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Where Are the Goddamn Men?
http://www.smirkingchimp.com/thread/robert-lipsyte/101647/where-are-the-goddamn-menWhere Are the Goddamn Men?
Abortion Rights | Social Justice and Activism
by Robert Lipsyte | May 20, 2022 - 6:25am
— from TomDispatch
For 50 years now, people have told desperate, heart-breaking stories about what it was like to search for an abortion in the days before Roe v. Wade. These were invariably narratives of women in crisis. They sometimes involved brief discussions about economic inequality, police-state intrigue, and unwanted children, but for the most part men were invisible in them, missing in action. Where were they? And where are they now that a wall of fundamental rights seems to be crumbling away not just for women, but for all of us? This is another example of what I used to call the Bystander Boys.
snip//
It's time, though, for the boys to become men, to step out on the streets, organize, demonstrate, march (maybe wearing knitted penis caps), guard clinics, escort patients, make noise. Older men like me who can evoke the terrible pre-Roe days should tell their stories, at least to their grandsons, especially the ones who claim that their impractical progressive ideals prohibit them from voting in lesser-of-two-evils elections (too common these days, it seems.)
Just hold your nose, sonny, if it means doing the right thing.
And perhaps it's most important to keep reminding ourselves and everyone we know that abortion isn't the whole abortion story, that the bullies are preparing to go after the entire schoolyard, not just the girls, and (as has become so common these days) they're going to stomp into the school-board meeting as well. Sooner or later, they'll try to take over the school itself and, eventually, the mind and soul of this country thanks to the holes they're about to tear in the Constitution. There are more of us than them and, if we stand together and fight, we can still win. No place for bystanders now.
© 2022 TomDispatch.com
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CrackityJones75
(2,403 posts)
Ferrets are Cool
(22,957 posts)
Scrivener7
(59,521 posts)
hamsterjill
(17,577 posts)SMH…
Hekate
(100,133 posts)I have a lifetime of having it implied that I needed to be mild and conciliatory when asserting women’s place at the policy table, because everything to do with me was a “woman’s issue” and “women’s issues” are by definition of lesser importance. And being of lesser importance — to assert them was “divisive.”
Not that I always heeded that after I grew up, but it ate at me.
I am eternally grateful for the women who never listened to that crap, women like Nancy Pelosi.
For this today, thank you kpete:
CrackityJones75
(2,403 posts)I have stood and counter protested at planned Parenthood. I have walked a friend there. I have witnessed MANY other men there. I KNOW there are a lot of “God Damned Men” that are and have been fighting this for 50 years. All men? Nope. All women fighting for this too? Nope. This division garbage has got to stop. It really doesn’t help. We need good people to fight this crap. And at every turn no matter what the issue we always frame the issue to damn the very allies that are needed to fight it.
Let me be clear I don’t want or need a pat on the back, vut what I don’t think we need to do is start talking about the god damned men. The evil fucks that pull this shit? Yeah that’s a better person to call out.
Sorry if I ruffled some feathers with my response. But my circle of friends include men, women, and non-binary people, good people, that are fighting. And reading something about the “God Damned Men” who would bloody themselves over this shit is extremely offensive.
momta
(4,197 posts)My husband, my son, all of my brothers, hell even my guitar teacher are all good men who have been out there fighting for women's reproductive rights as recently as two weeks ago.
Also, there are god damned women like Blackburn, Barrett, etc., who are out there trying to throw us back into the dark ages!
CrackityJones75
(2,403 posts)Lunabell
(7,309 posts)do you automatically get defensive too? I don't, because I'm not one of them. You protest too much, me thinks.
deelee
(41 posts)Women in America are not.
Maybe not by number but by treatment, we are. Besides, that argument doesn't hold water. But, play the victim if you like...
femmedem
(8,561 posts)I have no idea why. You didn't deserve it. I hope it doesn't prevent you from posting more often.
