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Thu May 26, 2022, 09:14 AM

DEAR GAWD. *THREAD* - "Lots of nervous Barney Fife types with their hands on their pistols,"

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🧵I can't fucking sleep tonight. Kept thinking about one of my last calls as an EMT after reading about cops not willingly putting themselves in harm's way. August 2001. I pulled my bus up just outside the PD cordon at the site of a DV call. 1/

Lots of nervous Barney Fife types with their hands on their pistols, taking cover behind their cars, filling the radio with useless traffic. Fire dispatch briefed me enroute. Normally, no biggie, treat the DV victim(s) & transport. 2/

This MFer was a 10-43: barricaded, probably armed, with hostages. I introduced myself to the on-scene commander, who looked the part: lean, muscular, confident voice & demeanor, lots of service hash marks on his sleeve. 3/

I say looked the part, because he sure as shit didn't act that way as the night went on. You see, even with 5 or 6 cops with him, not to mention probable cause to enter the domicile, he wouldn't. He wanted to wait for the county to send ESU, but those heavily armed meatheads 4/

would need an hour or more to spin up. Meanwhile, we waited & sweated. No negotiator, no ESU door kickers, couldn't even get a helo to spotlight the house. I asked SGT M why he couldn't move in with the cops he had. His answer blew me away & still makes me angry to this day. 5/

M didn't want to "unnecessarily risk" his officers. I was gobsmacked. Like, MFer, that badge means we all accept that risk. Fuck it, I'll go. M told me to stand down. I told him to go fuck himself. We heard 2 shotgun blasts inside the house. One. Pause. Pause. Two. 6/

I knew what that meant, given the math, but it never registered with M or his officers. I felt sick. I told him he needed to go in now, so I could treat the hostages. He told me to stand down, ESU was on the move. One more shotgun blast. 7/

M's mouth kept opening & closing like a bass you just pulled out of the water. I told him I was going in because the risk was gone. M was right, I wasn't an LEO, I had no business going in, but deep down, I knew my bag wouldn't help any of the 3 people inside. 8/

The fucking door wasn't even locked. And I was right, there was nothing I could do. Wife took a 10-gauge shell to the neck in the bedroom. Bled out through her carotid. 3- or 4-year old child must've been hiding in the bathroom when Dad got to them. 9/

DV perp turned the shotgun on himself, but didn't manage to die right away. It was messy. He sounded like he was choking on his own blood. I wanted that kid to live more than any other patient I had in my time as an EMT. But I also knew that answer was no. 10/

I still see that kid in my dreams, now & again. I see them every time I read about a school massacre. I see the murdered child, whose last thought was probably a fear that no one - let alone a fucking goddamn child - should ever have. 11/

The perp? Fuck him. Let him choke agonizingly on his own blood. Yeah, I disregarded my training, but fuck that guy who just killed his family. M finally entered the house & asked why I wasn't treating the perp. AYFKM?! 12/

Long story short, my report (I thought) was a verbal flamethrower that would tank M's career & any possible future as an LEO. Nothing. Fucking. Happened. Because I was just an EMT, not LE. What could I possibly know? M is now the deputy chief of his department. 13/

I told @drjchernov earlier tonight that some people who can't accept that their badge = risking their own life aren't meant for PD/Fire/EMS. That's the job. I did accept that, but I also realized I had other issues to deal with, unrelated to my EMT days. 14/

There was also a quick side trip to the World Trade Center a month later, & that only confirmed that my decision was/remains the correct one for me at that time. Then I read that LEOs waited for backup in Uvalde while kids died, & this specific call came roaring back. 15/

Fuck, I wouldn't wish that kind of memory on my worst enemy. I saw the child again. Younger than yesterday's victims, but still a child. Then I picked up my kids from school, & kept my utter & abject sense of relief to myself, hidden in anodyne questions about their day. 16/

How fucking dare you? I'll say it again, I don't give one tenth of half a fuck - how dare you, you cowardly pieces of shit who aren't worthy of the badges on your chests? Children died because of your inaction. Children died while you waited for fucking backup. 17/

Children died because you were either unable or unwilling to put your body between the perp & (I can't stress this enough) defenseless fucking children whose only sin yesterday was to go to school wanting to learn & hang out with friends.
18/

Now, typing this, all I can see is that child huddled between the tub & the toilet, hoping his dad wouldn't do the unthinkable. Then seeing the results of what had been unthinkable. We all see the unthinkable on a weekly basis now. At least, news of it. 19/

It's time for that to change. This is macabre, but not new: if the victims' families agree, publish the crime scene photos. Let America see what their passion for unfettered gun ownership hath wrought. Then maybe we'd get common sense gun laws like a background check. 20/

Enough platitudes, I can't swallow another one without wanting to puke. Fuck your thoughts & prayers. Politicians, you have the statutory power to do something about this scourge. Yet. You. Do. Fuck. All. Do it for children who just want to play during recess. 21/

Do it for folks shopping socializing at a supermarket because racist zoning rules made that a gathering place. Do it for congregants at a synagogue, patients at a Planned Parenthood clinic. Do it for Asian salon workers in Atlanta & Dallas. 22/

Do it for your country, as alien as that concept might sound to you. Like @TheOnion says after all such massacres - not mass shootings, these are massacres - "No way to prevent this, says only nation where this regularly happens"
23/



We need answers re: the Uvalde LE response!!

