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Sun Apr 24, 2022, 11:38 AM

Can a state make it a MURDER offense if one of its citizens goes out of state for an abortion?

Say Dahlia from Dallas goes to California, has an abortion.... can she be arrested when she returns to Texas? Could a state make such a law?

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Reply Can a state make it a MURDER offense if one of its citizens goes out of state for an abortion? (Original post)
Goodheart Apr 2022 OP
fierywoman Apr 2022 #1
Goodheart Apr 2022 #2
Ocelot II Apr 2022 #3
Hassin Bin Sober Apr 2022 #11
unblock Apr 2022 #4
MineralMan Apr 2022 #5
bluestarone Apr 2022 #8
MineralMan Apr 2022 #9
Grins Apr 2022 #6
malthaussen Apr 2022 #7
Bettie Apr 2022 #10
Diamond_Dog Apr 2022 #13
Bettie Apr 2022 #15
LeftInTX Apr 2022 #12
Bettie Apr 2022 #16
LeftInTX Apr 2022 #17
themaguffin Apr 2022 #14

Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Sun Apr 24, 2022, 11:40 AM

1. How would they know she was pregnant in the first place?

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Response to fierywoman (Reply #1)

Sun Apr 24, 2022, 11:45 AM

2. Snitchers. And sometimes it's obvious.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Sun Apr 24, 2022, 11:46 AM

3. Probably not; such a law would violate the constitutional right to travel.

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Response to Ocelot II (Reply #3)

Sun Apr 24, 2022, 01:02 PM

11. I'm sure Alito, ACB, Thomas, Kavanaugh, Gorsuch, and Roberts will be standing by to...

… protect those rights.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Sun Apr 24, 2022, 11:48 AM

4. Willing to bet a few states will try, or something similar.

I think they can't directly criminalize something that happens in another state. But they can criminalize things in their state that relate to it.

So, transporting someone to another state for the purpose of getting an abortion, that could be criminalized.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Sun Apr 24, 2022, 11:49 AM

5. Seems highly unlikely to me, for many reasons.

First, there's no reason a state would know a woman was pregnant.
Second, there is a long standing principle of freedom to travel.
Third, states are limited in their jurisdictions. They cannot pass laws that are based on what someone does in another state.

Finally, is any state actually planning to do this? I would think not.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #5)

Sun Apr 24, 2022, 12:21 PM

8. Agree, and comment here

Thinking Texas might be the first to try? (we'll see)

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Response to bluestarone (Reply #8)

Sun Apr 24, 2022, 12:31 PM

9. Sure. Texas is doing all sorts of crazy stuff.

So, it might take a stab at such a law.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Sun Apr 24, 2022, 11:50 AM

6. Feeling lucky?

Short answer, no.

But want to bet a red state will try to make that a law? The Reich’s “War on Women” never ends.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Sun Apr 24, 2022, 11:52 AM

7. That's two questions in one.

The fact of democracy is that any legislature can write any damned bill it pleases, and if it gets the votes and the signature of the executive, then it it is law. So, yes, a state could make such a law.

Would it stand up in the courts? That's the second, implicit question. And the fact of that is that a judge can make any damned ruling he pleases, he is a little tyrant in his court. So, if a challenge to such a law went before a judge interested in enforcing it, it would not be reversed. That's why we have an appeals process. The earnest hope is that bad law will not survive the scrutiny of all levels of courts (progressively removed from the jurisdiction in which the law applies), but will at some point be overturned by saner heads. Which is, ultimately, why the US Supreme Court is expected to be apolitical.

There's another implied question here, too: would such a law be created by a State legislature and signed into law? That's a predictive question, so your guess is as good as mine.

-- Mal

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Sun Apr 24, 2022, 12:34 PM

10. I still get hung up on the privacy thing

There is zero proof of any pregnancy or abortion (could have been, for example, a miscarriage) without medical records. Medical records are protected.

Then again, who knows, maybe the courts will decide that women don't have HIPAA rights. A few years ago, I'd have laughed at this idea, but now? Who fucking knows what they will do.

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Response to Bettie (Reply #10)

Sun Apr 24, 2022, 01:06 PM

13. I could be wrong

But I thought some state - Texas? - had tried to make it state law that all pregnancies have to be reported to the state. Of course said pregnancy statistics would have to come from doctors’ offices. Privacy infringement, much? But I wouldn’t put anything past these fascists.

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Response to Diamond_Dog (Reply #13)

Sun Apr 24, 2022, 02:11 PM

15. Neither would I

and the thing this will really do is prevent women from getting prenatal care and miscarriage care, because any miscarriage now will be investigated as a criminal act.

Fuck. They are such assholes.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Sun Apr 24, 2022, 01:03 PM

12. No!

I guess they could try, but I doubt it.

She would need at least be in Texas when she had the abortion.

But who knows.....

Texas does not want to "criminalize" women because they know it will backfire in the voting booth.

The DA/Grand Jury who indicted the woman in Starr County dropped the case cuz, "Duh, there was no such law"

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Response to LeftInTX (Reply #12)

Sun Apr 24, 2022, 02:12 PM

16. Think they'll start investigating

miscarriages? I suspect the answer is "yes" given the woman arrested, though her charges were dropped.

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Response to Bettie (Reply #16)

Sun Apr 24, 2022, 02:15 PM

17. Maybe. It's all about the vote this fall.

If they win big, they'll get worse.
If they don't, they won't push it.

It's all about them staying in power.

Currently there is no law to charge women who have abortions.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Sun Apr 24, 2022, 01:21 PM

14. Well the "crime" would not have happened in their state for one.

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