General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThe "mask" has been a very divisive issue.
From the very beginning of the pandemic, a small minority believed the "mask" was an imposition upon their freedom. Fortunately, the majority followed the advice of the scientists and the CDC to prevent the pandemic from spreading further.
Although the Covid is still with us, it is not as deadly as it was in the beginning. Fewer and fewer people are being hospitalized for it. Most are now ready to accept it as a seasonal virus, much like the flu.
Is it finally time to do away with mask mandates? And leave it to the discretion of the individual whether or not they choose to wear one?
And finally do away with one of the major issues dividing this nation?
Responsible people did what had to be done. They tried to prevent themselves and others from catching the deadly virus. They followed the advice of experts.
If some wish to see doing away with masks as some sort of victory, after all these months, then let them have their victory. Almost a million lives will not be celebrating.
katmondoo
(6,524 posts)CurtEastPoint
(20,025 posts)abqtommy
(14,118 posts)and it's proven to be effective. A lot of people here in Albuquerque still wear masks in
public. Recently when I was shopping at The Big Box store a young woman made the
following sarcastic remark to me: "Nice Mask". I replied "Where's yours?". She said
"I'm vaccinated".
"Me too, but something worse is coming" I told her as I walked away. I've been
planning to survive since early 2020. So far so good.
phylny
(8,818 posts)Do I know you? with a black stare. And wait. If they answer No, I would respond, Well, all right then and be on my way.
Captain Zero
(8,905 posts)Maybe she genuinely liked it?
If not then she's probably not vaccinated either.
abqtommy
(14,118 posts)CrackityJones75
(2,403 posts)dalton99a
(94,138 posts)70sEraVet
(5,482 posts)like if someone else is wearing one and I have to be in close contact.
But I live in a rural area and Im rarely around any large crowds (still don't go out to eat).
Blues Heron
(8,838 posts)we are in the first throes of another wave. Masks are an important tool to block transmission. Nothing good about this idiotic decision.
llmart
(17,623 posts)Are those hospitalizations mostly unvaccinated people?
If so, then that's to be expected. If people still choose to be unvaccinated and they pay the price for that, then I'm OK with it.
Blues Heron
(8,838 posts)Its not OK to kill them via selfishness.
CrackityJones75
(2,403 posts)IF they are unvaccinated they are the selfish ones. Unless they cannot vax fir some reason. But not vaxxing and expecting the rest of the country to do extra to protect them and then chastise them for it . Screw that.
Blues Heron
(8,838 posts)its not just antivaxxers you know. Spreading this disease because you cant be bothered to wear a scrap of paper over you mouth is the height of selfishness.
Igirl
(80 posts)Have plenty of beds. They are no longer hiring travel nurses. If the goal was to not overwhelm hospitals, the goal was met months ago. The mask mandate is a small percentage difference, not a game changer.
AlexSFCA
(6,319 posts)Due to availability of effective vaccines, highly protective N95 masks and effective covid treatments, there is no reason to mandate masks, no need to continue division. I dont think its a winning message for dems to advocate for mask mandates. I will continue to wear N95 on planes and in crowded indoor spaces, and indefinitely when going to a doctor (covid is not the only bug).
Covid wont go away in our lifetime.
kentuck
(115,407 posts)It is a losing political issue, according to the polls, I have heard.
Blues Heron
(8,838 posts)This should be based on the epidemiology - and we are in the first stages of a wave right now. Getting rid of the mask mandate will only make things worse.
CrackityJones75
(2,403 posts)If we lose elections over mask mandates then there wont be any mask mandates anyway. I fail to see how we are going to make people wear masks.
People will say Hospitalizations are up to what extent? Who is being hospitalized? The vaxxed? What percentage? Is that up in comparison to a low point? This disease is here to stay. It is never going to go away completely. Ever. Just like all other sorts of viruses that have spikes and hospitalizations. We have tools to try to curb those things and the people that want to use them should absolutely do so and have relatively low fear about it being serious for them.
But forcing people to do things is a losing political strategy that in the end is counter to what people want anyway. Get vaxxed, mask when appropriate, and lets try to hold on to some elected seats.
