'Roe is dead': Ohio and Kentucky abortion laws preview a future without it

[867-5309.]

"...But if Roe is still the law of the land – and it is – why are so many people in so many states behaving as if it’s gone?

Because activists on both sides believe it soon will be.

“This is the last few months of Roe,” said Tamarra Wieder, state director of Kentucky’s Planned Parenthood Alliance Advocates. “We fully anticipate it will fall.”

“Roe is dead,” said Janet Folger Porter, the activist who helped create Ohio’s “heartbeat bill,” which would ban abortion after detection of a fetal heartbeat. “It’s the best news no one knows.”

Those predictions come as the most conservative Supreme Court in generations considers whether to weaken or dismantle Roe v. Wade when it rules in June on a Mississippi law that bans abortions after 15 weeks..."

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2022/04/26/roe-v-wade-new-laws-preview-future-without-right-abortion/7377926001/

WTF? How can they just roll ahead like this???

[CrispyQ]

1. Forced Labor, Revisited: The Thirteenth Amendment and Abortion

I wish the pro-choice groups would add this argument to their toolbox.

Abortion and the 13th Amendment
2010
Forced Labor, Revisited: The Thirteenth Amendment and Abortion
Andrew Koppelman
Northwestern University School of Law, [e-mail]

https://scholarlycommons.law.northwestern.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=https://www.google.com/&httpsredir=1&article=1031&context=facultyworkingpapers

snip...

I. The basic argument The Thirteenth Amendment reads as follows:

1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

2. Congress shall have the power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.

My claim is that the amendment is violated by laws that prohibit abortion. When women are compelled to carry and bear children, they are subjected to "involuntary servitude" in violation of the amendment. Abortion prohibitions violate the Amendment's guarantee of personal liberty, because forced pregnancy and childbirth, by compelling the woman to serve the fetus, creates "that control by which the personal service of one man [sic] is disposed of or coerced for another's benefit which is the essence of involuntary servitude."6

Such laws violate the amendment's guarantee of equality, because forcing women to be mothers makes them into a servant caste, a group which, by virtue of a status of birth, is held subject to a special duty to serve others and not themselves.

~more at link

Parents can't be compelled to donate their organs to their child, even to save the child's life. Why does a fetus have more claim on a woman's body than her child who has been born?

Also, if they can take away your choice to have an abortion, they can take away your choice to have a baby, too. The zealots never think it could go that way but they're wrong.

THE MOST IMPORTANT DECISION A WOMAN CAN MAKE ISN'T YOURS.

[AZSkiffyGeek]

6. You think that would make a difference?

The death of Roe was baked when a bunch of idiots decided that Hillary was a warmonger and ignored all the warnings about the Supreme Court.

[CrispyQ]

13. Okay, sure. Let's not even try. -nt

[AZSkiffyGeek]

18. I just find it amusing that people are pulling these "strategies" out of their ass

The solution was simple. Vote for fucking Democrats. But people couldn't be bothered to do that. So now it's "But if we argue that women are actually slaves to fetuses, then the Supreme Court has to recognize the brilliance of the argument and change their views!"
It's naive and foolish. Better to work on finding ways to protect it at the state level, or work to get support networks into place to assist those in red states who will lose access.

[ck4829]

22. "Don't bother"

[betsuni]

53. +1

[ck4829]

21. "Don't bother"

[SoonerPride]

3. Welcome to DU!

Roe is for all intents and purposes dead.

SCOTUS will strike it down and we will return to the dark ages of back alley abortions.

[AZSkiffyGeek]

4. And all that needed to be done to stop it was to vote for the e-mail lady

But that was too difficult for some.

[FakeNoose]

16. No it means we'll go back to states'-rights from the bad old days

Certain liberal enlightened states will continue to allow abortions and other family-planning methods. Other states will crawl into the dark side, but they can never make us ALL go there. It's the ultra-conservatives who have spent the last 50 years championing states-rights, so now they'll get exactly that.

Most assuredly, the young and liberal Americans will need to relocate to the enlightened states in order to "live long and prosper." They should start planning to do that real soon.

[PeacheyCarnehan]

5. Oh, well.

To all those liberals and progressives that voted Green or sat out in 2016; elections have consequences

[AZSkiffyGeek]

7. Yup.

[RandiFan1290]

8. Welcome Back to DU

[PXR-5]

12. Yep x2

And watch how many sit out the mid-terms!!!!!!

