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[Name removed]

[wryter2000]

1. What you mention will not pass the Senate

I don't care what you call the things. They need to be gone.

[gldstwmn]

18. Amen. Ban them.

[Act_of_Reparation]

83. If licensing won't pass the Senate, then it is safe to assume an outright ban won't, either.

So, as long as we sitting here doing nothing... anyone wanna play some Super Mario Bros?

[boston bean]

2. Blabbity blah blah blah

Who gives a shit what we call them. The difference is you just pull the trigger as fast as you can or modify it so it is automatic or bump stock or whatever the fuck. ‘’A whole classroom wiped,out and you are worrying about semantics. Give me a fucking break.

[TxGuitar]

4. exactly my reaction

blah blah blah worrying about semantics.

[tishaLA]

17. Even Scarborough talked about this trick this morning

they play semantic games regarding assault weapons that essentially define them out of existence, so whenever you say "assault weapon," they can say "but that's not an assault weapon" and tell you that you have no idea what you're talking about.

[DenaliDemocrat]

53. All these nutters do shit like this

The pitbull apologists go “it’s a bully mutt, not a REAL pitbull ”…

The pedos are like “it’s a cartoon child so it’s not real”.


Sick of all this shit.

[gldstwmn]

20. Agree. It's the speed at which the bullet leaves the gun but who gives a

f*ck really. They keep killing people. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result.

[SoonerPride]

25. +19

[wryter2000]

30. Now, calm down, little lady

You have been gunsplained. in case anyone missed it.

[gldstwmn]

52. We need a ban. Ban, ban, ban.

Incremental changes haven't done shit.

[llmart]

57. Did those children die an "incremental" death?

Take your gun fetish talking points and go away. I've heard that same sick argument of what to call these weapons of mass destruction one too many times for my liking.

BAN THEM ALL!

[MineralMan]

3. Nomenclature doesn't matter. The term "assault rifle" means

different things to different people. We had an "assault weapons ban" in this country. In that, the term was defined officially in the text of that law. 2nd amendment folks use a different definition, and ridicule people for using the one used in the law.

You seem to fit the second category. No, thanks.

[TheRealNorth]

14. +1

Just because I call my M1A a "battle rifle" doesn't mean that it doesn't fall under the umbrella of assault guns.

[wryter2000]

32. I call my scrambled eggs "caviar"

But it doesn't fool anyone.

[Novara]

5. Is the game you're hunting wearing kevlar vests? No? Then you don't need an assault weapon

NO ONE DOES.

Those are weapons that need to be limited to battlefields, not owned by the teenager next door, for fuck's sake.

[PTWB]

11. What do vests have to do with it?

Typical bolt action hunting rifles are far more powerful against body armor than the .223 / 5.56 fired by common “assault rifles.”

[Novara]

13. way to miss the point

[TheRealNorth]

22. My suspicion is that even if we were talking about the XM5/MCX Spear...

Which the US Army is purchasing because it works better against body armor, his opinion wouldn't change.

[wryter2000]

34. Unfortunately

I'm afraid this is why we need the Gungeon, so they can spread their manure there instead of in GD.

[sarisataka]

6. .

Pepperoni? I prefer sausage and mushrooms

[SYFROYH]

54. got any red pepper flakes?

[TheRealNorth]

7. Sorry you don't like the terminology...

But I am not going to use your made-up distinction so that you can feel better. The AR-15 is mostly the same as the M-16, except it's not automatic.

[TheRealNorth]

28. I would say that if it has a high capacity magazine....

Then it is essentially a BAR and therefore is an assault weapon.

