The Supreme Court ponders the right to pray on the 50-yard line

[sl8]

"And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full.

But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.


https://www.npr.org/2022/04/25/1093116619/the-supreme-court-ponders-the-right-to-pray-on-the-50-yard-line

(6 min. audio at link)

The Supreme Court ponders the right to pray on the 50-yard line

April 25, 2022 5:00 AM ET
Heard on Morning Edition

NINA TOTENBERG

The U.S. Supreme Court jumps back into the culture wars Monday in a case that involves a football coach's asserted right to kneel and pray on the 50-yard line at the conclusion of a public school football game.

Joseph Kennedy, a coach for the Bremerton, Wash., High School Varsity and JV football teams began praying with his players before and after games in 2008. At the end of a game, he would take a knee and say a prayer with his players at midfield.

By the 2015 season, Kennedy was often joined at the 50-yard line as well by players from the opposing team. Indeed, it was an approving comment by an opposing coach that finally alerted school district officials to the practice.

The school orders Kennedy to stop

That prompted the athletic director, and later the superintendent, to order the coaching staff to stop praying with students. Kennedy stopped his locker room prayers completely, and for a least one game left the home field, returning later when the crowds had gone, to pay by himself on the 50-yard line.

[...]

[Walleye]

1. There are thousands of churches and they are tax-free. They still have to force prayers on children

I only wish they would put this much effort into doing good works instead of trying to get prayer into schools which doesn’t do any good for anybody. Want prayer in school? send them to a private religious school. Why do we have to keep fighting for and winning the same battles over and over? I guess every Supreme Court precedent is in jeopardy now

[Marthe48]

24. You can prayer in school just keep it to yourself

But christian religious freaks want to shove it down your throat.

[Walleye]

25. They think God orders them to shove it down our throats

When a person is convinced they’re doing God’s work it’s kind of hard to argue with them in any kind of logic. The kids can pray all they want anywhere they want. But when a teacher organizes it, a teacher who is getting paid by taxpayers, it just isn’t right. When I was in elementary school they were still doing prayers in the morning. One of my best friends was a Jewish girl she covered her ears during the Lord’s Prayer. I felt so bad for her. I’ve never forgotten it. Certainly nobody in those days ever admitted to being an atheist.

[Marthe48]

31. We didn't have teacher led praying

Didn't talk about it, just didn't do it. I couldn't tell you how anyone worshiped God.

When I was in my 20s, I got a knock at my door at my home. A woman said she was from Church of Christ, and she wanted to witness for the Lord. I was really puzzled and said, "I didn't know Church of Christ witnessed." She said, and you could tell she was annoyed, "We didn't. But now they said we have to." That's how I feel about it. God knows your heart. You don't have to stand on the 50 yard line to get his attention.

[uponit7771]

2. They'll change their mind when other religions start doing the same

[GoCubsGo]

3. First, they should ponder Matthew 6: 16-18.

As should Mr. Kennedy.

ABC was reporting this as a half-time stunt, not post-game, not that its timing really matters. They also pointed out that some of the players felt pressured into joining in on it. The school made the correct decision in stopping this Mr. Kennedy's attention-seeking. Unfortunately, our corrupt Supreme Court probably will not.

[Saboburns]

4. It's perfectly legal for a coach to pray on the 50-yard line.

BTW I am an avowed atheist.

It's also perfectly legal if some of his players want to join him. What is not legal is forcing any students to perform any religious activities at anytime or place.

[Phoenix61]

17. He is an adult in a position of authority. He decides who makes

first string and who doesn’t. Imagine your boss having a prayer circle in the middle of your weekly staff meeting. Would you feel comfortable walking out of the room? The coach has spent hour after hour setting himself up as a person to follow and someone who’s opinion matters, a lot. You are mistaken if you think the children on that team are free to ignore what he does. He’s wrong.

[Saboburns]

29. And none of that prohibits him from Constitutionally protected religious activity.

See, here in America we don't prohibit anyone from praying. Anywhere or anytime.

What we do is not allow is any government entity making any prayer school sanctioned or mandatory for anybody. That coach can pray on the 50-yard line, what he can't do is pressure, or coerce, or make any players or students join in.

And that's the crux of this case.

[Phoenix61]

30. None of that changes what I said.

It’s coercive and that is not allowed.

[forthemiddle]

32. He stopped praying with the students

After the school told him to not pray with the students, he still prayed, by himself, on the 50 yard line. He was still fired.

I think he did have a right to continue his prayers, I even think the players had a right to join him, but I can see where that is a little more iffy. I don't think any player ever complained, it was an opposing coach, but I'm not 100% sure of that.