I have already knocked on doors for GOTV operations, and hear it's not worth voting anymore.

And sorry, it's mostly YOUNG people!

[AZSkiffyGeek]

48. How many votes did Jill Stein get in Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania again?

Oh yeah, it was enough to swing the election. Nothing to do with the left, I'm sure, especially after she suggested a certain failed presidential candidate be her running mate.

[Eliot Rosewater]

60. And how many voted but not for President?

25 yrs of LIES from the right about Hillary and too GOD DAMN many on the so called left believed and repeated them!

[Eliot Rosewater]

59. Little to no LIBERALS did that, but plenty of another section of the LEFT did

either sit out or NON STOP bash our candidate even after that other guy lost the nomination.

[roamer65]

9. I think Michigan is going to become a no restriction state.

Pretty sure our 1931 law will be struck down by our Supreme Court. We have a 4-3 majority on it.

Our legislature cannot override Governor Whitmer’s veto of any restrictive replacement law and the composition of our state legislature just may be Democratic majorities after November.

Independent redistricting commission was a smart move.

[Walleye]

10. It has been repealed de facto since Amy Coney Barrett was confirmed

[ck4829]

11. Chilling

[PXR-5]

14. Since the Constitution doesn't matter anymore,

I guess Blue States can ban guns LOL

[AZSkiffyGeek]

19. If you can find 5 justices who agree with you, go for it

Otherwise it's a waste of time and money.

[ck4829]

23. "Don't bother"

[AZSkiffyGeek]

26. Put effort into something that might actually work.

Rather than trying something blatantly unconstitutional that won't get past the court challenge.

[roamer65]

20. Nah. We need defense from the Trumpist Putler loving orcs.

[AZSkiffyGeek]

38. Passing unconstitutional laws that will get tossed immediately is a good defense?

Sounds like a stupid waste of time and money to me.

[Buckeyeblue]

15. It's almost as if these groups have advanced notice

Or maybe it's just that obvious what the states are going to do. I think the House should pass a Reproductive Rights bill that grants abortion access and birth control access to all women. The senate could hash out a compromise that could potentially get 60 votes.

I think some senators from red states could justify passing the bill to prevent a health crises.

Otherwise, I hope this motivates the base to vote.

[roamer65]

24. I think the ruling has been leaked to the anti-choice orcs.

[BradAllison]

34. LOL

Your optimism is amazing.

I hope Miss Reproductive Rights K Sinema is happy.

[AZSkiffyGeek]

39. What exactly did Sinema do?

I'm curious. She didn't support any of these SCOTUS picks. What abortion bans has she voted for? Or are you just taking potshots at her because you have no idea what her stance is and just assumed she's responsible?

[BradAllison]

40. Her stance on "We must have 60 votes"

On anything "important" is clear.

I know you love to defend her, despite the constant "not a fan" insistence. Hope she gets primaried because Arizona can do better. Sorry.

[AZSkiffyGeek]

41. What does 60 votes in the Senate have to do with the Supreme Court ruling on Roe v Wade?

I don't like her stance on a lot of things, including the filibuster. But if it's her vs a Republican, you're damn right I'm voting for her, because I understand what living in a purple state is like. I'm also intellectually honest not to treat her like a boogeyman when there are 50 Republicans who are doing MUCH more to stop anything. And I'm not deluded enough by the 2020 results to think that Arizona is remotely close to a blue state.

[BradAllison]

43. If you were reading my reply to the first poster, you'd know.

The idea that we're going to cobble together 60 votes for an "abortion compromise" is laughable, nevermind 51 (Adding VP Harris tiebreakers) because of Kyyyrrrrsttttennn's and Joe Mansion's precious adherence to the Filibuster.

"Yeah I'm suuuuuuuper liberal, green party and all that and I hate racism, authoritarianism and all that stuff but LOVE DAT FILLIBUSTER".

I'm sorry your senator is on the take now.

[AZSkiffyGeek]

44. You have proof she's on the take?

Or just making accusations against a Democrat.
And I agree it's laughable to think they can get 60 votes for an abortion compromise. Or for doing away with the filibuster. But keep attacking Democrats and not Republicans.

[BradAllison]

45. ....

