not link policy to election cycles.
Raine
(31,175 posts)inthewind21
(4,616 posts)Teaching kids trades in high school again. When I was in HS, there were options to take programming, cosmetology, culinary, auto shop, welding, and carpentry in HS. You had to keep a c average or above and the fees for the classes were about 200 bucks. Now to get any of those certifications it's 20K at a private trade school.