[YorkRd]

8. Did Hitler coin the term "assault rifle" for propaganda reasons?

"The assault rifle is a class of weapon that emerged in the middle of the last century to meet the needs of combat soldiers on the modern battlefield, where the level of violence had reached such heights that an entirely new way of fighting had emerged, one for which the existing weapons were a poor match. The name “assault rifle” is believed to have been coined by Adolf Hitler. Toward the end of World War II, the story goes, Hitler hailed his army’s new wonder weapon by insisting that it be called not by the technical name given it by its developers, the Machinenpistole (the German name for a submachine gun), but rather something that made for better propaganda copy. A Sturmgewehr, he called the new gun: a “storm” or “assault” weapon."

https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2016/06/a-brief-history-of-the-assault-rifle/489428/

[hatrack]

9. Donald Sutherland/President Snow voice: "But, I fear your visit will be brief."

[OneBlueDotS-Carolina]

10. That line is getting very old.

It's an assault rifle. That is according to someone who would know. Eugene Stoner who designed the rifle. It's a military weapon, not meant for civilians. It's the rounds they fire, the velocity, not that you can toggle the assault rifle from one to three or full auto. It's the damage the rounds do.

[C_U_L8R]

12. Call them what they are

Child killing weapons.

[maxsolomon]

15. I scrupulously use the term "MSSA"

Military-Style Semi-Automatic. More accurate.

It isn't in common usage, but it helps to facilitate rational discussion with Gunners.

[gldstwmn]

16. Aaaand here they are right on time.

[Triloon]

21. I would support a ban on all sales of semi auto rifles.

If you are using one to shoot your turkeys, deer, and ducks then you're just an asshole, and you know it. The only reason for owning one is to fantasize about killing people.
Background checks and all that are incremental changes that would only postpone the ultimate ban on all semi auto rifles, which is the ONLY solution to these mass murders. It's time to quit screwing around with half measures.

[Triloon]

58. Yeah yeah...

Go get your jollies shooting ducks with your AR ...
The 2A is not threatened by the banning of weapons of mass murder. The people who don't believe this are just making excuses for more killers. Not in the name of the Constitution but as a way to satisfy their own grisly fantasies about killing 'bad guys'. Fantasies which never, ever, come true.
You are correct that the current Senate would never pass such a ban. There are too many senators that don't give a damn and I would bet that each of them harbor their own grisly fantasies and own their own little emotional security ARs.
I would be happy to support any incremental changes that would make a real difference, but no one has mentioned any such thing.
I guess America's heap of children's blasted bodies will have to get much higher before we naive and clueless Pollyannas are treated seriously. But I really have no hope for that. What the hell, the school janitors can mop up all that blood and pick the bone fragments out of the walls. A little paint and no one will know the difference. I have done this. I know. And you know it too, even if you haven't had to scrape the dried blood off the baseboards and sponge down the walls so they can be repainted. I will not concur that half-measures are okay.

[gay texan]

29. Bullshit.

Nobody needs a AR-15, an AK-47, an SKS, an UZI, or any of that other wanna be tough guy fuckboi toys.

Nobody needs a fucking high capacity magazine either.

Those weapons were designed to fucking kill people in mass quantities, reliably.

Full motherfucking stop.

I live out in the sticks with wild hogs, bad people and other bullshit. I do just fine with a clapped out 5 shot bolt action and a shot gun.

[Paladin]

39. Well said. (nt)

[Hugh_Lebowski]

47. Curious ... what exactly would we optimally do about the 10's of Millions of these weapons

and magazines, and no doubt billions of rounds of ammo for them ... already in the hands of the populace, who bought them legally with their hard-earned money?

Or are you strictly addressing 'new sales' in ... whatever actual plan you're proposing?

[gay texan]

64. Do it like we did in the 1930's

Ban them, buy em back, and a grace period for turning them in.

If you dont, federal jail time.

I'm through fucking around with semantics. Hit this bullshit head on.

[uponit7771]

69. THIS !!!! ☝🏾☝🏾☝🏾

[Johnny2X2X]

31. We are capable of regulating types of guns

We can regulate types of wire, types of brakes, types of medicines, and types of chainsaws. We can regulate guns by creating classes of them and then having the manufacture apply for their gun to be given a certain class. Just like we do for hundreds of thousands of other products made and sold in the US.

It's not nearly as complicated as regulating many other things in our country.

