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Mon May 9, 2022, 06:59 PM

Thomas Friedman bashes Ukraine: "Ukraine was, and still is, a country marbled with corruption."

...
Alas, we have to be alive to the fact that it’s not only the Russians who would like to involve us more deeply. Have no illusions, President Volodymyr Zelensky of Ukraine has been trying to do the same thing from the start — to make Ukraine an immediate member of NATO or get Washington to forge a bilateral security pact with Kyiv. I am in awe of Zelensky’s heroism and leadership. If I were him, I’d be trying to get the U.S. as enmeshed on my side as he is.

But I’m an American citizen, and I want us to be careful. Ukraine was, and still is, a country marbled with corruption. That doesn’t mean we should not be helping it. I am glad we are. I insist we do. But my sense is that the Biden team is walking much more of a tightrope with Zelensky than it would appear to the eye — wanting to do everything possible to make sure he wins this war but doing so in a way that still keeps some distance between us and Ukraine’s leadership. That’s so Kyiv is not calling the shots and so we’ll not be embarrassed by messy Ukrainian politics in the war’s aftermath.

The view of Biden and his team, according to my reporting, is that America needs to help Ukraine restore its sovereignty and beat the Russians back — but not let Ukraine turn itself into an American protectorate on the border of Russia. We need to stay laser-focused on what is our national interest and not stray in ways that lead to exposures and risks we don’t want.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/06/opinion/biden-ukraine-leaks.html


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Reply Thomas Friedman bashes Ukraine: "Ukraine was, and still is, a country marbled with corruption." (Original post)
bluewater May 2022 OP
dchill May 2022 #1
harumph May 2022 #2
Haggard Celine May 2022 #3
maxsolomon May 2022 #4
texasfiddler May 2022 #5
hatrack May 2022 #16
ColinC May 2022 #6
maxsolomon May 2022 #13
ColinC May 2022 #15
Mike Nelson May 2022 #7
The Magistrate May 2022 #8
grantcart May 2022 #17
uponit7771 May 2022 #19
grantcart May 2022 #21
uponit7771 May 2022 #18
smb May 2022 #9
Cha May 2022 #10
Ritabert May 2022 #11
Phoenix61 May 2022 #12
former9thward May 2022 #14
smb May 2022 #22
blogslug May 2022 #20
Kid Berwyn May 2022 #23

Response to bluewater (Original post)

Mon May 9, 2022, 07:05 PM

1. Error.

"The US was, and still is, a country WELL-marbled with corruption." Fixed.

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Response to bluewater (Original post)

Mon May 9, 2022, 07:05 PM

2. Oh, yes - and the US is super clean. No corruption here.

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Response to bluewater (Original post)

Mon May 9, 2022, 07:07 PM

3. The USA is a country marbled with corruption.

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Response to bluewater (Original post)

Mon May 9, 2022, 07:09 PM

4. I didn't read it that way.

There probably still is corruption in Ukraine. It ran right up through Trump Impeachment 1.0, at the very least. There were corrupt officials post-Euromaidan, like Poroshenko and Lutsenko. Then Trump tried to corrupt Zelenskyy. He was accused of corruption, because it's a common accusation there; accuse others of what you're guilty of.

Ukraine is trying to leave their legacy of Russian kleptocracy behind, but why deny it exists?

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Response to bluewater (Original post)

Mon May 9, 2022, 07:15 PM

5. Ukraine has a history of corruption. How does Thomas Friedman know it is still corrupt? NT

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Response to texasfiddler (Reply #5)

Mon May 9, 2022, 09:54 PM

16. Why, he talked with his cab driver, silly!!

That's the master key to Friedman-Whizdumb!

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Response to bluewater (Original post)

Mon May 9, 2022, 07:15 PM

6. You can say that about literally any country.

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Response to ColinC (Reply #6)

Mon May 9, 2022, 07:44 PM

13. Canada? Iceland? NZ?

some nations actually are less corrupt than others. No one's perfect.

https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2021

"Corruption" as an accusation gets slung about pretty recklessly.

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Response to maxsolomon (Reply #13)

Mon May 9, 2022, 09:41 PM

15. ...and you can likely find examples anywhere to try and say that the corruption is a problem

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Response to bluewater (Original post)

Mon May 9, 2022, 07:24 PM

7. Hmm...

... badly timed, Thomas Friedman - or are you just looking for attention?

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Response to bluewater (Original post)

Mon May 9, 2022, 07:25 PM

8. This Is Stupid, Sir

I am not one for the tu quoque, but 'marbled with corruption' is a pretty fair characterization of the United States at present. Greek meets Greek, as the saying goes: it seems like the basis for a long-lived alliance, rather than an obstacle.

