As feared... bed shortage at hospital

[MissMillie]

Al's surgery postponed until further notice.





freakin' anti-vaxxers!

[Lars39]

1. Oh, no!

I was so hoping things would go smoothly. So frustrating, let alone the pain involved.
Hope he can get in ASAP.

[gademocrat7]

2. Despicable anti-vaxxers

Hope a bed becomes available soon.

[LoisB]

3. How maddening. I am so sorry.

[brer cat]

4. That is awful, MissMillie.

I hope he gets in soon.

[Blues Heron]

5. vaccines are great but they dont stop the spread

break the chain by: masking, and not partying or travelling. Otherwise, expect more of same.

[MissMillie]

7. The vaccines are highly effective at keeping people out of the hospital (n/t)

.

[Blues Heron]

8. right, but like I said they dont stop the spread like masks.

It would be great if everybody was vaxxed, but we have the population we have, not the one we wish we had, so mask up. Break the chain of transmission.

[MissMillie]

9. The surgery is postponed because of a shortage of beds in the hospital.

I get the mask thing--I do.

But there's a freakin' shortage of beds at the freakin' hospital!!!!!!!!

And my guy has been waiting for this surgery for over a year.

[Blues Heron]

10. I know - but vaxxed people are spreading it like wildfire

everybody I know that has gotten Covid has been: Vaxxed, partying and or travelling. Maskless. They are spreading it to their families all of whom are vaxxed.

It is the vaxxers that are spreading it through utter negligence.

At this point if you want to do something to keep the hospitals free from covid wear a mask, dont party, dont travel.

[MissMillie]

12. Vaxxed people are not ending up in the hospital

OVERWHELMINGLY.

I live in a state w/ a high vaccination rate... EXCEPT for in the area in which I live.


In case you can't tell, the news of this postponement has me pretty agitated.

I'd appreciate it if you could please leave me a lone for a while.

[Blues Heron]

16. Maybe take a break from the board for anwhile

You should be mad at the spreaders- vaxed or not.

[MissMillie]

19. really?

you can't just walk away? When asked nicely?

[Blues Heron]

20. It's a public board, you started the topic

[MissMillie]

22. Just because someone CAN do something

doesn't mean they should.

It was a reasonable request.

[Blues Heron]

26. Im not going anywhere, Im not even slightly bothered by the debate - its healthy.

[erronis]

38. Your posts in this thread are not helpful. Try another place.

[MissMillie]

45. wasn't looking for debate

but as long as YOU'RE not bothered... I guess everything is just fine.

[Blues Heron]

46. its a discussion board - we discuss things. If you post about Covid, expect a debate, period.

[MissMillie]

48. Well, there's a lot of people here who did know what I was looking for.

I just never thought anyone here at DU would be so blatantly disruptive. Even after being asked nicely to knock it off.

[Blues Heron]

49. Now you know. Covid is what we call a hot button issue, like nukes, etc.

You cant expect people to leave just because they disagree with something you wrote?

[MissMillie]

50. Actually what I learned was

that yes, even on DU, people can behave badly.

[JanMichael]

33. I think the point is vaccinated people are spreading it, not taking up hospital beds by not masking

The carefree vacconated and boosted types, along with the anti-vaxers, are going to keep filling up hospitals with the unvaccinated and the very fragile vaccinated.

[Blues Heron]

37. Exactly

[Ms. Toad]

59. It's actually both spreading to vulnerable individuals AND taking up hospital beds themselves.

In Washington State, 31% of the hospitalizations from February through May were fully or partially vaccinated individuals. https://doh.wa.gov/sites/default/files/2022-02/421-010-CasesInNotFullyVaccinated.pdf

So carefree vaccinated and boosted individuals are both spreading COVID to unvaccinated individuals - AND - ending up in the hospital themselves.

[orleans]

68. which page of that 19 page report can you tell me to look at that

says the 31% of hospitalizations
and says vaxed & boosted people are spreading and ending up in hospital

i'm not reading 19 pages

[Ms. Toad]

73. p 11. Middle Chart

26% completed primary series + 4.9% partially vaccinated = 30.9% of hospitalizations.

There was a similar report within the last couple of weeks in another part of the country that put the number at 40%. I don't recall enough specific words in that article to find it again.

As to spreading - seriously? It has been known since shortly after there was recognition that there were breakthrogh cases that vaccinated people can spread disease, and it is certainly no mystery that they spread it the same way unvaccinated individuals spread it - by exhaling droplets and aerosolized matter which can effectively be blocked by vaccination. Here's one article: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-risk-of-vaccinated-covid-transmission-is-not-low/

[orleans]

75. thanks. also see post #56 nt

[womanofthehills]

57. Actually at our NM hospitals most beds are filled by heart attacks, strokes

And end stage cancer - not Covid patients. Pres hospital in Albuquerque has 710 impatient beds and 19 hospitalized Covid patients but a fourth of all emergency room visits are for Covid.