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/27/us/politics/sinema-fund-raiser-social-climate-bill.html

Alert if you don't like it.

[ProudMNDemocrat]

17. Use this to rally women to March and VOTE in November.

With the message...THE STATE DOES NOT CONTROL YOU OR YOUR BODY! You DO!

That will rally women of child bearing age as well as Grandmas like me, to get out the message that Reproductive Choices are bi-partisan. VOTE out ALL Republicans lawmakers who take it upon themselves to decide for women what is best for them rather than women themselves.

This amounts to forced motherhood because once Roe is overturned after 49 years, Republicans in the states will be coming after ALL forms Birth Control, sterilization procedures, etc.

[867-5309.]

30. THIS

If we're drawing a line electorally, it needs to be now.

[Demovictory9]

54. Yep!

[modrepub]

27. Law Of Unintended Consequences

or, be careful what you ask for. TBH, I have no idea what happens if Roe get's struck down and neither does anyone else, no matter what they try and tell you.

I'm sure a lot of folks will conclude it will just go back to the way it was before, but a good portion of the folks who were around pre-Roe are no longer here (they've passed on). So the question is, what do the rest of us do?

I sincerely doubt there will be a night and day change. For folks to think there aren't going to be some very upset folks is utter nonsense. What happens when the first person is arrested? What if local authorities won't enforce directives from the states legislatures? What happens when cases go to trial? All unknowns at this point.

I suspect in this age of interconnectedness, there are going to be a lot of folks working against any more restrictions. Going to be hard to enforce state-to-state differences if abortion becomes interstate commerce (for healthcare). More legal tests and more disillusionment with our judiciary would be my guess.

I'd push for state-wide referendums on the subject. At least we could paint how in or out of touch politicians and judges are with the general population.

[CrackityJones75]

63. Bwahahahahaha....

There are literally laws on the books that will automatically dictate what happens. So yeah it will be night and day. And if you don’t think these christofascists have plans in place then you haven’t been paying attention.


This isn’t just about abortion. It is about control and using fear to control half the population. If you have to constantly be in fear of becoming pregnant then you are not free. Especially when it is even by rape. Or especially when it could even end your own life. people will be mad? Sure. But they also won’t be able to vote because we couldn’t even get that shit done. We couldn’t even get voting rights secured. So now after row falls and we have existing laws in something like 20 states then yeah it is a pretty fucking bleak situation.

[modrepub]

66. We'll See

I agree it's pretty depressing. But the anti-abortion folks have been operating out in the open for literally almost 50 years to flip this. It wasn't a secret (and isn't now) what they intended to do. If it was so unpopular, how in the hell did they pull it off?

There are plenty of folks on this board who've told me the same thing. But this just didn't appear out of nowhere. They didn't stuff ballot boxes. They didn't loose elections because of this issue. Now maybe you can say there are a lot of indifferent people or people who don't vote but the truth of the matter is the folks who stand on the precipice of repealing Roe didn't do this with trickery or any underhanded tactics (no matter what the F you have to say). They did this in broad day light. If you and the rest of us who are disheartened by this turn of events can't accept that then we are just as bad as the "big lie" folks.

The reality here is if we want to hold the line and roll this back, we're going to have to roll up our sleeves and fight for this all over again. Sitting around gnashing teeth and saying the other side "cheated" isn't going to change our current situation.

[BlueLucy]

28. 2016 was an eye opener.

Last edited Tue Apr 26, 2022, 08:16 PM - Edit history (1)

So many young people insisted it would never happen or that the issue was a "distraction." Young women will now see how dangerous that rhetoric was. They will see the effects with their own eyes. It's time for them to take up the fight on their own. If they want to fight for it. It's no longer the fight of Boomers or Gen X. This is no longer our fight. It should be fixed by those who broke it.

[Mariana]

42. The majority of voters over 50 cast their ballots for Trump.

The majority of those under 50 voted for Clinton.

It should be fixed by those who broke it.

Yes.

[JT45242]

29. So -- if you live in a hell hole state (IA, OK, TX, KY, the entire secessionist south)

You would have to travel to the nearest non-draconian state and hope that the bounty provisions do not apply so that you could be hit with an additional $10 grand in bounty plus legal fees for whatever asshat neighbor, coworker, etc turned you in. So, an abortion could literally cost more than a year's wages at minimum wage in bounty states.