Create Class 1 with these characteristics, these are banned entirely.
Create Class 2 with these other characteristics, these are not banned, but heavily regulated.
Create Class 3 with other characteristics, these are less regulated as they aren't deemed as capable of mass casualty events. etc etc.

[Bettie]

37. Gunsplaining through terminology

are you going to tell us next that the word "clip" should not be used, it is a "magazine"...probably intoned in a very serious voice.

The bottom line is that one particular type of rifle has been used in the majority of mass shootings.

My grandpa used to say that if you needed more than two shots when hunting (deer in his case), you shouldn't be doing it.

This guy hunted children, in a school.

I have no sympathy or patience for gun enthusiasts and their tender fee fees today.

19 children are dead. Their parents have to give DNA swabs because their bodies aren't recognizable.

Two teachers died as they tried to protect these children.

But, of course, your first concern is terminology.

[bahboo]

40. thank you...

[honest.abe]

46. I am so sick of this argument.

If a gun is being used like an assault weapon then IT IS some type of an assault weapon even if it doesnt fit the exact definition. Whatever you want to call it, it needs to be banned or highly regulated.

[Hugh_Lebowski]

55. That's not really a practical means of codifying law

which is what needs to be done.

It's like you're asserting that if this shooter had used the brand-new BadBoi 669X to kill these children ... then that would make this model of gun an 'assault rifle', and hence ... retroactively, illegal, for everyone who bought a BadBoi 669X?

Conversely, if one person uses an AR-15 to shoot wild pigs on his farm, is it then NOT 'used like an assault weapon', and hence not subject to your proposed regulation?

Your logic is reversed and impractical for lawmaking.

You have to define what exact properties constitute something that is being banned, it really cannot just be defined by individual actions taken with that something.

I believe that's the OP's point, and s/he is not wrong about the subject, IMHO.

[honest.abe]

60. I wasn't suggesting basing the law on a use case..

My point is if an item is being used as an assault weapon then we need to find a way to regulate it like an assault weapon. Not just dismiss it since it doesn’t fit the exact definition which is what the op seems to saying.

[mainer]

59. Converting a semi to an automatic? Easy

So you want to go all pearl-clutchy about calling them "assault weapons." They easily turn into assault weapons with a few modifications.

All you have to do is pull off the factory-issued stock, pry open the base of the pistol grip and remove it with the Allen wrench.

Wriggle the grip off the gun while carefully leaving the safety undisturbed, then slide the bump fire stock on.


Couple that with a high-capacity magazine, which can carry as many as 100 rounds, and you're set to unleash an act of terror.

https://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/converting-semiautomatic-rifles-full-auto-ease-article-1.3542188

[Aristus]

61. Ah, fuck; here we go again.

The half-million reasons why it's not an "assault rifle" and we need to stop calling it that.

This, and this, and this, and this, and this, and......

This is why I can't fucking stand gun-crazies. They all want a firearm that's capable of inflicting horrible, devastating wounds on human beings, when not killing them outright in outrageously large numbers. They want it black, they want it angular, they want it lethal-looking.

But they don't want it to have a scary name, because then people might want the sale of them tightly regulated.

Fuck all gun-crazies and their objections to the term "assault rifle". Fuck them all to hell.

[Aristus]

76. I've only been a Democrat for thirty years, and even I know

not to carry water for the opposition.

The old automatic/semi-automatic semantic argument is decades out of date. The M16-A2, introduced in the late 80’s, (and on which I qualified as Expert in the Army) changed the rifle’s full-auto capability to ‘Burst’, meaning only three rounds fired per trigger-pull, instead of the magazine-emptying automatic.

This means even the Army didn’t think full-auto was necessary on the battlefield. Arguing ‘well, at least it’s not fully automatic like in the Army’ is pointless and inaccurate.

The only argument that makes any sense is ‘was it designed to kill large numbers of human beings very rapidly?’ If so, then it should be banned from civilian sale.

