I'm sorry, but bring back death penalty in New York! I know I will be flamed for this.

[toesonthenose]

Some cases that are just so heinous and it is undeniable who the perpetrator was should be subject to the death penalty. I don't care that it brings us to their level or the other arguments against it. This piece of shit in New York does not deserve to spend the rest of his life in prison probably being treated like a king because Aryan Brotherhood and who knows who else in prison will have his back. He is going to be getting free Oreos from the canteen because of his martyr status with them. Meanwhile, families of the victims are going to have to pay for it in taxes. To hell with that. I think it should be an extremely rare event when capital punishment is used given its penchant for being applied for horrendous reasons like racism or god forbid, innocent people getting executed. But there are just some cases where it is deserved, and we know it is 100% the right person. This shit stain needs to go bye bye.

[USALiberal]

1. Nope !! You must love China, lots of executions! Nt

[Torchlight]

7. lol ok nt

[toesonthenose]

9. Actually I do love China.

I find their history fascinating and would love the chance to visit there. Do I agree with their current government, absolutely not. But I think comparing what I am saying to how China handles executions and capital punishment are two separate things. But to go the route of saying, you must be a China Lover sounds like something I would hear at a Drumpf rally.

[MineralMan]

2. I am totally opposed to the death penalty in all cases.

The state should not be executing anyone. Period. Innocent people have been executed. If only one innocent person is killed out of 1000 guilty ones, that is far too many.

Imprison people who commit heinous crimes for life. Let them rot in prison and consider why they are there for the rest of their lives.

Don't just kill them. That is too easy and too ugly for our society to do.

[toesonthenose]

12. Have to disagree with you on this one

But I must honestly say, I do love your posts and agree with you the overwhelming amount of time. An innocent person being executed is the worst of the worst, and I agree with you 100% about that. And I am not sure how to work it so that it never happens. It just infuriates me that this literal piece of shit, I won't call him human, will get to live out his days probably being treated like a king. And who knows, one day may even walk free. But I do understand the argument about innocent people being executed. Not denying that has happened and of course would be something I hope would never happen again.

[MineralMan]

14. Why would you think he'd be "treated like a king" in prison?

I doubt that very, very much. He is not a celebrity. He is not a wealthy person. He will be treated as a prisoner is treated, which is far from a wonderful experience, based on my reading.

Since he murdered innocent black people, he will not be popular with the prison population, either, and is pretty likely to be targeted by them. It will not be a good way to live at all. It will be punishing and frightening, instead.

My opposition to capital punishment is based on my philosophy and principles, rather than my emotions about a particular case.

[gab13by13]

24. I could not agree more with your opinion,

When god was going to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah if they could find 5 upright people he would spare the cities.

If the death penalty kills one innocent person that's reason to abolish it.

[MineralMan]

35. Well, my philosophical principles go even beyond that.

I do not believe that society, as represented by our government, should kill people who are arrested and tried for their crimes. That becomes legalized murder, I believe. I am fine with imprisoning people for the rest of their lives who commit heinous crimes like murder, but I'm opposed to the government killing people after the fact of that crime.

I abhor warfare, as well, but I do understand that people are during it. That more or less falls under the principle of self-defense on the parts of soldiers. I also do not oppose killings of people caught in the act of murder, by those who are present at that time. Defending the lives of others in an immediate circumstance makes sense, also due to self-defense and a response to a lethal attack on another person at the time.

My opposition to capital punishment is based on the killing of someone who has been taken into custody after the lethal criminal act has occurred. Then, the person who killed someone else is no longer capable of killing others. The state should not be able to murder people intentionally who are no longer in a position to commit another such crime. That is a voluntary act not in the defense of anyone. It is simply revenge punishment that ends another person's life.

Lock them up. Remove them from society. Permanently in many cases. Make them consider their actions again and again for the rest of their lives. If necessary, confine them in solitary confinement if they post a danger to others who are imprisoned, or to those who work in the prison.

Just don't kill them for revenge. That only perpetuates the killing.

That is my philosophy. Others might not agree with it, but I hold firm in it.

[Maeve]

45. That is pretty much the position I have come to, as well

If the state authorizes revenge killing, it encourages revenge killing. It also encourages the de-humanization of the "other"; mass killers get that way by de-humanizing their victims. Is that really what we want the state to do?

[MineralMan]

54. Yes. I believe it sets up a very poor environment.

Most of Europe has eliminated the death penalty, and sees far less violence within the population. I believe we should learn from that and revise our system of punishment for crimes. There is much opposition to that, though, and we continue to be an armed and violent society. At some point, we must make major changes, it seems to me.