CrackityJones75
(2,403 posts)More than a few times I have felt like I was going to get beaten at rallies and protests. As a white man at those I know my place is there to be a supporter, it isn’t my place to lead anything. I am there to have people’s back. I have seen white people confronted when they are there trying to support and I have seen some verbally and physically attacked. I know enough that at these events emotions are raw and none of this is going to change with just a group of people singing kumbaya. That’s why I think that the people that are (thankfully) trying to lead need to be careful with their words.
dixiechiken1
(2,113 posts)
Response to dixiechiken1 (Reply #6)
Post removed
demmiblue
(39,719 posts)He's so obvious.
CrackityJones75
(2,403 posts)
Coventina
(29,731 posts)
Tom Kitten
(7,372 posts)
AllyCat
(18,842 posts)CrackityJones75
(2,403 posts)I have escorted. Vandalia and university avenue in Saint Paul, MN.
OldBaldy1701E
(11,142 posts)I have business in that area at least a few times a week, and all I ever see that bunch doing is listlessly wandering around the sidewalk in their pink vests. Hell, sometimes they are lucky and have more than five people there. It is a shame that we have to deal with such zealotry over something that is none of their business, but when a certain class of people think they are gawd-given to the world... well...
CrackityJones75
(2,403 posts)Or at least the last time I was there they were much weirder.
There was the one guy wearing the monks robe that would show up quite frequently. One day I was there and the grandma that was always there had her grandchild with her there, it was like 40 degrees and raining and she has this poor kid out there with her. Just awful.
You aren’t supposed to provoke them or engage with them. And they are mostly pretty tame but they harass people coming and going trying to give them literature and sometimes they get mouthy.
My mother in law is a huge influence on me as well. She is very involved with the womens shelter and clinic up in Duluth. I know that more men need to be educated. Many are largely ignorant or indoctrinated with garbage christian rhetoric. I just think that it is the wrong tact to start talking about the god damned men. It isn’t just this issue that this type of tact fails.
OldBaldy1701E
(11,142 posts)I always wanted to ask the child, "Are you here because you do not like abortions or are you here because your parent dragged you here?" And that monk guy. At first I thought he was a real one, but now I am not so sure. Yes, they get mouthy, but I am surprised that the people entering the building for services don't just laugh hysterically at those loons on their way inside. Of course, that might provoke them, which would assure that their crap would stop. The police would never let them stay there after there were disruptions and assaults, now would they? (Slight sarcasm here as I have no idea what the SPPD would do.) Those people are still there trying to destroy a health clinic, so they may not want to do much.
CrackityJones75
(2,403 posts)I used to sometimes pull up on the curb, open the windows, turn on AM 950 and eat my lunch. That usually got me some looks. The clinic really doesn’t want or need any conflicts going on outside their office though.
I am not sure how the SPPD would react. By and large they are MUCH better than the Minneapolis cops. But there are some real winners in that bunch.
OldBaldy1701E
(11,142 posts)Eh, the job sort of pulls in those types that are too wimpy to be the badass they think they are so they go get a job where they can have authority magically given to them as opposed to earning it. Inevitable aspect of the profession I suppose.
BlackSkimmer
(51,308 posts)
Emile
(42,289 posts)to step up and fight with the women!
There’s a penis in every pregnancy.
Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin
(135,697 posts)At first glance it seemed "fight with the women" meant being opposed to women.
Emile
(42,289 posts)LOL sorry.
Fullduplexxx
(8,626 posts)And I hope the cons back off but really the only fix is gonna be elect more Democrats because they dont care . They may back off to some midway point but they're coming for all of it
mopinko
(73,726 posts)he wrote a blog post in '16 titled- "naked in the public square" that described his gf's abortion, and what he did to help her. my catholic family nearly hung him. but they knew the woman involved, and knew it would have been a disaster.
we def need more of them.
Silent3
(15,909 posts)Even if many of those people don't want Roe overturned, that apparently doesn't rise to a high level of importance to them when they vote.
There are, of course, plenty of male Democrats who are fighting for reproductive rights, but I'm not sure what form of action the author of the OP is expecting to see as evidence of this fight. The majority of the country is guilty of not considering judicial appointments an important political issue.
The far right has maniacally focused on the courts, while only a few of us, many here on DU, were screaming to little effect that everyone else needed to pay more attention.
As for now, there's probably not much anyone can do than watch Roe fall and get ready to pick of the pieces and restore women's health and reproductive rights as quickly as possible.
