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Nevilledog

(55,082 posts)
Sun Apr 17, 2022, 11:25 AM Apr 2022

Roberts Has Lost Control of the Supreme Court





https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/13/opinion/john-roberts-supreme-court.html

No paywall
https://archive.ph/YXbF4

*snip*

But far more than ever before, the court is using procedural orders on applications for emergency relief while appeals work their way through the courts to resolve disputes affecting the lives of millions of Americans — whether in blocking a rule from the Occupational Safety and Health Administration on a vaccination mandate for large employers, refusing to block Texas’ ban on most abortions after six weeks or putting back into effect congressional district maps that two Alabama lower courts struck down as violating the Voting Rights Act.

Time and again, the justices are ordering lower courts to treat these decisions as precedents — even when, as in last week’s ruling, the order includes no analysis to apply to other cases, which often makes the precedent difficult for lower courts to apply.

Unsurprisingly, these rulings have provoked increasingly strident dissents from the court’s liberal justices. Last September, when the justices refused, by a 5-to-4 vote, to halt the patently unconstitutional Texas abortion law, Justice Kagan criticized the majority not just for the substance of its ruling but also for what that ruling said about the shadow docket. She wrote, “The majority’s decision is emblematic of too much of this court’s shadow-docket decision making — which every day becomes more unreasoned, inconsistent and impossible to defend.”

Last week, by freezing a district court injunction despite a lack of evidence that it was harming the complaining states, the majority once again defied the requirements for the very emergency relief they granted. Justice Kagan wrote that that renders the court’s “emergency docket not for emergencies at all” but rather “only another place for merits determinations — except made without full briefing and argument.” In other words, the principal justification for shadow docket orders — the need to intervene early in litigation to prevent a party from suffering irreversible harm while the appeal unfolded — was nowhere to be found.