[USALiberal]

44. Lol, "treated like a king"???

[Buckeyeblue]

36. I agree with you

DP is not uniformly dispensed. And the justice system is not set up well to correct incorrect guilty verdicts. We've had too many instances of people being sentenced to death or life sentences that turn out to be innocent.

I do think at any point in time someone sentenced to life or what will amount to life should be able to end their own life in a controlled, humane manner.

[PatSeg]

37. Yes, I totally agree with you

Capital punishment is state sanctioned murder, which I find absolutely unnerving. Killing people for killing people? I'd hoped we had evolved more than that.

Also, who can say with any certainty what happens when we die? Are we really punishing criminals with the death sentence or perhaps giving them a way out? If you cannot define the punishment, it cannot be called justice. It is more retribution, revenge meant to make others feel better. However, we do know what life in prison is and personally I can't think of a worse punishment. To me that is akin to hell.

[MineralMan]

56. I agree with all of that.

Personally, I believe that our lives are finite, and that we exist only as long as we live.

[PatSeg]

58. Yes, there are so many beliefs about death,

it is hardly reasonable to sentence someone based on unprovable belief systems.

[Patton French]

57. This 100% (N/T)

[multigraincracker]

3. 10 to 15% of those put to death are

Found to have been innocent. Most of them are people of Color.
So I think, to make sure only guilty are put to death, we need a safety catch. If anyone is put to death and then new evidence is found, then the judge, prosecutor and jury shall be given life without parole in jail. Kind of a safe guard to make sure there’s no shadow of doubt.

[Demsrule86]

42. No ...never happen. NO DEATH PENALTY. It is barbaric and will be used to kill minorities...

some of whom will be innocent.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

4. Abolish the death penalty.

I'm sorry,

Why?

Some cases that are just so heinous and it is undeniable who the perpetrator was should be subject to the death penalty.

Why?

Meanwhile, families of the victims are going to have to pay for it in taxes.

Who pays for the much more expensive death penalty process?

I think it should be an extremely rare event when capital punishment is used given its penchant for being applied for horrendous reasons like racism or god forbid, innocent people getting executed.

If the death penalty exists, it will be used against innocent people and disproportionately.

[Demsrule86]

39. I am against the death penalty for any reason.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

5. I won't flame you,

but I respectfully disagree with you.

[Mariana]

6. You think it should be an extremely rare event when capital punishment is used

but in reality, that's just not how it works. If the death penalty is available, you can be sure that it will be misused, and innocent people will be executed sooner or later.

For the record, it costs more to execute someone than it does to lock them up for life.

[Haggard Celine]

34. That's what I told my dad and now he's against

capital punishment too. I had always been against it and he and I were discussing it once and I told him that, moral arguments aside, it costs us more to execute someone than it does to simply lock them up for life. He looked it up and found out that was true and now he and I agree that we shouldn't have capital punishment.

[Bev54]

8. Irrational and emotional - death penalty is not the answer.

[sarisataka]

10. Consider yourself flamed

Welcome to DU

[toesonthenose]

13. I guess it is a rite of passage. Thank you for the welcome, you are actually the first!

I was feeling a bit left out but you made my day better so thank you!

[sarisataka]

16. Since you are new I thought

I'd let you off easy. Next time I'll tear into ya
Unless we are of the same opinion on a different subject

[toesonthenose]

40. Thank you for your kindness. Like the Roman emperor giving the thumbs up at the end of the fight! HA

[MarineCombatEngineer]

18. Let me be the 2nd to say

welcome to DU.

[toesonthenose]

41. Thank you very much, and thank you even more for your service!

[Ohio Joe]

11. I don't think revenge should be what our justice system should be about...

Prevention and rehabilitation… We should be working far more than we are on the causes and solving them.

[TreasonousBastard]

19. Absolutely. It's the "justice" system.

[Scrivener7]

15. Forget that it's just wrong. It costs a ton more taxpayer's money than life in prison. So no.

[Celerity]

17. de rec nt

[demmiblue]

20. No.

[Tommy Carcetti]

21. The shooter's life is already over for all intents and purposes.

He’ll never see another day of freedom in his life—which given his age means potentially decades—and when he dies, he’ll be long forgotten and obscure.

That’s fine by me.

[Aristus]

22. No. Let him live the rest of his life in prison.

He's eighteen years old. Let him live a long life confined to a cage. Let him live a long life of bitter, unending regret for the life he could have had on the outside, free, unfettered, charting his own course. Let him live a long life of fear and unending terror, looking over his shoulder, wondering if today in the exercise yard his number will be up.

People always say in these cases that the family needs the death penalty for "closure".

I think that's bullshit. Put him to death, and he's over; he's out of it. He's gone. Put him in prison, and the family members will have the rest of this animal's natural life to draw satisfaction that, although he is alive, his life is effectively over.