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Arrow 36 replies Author Time Post
Reply DEAR GAWD. *THREAD* - "Lots of nervous Barney Fife types with their hands on their pistols," (Original post)
Roland99 May 26 OP
niyad May 26 #1
sop May 26 #2
Samrob May 26 #7
uponit7771 May 26 #8
JanMichael May 26 #3
uponit7771 May 26 #4
BlueIdaho May 26 #5
Roland99 May 26 #9
Baitball Blogger May 26 #12
Locrian May 26 #29
Buns_of_Fire May 26 #6
Traildogbob May 26 #17
Baitball Blogger May 26 #10
Bear Creek May 26 #14
Baitball Blogger May 26 #15
Bear Creek May 26 #21
inthewind21 May 26 #24
Bear Creek May 26 #26
cab67 May 26 #28
Baitball Blogger May 26 #30
cab67 May 26 #31
Baitball Blogger May 26 #33
Marthe48 May 26 #11
IronLionZion May 26 #13
KS Toronado May 26 #16
moonscape May 26 #22
Hortensis May 26 #18
Roland99 May 26 #19
Hortensis May 26 #20
llashram May 26 #23
world wide wally May 26 #25
barbtries May 26 #27
Historic NY May 26 #32
LetMyPeopleVote May 26 #34
msongs May 26 #35
LetMyPeopleVote May 28 #36

Response to Roland99 (Original post)

Thu May 26, 2022, 09:24 AM

1. . . .

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Response to Roland99 (Original post)

Thu May 26, 2022, 09:33 AM

2. Police killings of unarmed black men are motivated by fear.

Time and time again we hear cops justify such shootings: "I was in fear for my life!" Why should we be surprised when cops cower in fear when forced to face heavily armed suspects?

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Response to sop (Reply #2)

Thu May 26, 2022, 09:48 AM

7. Nope. You can't be more fearful of "no weapon" than an AR-15 or other assault weapon.

Police killing of unarmed black men is motivated by racism. Remember, they kill unarmed black women almost as frequently.

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Response to sop (Reply #2)

Thu May 26, 2022, 09:49 AM

8. RIGHT !? I am blown the f**k away !! The common theme in every unarmed shooting by LEO I see

... is the LEO putting themselves in more danger against policy then shooting the unarmed !!

WTAF ?!

They waited 40 mins !?!? I'm heart broken !!!

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Response to Roland99 (Original post)

Thu May 26, 2022, 09:34 AM

3. Hey at least a couple got their own kids out, right?

Honestly I hope that's not true because if it is they need to be fired put in jail for at least 10 years thinking about how s***** they are at their job.

I thought about joining a fire department back when I was about 19 and getting fed up with being at University.

And then I thought better of it and said to myself, do I really want to run into a burning building and possibly die for somebody I don't know? And while for a split second I said, yes of course you would, deep down I knew that I might hesitate. That hesitation gets people killed. So I did not join the fire department.

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Response to Roland99 (Original post)

Thu May 26, 2022, 09:43 AM

4. WTF ?! If the person is of color LEOs ***PUT*** themselves in more danger to be able to shoot !!

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Response to Roland99 (Original post)

Thu May 26, 2022, 09:46 AM

5. Those cops who did not step into the breach

Should be fired immediately with a black stain on their record.

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Response to BlueIdaho (Reply #5)

Thu May 26, 2022, 09:55 AM

9. They need to be charged with negligent homicide! They've become accomplices!

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Response to Roland99 (Reply #9)

Thu May 26, 2022, 10:20 AM

12. I was busy at home in the early hours of the incident, before the casualty rates were reported.

I remember walking past the t.v. several times, trying to judge what was happening and remember seeing a lot of cops standing around barriers, very relaxed and talking to each other. This was after they reported that the gunman was down, so the immediate threat was over. But I never guessed he took so many lives down with him, based on how relaxed those cops looked.

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Response to BlueIdaho (Reply #5)

Thu May 26, 2022, 12:01 PM

29. bet you anything

that (sick as this is) they would be fired if they HAD gone it.

Bet you anything it's POLICY for them to do nothing.