I'm very afraid we're likely headed for a stretch of dark times with many lost freedoms, and it might be a long time before we can bring our freedoms back.
calimary
(90,017 posts)at this moment, I don’t see it going down any other way.
BumRushDaShow
(169,745 posts)Thankfully our President and his staff DO realize it is an "important political issue", where in just under 1.5 years into his first term, he has had 67 judges & a SCOTUS Justice confirmed (including 2 district court judges yesterday although not updated at this link at post time - https://www.uscourts.gov/judges-judgeships/judicial-vacancies/confirmation-listing)
https://www.acslaw.org/judicial-nominations/on-the-bench/
And although we missed out on bolstering our liberal presence on the SCOTUS save for now-Justice Ketanji Brown-Jackson, 99% of the cases never go to the SCOTUS and are decided at an Appeals Court. And in this case, this will be the most diverse set of judiciary nominations and confirmations in the history of this nation.
So we trudge on and as long as we have a bare majority in the Senate, we gotta keep funneling these through!
Scrivener7
(59,521 posts)
Oneironaut
(6,299 posts)The Republican “President” in charge will demand everyone in both parties kiss the ring. The only legitimate elections will be those that Republicans win. Social / racial minorities will be terrorized daily by new laws, e.g. investigating parents of trans kids and throwing them in jail, women being jailed for miscarriages, back-alley abortions, anti-education measures (e.g. teaching Christianity as fact, cameras in classrooms), marriage being between a man and a woman, etc. Anyone who the President does not approve of will never win an election, even if they truly win.
This is not some paranoid dream - all of these things are being done or are showing signs of being done. We’re very close to Fascism.
Demovictory9
(37,113 posts)smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)them due to the extreme risk of pregnancy. If they think it's hard getting laid now, just wait.
LiberatedUSA
(1,666 posts)…saying no won’t be an option. If the end result is a country run entirely by white, Christian males, then it is going to get very ugly.
Slightly to the side of this topic, as to the difficulty of getting laid, that is a problem with “nice guys”. They use term “get lucky”, because for them finding someone that will sleep with them is a “once in a blue moon” thing.
These types are the types that become incels.
They think acting nice grants them I Owe U Sex coupons. When the prospective date decides her store isn’t honoring those imaginary coupons, Mr Nice Guy becomes less nice. The “I got lucky” types don’t understand it isn’t a transaction and never will. The only society they can get it in without it being total random luck she says yes, is a society it sure looks like the GOP has in mind after a few years of court rulings and stolen elections.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)I am beginning to worry about that too, since whatever few rights women do have seem to be rapidly taken away. Very few rapists are ever met with justice now. It will get even worse after this goes into effect.
LiberatedUSA
(1,666 posts)…and that helps them “win” in 2022 and 2024, and they have the Supreme Court, then they can:
Dumb down public education
Teach history as they see it
Take us back to a time when only white males had rights
Find away to get past freedom of religion after destroying rights for women, minorities and LGBTQ.
They want grunts working that are uneducated and stuck in poverty producing white babies. In that scenario I don’t imagine a woman’s voiced “I don’t want to have sex with you” would not carry the legal weight with legal consequences for ignoring rejection that it does right now. After all, how can property speak its mind (not my belief, just summarizing theirs)?
Their version of hell on Earth won’t last long, as everyone will be dying off due to food shortages from the war and climate change.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)I never imagined things could get so bad in my lifetime, but now I can easily see how they will.
frogmarch
(12,251 posts)a male DUer made a post in support of women and abortion rights - and was promptly told in so many words to mind his own business.
Scrivener7
(59,521 posts) frogmarch
(12,251 posts)Scrivener7
(59,521 posts)what it really means is, "Admire me! Do not suggest I am not perfect!"
NO ONE in that thread did anything even a little close to telling him to mind his own business. I, for one, said it was a time for men to be careful not to be telling women what to do.
And poor you. Nuance is hard. "That's coming from a good place, but it would be better to do it in a way that doesn't tell women what to do" sounds JUST like, "Mind your own business."
Are men REALLY so delicate?
frogmarch
(12,251 posts)By the way, I'm a woman.