*snip*
69 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Roberts Has Lost Control of the Supreme Court (Original Post) Nevilledog Apr 2022 OP
What could be better in an autocracy? gab13by13 Apr 2022 #1
✔️ ✔️ ✔️ ✔️ ✔️ n/t msfiddlestix Apr 2022 #65
I wonder if he has considered retirement. lamp_shade Apr 2022 #2
If only! ShazzieB Apr 2022 #23
I guess it depends on how disillusioned he is with how poorly the court is functioning. lamp_shade Apr 2022 #31
1+ keithbvadu2 Apr 2022 #3
The so called "Roberts court" was always garbage. It was Scalia's Carlitos Brigante Apr 2022 #4
That's Rebl2 Apr 2022 #7
Bush picked Roberts Mz Pip Apr 2022 #16
Which is one reason why Republicans hate Bush Polybius Apr 2022 #59
Whoever is POTUS at the time of the death or retirement of the Chief Justice nominates Celerity Apr 2022 #17
The President makes the selection when the Chief retires fescuerescue Apr 2022 #26
The sitting President would choose the head of the Supreme Court I believe ........ LenaBaby61 Apr 2022 #45
Nail on the head. zentrum Apr 2022 #30
+1 CrispyQ Apr 2022 #5
Right?! Meanwhile, more and more I hear Repuq candidates saying they will stand up to "the radical KPN Apr 2022 #8
I think the old guard democrats CrispyQ Apr 2022 #12
THIS 👆🏻👆🏻👆🏻 LenaBaby61 Apr 2022 #46
Exactly mountain grammy Apr 2022 #29
I NEVER call Republicans "conservatives." DFW Apr 2022 #36
+1000 The Inquisition is a good reference point! FakeNoose Apr 2022 #40
Considering the number of Republican Catholics on the Court DFW Apr 2022 #44
Wasn't the administration pursuing a review of the options regarding SCOTUS reform? What happened KPN Apr 2022 #6
Congress sets the size of the court dpibel Apr 2022 #49
He was going to set up a commission. It never happened. lagomorph777 Apr 2022 #68
Republicans have destroyed all three branches of constitutional governance. Thunderbeast Apr 2022 #9
Perfectly stated. -nt CrispyQ Apr 2022 #14
Plus the state legislatures, executives, and courts, who are often even even more Celerity Apr 2022 #18
THIS 👆🏻👆🏻👆🏻 LenaBaby61 Apr 2022 #47
+1 Most accurate and comprehensive 6 sentences this year bucolic_frolic Apr 2022 #51
Shame we don't have a system in place KS Toronado Apr 2022 #10
The nail in that coffin was Conehead. She's a miserable Federalist Society PatrickforB Apr 2022 #11
Kagan was never a judge before fescuerescue Apr 2022 #27
I think Patrick meant Coney Barrett. lamp_shade Apr 2022 #32
I did indeed. n/t PatrickforB Apr 2022 #56
I think they were talking about Amy "Conehead" Barrett Wednesdays Apr 2022 #34
Ah ok. the "no courtroom experience" comment confused me. fescuerescue Apr 2022 #62
Uh...that's Amy Coney (Conehead) Barrett. PatrickforB Apr 2022 #55
Thanks. Sometimes the nicknames get a little confusing here fescuerescue Apr 2022 #63
Well, and I learned something new. I did not know Kagan had no courtroom PatrickforB Apr 2022 #64
Remember they are working to suppress and undermine our votes Big Blue Marble Apr 2022 #28
Oh, the shadow docket. Is the Reich legislating from the bench? paleotn Apr 2022 #13
In their lexicon, being a hypocrite is on a par with being a good xian. erronis Apr 2022 #20
Ah! How soon I forget! paleotn Apr 2022 #21
Remember, though NewJeffCT Apr 2022 #35
Shows how important the culture wars are to the GOP andym Apr 2022 #15
This message was self-deleted by its author Chin music Apr 2022 #19
The conservative wars against liberal culture are more than just a pretext, they are the fuel andym Apr 2022 #57
This message was self-deleted by its author Chin music Apr 2022 #58
He never struck me as anything but a weakling, anyway. calimary Apr 2022 #22
I used to think Roberts cared. I'm not sure he does. Buckeyeblue Apr 2022 #24
Robert's is a Federalist. He can't resign, because he OWES too many people ..... LenaBaby61 Apr 2022 #48
True. It would like a jahova witness leaving the church Buckeyeblue Apr 2022 #52
And worse 👀 LenaBaby61 Apr 2022 #54
Do Chief Justices EVER really have control? fescuerescue Apr 2022 #25
The only "control" the CJ is over the assignment of the lead opinion onenote Apr 2022 #53
One of Trump's successes in Putin's bid to destroy the US Turbineguy Apr 2022 #33
"legislating from the bench" Cosmocat Apr 2022 #37
Too bad there are no solutions in the US Constitution. Farmer-Rick Apr 2022 #38
Justice? We don' need no stinkin' justice! jaxexpat Apr 2022 #39
A Real Tragedy Of Circumstance colsohlibgal Apr 2022 #41
So what is he going to do about it? Generic Brad Apr 2022 #42
IMO the history books will blame "the Robert's Court" for weakening the Constitutional protections.. usaf-vet Apr 2022 #43
3 stolen seats, Alito & Thomas unable to reason bucolic_frolic Apr 2022 #50
About 6 weeks to go. roamer65 Apr 2022 #60
What control does the Chief Justice have over the Court? Kaleva Apr 2022 #61
He has duties, but he's a passive manager who doesn't make personnel decisions bucolic_frolic Apr 2022 #69
"Lost control"? Sounds more like he is an autocrat. lagomorph777 Apr 2022 #66
Opinion: The Supreme Court isn't well. The only hope for a cure is more justices. BeckyDem Apr 2022 #67

gab13by13

(32,323 posts)
1. What could be better in an autocracy?
Sun Apr 17, 2022, 12:02 PM
Apr 2022

A partisan, fascist Supreme Court to give the appearance of justice.

Alito is worse than Thomas and he wants to be Chief Justice.

lamp_shade

(15,482 posts)
31. I guess it depends on how disillusioned he is with how poorly the court is functioning.
Sun Apr 17, 2022, 01:35 PM
Apr 2022

Mz Pip

(28,455 posts)
16. Bush picked Roberts
Sun Apr 17, 2022, 12:36 PM
Apr 2022

Scalia was already on the court when Renquist died. Speculation was Scalia would get Chief Justice but Bush picked Roberts.

Polybius

(21,901 posts)
59. Which is one reason why Republicans hate Bush
Sun Apr 17, 2022, 11:59 PM
Apr 2022

Personally, I think the Chief Justice should be an Associate Justice first.