[Walleye]

23. It is uncivilized for a government to commit a cold-blooded killing

And this being a government of the people that means I am participating in a cold blooded killing.
I do understand your sentiment however, I just don’t think it’s the answer. It is always selectively enforced as well. Timothy McVeigh was executed did that put a stop to anything. As much as we like to call these people monsters and animals, they are human beings. This is what human beings are capable of. We need to admit that. Hatred is like a virus. Now that I’ve had my say. Welcome to DU. I respect your opinion

[Mysterian]

25. Governments are very often corrupt and incompetent

You want to give government the power of life and death?

Not me.

[hamsterjill]

26. I don't know the right answer

But I damn sure understand your anger.

[gab13by13]

27. Plus the fact that the death penalty does not deter others.

[milestogo]

28. Our criminal justice system is far too imperfect

to use something so irreversible.

[edhopper]

29. Because the system would always be far from perfect

you must accept that innocent people will be put to death.
I assume you are not okay with that?

[toesonthenose]

43. Of course not. Not at all. But there is no chance of that in this case

Look, I certainly understand that, and many other arguments against the death penalty. I am not marginalizing those at all. I just know in this specific case, none of those apply.
I guess I can take solace that in prison hopefully he won't have it so well. I know it is a horrible existence, and will just have to live with that being his entire future.

[Mariana]

60. The laws aren't written for this specific case. They apply to every case.

No death penalty law will ever be written that will sentence people to death only when you think it's right. But you want it brought back anyway, so apparently you're willing to sacrifice those people.

[edhopper]

61. There are innocent people who have been put to death

Because their case so obviously warranted the death penalty.
It would never be reserved for only people caught in the act of a shooting spree.

[dalton99a]

30. Let him rot in general population

[pressbox69]

31. No

As much as I despise the murdering punk, I can't forget how a certain NY 1% celebrity called for executing the Central Park 5 who were proven to be innocent. Maybe if some 1% scum were strapped to old sparky and zapped with 10,000 volts the idea may sound more appealing but until that happens we will have to settle for 1% criminals and psychos succumbing to the Jeffrey Epstein disease. Other than that, watch the JOKER movie and cheer every time you hear or see KILL THE RICH!

[JohnSJ]

32. It is unfortunate that the perpetrator was taken alive, but I would have no problem if an accident

befalls him in prison

[dalton99a]

33. +1

[sarisataka]

55. It is interesting how in general

We oppose the death penalty unless it is administered extra judicially. That seems to be far more acceptable.

[Demsrule86]

38. No state murder is still murder. No!

[spanone]

46. More death is not the answer.

👎🏼

[thatdemguy]

47. Let him rot, but first

Lets make prison a not nice place to be. No tv except what comes in over the air waves, ie no cable tv. Make the prisoners' work for their food, no sports activity, no weights. Nothing but a yard to walk around in for an hour a day, crappy but nutritional food.

I dont mean this for people with short sentences although I would not object to it. I have read enough stories written by people who have gone to jail where they state "its 3 hots and a cot".

Having talked to people who have done long prison sentences ( I try to give them jobs and talk about it to see if I should hire em ) they say it just becomes life, its just a small city where your looking over your shoulder more than on the out side. They say the first few months to a year sucks, then it just becomes their life. One guy actually told me he kind of preferred it in prison, and he is the one who told me it should be "less nice". His words not mine, and he still works for me after doing 9 years in prison.

[Sympthsical]

48. We didn't ban it to save the guilty

We ban it to save the innocent.

[BlackSkimmer]

49. This. nt

[johnp3907]

50. No.

And I’m NOT sorry.

[nuxvomica]

51. HRC once said "I don't believe you change hearts, I believe you change laws"

Implicit in that remark as that Americans, for all their failings, believe in the sanctity of the law and when the system of laws progresses past public opinion, polling often shows the latter catching up, sometimes quickly. Given such a dynamic in our society, I believe that the existence of a death penalty has a moral effect on the people, cheapening human life and giving license to violence as a solution to problems. I think we ignore this effect at our peril.

[marmar]

52. It's easy to get wrapped up in the emotion of a particular event, but....

...... I oppose the death penalty without equivocation. A society doesn't get better by doing the thing it purports to hold in contempt. Let the little f***** rot in prison forever.

[onenote]

53. Should the decision to impose the death penalty be subjective?

You say it should be extremely rare, but you offer no standard for when it should or shouldn't be used. The Buffalo murders are horrific. But what about someone who rapes and murders a child? Would that meet your test? You want to start down a slippery slope but you don't offer any guidelines other than your gut reaction.

[Mariana]

59. It never gets implemented the way people like the OP think it should be. nt.