[IBEWVET]

63. restrict magazines to 10 rounds

High capacity ones have no place in civilian life. With smaller ones the shooter might drop one while changing or at least give a break in the shooting where victims might be able to escape.

[Whiskeytide]

71. You've been excoriated in this thread, and that's ...

… a shame because you’ve made a valid point about the confusion over what is an “Assault Rifle” for purposes of legislative action. But words do matter. And if we are seeking to address this problem through legislation, we need to understand and be precise about what we’re trying to do. People here are raw after yesterday. And last week. And the week before that. And so on.

But here’s my take:

We banned automatic assault rifles years ago. That ban expired, and it is now legal to own them if you have a permit. But the permit really is a serious undertaking, and there really isn’t a lot (relatively speaking) of them around. But the truth is that very few of the mass shootings we seem to experience far too often in our society today actually involve automatic assault rifles.

Instead, the weapon of choice for a mass shooter today is overwhelmingly the AR 15. And there are millions of them out there.

The AR 15 is not an automatic assault rifle - true, and would not have been banned by the previous automatic assault rifle ban. It is basically a hunting rifle that has been tricked out to LOOK like a military grade automatic assault rifle. Apparently it’s a “cool” thing for these people.

But people who point that out as a defense of the gun - “it’s just a hunting rifle” - are ignoring the high capacity mags that allow you to get off a lot of shots before having to reload. They also ignore the popularity of the bump stocks which allow an AR 15 to function more like an automatic rifle. Modified in this way means it is really only for killing people. Or for practicing killing people. A lot of them. Efficiently and rapidly.

The AR 15 was essentially the gun industry’s work around for the automatic assault rifle ban. It’s the closest thing you can get to the military weapons carried in war theaters without the bother of the automatic assault rifle permit.

And that’s precisely the point. Someone who buys an AR 15 is NOT hunting deer with it. They are playing army/militia/insurrectionist/Gubmint ain’t taking my guns! LARP, and they have some serious issues. The simple desire to own such a weapon seems, to me, to be prima facie evidence of a mental imbalance, and should immediately disqualify them for such a purchase.

Are there occasional exceptions to this? I’m sure there are. Is every purchaser of an AR 15 planning a school, workplace, church or supermarket massacre? Probably not. But the fact of the matter is that I believe anyone who owns an AR 15 should be assumed to be at least a little fucked up in the head until they clearly prove otherwise.

[Kaleva]

79. Automatic weapons are regulated by the National Firearms Act of 1934

Your commetn:

"We banned automatic assault rifles years ago."

Assault weapons were never banned. Those already made before the ban went into effect remained legal to own, sell or buy.

Your comment:

"But people who point that out as a defense of the gun - “it’s just a hunting rifle” - are ignoring the high capacity mags that allow you to get off a lot of shots before having to reload."

AR15 style rifles can fire a wide range of calibers and can be fitted with 5 round, 10 round, 20 round or 30 round magazines.

here is a list of the rounds an AR15 style rifle can fire:

"Rimfire cartridges
.17 HMR[1]
.17 Mach 2
.17 Winchester Super Magnum[1]
.22 Long Rifle[2]
.22 Winchester Magnum Rimfire[1]

