I'm thinking that abandoning Twitter is a win for the right wing

[bigtree]

...as suggested by some this morning as Elon Musk sidles up to ownership.

They couldn't get Trump's 'Truth Social' off the ground, so they'll be more than happy to see Democrats delete their Twitter accounts, lessening social media presence and influence, and ceding that ground.

Journalists who regularly promote their copy on Twitter will, no doubt, be encouraged by the exodus of would-be critics and fact-checkers.

More importantly, pols and others looking to influence political opinion will be ecstatic to find opponents recoiling from the platform, leaving them room to spread their rhetoric and propaganda uncontrolled into the public arena.

Twitter isn't a perfect platform, even without Musk monopolizing his influence there, but that's never been the point of participation. The power for demagogues, who won't leave Twitter, is a chastened readership who is so beat down by the relentless flood of disinformation and hatred that they turn away and leave that dominion of information to them, alone.

Does anyone really believe journos, pols, and others on Twitter will have less influence if we ignore them? What makes the platform work is that it's form is based on who you follow. That's basically what shows up on your feed, what you see when you open it.

Mine includes prominent Democratic legislators, candidates, pundits, and supporters of the things I advocate. They're likely not leaving the ground to their opposition either.

Maybe consider that it's likely Musk's actual intent to spark an exodus of progressive voices and input from the prominent public platform.

[Effete Snob]

1. I don't understand this at all

Nothing has changed on Twitter.

Why not wait to see what, if anything, happens, before talking about abandoning it.

[snowybirdie]

2. But Twitter

will eventually fail as more liberal posters leave. Musk will lose money! Yeah! Think My Space.

[TlalocW]

3. I say don't abandon it

In fact, more liberals need to join and push back against conservatives on it.

TlalocW

[Tree-Hugger]

4. Yep

Why leave and create an echo chamber for them? RW fucknuts have been all over Twitter since day one. Dems do a good job challenging them.

The calls to boycott and leave are embarassing,IMO.

[dixiechiken1]

5. If we leave, they will lose interest.

This is why everything the RW tries to start up ultimately fails. Even fascist assholes don't want to hang out with fascist assholes. We'll have another place to land, eventually.

I'm going to wait & see. However, the second TFG & MTG's accounts are reinstated, I'm out. Totally not interested in being a part of that bullshit.

[bigtree]

8. that's not going to happen

...the press will still be there.

The legislators, pols and pundits alike will still be there messaging and influencing opinion.

Their propaganda doesn't end just because we're not looking. We're not even their target audience.

[Hoyt]

6. Agree. Honestly, as long as we and thousands of others can respond to tweets/posts we don't

agree with, I think we'll be OK.

If we can't post a rebuttal, or agreement for that matter, then I'd worry. Of course, if we can't respond, who is going to participate on Twitter.

[mainer]

7. I'm seeing suggestions to join "Counter Social" instead

I'm not leaving Twitter yet, but wondered if anyone here has experience with Counter Social.

[LeftInTX]

9. I'm not that active on twitter

It's good for up to the minute news and for tagging elected officials etc. This is not going to change.

But other than that, I can't "get into it" (It's the platform...can't find stuff more than a day old etc)

However, it also has tons of RW stuff too.

[bigtree]

10. my feed only has rw nonsense if one of the people I follow mentions them

...you get the rw nonsense in replies, but my news feed reads like an ultra progressive google with pols, reporters, and advocates all working toward the same information/advocacy mecca that I'm striving for.

[LeftInTX]

17. I'll still stay on it

Where do I get up to the minute from the National Weather Service?
Where can we tag our Texas Legislators when they're in session?
Where can I find really breaking news? (Trial verdicts etc)


I just don't spend much time there...

[samnsara]

11. when texas had their abortion mess i abandonded MSM..no Joy, no Racheal..

..I didnt miss it at all! Same with twitter.. I only became active to help smoke out the Bundy gang anyway..

[bigtree]

14. msm isn't interactive

...you don't get to reply to Joy watching her on TV, except through the imaginary connection we get by yelling real loud at the set.

This is an example of interactive advocacy by a journo on Twitter:

Link to tweet

This is pushback to a pol posting his propaganda on Twitter:

Link to tweet

This is a check on power:

Link to tweet

This is a wedge against disinformation:

Link to tweet

This is real time communication and info about breaking political events:

Link to tweet

...none of this is monopolized by a few networks or reporters, and it's all open to your input.