[bluestarone]

15. You have a link on that?

I DO NOT believe what your saying here

[Blues Heron]

17. You really need a link? Who do you think is spreading the disease? The vaxed are.

They Think it’s over, no worries, go forth and party, etc.

[bluestarone]

21. You said "but vaxxed people are spreading it like wildfire"

I DO NOT believe YOU!

[Blues Heron]

25. you think the hundred thousand people that are geting it every single day are all unvaxxed?

Everybody I know that got it is vaxxed. And they are of course spreading it because they think it doesnt matter, no need to mask.

[Ms. Toad]

61. Anyone who is not wearing a mask indoors is spreading it.

It is unfair to attribute the spread only to vaccinated individuals, as you seem to be doing. Both you and the "no worries, go forth and party" crowd are shading the reality:

As to spreading -

It doesn't matter whether they are vaccinated or not. If you have COVID (symptomatic or not) and you are not wearing a mask indoors, you are spreading it. Both vaccinated and unvaccinated are spreading it.

As to hospitalization -

The hospitalized population is moving toward a more even split as to vaccinated & boosted v. not. There are a number of reasons for this - as more poeple are vaccinated and boosted, there will be fewer unvaccinated individuals to be hospitalized. But also - as the number of cases increase, there will be a higher number of vaccinated individuals catching COVID, which will generate a higher number of hospitalized individuals.

I'm pissed at all of the people ignoring the risks of spreading and catching COVID - and I am particularly disappointed that it seems to be be a growing opinion here. BUT - blame also belongs to the never vax, never mask population.

[Blues Heron]

63. Right but in Minnesota the vaxed and unvaxed are equally likely to get it (from the post citing mpr

So the proportion of positives is like 80 percent vaxed just based on their representation in the population. Definitely not saying it’s only vaxed, just that the vast majority of cases are vaxed.

Here is the quote from mpr

s. Most recently, Minnesotans who are vaccinated are just as likely as those who are unvaccinated to get COVID-19.

[Ms. Toad]

64. But whether you are spreading it has to do with whether you are masked -

not whether you are vaccinated. So getting pissed at those who are vaccinated and ignoring masking is the wrong focus - the focus should be on those not wearing masks.

And as to this thread, those who are vaccinated are far less likely to be hospitalized. The portion of those hospitalized who are vaccinated and boosted is growing - so the blame for taking up hospital beds also gets shared between vaccinated not wearing masks and unvaccinated. (I am sure there are some who are vaccinated and wearing masks who still end up in the hospital - but they are blameless, as far as I'm concerned.)

[Blues Heron]

65. I am pissed at all the spreaders definitely. Not just the vaxed.

[MissMillie]

24. chart about 1/3 of the way down the page

https://www.news-medical.net/news/20220110/A-study-on-COVID-vaccinated-vs-unvaccinated-that-required-hospitalization.aspx

Fully vaxxed, fully boosted... lest amount of hospitalizations

[bluestarone]

27. EXACTLY!

Yet he/she blames the vaccinated! I say BULLSHIT!

[womanofthehills]

69. Links - very few Covid beds in 2 major hospitals in Albuquerque - lots in emergency room visits

In fact, if you have Covid, they will discourage you from going to hospital but will send emergency services to check how sick you are and measure your oxygen levels



https://data.newportri.com/covid-19-hospital-capacity/facility/presbyterian-hospital/320021/


https://data.newportri.com/covid-19-hospital-capacity/facility/unm-hospital/320001/

[Johnny2X2X]

43. Vaxxed people are 4 times less likely to get Covid

So the vaccinated are getting it and those spreading it less than the unvaccinated.

[Blues Heron]

44. but there are a lot more of the vaxxed and they have thrown care to the wind these days

somehow we are up over 100,000 cases every day - you think thats all unvaxxed people?

[progree]

51. The risk ratios of hospitalizations and deaths, unvaxxed compared to vaxxed in Minnesota

COVID-19 in MN: Caseload rise may be leveling off; ICU needs low, stable, by Craig Helmstetter, 5/6/22
https://www.mprnews.org/story/2022/05/06/covid19-in-mn-rising-caseloads-may-be-leveling-hospital-needs-stable

The final graph in this week’s update demonstrates both the waning effectiveness of the original vaccination and virulence of the recent omicron strains. Most recently, Minnesotans who are vaccinated are just as likely as those who are unvaccinated to get COVID-19.

