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Yavin4

(35,438 posts)
Sat May 21, 2022, 12:12 AM May 2022

The 7 things Americans have to fund on their own as adults

1. Food
2. Clothing
3. Healthcare (Even if your jobs covers some of your premiums, you still have co-pays.)
4. Housing
5. Transportation (Most of America is highly car dependent. Public transportation is either unreliable or non-existent.)
6. Higher education (Even if you choose not to go to college, you need some sort of post-HS educational training to make a middle class wage.)
7. Retirement

The median American income is $31K. The median household income is approx. $65K. Americans cannot afford to be debt-free, independent adults. It's not mathematically possible to do so. No matter where you live. No matter what you do. Chances are, you will live your 20s, 30s, possibly 40s, possibly beyond in debt. Even if you don't eat avocado toast or subscribe to Netflix.

This more so than anything else explains our political, cultural, racial, and gender divides in this country. In Europe, four of those items are paid for collectively. Yes, you may pay somewhat more in taxes, but you're not in debt which forces you take jobs that you may not want to do, but do because of healthcare.

Oh, one last thing. Did you notice? I didn't even include childcare on that list. I left it off on purpose because including it would belabor the point.

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The 7 things Americans have to fund on their own as adults (Original Post) Yavin4 May 2022 OP
Good post Deuxcents May 2022 #1
Looked at some numbers Old Crank May 2022 #2
I'm surprised the average is not a lot more than 66k... brush May 2022 #6
Manny Billionaires Old Crank May 2022 #9
We have about 660 billionaires jimfields33 May 2022 #10
It is. Igel May 2022 #20
Large metro areas tend to pay more bc of cost of living Yavin4 May 2022 #13
K&R smirkymonkey May 2022 #3
Bingo SM DENVERPOPS May 2022 #4
The thing is that we demanded 15 dollars an hour. jimfields33 May 2022 #11
Well, DENVERPOPS May 2022 #17
And all the D. C. f'n lawmakers... Septua May 2022 #5
We can change it BUT it's going to take a lot of work AntivaxHunters May 2022 #7
Why include food, clothing, and housing on the list? Dial H For Hero May 2022 #8
Not everything should be paid for collectively. Yavin4 May 2022 #14
Be wary of the "Europe is Paradise" theme. It has many pitfalls and inconvenient truths. DFW May 2022 #12
There is no such thing as Paradise but there is such a thing as Hell. Yavin4 May 2022 #15
+1 n/t area51 May 2022 #16
debt is what we have instead of a social safety net DBoon May 2022 #18
Exactly. Mentally and physically, debt makes people feel out of control. Yavin4 May 2022 #19

Old Crank

(3,582 posts)
2. Looked at some numbers
Sat May 21, 2022, 01:42 AM
May 2022

For 2019 the median wage is closer to $36 K, and family $69K. Your point is still valid. That is not enough to properly fund the essential things in life.
One note to show the difference between median, half above half below, and average is the average income in 2019 was close to $66k. This shows how skewed our income ladder is.

brush

(53,776 posts)
6. I'm surprised the average is not a lot more than 66k...
Sat May 21, 2022, 03:49 AM
May 2022

Last edited Sat May 21, 2022, 03:28 PM - Edit history (1)

what with all the high-profile billionaires' incomes skewing the average. They need to be taxed like they were in the '50s went the nation, at least the white part of it, was prospering so well.

That would put a stop to their one-uping each other with vanity space flights.

Old Crank

(3,582 posts)
9. Manny Billionaires
Sat May 21, 2022, 07:30 AM
May 2022

Don't show much income on a yearly basis. Their gains are from capital gains which is not directly taxed as income. Plus they take loans against holdings and pay intetest at a low rate vs direct salary at the high rate.

Igel

(35,300 posts)
20. It is.
Sat May 21, 2022, 06:11 PM
May 2022

Average household income for 2019, according to one source (that was pretty similar to the median figures cited above) was $89.9k/yr.

Median =/= mean.

Yavin4

(35,438 posts)
13. Large metro areas tend to pay more bc of cost of living
Sat May 21, 2022, 10:50 AM
May 2022

and that pulls up the average by a lot which is why median is a better indicator.