Celerity

(54,409 posts)
17. Whoever is POTUS at the time of the death or retirement of the Chief Justice nominates
Sun Apr 17, 2022, 12:38 PM
Apr 2022

the new one. Even if the nominee is already in the SCOTUS, they have to be confirmed by the Senate, and then their Associate Justice slot is filled by a new person, who always must be confirmed by the Senate.

CrispyQ

(40,970 posts)
5. +1
Sun Apr 17, 2022, 12:17 PM
Apr 2022
It’s understandable, then, why Chief Justice Roberts would finally speak out. No one better understands the stakes for the court’s credibility — and institutional viability. If even his objections can’t persuade the other conservatives to stop abusing the shadow docket, then that may signal the willingness of the court’s conservative majority to go even further in the future and to use the shadow docket to resolve even more significant and contentious constitutional questions.


Is there any question they're going to do this? They're going to shove all their white, patriarchal, Christian bullshit down our throats. I hate how everyone continues to call republicans conservatives when they are extremists.

KPN

(17,377 posts)
8. Right?! Meanwhile, more and more I hear Repuq candidates saying they will stand up to "the radical
Sun Apr 17, 2022, 12:22 PM
Apr 2022

left Democrats who want to destroy our country" in their TV ads. Its a frigging Repuq talking point. Hopefully at least we are still not referring to "our friends on the other side of the aisle" -- but I ell you, sometimes I gotta wonder.

CrispyQ

(40,970 posts)
12. I think the old guard democrats
Sun Apr 17, 2022, 12:32 PM
Apr 2022

have been slow to recognize that their colleagues across the aisle are enablers of fascism. I kind of understand, cuz I have issues myself with family & friends who still identify as republican. But it's just so obvious that republican politicians have zero ethics or integrity. They've thrown the rule book in the trash. Once in awhile a few will step out & do the right thing, like the few who voted for Judge Jackson, but for the most part every one is a vile mess.

DFW

(60,186 posts)
36. I NEVER call Republicans "conservatives."
Sun Apr 17, 2022, 01:51 PM
Apr 2022

They are anything BUT conservative. "Conservative" implies given to caution, deliberation before acting, risk-averse, and a healthy respect for precedent. This is the very opposite of the wild-eyed radicals of the Trump three plus Alito and Thomas. They are no conservative bloc. They are more like fanatic knights errant of the Spanish Inquisition.

DFW

(60,186 posts)
44. Considering the number of Republican Catholics on the Court
Sun Apr 17, 2022, 03:18 PM
Apr 2022

It‘s not an entirely unfair referencek

KPN

(17,377 posts)
6. Wasn't the administration pursuing a review of the options regarding SCOTUS reform? What happened
Sun Apr 17, 2022, 12:18 PM
Apr 2022

to that? Isn't it time to do something before it is too late to do something in that regard? I don't know, but there certainly seems to be some sentiment that the President has some leeway regarding the size of the court. If so, maybe that leeway sould be used -- again before it is too late.

Just sayin' ...

dpibel

(3,944 posts)
49. Congress sets the size of the court
Sun Apr 17, 2022, 06:07 PM
Apr 2022

Obvs., presidents have considerable lobbying power.

But they have no authority to change the composition of the court.

lagomorph777

(30,613 posts)
68. He was going to set up a commission. It never happened.
Mon Apr 18, 2022, 10:28 AM
Apr 2022

Any such commission would likely have recommended expanding the court. Maybe Biden decided Congress would never go along. Still, it would be good to have that recommendation out there publicly.

Thunderbeast

(3,819 posts)
9. Republicans have destroyed all three branches of constitutional governance.
Sun Apr 17, 2022, 12:22 PM
Apr 2022

Abuse of power in the executive.

Abuse of the Filibuster and judicial confirmations in the legislative branch.

Railroading ideological opinions without debate in the Supreme Court.

There is no more "good faith" lens used by any of our leaders.

Very sad to see what we've lost.

Celerity

(54,409 posts)
18. Plus the state legislatures, executives, and courts, who are often even even more
Sun Apr 17, 2022, 12:40 PM
Apr 2022

batshit cray christofascist RWNJ's.

bucolic_frolic

(55,141 posts)
51. +1 Most accurate and comprehensive 6 sentences this year
Sun Apr 17, 2022, 06:22 PM
Apr 2022

Ideology is driving us over a cliff. No one knows what to do about it. It's for the benefit of some select group. They didn't do this all for nothing.

