General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsQuickly descending into a world war?
As the "Dude" said in The Big Lebowski, "This aggression will not stand".
And we will ask, how did it happen?
Did we assist Ukraine because we support their right to live free in a democracy?
Or was it an opportunity to keep Russia so busy on their own border that they cannot interfere everywhere else in the world, as they were doing?
Or was it that our intelligence found the proof that Russia not only interfered in our election of 2016, but they installed their puppet in the White House? Was that an act of war by Vladimir Putin?
The first casualty of war is the truth, it has been said.
As the war clouds grow darker, we will probably never know the full truth.
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gab13by13
(32,749 posts)Konstantin Kilimnik
13 Russian Nationals
3 Russian companies
12 Russian GRU officers
Kid Berwyn
(25,055 posts)
SoonerPride
(12,286 posts)Russia is gonna need some Axis partners if they want a world war.
They alone can’t even best Ukraine much less take in NATO.
I think what you see is all the war there will be. Concentrated in Ukraine and Russia getting pushed out and humiliated.
kentuck
(115,600 posts)We should all hope you are right.
bucolic_frolic
(55,779 posts)Doesn't really matter a whole lot if they're royalty, enlightened despot, authoritarian or dictatorship.
Was WWII about Pearl Harbor, or resources, or ideology?
Democracy is a recurring fight to keep power in the hand of the people, but power is continuously being concentrated by politicians, corporations and founding families, and military leaders. Concentration of capital and ownership make the system go. So much secrecy obscures the truth from the public. The fourth estate can't even keep us informed.
I think this war is a recurring regional conflict about resources and land, but it's really a USSR redux in oligarch form. Russian capitalism hasn't formed from the ground up. It's crony capitalism reformed from state enterprises that were sold off.
So yes in my view the whole conflict is broader and deeper than reported daily events, and part of a global tug of war over power and economic systems.
kentuck
(115,600 posts)But, with their old KGB establishment and their wealthy oligarchs, they were able to give the world the illusion that they were still the the old super power they were as the Soviet Union.
They are still the largest nuclear power in the world. It is to everyone's interest that those weapons never fall into the wrong hands.
Putin was and is a threat to the world.
Joe Biden is not Donald Trump.
gab13by13
(32,749 posts)is not limited to the oil and gas industries. A lot of money was skimmed from the Russian MIC.
getagrip_already
(17,802 posts)MAD is very real. Many nations have enough nukes to eliminate us as a species. So what if they have x times what we have? So what if they have hypersonic missiles or mega mirvs?
In the end, the world will be dead. If the first detonations are a surprise, it doesn't matter. Enough of ours will land on them anyway.
The rest is Sabre rattling.
7wo7rees
(5,128 posts)Daniel Ellsberg is 1st, Ray McGovern comes in...
Dahr Jamail.....
And there are a great many here.
H2O, kentuck, DFW, Pachamama (?), mineralman, kidberwyn, oglethorpe in SantaFe, all in Colorado.. ....way too many more... Atticus, PCIntern, sheshe, .....
I just can't list them all.
It's been a hell of a ride since the Supremes in 2000 declared Bush president in a decision they said could never be used as a precedent into the future......
How did that work out?
If I recall correctly, without coffee, one of the "supremes" said with their decision they had wrecked the "integrity" of the court forever with that decision. I think it was John Paul Stevens.
And then there was this..... None Dare Call It Treason
https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/none-dare-call-it-treason/
ancianita
(43,342 posts)this book will give you more of the truth.
Escurumbele
(4,109 posts)Unfortunately, the World should have been more proactive, it should have moved faster to "assist Ukraine" and not one bullet would have been fired by crazy Vlad...The USA and the World have failed humanity, my heart aches every time I think about it.
KS Toronado
(23,849 posts)Our biggest failure was electing tfg, Hillary would have been proactive also,
she warned us about Putler/Russia on the campaign trail.
Response to kentuck (Original post)
malaise This message was self-deleted by its author.
malaise
(297,882 posts)Rec
highplainsdem
(63,058 posts)stupid, in terms of our security and that of other countries besides Ukraine, including our NATO allies.
As the news coming out of Ukraine and Russia has made clear.
Vogon_Glory
(10,351 posts)and the US hadn’t supported Ukraine.
The Russians would have concluded that NATO is a paper tiger and would have started gobbling up first, the Baltic Republics, then Moldova and possibly Romania, then gone on to Poland.
Pootie is practicing a mixture of 19th century European expansionism mixed with some of the nastier practices of cultural genocide that the US practiced on Native Americans during the Wild West days and for several decades afterwards.
oldsoftie
(13,538 posts)Putin is the ONLY one responsible for this.
7wo7rees
(5,128 posts)Truly can't believe it is devolving so fast right in front of us.
"The Family", the Kochs', and many others have been at this for decades before Barry Goldwater warned us.
"Corporate Personhood".
Go back to that decision.
Calista241
(5,633 posts)Russian bounties on US military members? Well, our news media is reporting that we're helping Ukraine assassinate Russian commanders, and though we've officially denied it, I'm not sure if that denial can really be believed.
While I personally support all that we're doing for Ukraine, Russia is unlikely to just ignore this 'escalation' by the US. Does anyone really think Russia won't do anything about this? What are we going to do if several of our senior military officers are killed in random acts of violence? What happens if some of our diplomats are poisoned?
This could all get out of control very quickly.
jaxexpat
(7,794 posts)I'm sure sometimes it's true. Though no ships are lost when the tempest is limited to the teapot.
You're right about one thing, though. "This could all get out of control very quickly," we just need to keep using our imagination.
BeyondGeography
(41,197 posts)I’m not going to sweat this at all. I’d say we have ways to go until we’re even.
KS Toronado
(23,849 posts)will be on Washington DC and without our top military or political leaders, some unknown
Major or Colonel will launch one on Moscow and we're on to M.A.D.
Justice matters.
(10,052 posts)Russia will be vaporized in less than three days of nuclear exchanges.
There would be nothing left standing in all Russian cities of more than 100,000 civilians and they know it.
KS Toronado
(23,849 posts)He's just like IQ4.5, they'll stop at nothing to remain King Of The Hill & believe they're above the law. God like.
Putler has a fool proof plan in place if we retaliate, but like _rumpie he doesn't realize nothing is fool proof.
oldsoftie
(13,538 posts)It goes without saying that anyone in the Pentagon who would release such news should be fired. There is NO question that russia is a threat to world peace & is committing war crimes as a matter of POLICY, not just random acts by a few troops. There is NO question that UKR needs the help of world.
We don't need to TELL everyone HOW we're helping.
Roc2020
(1,793 posts)realistic scenarios this war ends to the benefit of the world? Russia cannot survive a humiliating retreat. Ukraine now has the manpower and weapons to fight the Russians toe to toe. I'm passed concerned now. I'm getting nervous.