Blues Heron
(8,838 posts)CrackityJones75
(2,403 posts)I dont think I am being cynical. I think I am being realistic.
dpibel
(3,944 posts)Last edited Wed Apr 20, 2022, 04:23 PM - Edit history (1)
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/health/majority-of-americans-support-mask-mandates-for-travel-ap-poll-findsFARGO, N.D. (AP) A majority of Americans continue to support a mask requirement for people traveling on airplanes and other shared transportation, a new poll finds. A ruling by a federal judge has put the governments transportation mask mandate on hold.
The poll by The Associated Press-NORC Center for Public Affairs Research finds that despite opposition to that requirement that included verbal abuse and physical violence against flight attendants, 56 percent of Americans favor requiring people on planes, trains and public transportation to wear masks, compared with 24 percent opposed and 20 percent who say theyre neither in favor nor opposed.
Don't believe there's any way to spin 24% as a majority.
This is a good illustration of the fact that we're now in the realm of governance by the loud, violent minority.
NotTodayPutin
(86 posts)When that reporter tried a gotcha!
phylny
(8,818 posts)and the immunocompromised and I wear my mask. I don't give a f*** what anyone else thinks.
AlexSFCA
(6,319 posts)FYI. WHO does not recommend children under 5 to wear masks. US is nearly an outlier requiring kids in daycare to masks up indoors and outdoors, majority wear cloth masks which do not at all protect from omicron and effectively do more damage by possibly impacting early development (2+ years of continuous masking during critical speech development phase). Please do not weaponize immunocompromised people, they know exactly what they need to do - better than anyone.
Support broad vaccine mandates, strating with young kids, not indefinite and indiscriminate mask mandate for all.
Weaponize?
And nowhere in my statement did I say masks should be mandated, did I?
Emile
(42,293 posts)I am fully vaccinated, but I still wear one to make a political statement and to stay safe!
mnhtnbb
(33,349 posts)The required negative COVID ( antigen) test 24 hours before flight was a joke. The health care worker who came to my hotel to administer the test brought a completed, signed certificate reporting a negative result. She didn't wait the required 15 minutes to read the test before she gave me the certificate and told me I could go.
Makes me wonder how many people flying into the US are really negative for COVID.
I will be wearing my mask on the planes and in Miami, where I change planes.
I will continue to wear a mask in public places where I don't know the people and on public transportation. I have three risk factors and have been so careful for so long. I don't want to become complacent.
Stinky The Clown
(68,952 posts). . . . . said the virus would go away / was a hoax / was Chinese / was ANYTHING but real *and* ignored by TFG. As such, people with masks were seen as dear leader opposition and therefore LIBS. Since owning the libs was huge to them, it was a great pro-TFG rallying point. It metastasized from there and took on a life of its own.
Shrek
(4,428 posts)I don't remember the last time I wore one outside of air travel or medical facilities.
The general attitude is live and let live. It's up to the individual and nobody gets hassled for wearing or not wearing a mask.
madville
(7,847 posts)Saw a lady with one on in Walgreens this morning and thats probably the first time Ive seen one in public in a couple of weeks. My employer has 1100 folks here, we havent had anyone out of work with it in over a month, with allergy/pollen season I think most just quit getting tested if they have mild symptoms.
Model35mech
(2,047 posts)Masks mandates should probably come and go, and come and go, and come and go, as the level of community transmission rises and falls with the rising and falling 'waves' of disease incidence and the pathogenic character of those waves.
Looking at two years of data it's clear that the wavelength between the peaks of occurrence is something roughly around 4 months.
Some media desire to tells us there is a failure in public health policy when policies are repeatedly reversed, but it's really a matter following changing incidence.
Unfortunately, parents with children need jobs, business needs customers, and so parents would like a permanent policy that gives them a place to put their kids in the day, and businesses need a permanent policy that facilitates business planning and operations.
bluestarone
(22,179 posts)I feel for him. I'm 100% for wearing masks. I feel our CDC has caused LOTS of problems with their confusing answers. (which do not help) I also feel that it IS a definite vote killer come Nov. A BID catch 22 for sure. I DON'T have an answer for this. I guess maybe it's best, at this time to allow people to decide for themselves? I WILL wear my mask when i'm shopping with large amounts of people.