[Caliman73]

12. Without progressive voices, Twitter will die...

Why are GAB, Truth Social, Frank (whatever), and other right wing Twitter wannabes a bust? Because they are echo chambers on media that requires engagement.

No one wants to be constantly surrounded by people parroting the same talking points, or even more extreme versions of the garbage right wingers spew.

People will find another service to go to if/when right wingers take over Twitter.

I agree that we should not simply allow Musk to screw up Twitter, and we should not stop saying what we do and arguing our perspective, but it he wants to destroy Twitter by turning it into another right wing social media echo chamber, then why waste our energy trying to save a company that wants to go down in flames?

[dixiechiken1]

16. Agree 100%

[bigtree]

18. it would become a right wing echo chamber if progressive voices weren't heard alongside

..in rebuttal.

Twitter looms so large because it's used by so many journos, pols, and advocates. Most won't leave because of Musk.

The information that Twitter's hosted outstrips whatever the public had access to in the decades before it's existence, by light years. It's not going to stop being influential as long as it exists, in whatever form.

Progressive voices shouldn't cede that public arena to them.

[Caliman73]

20. If enough people leave it will

Twitter lives and dies on engagement. If it becomes a right wing cesspool, people will leave. If enough people leave, then all of the journalists, politicians, etc... who are not getting eyes on their statements, will leave too.

It won't happen overnight, but it will happen. Especially if another service that offers a better experience comes along to challenge Twitter.

Like I said, we should not all just up and leave. We should see what it is like, but if Musk allows right wing bullshit to be prominent, then it will not be a place that is worth going to.

[bigtree]

25. that's not likely to happen

...if it does, it'll be the right wing's wet dream come true.

[Caliman73]

27. Maybe not, or maybe it will, in time.

It will certainly not be the right wing's wet dream come true. The right thrives on conflict and needs the engagment too. The reason all the right wing Twitter wannabes fail is because you need engagement to have a successful social media platform.

It isn't like television, which is passive media. You need people talking and sharing. Right wingers are boring and annoying. Turning Twitter into a right wing echo chamber will kill it or at least make it lose most of its influence.

People will go elsewhere and where most people go, the "influencers" and politicians, etc... will follow.


Let's see how it plays out. It is certainly not going to happen right away. We have to see what Musk and Twitter actually do, how it changes, etc... Musk may make some minor changes that don't really do much. I still stand by what I say though. If he shifts it dramatically to the right, it will not survive in the form it is now and with its influence.

[Fullduplexxx]

26. Yea because the left has done such a good job of changing their minds

Progressive voices just feed them . They arent interested in your point of view they're just trying to piss you off. If they know you're watching they'll just keep going

[bigtree]

28. it's not about them

...it's about influencing the people who read twitter.

Reporters and politicians know this. That's why they're there, not just to parry with Democrats.

[UTUSN]

23. Word!

[GoCubsGo]

13. Yes, it's what they want.

The Cult is already gloating over it.

Personally, I don't think this is going to end well for Musk. Why did the current owners of Twitter change their minds so quickly, after going out of their way to create a "poison pill" to prevent this? On the surface, it looks like they're just greedy. But, do they know something we don't that's going to cause Musk misery down the road?

[CentralMass]

15. Musk is a brilliant guy who unfortunately is a major asshole. I don't have to stick around to find

Out what will become of Twitter. It is predictable.

[Initech]

19. Have you seen screen shots of Truth Social?

It's basically a carbon copy of Twitter, only "Tweets" were changed to "Truths". That's it. That's all it is.

[UTUSN]

21. If he takes it over, it's not *THE* (only) speech venue. If it goes Wingnut, it won't be "prominent"

either.

Just by him or anybody's taking possession of it will make it a different thing, even if it stayed the same otherwise, not to mention any changes he might or likely *will* make of any kind.

Just that he (alone) will replace the (Moderators/rules) supposedly in the name (code name) of "free speech" is the biggest change of what it is now, never mind what's in-the-air of "reinstating" whomever.

*** Wingnuts and anybody are perfectly able to Tweet now the way things are now, no? So long as they don't break some basic rules.

So if he reinstates previous rule-breakers (who were mostly wingnuts?) it amounts to undermining *rules* period.

I barely have even looked at Twitter, but the things that have seeped through to my level don't seem to be a "Liberal" (only) place.

*** But somebody taking it over and making *his* top-down authority is Authoritarian in its bones.


So if becomes a Wingnut venue, it's not a matter of us yielding the field. It comes down to the futility of "debating". How did our own experiment here of having a "conservative" mirror of DU work out?