 

smirkymonkey

(63,221 posts)
3. K&R
Sat May 21, 2022, 02:02 AM
May 2022

Costs are getting exponentially higher and my salary is not. Housing is out of control in this country. Something has to give eventually.

DENVERPOPS

(8,820 posts)
4. Bingo SM
Sat May 21, 2022, 02:18 AM
May 2022

The amount of inflation these past two years has dwarfed ANY increase in minimum wages by far........

Increases in inflation these past couple of years, is only exceeded by the record breaking Corporate Profits.............

Welcome to the Corporate Fascist Tyranny.................Instead of USA it will be the United Corporations of America......

(Fascism's simplest definition is the merger of Government and Corporations......)

Trump and Senate Republicans, along with Republican governors have taken us to the threshold, and now they are about to pound their way in to everyone's homes and destroy the lives of everyone except the top 1/10th of one percent......

jimfields33

(15,793 posts)
11. The thing is that we demanded 15 dollars an hour.
Sat May 21, 2022, 08:11 AM
May 2022

I think a lot of companies went that route. They did as we asked.

Septua

(2,255 posts)
5. And all the D. C. f'n lawmakers...
Sat May 21, 2022, 02:28 AM
May 2022

..make a $175,000 a year. They're in the top 10 percentile of earners. No wonder they want to keep their jobs. Most of 'em couldn't make the median salary in the private sector.

 

AntivaxHunters

(3,234 posts)
7. We can change it BUT it's going to take a lot of work
Sat May 21, 2022, 06:35 AM
May 2022

Last edited Sat May 21, 2022, 07:09 AM - Edit history (2)

Lots of people are very manipulated (marked out hard) & too comfortable in their current lifestyle to really care, sadly.
And anyone who's seen and watched the fight for single payer Medicare For All has witnessed exactly what I'm talking about. It's just a matter of time until this country has things like M4A or true living wages & not this $15/hr decade old out of date figure.

We live in very interesting times and it's young people who will bring about the change we so badly need.
Thank God for them! And they're just now beginning to come power.
It's about the only hope that I have left. And it's perhaps the only thing that's going to change this country drastically & truly make this country what it's supposed to be - a place for everyone based on love, compassion, & empathy for others.

If you're on Twitter, I highly recommend following these people below. There's of course many more but I can only post so much...Many young people right now for office at all levels of government all across the country & it's absolutely beautiful! --👇🏽




















?s=20&t=2hJNvAdQ6OpNOcEtRGkQ_A
 

Dial H For Hero

(2,971 posts)
8. Why include food, clothing, and housing on the list?
Sat May 21, 2022, 06:45 AM
May 2022

Is anyone (seriously) arguing that adults should have these paid for collectively?

Yavin4

(35,438 posts)
14. Not everything should be paid for collectively.
Sat May 21, 2022, 10:54 AM
May 2022

However, if some things, like higher ed, healthcare, and transportation, are collectively paid for, that makes it much easier on people to pay for food, clothing, and housing. See most European nations and some Asian nations as examples.

DFW

(54,372 posts)
12. Be wary of the "Europe is Paradise" theme. It has many pitfalls and inconvenient truths.
Sat May 21, 2022, 08:22 AM
May 2022

Health care is different in every country, and here in Germany, it is not only not free of cost, but hundreds of thousands of people have no health care at all because they fall through the bureaucratic cracks. There is a two-tier class health insurance system in Germany. Assuming you are covered, you are either a "Kassenpatient," which is their common second class insurance, or "Privatpatient," or first class. Private means you pay up front and try to get it back from your insurer later. It usually works, but often doesn't I asked about health insurance when I moved my permanent residence here. I was quoted about $35,000 a year in insurance premiums, and that was 11 years ago. They still balk at much dental or "unnecessary (they determine that, you don't) " work. Kassenpatienten, a category to which my wife belongs, means you ask for an appointment, and they give you one when they feel like it. That is often months in advance, and long waiting times at the doctor's office. Figuring on paying many dental bills yourself. Maybe there are some internet sites that claim what a paradise it is here, but here on the ground, reality is what it is.