Nor do I give a damn if the people fighting to defeat Russia are thieves and scoundrels. It is simply beside the point.

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Response to The Magistrate (Reply #8)

Mon May 9, 2022, 09:58 PM

17. I would Luke to remind everyone that Ukraine voluntary gave up thermonuclear weapons it had from USS

And received ironclad assurances from the USA that we would stand beside her if Russia invaded.

Everything else is balderdash

TF desperately seeking relevance with Russian lies.

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Response to grantcart (Reply #17)

Tue May 10, 2022, 01:16 AM

19. US is doing what it agreed to do, the language is screwed up to no end but we're holding our end

... of the bargin

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #19)

Tue May 10, 2022, 01:57 AM

21. The Budapest Memorandum of 1994 is in simple and straight forward language

It calls for the assistance of the US to maintain the independence and territorial integrity of Ukraine.

Our current support in material and training is admiral but recent events now make clear that we should have started when Russia first invaded Crimea and annexed two SE provinces. Obviously Trump completely undermined our support of Ukraine but also signalled weak American resolve when he abandoned our Kurd allies in Syria when they were routing Russian mercenaries.

Putting all of that aside, my comment was intended to remind people of the larger historical context when patronizing gadflies like Thomas Friedman make completely idiotic comments about Ukraine especially since the Ukrainian President stood firm against an obvious bribe when the US President violated all code of conduct to use Ukraine to advance a personal and corrupt personal agenda, for which he was impeached.

American double standard on corruption has always been cringe inducing, jaw dropping and nauseating but given the Saudi sovereign fund writing a 2.5 billion dollar check to a Trump family member it really is beyond any known metric of hypocrisy.

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Response to The Magistrate (Reply #8)

Tue May 10, 2022, 01:15 AM

18. +1, A sitting SCJ's wife enabled and stoked a damn insurrection and he didn't recuse himself when

... cases involving her were brought to him.

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Response to bluewater (Original post)

Mon May 9, 2022, 07:27 PM

9. I'm Sure It Will Be Sorted Out Within One Friedman Unit nt

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Response to bluewater (Original post)

Mon May 9, 2022, 07:30 PM

10. Fuck Off, Attention Monger, Friedman..

Russia Enabler

💙💛

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Response to bluewater (Original post)

Mon May 9, 2022, 07:30 PM

11. Friedman jumped the shark years ago

One has to wonder what happened to him.

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Response to bluewater (Original post)

Mon May 9, 2022, 07:34 PM

12. Yeah there wasn't any corruption going on in the last administration. 😂😂😂😂

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Response to bluewater (Original post)

Mon May 9, 2022, 07:57 PM

14. Friedman is right.

Corruption is endemic is both Russia and Ukraine. And no, the U.S. does not even remotely compare. The Defense Dept has said they have no idea where most of our aid is going once it hits the ground.

Yes, we need to continue aid but with both eyes open. Ukarine can't become a U.S. protectorate.

What happens to weapons sent to Ukraine? The US doesn't really know

In the short term, the US sees the transfer of hundreds of millions of dollars' worth of equipment to be vital to the Ukrainians' ability to hold off Moscow's invasion. A senior defense official said Tuesday that it is "certainly the largest recent supply to a partner country in a conflict." But the risk, both current US officials and defense analysts say, is that in the long term, some of those weapons may wind up in the hands of other militaries and militias that the US did not intend to arm.

"We have fidelity for a short time, but when it enters the fog of war, we have almost zero," said one source briefed on US intelligence. "It drops into a big black hole, and you have almost no sense of it at all after a short period of time."

https://www.cnn.com/2022/04/19/politics/us-weapons-ukraine-intelligence/index.html

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Response to former9thward (Reply #14)

Tue May 10, 2022, 05:41 AM

22. No Comparison

the U.S. does not even remotely compare


True; there haven't been any attempted coups in Ukraine, nor Ukrainian Supreme Court justices refusing to recuse themselves in cases implicating their wives.

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Response to bluewater (Original post)

Tue May 10, 2022, 01:33 AM

20. Thom Friedman is a ridiclous person with absolutely no credibility except for the marks on a clock

Last edited Tue May 10, 2022, 02:28 AM - Edit history (1)

He rings true on the hour and the half. Other than that he's all bluster and supposition based on cab rides and cafe visits.

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Response to bluewater (Original post)

Tue May 10, 2022, 06:57 AM

23. Oligarchs are it, Baby.

Thomas Friedman’s, wife, fir instance. Billionaire shopping mall heiress.

The guy, the NYT, and most all of the world answer to the Almighty Dollar.

An unvarnished analysis from the socialist camp on how “librul media” TF and NYT put the profit ahead of the pandemic way back in March 2020.

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2020/03/24/pers-m24.html

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