KS Toronado

(23,727 posts)
10. Shame we don't have a system in place
Sun Apr 17, 2022, 12:22 PM
Apr 2022

where the American Bar Assn. could give Judges a passing or failing grade every year,
and if failing they lose their seat on the S. C.

PatrickforB

(15,426 posts)
11. The nail in that coffin was Conehead. She's a miserable Federalist Society
Sun Apr 17, 2022, 12:28 PM
Apr 2022

product that has absolutely NO courtroom experience.

And then Kegger Kav.

When they overturn Roe, maybe people will begin to VOTE Democrats in.

fescuerescue

(4,475 posts)
27. Kagan was never a judge before
Sun Apr 17, 2022, 01:25 PM
Apr 2022

But I wouldn't call her a Conehead. Good lord.

She's on our side.

fescuerescue

(4,475 posts)
62. Ah ok. the "no courtroom experience" comment confused me.
Mon Apr 18, 2022, 09:04 AM
Apr 2022

It actually only applies to Kagan.

Nonetheless, she's probably the best judge on the bench right now.

fescuerescue

(4,475 posts)
63. Thanks. Sometimes the nicknames get a little confusing here
Mon Apr 18, 2022, 09:06 AM
Apr 2022

I thought maybe she did mean Barrett. But the only judge without prior courtroom experience is Kagan. Barrett actually does have a little bit. Hence my confusion.

Kagan is a fantastic SC justice though. IMO probably the best one practicing right now.

PatrickforB

(15,426 posts)
64. Well, and I learned something new. I did not know Kagan had no courtroom
Mon Apr 18, 2022, 10:15 AM
Apr 2022

experience.

I suppose the gist of what I meant to say, nicknames and mistakes aside, is that we need justices who will rule objectively on the law and not according to some ideology, such as that put forward by the Federalist Society.

Roe, for instance, was decided on privacy.

But I have been troubled by a number of rulings that come straight from the neoliberal (supply-side tax cuts for corporatons, privatize, deregulate and gut government programs) playbook.

Citizens United, gutting the voting rights act, things like that hurt us no end.

Big Blue Marble

(5,691 posts)
28. Remember they are working to suppress and undermine our votes
Sun Apr 17, 2022, 01:30 PM
Apr 2022

to corner us in both directions, fascism at work.

paleotn

(22,218 posts)
13. Oh, the shadow docket. Is the Reich legislating from the bench?
Sun Apr 17, 2022, 12:33 PM
Apr 2022

Something they've whined and boohooed about since Brown v Board? Surely not. Fucking hypocrites.

erronis

(23,882 posts)
20. In their lexicon, being a hypocrite is on a par with being a good xian.
Sun Apr 17, 2022, 12:43 PM
Apr 2022

From Scripture: It's the end that counts, not the means.

andym

(6,066 posts)
15. Shows how important the culture wars are to the GOP
Sun Apr 17, 2022, 12:35 PM
Apr 2022

Placing those conservative justices to overturn Roe V Wade and set a conservative agenda as activist judges was key to keep some Americans identifying as Republicans.

Response to andym (Reply #15)

andym

(6,066 posts)
57. The conservative wars against liberal culture are more than just a pretext, they are the fuel
Sun Apr 17, 2022, 09:58 PM
Apr 2022

being used by right wingers internationally in combination with nationalism to install neo-fascists and strongmen and to attempt to turn back the clock culturally. Examples include Orban in Hungary who calls himself an "illiberal" and a group of illiberal political leaders in Poland. The culture warriors here and abroad are appealing to traditionalism against a sea of change as a way to sway voters and it appears that many voters do care about this kind of ideology.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jun/24/revolt-against-liberalism-eastern-europe-poland-hungary-nativist-politics

Response to andym (Reply #57)

calimary

(90,021 posts)
22. He never struck me as anything but a weakling, anyway.
Sun Apr 17, 2022, 12:50 PM
Apr 2022

One who always wanted to avoid making waves. He’s never impressed me.

Some “legacy” YOU’VE built for yourself, Roberts. The Chief Justice Most Likely To Get Rolled Over.

Buckeyeblue

(6,352 posts)
24. I used to think Roberts cared. I'm not sure he does.
Sun Apr 17, 2022, 01:18 PM
Apr 2022

If he cared, he would be more vocal about what the Facist-5 are doing. A strongly worded opinion seems more like he is giving himself cover than anything else.

He could resign. The Facist-5 would still be in the majority...but only by a heartbeat.