If some Libs want to stay and "debate" endlessly/futilely, so be it for them. There are those places readily available NOW and there will be Twitter-Redux places to go to, too. My totally subjective guess is that it will fail under him, be a "Free Republic" type place.

[bigtree]

24. the media power brokers, reporters, pols, advocates, demagogues aren't leaving

...just because Musk owns it.

It's not just 'debating' that going on, it's making certain that the propaganda on Twitter has a rebuttal in the same public forum, on the same terms as the objectionable messaging or other propagandized reporting.

That's basically our responsibility as citizens and advocates.

It may seem like a game to some, perhaps because that's as far as they managed to accomplish there. But twitter isn't a captive media. You're still free to publish your opinion right next to the legislators, reporters, and activists who make their own play for the attention of the public.

Or, you're free to just ignore them, but they aren't going away. As my old friend and co-worker, Guy Washington used to say, 'Good always leaves, but bad comes to stay."

[UTUSN]

30. The ones you list who stay, fine. They can "report" on all wingnut content to heart's content.

[bigtree]

32. this is a simplification of what Twitter posters bring to the platform

...and why leave all that to a select few?

It's not as if the rest of the electorate will leave along with you. Great, maybe, in theory, but the reality is that the platform will continue to influence public opinion beyond 'them.'

The question then becomes whether we are willing to leave that public ground to demagogues.

[UTUSN]

35. Well, I'm a simple guy, thanks. Not going to rehash what I said. It's not "public ground" if he buys

it.

Who's going to people the anti-wingnut Propaganda Patrol, stalk and stack the Duty Roster?

Do all the influencers you listed keep a watch on the current wingnut outlets - Faux, Breitbart, Daily Caller, et al. (in the hundreds of outlets)?

*** Life is way too short to "debate" - including on this topic here.

[bigtree]

38. if it's a free platform, with the same membership rules, then it's public

...I'm always limited in defending use of Twitter to folks who aren't into using it.

There are myriad instances where communicating something on that platform has been significantly influential to our politics, our lives, or our well-being. being indifferent to hostile to it doesn't change those influences.

Conversely, the advocacy on Twitter extends to informing as well as misinformation. It's like any public forum, with good and bad influences. I daresay, though, there are dozens of influencers, like Dan Rather, that I prize reading there.

There are also fact checkers, as well as our own Democratic bunch, including aspiring legislators looking for support. You basically throw out the good and do nothing about the bad influences if you leave it to them.

What actual purpose does that serve? They keep on propagandizing and we just turn our backs? I hope that doesn't happen.

[UTUSN]

40. You can have the last word without my saying you "win".Will continueReccing some of your other posts

[rockfordfile]

46. people will leave it. Musk is a un-American fascist pos. Staying on twitter gives support

[bigtree]

53. I hardly think my progressive twitter posts give any right winger support

...but they can pretend, I guess.

Link to tweet

[GoneOffShore]

22. As I don't use the platform, although I have an account, I find it annoying to use.

Deleted the app from my phone today, and as someone here stated, if the TFG and others get back on the platform, I'm done.

[keep_left]

29. They couldn't get Truth Social off the ground even as they stole public-domain code...

...that takes real talent. Only a Drumpf project could be this incompetent. (They finally complied with open-source licenses).

[Torchlight]

31. MySpace was sold for over half a billion dollars.

Prior to the sale, it was the largest social networking site on the planet for four years. Apps come, apps go. I still have a folder buried somewhere deep in an old, dusty computer with Cinemagram app stuff on it.

[bigtree]

34. Myspace had 20 million users registered between 2004 and 2005

....Twitter currently has 396.5 million users.

Just sayin'.

[Torchlight]

42. And both billed as the largest and most influential of their respective days

Companies rise. Companies fall.

[rockfordfile]

47. Makes no difference.

[SoonerPride]

33. Abandoning twitter, if trump is allowed back, is a win for me

I refuse to use any service that trump is on.

If Musk owns it I don't care.

Bu if he lets trump on it them I am out.

[BradAllison]

36. Twitter is always filled by idiots.

It won't change one way or another.

[ananda]

37. No, let it turn into a rightwing cesspool.

So what?

Twitter will just fall by the wayside.

[bigtree]

41. if we can't replace it, we lose a huge public platform

...and leave one to republicans.

I don't imagine in my wildest speculation that disgruntled folks leaving because of Musk will make much of a dent in their numbers of users.

Why should we abandon a platform that reaches hundreds of millions, almost 400 million users?