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Response to Roland99 (Original post)

Thu May 26, 2022, 09:46 AM

6. Publish the crime scene photos.

Not pictures of the dead victims, pictures of the aftermath.

Damned right it would make people "uncomfortable." And that's the point.

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Response to Buns_of_Fire (Reply #6)

Thu May 26, 2022, 10:43 AM

17. Damn right

Show the world what blood, brain matter and shredded flesh of kids looks like. Instead of gathering all the coward asses on a stage to pose with concern, make damn sure every one of those assholes, lead by Abbott and Cruz into the untouched murder room. Ask Ted, what if that blood and brain matter right there was your 2 daughters. Would you give a good fuck?

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Response to Roland99 (Original post)

Thu May 26, 2022, 10:16 AM

10. Professional good guys with a gun failed us.

Geez. It doesn't get worse than that.

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Response to Baitball Blogger (Reply #10)

Thu May 26, 2022, 10:31 AM

14. Not like the movies

The gun used is a efficient military weapon. Should be in the military hands only. Regular side arm would be just about worthless. So would arming a teacher. The killing was already done in a few seconds. Building schools like forts with military patrol with M16 would be the only way. The good guy with the gun would have to have luck and military training. SWAT team would be required for this type of response at the very least. Banning military weapons is the answer. Other countries have done so with success. Beto did the right thing. The other politicians need to grow a backbone and not cave. Use Biden's position for a bully pulpit. The majority of people in this country are fed up with this.

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Response to Bear Creek (Reply #14)

Thu May 26, 2022, 10:34 AM

15. Realism there. Typical person with a gun isn't prepared to deal with a bad guy

with a military weapon.

I just can't believe that he managed to kill an entire classroom of children, one shot at a time. In forty minutes, the police should have located where he was and should have at least, been prepared to storm the classroom the second they heard the first shot.

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Response to Baitball Blogger (Reply #15)

Thu May 26, 2022, 11:01 AM

21. Emergency Response

This was not the movies or a tv series. The killings was within seconds. Incident command system not just run in willy nilly. These scenarios are military operations and need to be treated as such. Our police system is not a military operation. No one would want militarization of our police forces. Scapegoating and coulda, woulda, and shoulda go with the anger after these types of events. That anger needs to be directed at change. Beto is right and the other democrats need to find a backbone and stand up to the GOP/ NRA to get the job done. The republicans always say do it later so they can get by with covering up and people lose focus. The reform needs to be now not later or it will not happen and we will once again be faced with another tragedy.

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Response to Bear Creek (Reply #21)

Thu May 26, 2022, 11:31 AM

24. Scapegoating?

What exactly do you think the police are for? Handing out parking tickets? . Have you been in a coma? Police can't handle it, they aren't military? ? Really? Then why are they parading around with military equipment acting as if they were? We don't want to militarize the police? You're way late to the party on that one.

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Response to inthewind21 (Reply #24)

Thu May 26, 2022, 11:44 AM

26. Too much movies and tv

Our police forces are not military operations. 2nd hand guessing and arm chair coaches looking for blaming are not helpful. Emergency response and incident control, just running in cause more victims. Seems to be the republican plan of the good guy with a gun.

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Response to Baitball Blogger (Reply #15)

Thu May 26, 2022, 12:01 PM

28. Not sure that would have ended well.

Had the police busted in while some children were still alive, the children would have been caught in the crossfire. A lot of them would have been hit - some by the gunman, others by police officers. Police are trained to use firearms, but I'm not sure they're trained in urban warfare, which is what this situation essentially became.

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Response to cab67 (Reply #28)

Thu May 26, 2022, 12:05 PM

30. If we could have saved even one life, it would have been worth it.

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Response to Baitball Blogger (Reply #30)

Thu May 26, 2022, 12:16 PM

31. yes, but....

....it's also possible it would have led to even more deaths.

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Response to cab67 (Reply #31)

Thu May 26, 2022, 12:28 PM

33. You mean, the cops?

Falling in the line of duty is terrible, horrible, tragic. But the assumption has always been that they took the job for the very reason that they would be prepared to do just that in order to save civilian lives.

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Response to Roland99 (Original post)

Thu May 26, 2022, 10:18 AM

11. We better get robo-cops

That will not hesitate to enter a dangerous situation. The human cops that waited have every drop of blood from every victim on their conscience.

If r's allow the population at large to be armed with military weapons, the only answer is to train LE to act like soldiers in a war zone. Because that's what we have. We have the highest rate of gun ownership (120 for every 100 people), and there is no reliable way to keep the guns away from murderers.

The alternative is to regulate the gd guns. The r's are on their knees for the gun lobby, and won't pull their lips from asses no matter how reluctant LE is to intervene, no matter how many innocent victims die. This is the r's video game. They don't know how to play, but they sure like watching the carnage.