Centerfire cartridges imperial measurement
.17 Mach IV
.17 Remington Fireball
.17 Remington[1]
.17-223[3]
.20 Practical[4]
.20 GPC (wildcat)
.22 GPC (wildcat)
22 Grendel (wildcat) aka 224 Grendel
.22 Nosler
.22 PPC
.204 Ruger[1]
.222 Remington
.223 Remington – Original AR-15 cartridge: .223 cartridges may function in a 5.56×45mm rifle, however 5.56×45mm cartridges may produce excessive pressure in a .223 Rem rifle. On the other hand, a .223 Wylde chamber is used on .223 Rem rifle barrels to allow them to safely fire either .223 Remington or 5.56×45mm NATO ammunition.[5]
.223 Winchester Super Short Magnum[5]
.224 Kritzeck (wildcat of a .223 Remington with shortened neck)[6]
.224 Valkyrie
.24 GPC
.243 LBC[3]
.243 Winchester Super Short Magnum[5]
.25 Winchester Super Short Magnum[5]
.25-45 Sharps
.257 Ocelot (wildcat)
.25 GPC (wildcat)
.26 GPC (wildcat)
.27 GPC (wildcat)
.277 Wolverine (semi-wildcat)
.277 MSR (Dasher Wildcat)
.28 GPC (wildcat)
.30 American[7]
.30 Carbine[1]
.30 GPC (wildcat)
.30 Remington AR[8]
.30 Sabertooth (wildcat)
.300 OSSM[5]
.300 AAC Blackout (7.62×35mm)[8]
.300 Whisper[8]
.300 HAM'R – Wilson Combat[9]
.338 SOCOM (wildcat)[10]
.338 Spectre (wildcat)
.350 Legend[11]
.357 Automag (wildcat)[12]
.358 MGP (wildcat)
.358 SOCOM (wildcat)[13]
.358 Yeti (wildcat)[14]
.375 Stalker (wildcat)
.375 SOCOM
.400 AR (wildcat)[15]
.40 S&W[16]
.44 Automag (wildcat)[17]
.44 Remington Magnum (wildcat)[18]
.44 SOCOM (wildcat)[19]
.440 Corbon Magnum (wildcat)[20]
.45 ACP[21]
.450 Bushmaster[1]
.458 SOCOM[22]
.475 SOCOM (wildcat)[23]
.499 LWRC
.50 Action Express
.50 Beowulf[24]
.50 SOCOM (wildcat)[25]

Centerfire cartridges metric measurement
5.45×39mm[1] – intermediate
5.56×45mm NATO – Original M16A1 cartridge: Can also safely fire .223 Remington, intermediate[1]
FN 5.7×28mm – PDW
6mm Mongoose (wildcat)
6mm ARC – rifle
6mm Dasher
6mm AR (wildcat)
6×45mm – intermediate
6.5mm Grendel[1] – intermediate
6.5 Timberwolf (wildcat)
6.8×39mm (.277 Wolverine)[26][27] – intermediate
6.8mm Remington SPC[8] – intermediate
7mm Valkyrie (wildcat)
7.62×33mm (.30 Carbine) – carbine
7.62×37mm Musang (wildcat) – intermediate
7.62×39mm[8] – intermediate
7.62×40mm Wilson Tactical[8] – rifle
7.92×33mm Kurz – intermediate
9×19mm Parabellum[2] – pistol
9×39mm[28] – subsonic rifle
10mm Auto (10×25mm)[21] – pistol
10mm SOCOM (wildcat)[29]
10x43mm (.400AR wildcat)[30]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_AR_platform_cartridges

One can also buy an AR15 style platform that firs shotgun shells.

[mainer]

73. If we can't ban guns, can we ban ammo?

2nd amendment says we have the right to bear arms, but doesn't specifically say bullets.
Can't we just limit sales of ammunition?

[budkin]

74. It's just semantics. They ARE assault rifles

They are designed to kill a lot of people very quickly and easily.

[Kaleva]

81. Are you talking about the gun or the high capacity magazine?

An AR platform with a 5 round mag is no more dangerous the a common hunting semi-auto with a 5 round mag

[JustAnotherGen]

75. I disagree with densely populated cities

After Buffalo (I went to university in that area - Rochester native) and knowing that asshole was initially going to shoot up my niece's area in Rochester -

No - I disagree.

Black folks, Latino Folks - we can't be sitting targets ever again.

[ripcord]

78. There isn't going to be anymore gun control

The right feels after 50 years of constant pressure to limit their rights it will never end so they aren't supporting any more, I have heard it over and over around here.

[Torchlight]

82. My brother used to quibble over my labeling the kitchen shears a 'knife'

To this day, I still give less than a two-ounce pile of poop about the difference between a chef's knife and a boning knife; as long as they butter my bread and cut the roast, the only real difference between them to me lies in marketing and demographic targeting.