He's not going to resign though.

LenaBaby61

(6,991 posts)
48. Robert's is a Federalist. He can't resign, because he OWES too many people .....
Sun Apr 17, 2022, 04:38 PM
Apr 2022

with reich-winged/racist, nation-destroying, deep dark money pockets too many favors. Hell, he's a Federalist himself, so he must not be too upset--maybe at some things--but not upset enough to cross his fellow Federalist Society members.

fescuerescue

(4,475 posts)
25. Do Chief Justices EVER really have control?
Sun Apr 17, 2022, 01:21 PM
Apr 2022

It's 9 people making individuals decisions with equal votes.

It's not like he can fire anyone, cut their pay or direct their opinions.

onenote

(46,142 posts)
53. The only "control" the CJ is over the assignment of the lead opinion
Sun Apr 17, 2022, 06:35 PM
Apr 2022

when the CJ is in the majority.

He still has that control but if the Court splits 5-4 with Roberts in the minority and Thomas, Kavanaugh, Gorsuch, Alito, and Barrett in the majority, then Thomas assigns the opinion.

Turbineguy

(40,076 posts)
33. One of Trump's successes in Putin's bid to destroy the US
Sun Apr 17, 2022, 01:41 PM
Apr 2022

as long as it lasts.

Then it will take years to claw back

Farmer-Rick

(12,667 posts)
38. Too bad there are no solutions in the US Constitution.
Sun Apr 17, 2022, 01:54 PM
Apr 2022

Oh wait......Impeachment, pay and make up of the court are all Congress's tools. They need to start using them. There use to be only 6 justices, we need to add more.

Do you think if GOPers wanted more justices on the court to destroy a liberal majority they wouldn't do it? Of course they would ina heart beat.

Do you think TFG wouldn't have done it? I'm surprised they didn't impeach the few liberals on the court before TFG got voted out a 2nd time.

colsohlibgal

(5,276 posts)
41. A Real Tragedy Of Circumstance
Sun Apr 17, 2022, 02:18 PM
Apr 2022

Mainly that, aided by the crooked contradiction of McConnell, a sham dirty person like Trump appointing 3 Supremes. Of course fate played a part as well with the Notorious RBG dying just in time for the Wingnuts.



Generic Brad

(14,374 posts)
42. So what is he going to do about it?
Sun Apr 17, 2022, 02:23 PM
Apr 2022

Is he going to ride that reputation of flaccid ineffectiveness to the grave? Because that appears to be the course of inaction he has resigned himself to.

usaf-vet

(7,811 posts)
43. IMO the history books will blame "the Robert's Court" for weakening the Constitutional protections..
Sun Apr 17, 2022, 02:34 PM
Apr 2022

.... we all had a right to.

Piece by piece, ruling by rulings.

bucolic_frolic

(55,141 posts)
50. 3 stolen seats, Alito & Thomas unable to reason
Sun Apr 17, 2022, 06:15 PM
Apr 2022

There you have it. We have rule by ideology and not by law. The Constitution has been gamed, they found obscure holes that didn't exist and whacked them open with stupidity. I don't know where we go from here.

Kaleva

(40,365 posts)
61. What control does the Chief Justice have over the Court?
Mon Apr 18, 2022, 04:37 AM
Apr 2022

"The Chief Justice is the highest judicial official in the country. He acts as the Chief Administrative Officer for the Federal Courts. He is responsible for appointing the director of the Administrative Office of the United States Courts. The Chief Justice of the Supreme Court serves as the spokesperson of the judicial branch.
The Chief Justice of the Supreme Court leads the business of the Supreme Court, and presides over all arguments in the Court.
The Chief Justice of the Supreme Court is responsible for determining who will write the official opinion of the Court. The Chief Justice sets the agenda of the Court.
If the President is facing impeachment, the Chief Justice presides over the trial. The Chief Justice is responsible for administering the oath of office to the President of the United States of America at his inauguration."

https://supreme-court.laws.com/supreme-court/chief-justice-of-the-supreme-court

bucolic_frolic

(55,141 posts)
69. He has duties, but he's a passive manager who doesn't make personnel decisions
Mon Apr 18, 2022, 11:27 AM
Apr 2022

and his power is shared with 8 other decision makers, plus the lower courts feed rulings up the ladder.

So yes, he doesn't really have that much power. He sets tone, but it's as if he's responsible for many things beyond his control.

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