On the other hand, unvaccinated Minnesotans remain at least twice as likely to either get hospitalized or die from COVID-19 than is the case among those who are vaccinated. ((but these ratios are shrinking fast -Progree))

Unvaxxed relative to the vaxxed (my read of the graphs, approximate):
Cases: 1X,     Hospitalization: 2X     Deaths: 2.5X



Scary. But enough incentive for me to get my 2nd booster (May 19, yeah!). I like being half as likely being in a hospital bed. I think a lot of the graph is explained by fading boosters, since most got their's in, what, Nov-Dec? So I'm hoping to improve my odds from 1/2 as likely to something considerably better.

Thought you might be interested.

Edited to add - I wear a mask and social distance to the point where I'm a virtual hermit. I don't like being "1X" when it comes to the risk of catching it and spreading it.

[Blues Heron]

52. There it is right there

Most recently, Minnesotans who are vaccinated are just as likely as those who are unvaccinated to get COVID-19.


people have dropped almost all precautions as if the risk of dying- now mitigated by vaccines - is all there is to it. Its more than that. The more it spreads, the more unvaxxed people end up clogging the hospitals. That means everybody needs to stop the spread by all means available, but that is not happening, with now dire consequences.

[progree]

53. Yup. I put a little "Edited to Add" that you might not have seen becuz I put it in

at about the same time as your posting:

Edited to add - I wear a mask and social distance to the point where I'm a virtual hermit. I don't like being "1X" when it comes to the risk of catching it and spreading it.

[Blues Heron]

54. Thanks, just saw that

same here, vaxxed, masked, and nearly a hermit.

[rsdsharp]

11. I've heard nimrods say smugly, "You can smell a fart through a mask, so they don't work."

The idea being the common right wing position that if something doesn’t 100% eradicate a problem, it has no efficacy at all, and should be abandoned.

Well, Thursday I went to the doctor, where masks are now optional, BTW. I was wearing a KN95 given to me by a nurse at my GP’s office. I sat down and pulled the mask slightly away from my face for a second to get a bit more air. I suddenly smelled perfume, and there was no one within 15 feet of me. With the mask back in place there was no smell. Another fallacy destroyed.

[MissMillie]

13. masks are helpful

But last week my sister tested positive and she wears a mask whenever she leaves the house.

But, she didn't end up in the hospital. That's the vaccine.

[StevieM]

30. I wore my KN95 mask everywhere.

I never went out unmasked. And I just tested positive for COVID this morning.

If most other people are not wearing a mask it is very hard to avoid contracting the virus. I am just glad that I am fully vaccinated and boosted. My symptoms are mild so far.

[Blues Heron]

32. yep it takes everybody - we are all in this together

we all need to mask to stop the spread, to keep the numbers low, to keep the hospital beds empty. Masks are far more effective if all parties are masked. The vaccines are great but you still get sick and can spread it. without the masks, this thing is going to just get worse. Losing the mask mandates was so stupid it beggars the imagination.

Somehow the vaccines made people think we dont need any other precautions like distancing, refraining from partying, etc.

[MissMillie]

36. I hope you recover fully and quickly (n/t)

.

[electric_blue68]

40. Good Luck. Hope it'll stay mild, and then be Totally Be Gone!

[orleans]

31. so it's OUR fault that those antivax assholes are in the hospital?

it has nothing to do with those assholes not wearing masks to protect themselves?

sounds like you're blaming us. why?

[Blues Heron]

34. Yes - the numbers tell the tale - we are up over one hundred thousand cases a day

do you think they are all unvaxxed? Its in our best interest as the OP is finding out to limit the spread amongst ourselves to save ourselves from the unvaxxed clogging the hospitals. But we are not doing that , we are doing the opposite - everybody is out partying, and not worrying about it becasue they are protected with the vaccine.

[orleans]

66. not cool broad brushing us into this negative perception you've got going on

but we are not doing that, we are doing the opposite

speak for yourself! you certainly do not speak for me!

everybody is out partying

bullshit!

and not worrying about it because they are protected with the vaccine

absolute bullshit

this might be true with the people you know personally or the people you run with or party with but it is NOT true with me, my family, and the people i know

[Blues Heron]

67. That's great-keep up the good work

If it doesn’t apply to you, it doesn’t apply to you, but there are a boatload of people out there spreading this like there is no tomorrow - to the tune of 100,000 cases everyday and going up. When I say we I mean the country as a whole, hence the dismal national numbers. When I say everybody is out partying that’s what’s known as a figure of speech. Obviously not every single person in the country is partying right Now that’s ludicrous.