[Phoenix61]

34. One player did complain.

“While Kennedy insists he never cared whether students participated in the prayers and he never asked them to join him, at least one player — anonymously — later reported participating contrary to his own beliefs, for fear of losing playing time.“

[forthemiddle]

37. Thanks, I missed that

Then I agree with the school asking him not to have the students pray with him, but I still think he has the right to pray by himself (which is apparently what he was doing when he was fired).

[Cuthbert Allgood]

40. It's also about a public school and using that platform to support religion.

Which is why the school said no overt religious things. They are disallowing all of them. That was the right decision. The district has the ability to determine if governmental property can be used for religion. They said no.

[FraDon]

5. Who will protect and secure

our freedom FROM religion (the oldest BIG LIE)?

[DFW]

18. The best explanation of it all (and it's NOT Bill Maher):

[mahatmakanejeeves]

6. Ahh, you beat me to it. From the Washington Post:

COURTS & LAW

Supreme Court takes up case of a coach and his prayers on 50-yard line

Joseph Kennedy’s case brings questions about the ability of public employees to live out their faith while on duty and the government’s responsibility to protect schoolchildren from coercion

By Robert Barnes
April 21, 2022 at 7:08 p.m. EDT



Former Bremerton High School assistant football coach Joseph Kennedy at Bremerton Memorial Stadium in Washington on Nov. 5, 2015. (Larry Steagall/Kitsap Sun via AP)

BREMERTON, Wash. — Almost everyone agrees it should not require two trips to the U.S. Supreme Court to settle the case of a high school football coach who wants to pray at the 50-yard line. ... Maybe former Bremerton High School assistant coach Joseph Kennedy could have conceded that his postgame prayer of gratitude could take place somewhere other than midfield, or discouraged what one judge called a “spectacle” of stampeding supporters and politicians who rushed after one game to kneel beside him on the gridiron.

Maybe the school district could have offered an accommodation that didn’t require Kennedy to climb to the stadium press box, or retreat to a janitor’s office in the school, to offer his prayer. Instead, it prohibited him from any “demonstrative religious activity” that is “readily observable to (if not intended to be observed by) students and the attending public.”

Nonetheless, Kennedy v. Bremerton School District arrives before the justices Monday. It brings vexing questions about the ability of public employees to live out their faith while on duty and the government’s competing responsibility to protect schoolchildren from coercion and to remain neutral on the subject of religion.

{snip}

What the court must decide

The case calls for the Supreme Court once again to find the line between the First Amendment’s establishment clause, which forbids government endorsement of religion, and its free speech and free exercise clauses, which forbid restraints on the private observance of religion.

{snip}

The case is Kennedy v. Bremerton School District.

By Robert Barnes
Robert Barnes has been a Washington Post reporter and editor since 1987. He joined The Post to cover Maryland politics, and he has served in various editing positions, including metropolitan editor and national political editor. He has covered the Supreme Court since November 2006. Twitter https://twitter.com/scotusreporter

[rurallib]

9. 'living their faith' doesn't have to be made into a spectacle

that implies that a public entity encourages it. He could just as easily wait until he goes home to put on his display.

[GoCubsGo]

10. Jesus would be horrified.

He specifically condemned public displays of faith, such as those in which Mr. Kennedy has been engaging. But, there are a whole lot of Christians out there, like Mr. Kennedy--and the six Christofascists on the Supreme Court, who totally ignore everything Jesus had to say. I have little doubt they'll ignore him here, as well.

[sl8]

26. Thank you for the additional info. n/t

[underpants]

7. I'll be honest. I learned the Lords Prayer from high school football

I went to church as a kid but we stopped going. I was simply out of practice until we took a knee after games. I participated basically because it would have stood out if I didn’t.

[Nay]

14. The fact that you felt coerced (and who wouldn't have felt that way?) is the

exact reason why such religious displays are not to be led by ANY school official at school functions. But I doubt the new SC will rule that way.

[bucolic_frolic]

8. They've baked their prayers into cakes, into healthcare plans, now the 50 yard line??

If we don't stop them somewhere, everything will be taken over by prayers - parking spaces, shopping carts, oatmeal, heads of garlic and celery. Did you see Jesus in that chicken over there?

And if their religion is so personal and such a matter of belief, why do they have to rub it in everyone's face all the time?

[FBaggins]

11. Looks like it will come down to Justice Barret

Alito, Thomas, Gorsuch, and Kavanaugh have already weighed in that they're not happy with the 9th Circuit's reasoning

Unless Roberts can come up with a larger majority for a watered-down ruling or accepts the district's mootness argument.