Model35mech
(2,047 posts)Fauci, and company, knew covid was an airborne virus. Fauci also knew there were not enough masks available to keep health care workers in PPE.
So he and others who said we didn't need masks decieved us. Video from all over the world showed health workers in masks. The need for masks was obvious. But Fauci et al told us we didn't need them, and blabbered on about hand-washing and personal-distancing.
And as the pandemic grew, that deception-which was done in the interest of protecting clinical staff from PPE shortages was outed.
Being lied, even if the cause was good, pissed people off. It made them skeptical of all manner of later communication. Including that the incidence rate of this pandemic rises and falls on about a 3.5 to 4.5 month basis. That is easy to see in graphic visualizations such as graphs of 2 years of incidence data---like those on the NYT Covid page https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/us/covid-cases.html
It's pretty obvious that there is a non-season related periodicity between "waves". When the waves are growing and cresting, it makes sense to mask, when the waves have receded and infection rates are in the trough masking is not so important.
Masking rules should probably reflect this waxing and waning of cases. But Americans can't get their heads around that. But its as simple as wearing rain-gear when it rains and going without it when the weather is clear.
Americans want one policy which benefits their (all to often economic) interests. It's hard to deal with school age children without consistent availability of day-cares and schools. It's hard to manage and operate businesses without consistent rules on freedom of workers and customers to work and shop. Going in and out of mask mandates and lockdowns is disruptive to normal routines
And of course policy comes from government, and when the rules change that shift isn't seen as a reasonable response to change in the 'weather' of the pandemic, it's seen as evidence that the policies of government failed, governments get blamed for complicating individuals lives with rule changes that 'don't work' and that interfere with their desired activities.
My advice is don't worry about what other people may say, make a reasoned decision for yourself. BUY another supply of masks NOW (I've got my new box in the hall closet) so they are available if and when you feel you need to return to wearing them as the rate of new cases climbs in your city/county slips above your personal tolerance of exposure risk.
bluestarone
(22,179 posts)YOU can think your way. I disagree!
treestar
(82,383 posts)shows how many unreasonable people we have in our society.
AntivaxHunters
(3,234 posts)First, HHS & CDC changed how Covid is reported.
This is something which is absolutely horrific and they are ONLY counting Covid cases of people who are hospitalized and being given Paxlovid & Remdesivir. The economy has taken priority over public health & safety. We're living in right wing "herd immunity" hell & many aren't aware of it.
Covid surges are happening RIGHT NOW and while some say "not as deadly", that doesn't tell the whole story because "long haul Covid" is very real. Does having brain damage sound fun? Not to me. How about being on 24/7 oxygen for the rest of your life due to lung damage? No thank you. It's not only about death but the disabilities Covid leaves many with.
These are very scary times right now especially for those who are immunocompromised and those who can't be vaccinated.
The amount of misinformation, gaslighting, & bullshit right now is very real & completely off the charts.
Let's take a look at a few things from doctor's who are on the front lines fighting against Covid along with some statistics.
But first, for those of you who want to know what is really happening, the best source of information I have come across is this Twitter account & their dedicated Twitter list of front line healthcare workers titled "Covid facts from doctor's". This is the real deal & there's no bullshit about it.
Link to tweet
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Initech
(108,783 posts)And by the way well over 1/2 those million lives were hard MAGA voters and Trumpholes, if the r/HermanCainAward is any indication. They would probably be cheerleading this decision.
Raftergirl
(1,856 posts)hospitalized due to serious illness or dying, knows what they need to do by now to protect themselves. Millions and millions of people do not care and many of them never have. I do not care anymore what they do.
There are also excellent antiviral meds, test to treat is up and running all over the country and Evoshield is available to the immunodeficient/compromised.
BumRushDaShow
(169,761 posts)The last Omicron (BA1.xxx) wave between November 2021 - February 2022 blew away all records for numbers of cases and hospitalizations.