Given that Texas is literally bigger than almost every country in Europe you couldn't drive to a legal abortion state and back n less than 20 hours from some locations in TX.

In eastern Iowa we are only an hour drive from Illinois but if you wer over on the Nebraska side, you could have a long commute.

For half of the country, Roe will be dead either because it becomes impossible to physically get somehwere to do it safely or the bounties will make it financially impossible.

Watching the story arcs on Call the Midwife about this issue in the 1960s in Britain and a midwife's grandmother sentenced to 20 years for providing abortions -- it made me sick to my stomach. Some of these American Taliban will want to make doctor's life without parole or even the death penalty for performing abortions.

But -- email lady wasn't Bernie so some could not vote for her. The third party voters in 3 key states was the entire difference between the last 5 years of TDFG and a healthy country.

[betsuni]

55. +1

[CrackityJones75]

64. Bernie and his ros

Bernie has a huge ugly mittened hand in this. I will never ever forget his pouting face at the convention.

[llmart]

67. +1

Maybe all younger women should watch that episode of "Call the Midwife". It was chilling.

I'm too old to have to worry about getting pregnant, but I'm old enough to remember fighting like hell as a young woman for the right to control my own body. I do believe that many young people have just adopted the attitude that it would never happen in this day and age. They are about to find out they were wrong. That goes for the young men also. If they won't fight for women, they may be very surprised at how it impacts their lives to have a child they didn't plan on. After all, women don't get pregnant all on their own.

[roamer65]

31. Come to Michigan for legal MJ and abortions!

Our wonderful water winter wonderland!

[Buckeyeblue]

37. At least for now

We are a wrong sided governor away from being just as bad as some of the southern states.

[roamer65]

46. Ohio? Yes.

Michigan? No.

Our wonderful governor is directly appealing our old POS 1931 abortion law to the Michigan Supreme Court, on which progressives have 4-3 majority. I expect it to get struck down and then we will be a no restriction state.

With our independent redistricting that just took place, I am hearing that our legislature will probably flip from Orc to Democratic this fall.

[Buckeyeblue]

51. I'm in Michigan

I hope you are right about the state races. I agree that she is a wonderful governor. I just worry about the coming election.

But if Gretchen wins and we flip the state houses, I would be ecstatic.

[roamer65]

56. I think we will be ok.

From what I read it makes flipping the legislature very possible. That’s why the repukes have sued over the commission’s map.

[qazplm135]

33. Because not enough people

Turned out in 2016 that's how.

[BradAllison]

35. We are headed towards a Blue/Grey future

The South has risen.

[roamer65]

47. We are heading for a breakup.

[BradAllison]

49. Too bad they need our money, huh?

Oooo, that's the problem.....

[roamer65]

50. I'm from Michigan.

We have something WAY more valuable than money.

FRESH WATER.

…and we will make sure the access to it is highly restricted.

[budkin]

36. The only silver lining is that it could turn around our midterm woes

As long as it lights a fire.

[Joenobody]

52. RBG should have retired in 2013

She was political enough to know the odds were clearly in favor of Republicans getting the majority in 2014 and winning the Presidency in 2016. They were also highly in favor of Republicans keeping the WH until 2024 at that time. So she knowingly stayed on the court with the odds being she Democrats not have a chance to replace her on their own for 11 more years. Given her age and health she should have known there was a high chance she'd die on the bench before then and be replaced by a republican.

Not taking that opportunity to step away and have say in her replacement was pure hubris and will hurt women for a generation.

[AZSkiffyGeek]

57. Yup - blame the woman

and not the assholes who couldn’t be bothered to vote for a Democrat…

[Joenobody]

58. Blaming the person

Who singled handedly could have prevented a 6-3 conservative majority. She's not a victim in this.

Expecting to get a third term in a row was ignoring modern politics.

[Joenobody]

68. Sorry

Its just true. She retires in 2013 and these laws aren't even being tried in legislatures today.

Justices need to understand that it is not their particular minds that are vital to the court, but rather that the balance never tip to conservatives too far, which has happened a now.

[leftstreet]

65. It's been dying since the Obama administration

Starting in 2011 especially. States rammed through over 200 abortion restrictions from waiting periods to mandatory counseling, and they were successful because the GOP gained so many seats in state houses.

I bet most people don't even realize how few abortion providers are currently available in their own states.