Scrivener7
(59,521 posts)You are talking about something that isn't anywhere in your example.
Response to Scrivener7 (Reply #27)
frogmarch This message was self-deleted by its author.
frogmarch
(12,251 posts)explicitly told the male poster to mind his own business. That was my take on a few of the replies to his post. He was told that by encouraging his sisters to stand up for their rights, he, a man, was telling them what to do.
Bye, now.
BannonsLiver
(20,594 posts)You Brought the receipts.
Scrivener7
(59,521 posts)
BannonsLiver
(20,594 posts)
BlackSkimmer
(51,308 posts)Obvious.
Wiscodoug
(109 posts)The men I know (including myself) are happy to help. I have marched and I vote in every election. Say the word and I am there with my sisters and brothers in this struggle and any other total b.s. crap the rebublicants tries pulling on us.
hamsterjill
(17,577 posts)You are appreciated!
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)We appreciate men like you. 
squiregeek
(10 posts)I'm old enough to have helped friends get safe abortions before Roe. I'm ready to do it again. And medical advances make it easier to do and safer still.
hamsterjill
(17,577 posts)You are appreciated, as well.
Sympthsical
(10,969 posts)See, this is one of those articles where the first question I'm asking is, "Who is the author writing this for?" It's antagonistic, hectoring, lecturing, condescending, and looking down.
Is this for men? Or is this for people who spend a great deal of time haranguing men? Is this a persuasive article meant to enlist allyship, or is this someone leaning over to a friend they know already agrees with them and saying, "Man, those people really suck, don't they?"
One thing I've noted in contemporary online discourse - and this goes with any issue, not just abortion - is how ostensible attempts to increase support, persuade, and gain allies seems geared to do nothing of the sort. "We've insulted people all day, and they still won't join us. I'm all out of ideas."
Is it persuasion or commiseration? If I were a man uninterested in the abortion issue, I wouldn't have made it two paragraphs into this thing.
I do think men need to be more involved in all this. I've already posted what I intend to do (once finals are over, please God). But I think how the issue is discussed needs to be reworked. I get the anger, frustration, and fear of our current circumstances, but we've just witnessed a month-long, "Shut up, men. I don't want to hear from you. Don't say a word. This is all your fault." Which fine.
But what's the next step now? Because that attitude isn't going to increase numbers.
This is a nod and applaud bit of hectoring. It's not an attempt at solutions or productivity. So, clap clap. You've changed nothing, mister author.
SunImp
(2,705 posts)Lots of that goes around here mostly by people who believe their little groups' opinions are 100% correct and that they should be catered to all the time.
progressoid
(53,179 posts)CrackityJones75
(2,403 posts)
Raster
(21,010 posts)
hamsterjill
(17,577 posts)And your sisters have your backs, too!
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts) 
2naSalit
(102,788 posts)Everything is right there, in your face so you really can't be a bystander in this, allegedly, participatory governing system.
DBoon
(24,983 posts)BannonsLiver
(20,594 posts)
raccoon
(32,390 posts)DBoon
(24,983 posts)I draw the line at "wearing knitted penis caps".
Here is the Activate America link : https://www.mobilize.us/activateamerica/event/458420/
ymetca
(1,182 posts)and his name is Joe Manchin.
That's one white guy who definitely needs to be replaced, and we would all appreciate it if the Great State of West Virginia could put a woman in that seat.
So yeah, I'm fully supportive of some kind of Great Replacement taking place in the Senate.
Every Democrat not fully on-board with full reproductive rights should have their support and funding cut off right effin' now.
Lunabell
(7,309 posts)It's like when white people who get offended when black people get pissed about racist white people. I don't get offended because I'm not one.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)either, because I don't think I am one of the people they are talking about. And yes, like all white people, I have some responsibility and could do better, but I am mostly an ally.
I have to think that when certain white people or certain men get offended by these posts, it's because they feel guilty at being complicit with the offenders. Either they are one of them or they support them. But they are not on the side of justice for the person or group airing their grievances.
deelee
(41 posts)You have the majority of the electorate.
You have the full support of a large percentage of men.
You have the power to change everything.
Stop pointing fingers and let's get to work.