[milestogo]

12. Is that really the right location? How about the 5 yard line? Or the end zone?

How about the LOCKER ROOM?

[Hugin]

13. It must not be important to Judge Ginni or it would be...

On the so-called shadow docket.

It simply doesn’t gut enough established civil rights or usurp the powers of the Executive Branch for her liking.

Watch for them to possibly go with precedent on this as a conciliatory crumb for when they kick roe v wade in the gonads after the mid-terms.

I don’t see her being interested in this. So, it’s a vehicle for Roberts to signal he’s still large and in charge. Plus, the base will gobble it up.

Just how stupid do they think we are?

Thus turns a politicized SCrOTUS.

[rickford66]

15. My God, do they kneel ?

[haele]

20. Of course. They kneel and hold hands. It's considered team building.

And if one doesn't think there's an authority component inherent to all team building efforts, one hasn't been to a team-building event.
The leader determines the nature and best roles to accomplish the task -and if a team member doesn't "fit" in a role as the team leader determines that member should be in, it causes major problems.
So if the Coach or assigned Team Leader wants a prayer circle in midfield at the end of the game, you attend.
Even if in your mind, you're mumbling Dawg instead of Gawd, you do it if you want to play.
Why do you think so many sports team players are demonstrably religious, even though their personal actions are in opposition to their displays on the field? Because they have had to do that for Coach and the QB (or Team Captain) for years - since High School at least.

Haele

[rickford66]

21. So why the fuss about Kaepernick kneeling ?

[haele]

22. Kaepernick kneeling was not religious, but for "respect".

His issue was the enforced stand with hand over heart to salute the flag/national anthem hyper-patriotism, bread and circuses social white-washing that professional sports was sliding into.
Kneeling was an option that he has told by some military members would be a respectful alternative to just sitting there while everyone else stood in lockstep pretending everything is all just peachy in their lives.
And it would have been except for right wing reactionaries who want their football players to be fantasy football video game characters instead of real people who have real lives outside of sports and don't just want to be dumb jocks.
They went to college. And the good colleges will try to teach these young men and women that while they may be good athletes, most of them won't get a lucrative professional sports contract to support them out of college; a lot of good college athletes actually get degrees outside of Sports because they know this. Sports pays for their Batchelor's or even Master's degrees.

Haele

[MissMillie]

16. these cases are not about the exercise of religion

Because anyone can pray anywhere at any time.

These cases are about a showcase of piety, which as you point out, is something their religion frowns upon.

[Karma13612]

19. Jeepers

Can’t wait for the day when I am in a fancy restaurant, and before the waiter places my plate of food in front of me, he does a prayer over it.

I am so glad I’m 68.

Unless things turn around, this country is deteriorating faster than I am. But, I am happy to hear Macron pulled out another win. Something to be thankful for!!

[DFW]

23. What the Court can't possibly determine

The Supreme Court cannot know who FEELS forced or intimidated into joining some ritual they don't believe in, because they fear the scorn and the rejection that might come from "not going along." The trouble is that the Republican majority is composed of elitists who think that the constitution is not there to protect and preserve the rights of the individual, but rather the rule by those who would trample the rights of the individual. Republicans don't believe in Jefferson, but Putin.

[Novara]

27. Separation of church and state - it's a fucking no-brainer

But for people like Justice I Like Beer and Justice Handmaiden's Tale, this clear separation is too complicated.

The fact they even took this no-briner case tells me they're going to turn public schools into religious institutions.

And that is not a country I want to live in. Not after having freedom FROM religion for most of my 60 years.

[Hotler]

28. I've heard this saying; Religon is like a penis. It's okay to have one and it's okay to be

proud of it but you don't go waving it around in public.

[rockfordfile]

33. A waste of tax payers money. Folks have been doing that for years now praying at the 50

[maxsolomon]

35. A Catholic School can do it 24/7.

The issue is a Public High School coach coercing players into participating in Christian prayers when they may be Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist, and not least, Atheist.

Yes, it's coercion.

[moondust]

38. +1

Last edited Mon Apr 25, 2022, 02:20 PM - Edit history (1)

If it is considered a "team activity" then any Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist, and not least, Atheists who don't join in may be discriminated against as outcasts/heretics.

[Midnight Writer]

36. Reread this story, replacing "praying" with "masturbating".

He certainly has a right to do it, but not in front of his students, and certainly not with his students.

[MagickMuffin]

39. Who is it really who wants to indoctrinate children? Hmmmmmm, Who could it be?

It appears the indoctrination begins with the republicons ramming their religion down our throats!