Here is a plot of the "hospitalizations" from CDC's website here - https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/covid-data/covidview/index.html

From the above plot where a red line is drawn across the plot to show the (peak) highest values for hospitalizations, how were their "fewer and fewer people being hospitalized" - especially when comparing the earlier waves with the last wave (which was due to the initial Omicron variant)??
By Maria Caspani and Lisa Shumaker
Jan 10 (Reuters) - COVID-19 hospitalizations in the United States reached a record high on Monday, according to a Reuters tally, as a surge in infections caused by the highly contagious Omicron variant strains health systems in several states. There were 132,646 people hospitalized with COVID, surpassing the record of 132,051 set in January last year.
Hospitalizations have increased steadily since late December, doubling in the last three weeks, as Omicron quickly overtook Delta as the dominant version of the virus in the United States. Delaware, Illinois, Maine, Maryland, Missouri, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Puerto Rico, the U.S. Virgin Islands, Vermont, Virginia, Washington D.C., and Wisconsin have reported record levels of hospitalized COVID-19 patients recently, according to the Reuters analysis.
While potentially less severe, health officials have warned that the sheer number of infections caused by the Omicron variant could strain the hospital systems, some of which have already suspended elective procedures as they struggle to handle the surge of patients amid staff shortages.
The seven-day average for new cases has doubled in the last 10 days to 704,000. The United States has averaged over a half a million cases for the last six consecutive days, according to a Reuters tally.
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-breaks-covid-19-hospitalization-record-omicron-surges-2022-01-10/
And it was recently reported when the data from that wave was reviewed, the hospitalizations of children not eligible for a vaccine, increased to some 5 - 7 times more than what was seen during previous variants -
By Carolyn Crist
March 16, 2022 -- The Omicron variant led to higher COVID hospitalizations among children ages 4 and younger in the U.S. -- at a rate that was five times higher than during the peak of the Delta variant, according to a new study released by the CDC. Infants under 6 months had the highest rates of hospitalization, the data showed. Importantly, the CDC noted, this age group isnt yet eligible for COVID-19 vaccination.
Important strategies to prevent COVID-19 among infants and young children include vaccination of currently eligible populations such as pregnant women, family members, and caregivers of infants and young children, the research team wrote. The CDC team analyzed trends in coronavirus hospitalizations among young children who had laboratory-confirmed COVID-19 during hospitalization or in the 14 days before admission. The report is based on data from 99 counties in 14 states.
During the Omicron surge from December 2021 to February 2022, the COVID-19 hospitalization rate peaked at 14.5 hospitalizations per 100,000 children younger than 4 in early January 2022. In comparison, the rate peaked at 2.9 hospitalizations per 100,000 children in September 2021 during the Delta variant surge.
Whats more, monthly intensive care unit admission rates were about 3.5 times higher for young children during the Omicron peak, the data showed. In January, there were 10.6 ICU admissions per 100,000 children younger than 4, compared with 3 admissions per 100,000 children in September. Among the children hospitalized during the Omicron surge, 63% had no medical conditions that increased their risk for severe COVID-19, the CDC researchers wrote.
(snip)
https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20220316/omicron-increased-hospitalizations-children-cdc
The main things really "different" about Omicron was where it tended to attach to start reproducing, and the fact that it came in fast and left fast (at least that variant) and that is because it had evolved the ability to reproduce much much faster than previous variants. I.e., it could take the original "wild type" SARS CoV2 upwards of 10 - 14 days to get going (which was why the earliest quarantine period was 2 weeks). The later variants (Alpha - that was predominate here and Beta, that was predominate in other parts of the world) could go through its cycle within 7 - 10 days. Delta was even faster, getting established within 3 - 5 days. And with Omicron, it was up and running in 2-3 days after infection.
When it came to deaths - THAT is where you saw a difference thanks to the vaccines (plot again from CDC's site - https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/covid-data/covidview/index.html) -

But because Omicron was so much more contagious than any previous variant, there were MORE people infected during that wave, regardless of vaccine status, than in any previous wave (it "broke records" according to W.H.O. and others monitoring it). That then exhibited what they call a "multiplier effect" where "everything" goes up (raw numbers of moderate-severe disease, hospitalizations, and in some cases, deaths) just due to the sheer amount of infections compared to previous waves.