[orleans]

70. there are a boatload of people who sound like they victim blame and

come off with zero empathy for others

and when i say boatload it's what's known as a figure of speech

after all, an entire unsympathetic boatload of people could sink, they could all drown, and none of them would even care

and when i say "an entire unsympathetic boatload of people" i am speaking metaphorically because if i was speaking literally and said none would care if they drown that would be ludicrous b/c, undoubtedly, at least one of them would give a shit--or at least we can assume.

or can we?

we all know what happens when we assume. right?

[Blues Heron]

71. Cool story bro

[orleans]

72. "bro" -- another figure of speech? since i am neither *your* "bro" or *a* "bro"

[Ms. Toad]

60. It's not just antivax assholes.

30-40% of the current hospitalizations for COVID are people who are vaccinated. I linked to one report earlier reporting 30% for Feb - May 3. There was a second one within the last few weeks in which 40% of the hospitalized population was vaccinated.

[USALiberal]

41. The poster said "spread"!!!!

[Ms. Toad]

58. Not when the volume of people catching COVID is so high.

.38% of a very large number is still a very large number. (based on the percentage of fully vaccinated individuals in NY State hospitalized with COVID).

To keep the hospitalizations down, you have to both get people vaccinated AND minimize the spread. Omicron was crazy infectious - the new variant of omicron is about 30-40% MORE infectious than omicron.

[dsp3000]

14. Yep- We all caught covid- no hospital though.

We've been cautious for the last 2 years, along with my cautious neighbors and close friends who have kids. we all caught covid. vaxxed and boosted. MIL double boosted recently and caugh it. Relatively minor compared to what it could have been so far.

I'm on my 3rd day of Paxlovid right now and barely have any symptoms except for fatigue. Wife did not get Paxlovid but is getting better but still has a lingering cough

[misanthrope]

56. Yes and no

They don't stop the spread altogether. But there's a caveat.

If you contract COVID-19, the virus starts replicating inside you. The more it thrives, the more it replicates. Therefore, the more virus you shed.

If the vaccine boosts your ability to conquer the virus, then the virus isn't as successful replicating. The less virus being made, the less you have to shed.

So while you might still be shedding some virus if you're experiencing the relatively mild symptoms most vaccinated sufferers describe, then you are still putting off less of it and over a shorter period of time than the unvaccinated with full-blown COVID. That isn't the same as stopping it altogether, but it is certainly reducing spread to a degree.

[keithbvadu2]

6. Now they believe

[moonscape]

18. I am so very sorry. That bites, hard :(

[liberalla]

23. Don't you hate being right? Dang!

Here's hoping the surgery can be rescheduled soon!

[bluestarone]

28. I second THIS!

[oregonjen]

29. I'm so sorry

Hope your husband gets in sooner rather than later.

[MustLoveBeagles]

35. I'm sorry

How frustrating for you both.

[erronis]

39. I'll also apologize for some earlier posters who want to derail this thread.

What you said originally is just right. My best hopes for you and your husband.

Some others appear to have too much time on a Sunday afternoon to be helpful.

[MissMillie]

42. that's very kind of you

What we need to find out now is what the typical wait-time is after postponement.

We were warned this might happen. While we were having his consultation w/ the surgeon a couple of weeks ago, he got notified that he had to cancel surgeries for the next day.

Thing is, we don't know if we'll be waiting a few days, a few weeks, or a few months.

Al was instructed to stop taking some of his medications (because they pose a threat to bleeding) and now we don't know if he should be starting back on those meds or not.

[Danmel]

47. I'm really sorry that you are going through this

And I hope that you don't have to wait long and that AL makes a speedy and complete recovery.
I can't imagine how frustrated you must be.

[Ms. Toad]

62. COVID is on the upswing -

So likely a few weeks, assuming we burn through this version of omicron as quickly as the last.

From where we are now, compared to the omicron surge, we're just about 2 months to get back down below the current level of cases. No guarantee as to that time frame - but it's the bust guidance avaialble. Send an inquiry through the charting tool to his doctor and ask about the medications.

(And - from my recent experience in the hospital, it's no time to be in the hospital right now.)

[Novara]

55. I'm sorry. I am looking at surgery in the near future and don't know what to expect.

First of all, it's a worker's comp injury on the job and I am speculating that I will have to fight with them. But I don't know how the hospital bed situation is here. I got my second COVID booster last Friday just in case.

[Igirl]

74. In Texas there is no problem yet

Last edited Mon May 23, 2022, 12:46 AM - Edit history (1)

Plenty of beds when I check the report, at least where I live. I have heard they are having a hard time hiring nurses.