That would not be my recommendation for Democrats. Especially not just dropping out of conversations there. No one's going to take much notice to the reasons behind that personal protest, but the dearth of progressive voices available there to counter the right will certainly translate into more of the right wing nonsense prevailing in public opinion.

[rockfordfile]

44. It can be replaced. Now we get to see who are full of shit

[Sympthsical]

39. Are people going to magically rearrange their bubbles?

Twitter already is a self-curated echo chamber where like-minded people repeat and reinforce each other with little outside influence. When there's anything they dislike, they freak out and organize to scrub it away from the shared constructed narrative reality.

That's why people prize their social media so much. It doesn't challenge their beliefs in any meaningful way. It merely serves to strengthen what they already believe. That's why the Right has devolved over time. Their worst instincts have been persistently nudged and reinforced over time towards the populist contrarianism that put them into a fucked up ideological hole.

It's also how our side has managed to promote and get confused when our loopier stuff doesn't sit well with the average voter. Do people honestly believe people like DeSantis fell from a clear blue sky?

It's why CNN actually thought CNN+ was a great financial decision. They've been up their own Twitter asshole for so long, they have no idea how real, money-paying citizens actually view them. Spoiler: No one in real life was going to pay for Brian Stetler, no matter how much other media figures tweet at and about him.

Twitter's not going to change. Even if it did, what's going to happen? "I'm going to form my bubble even harder!"

I mean, ok? And that's different from what happens now how?

[CentralMass]

45. If the Orange Anus is let back on Twitter along with the others who push lies and incite violence,

then it will have changed.

[Sympthsical]

48. Twitter is not real life

In real life, Trump and the right-wing exist. People do not need to see Trump if they don't want to. I honestly could not tell you a single thing Trump has said in the past two weeks. I don't include him in my daily reading. I keep my eye on things, because being informed is better than not, but if people cannot resist engaging and melting down, that's kind of on them.

People need to be honest and self-aware enough to know the social media existence they spend so much time in and curate for themselves does not comport with what reality is.

And that disconnect is my single biggest problem with Twitter in general

[CentralMass]

49. Here is why the Orange Anus was permently banned.

https://blog.twitter.com/en_us/topics/company/2020/suspension

[Sympthsical]

51. So?

They banned him, and? I could not possibly care less if he's allowed to return or not. I'm not invested in the question.

I just saw an assassination threat yesterday on Twitter that was reviewed and left to stand by the mods because the threat went in the "correct" direction.

The place is a cess pool. Trump pollution is just more murk in an already fetid place.

[rockfordfile]

43. Nope. Musk buys Twitter then it should abandon. You've got a un-American pos

You've got a un-American fascist pos buying a company because right-wing bs can't compete. That "public platform" will cease to be anything.

To stay on twitter with a un-American fascist owning it? then that gives support to the pos. That would fund the pos. Just like those un-American pos that buys Russian oil that funds the same mass murder that threatens democracy around the world.

Another public platform can be created. There will be a big opportunity for that.

[bigtree]

52. same person celebrated here for his money

...defying gravity in space?

Do they qualify for scorn and judgment, as well? Little late for that.

[rockfordfile]

54. I do think those people should reminded of the trumper pos.

[Precipice_dweller]

55. The valuation of social media is perceived.

Continuing to use twitter is agreeing to participate in a broken system. Now, I don't know if that's right or wrong. Arguably, our government is broken and yet we still participate. It's simply a point worth acknowledging while considering the best recourse.

You wrote:

"Does anyone really believe journos, pols, and others on Twitter will have less influence if we ignore them? What makes the platform work is that it's form is based on who you follow. That's basically what shows up on your feed, what you see when you open it.

Mine includes prominent Democratic legislators, candidates, pundits, and supporters of the things I advocate. They're likely not leaving the ground to their opposition either."

Will journos, pols, and others have less influence if we ignore Twitter? No. But, the journos, pols, and others tend to insert their voices where we're already listening. Stop tweeting, stop linking to tweets, stop clicking on links to tweets. Get your news from primary sources. If you want news from legislators, candidates, pundits and such, sign up for their newsletters or email lists. The journos, pols, and others chase the viewership, not the other way around. Get your news from Al Jazeera or even Tik Tok, for god's sake, and that's where the journos, pols, and others will go to get your attention.

The perceived value of Twitter plummets if it isn't used. Don't use it. Let's let Elon Musk's purchase of Twitter be one of the biggest financial mistakes in the history of mankind.