Housing is expensive, often cramped, and it's difficult to find someone to do repairs, whether on rentals or privately owned homes. There are "Obdachlosensiedlungen," or homeless residences, but people are expected to get out and fend for themselves eventually. No one gets in for a free permanent stay. Some manage to game the system, of course. A client of my wife's managed to get a practically rent-free "Sozialwohnung," or subsidized apartment. He fathered fifteen children (she had to count them), and with the extra government-subsidized "child money," rented the apartment next door--for himself. His wife and the children stayed in the original apartment. Her agency went to court to cut the guy's welfare payments, and were shot down by the judge, who said the guy's claims were legitimate, and that "tolerance” had to be shown. The guy left the courtroom grinning like a Cheshire cat. Her fellow social workers wanted to scream.

Higher education is mostly covered by tax money, although the costs are starting to explode to the point where the government is often introducing the equivalent of a “co-pay.” Plus, there is a very elitist system, almost Darwinian, at least here in Germany, where your grades alone determine whether or not you get to study what you want. The so-called “numerus clausus” means that if you want to study medicine, but are a tenth of a point off on your grade average, you either apply abroad (at your own cost), or wait years to get a slot, or get told to forget it altogether. The arbitrary, impersonal German education system prompted both of my daughters, German citizens and smart enough, to ask me if they could apply for college in the USA instead. I was fortunate enough to have come into an inheritance that permitted me to allow that, but most Germans, obviously, do not have that option.

And, finally, retirement, presumably the fourth “collectively financed” on the list. What you pay in largely determines what is paid out, unless you are a government employee or (even better) a former elected official. Top former elected officials, especially EU bureaucrats, get lifetime, tax-free pensions in up to solid five figures. Even normal civil servants get very livable pensions. My wife, on the other hand, gets a “generous” €850 a month plus a tiny “disability” supplement for being a two time cancer victim. Maybe €1025 altogether, or $1100--before taxes. Without me, she would be begging on the street or living up in the far north with her mom in her village that is so small, it has no public transportation in or out. Granted, dying of boredom is probably better than dying of hunger, but it’s a miserable death all the same.

There are beggars and panhandlers in all cities in all countries in Europe, just like there are in the USA. It may be that more people are covered here for some essentials percentage-wise than in the USA. But to use the all-encompassing “as in Europe” to show what a paradise we are living in here, as opposed to the horrible country we are in the USA, is to gloss over a lot of unpleasant realities here. My wife was a professional, government-certified social worker here for decades. She saw it all, knew the ins and outs, how to circumvent the system for those who really were in need, and frustrated by the same system when it protected frauds and scammers. The grass is not always greener.

Yavin4

(35,438 posts)
15. There is no such thing as Paradise but there is such a thing as Hell.
Sat May 21, 2022, 11:03 AM
May 2022

Definitely not arguing that Europe is some kind of paradise. Every nation has its problems.

The real question is which system works best for most people, and it's clearly obvious that multiple European systems work better than ours do. Our systems are Hell for most people. Our systems trap people in debt/poverty/obesity at the very start of their adulthoods even if they don't have children right away.

The larger difference is that most of Europe understands the need for vibrant investments in the total public infrastructure while we expect people to pay for everything themselves out of paltry wages that is mathematically impossible to pay for everything without going into some sort of debt, and in most cases serious debts.


DBoon

(22,366 posts)
18. debt is what we have instead of a social safety net
Sat May 21, 2022, 05:54 PM
May 2022

It individualizes social responsibilities.

It shifts economic risks to those least able to manage them.

Yavin4

(35,438 posts)
19. Exactly. Mentally and physically, debt makes people feel out of control.
Sat May 21, 2022, 06:05 PM
May 2022

Mentally, makes people feel like they don't have any control over their lives. So, that makes them seek out control through voting for Republicans who gladly tell them that it's the feminists, immigrants, Blacks, etc.

Physically, they seek out control through substance abuse, food, alcohol, drugs, etc. Also, makes them abuse others, i.e. being an asshole boss.

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