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Response to Roland99 (Original post)

Thu May 26, 2022, 10:25 AM

13. Trump would run into a school unarmed to stop a mass shooter

Last edited Thu May 26, 2022, 11:27 AM - Edit history (1)

remember when he said that?

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Response to IronLionZion (Reply #13)

Thu May 26, 2022, 10:41 AM

16. Yep,

and the MAGAstanians actually believed him.

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Response to IronLionZion (Reply #13)

Thu May 26, 2022, 11:10 AM

22. LOL! Had forgotten. Brilliant. n/t

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Response to Roland99 (Original post)

Thu May 26, 2022, 10:45 AM

18. Well, let's put our own feet in a pair of those shoes. What do we do differently?

Does being in police uniforms suddenly turn us into incredibly incompetent, uncaring cowards?

Not saying we suddenly know what we need to know or are doing what needs to be.

But aren't we, here, suddenly smarter and more insightful, and maybe less despairing, for the little exercise in thinking?

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #18)

Thu May 26, 2022, 10:46 AM

19. Can't really answer that, though, can we? Unless one of us has been trained as they have

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Response to Roland99 (Reply #19)

Thu May 26, 2022, 10:55 AM

20. Just be ourselves to get some benefit. Thinking keeps irrational anger

and fear from forming in the first place -- while identifying what is needed. And of course it's critical to combating Barneyism in ourselves.

Barney's problem was he didn't think. And of course he didn't bother to wait for information to know what to think. At least he was mostly a nice guy and Sheriff Andy kept him from doing much harm.



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Response to Roland99 (Original post)

Thu May 26, 2022, 11:12 AM

23. wow

articulated all the way down to LEO cowardice. Thank you for this. This says it all. And it is just cowardice on the part of the 'protect and serve' bunch in this scenario. Ever since the Columbine school massacre in 1999, which that massacre being what was an American watershed, it has moved to the 4th mass killing of innocents. Since Columbine 146 innocents have died, with at least 182 wounded.

https://www.usnews.com/news/top-news/articles/2022-04-22/guns-became-leading-killer-of-u-s-children-teens-in-2020-analysis-shows

Guns in the wrong hands cause tragedies like the Uvalde-Robb ELEMENTARY School massacre. Stricter rules for purchase are one response I can think of. And this has been said a multitude of times. 300 million+ guns are in private hands in this country with the over 400 million rounded out by military and police ownership.

I don't claim to know the solution to the massacres that have happened since Columbine. But something has to be done about the ability to purchase weapons of mass destruction without proper vetting. And I don't claim to know what that entails. Psychologists must come up with questions to ask that might reveal anger and/or mental illness? Waiting periods that gun shop owners have to adhere to? Hell!!! I don't know!!! There are smarter people than me out in American society that can come up with solutions to gun proliferation. And proliferation sometimes ends up in the wrong hands. The Uvalde killer had bought his weapons just 2 days before his spree of killings of innocent children and his grandmother for whatever reason(s).

I am just one voice out there and it's drowned out by the 2nd Amendment crowd. Okay, I mean nothing to them. Yet while this country has continuously idealized its blood-drenched history of colonisation out of the barrel of a gun, the "wild wild west" being just one era, we must find a way to stop these massacres of innocents by keeping guns out of the wrong hands. But what do I know? I am so sad about these continuing massacres of innocents. And believe me, I have been up close and personal with the lethality of handheld weapons.

I went to war with idealized notions of being part of the "do the right thing for your country crowd". Believing in the Kissinger "Domino Theory". 13 months later I knew it was all a lie. Emotionally, psychologically and still physically. So I can't imagine what the loved ones of these massacre victims are dealing with in seeing the outcome of this purposeful massacre of their children by a person who never should have been able to purchase this semi-automatic weapon of mass destruction. But we all know that. Sorry for this long-winded rant because of my inability to stop massacres like this. I am so very, very sad

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Response to Roland99 (Original post)

Thu May 26, 2022, 11:32 AM

25. Calling a cop a "Barney" is more polite than calling them a pig.

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Response to Roland99 (Original post)

Thu May 26, 2022, 11:54 AM

27. People need to understand,

it's not "politicians," it's FUCKING REPUBLICANS

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Response to Roland99 (Original post)

Thu May 26, 2022, 12:16 PM

32. Either they aren't trained adequately how to respond to they were too scared...

the new training is to actively and aggressively go find and neutralize the shooter, you can't wait for the cavalry. The first responder must go ignoring the injured once they have information on the shooter. They are in command of the incident, waiting for a desk jockey to arrive isn't saving lives. They have to go to the sound of the gunshots. Of course its fucking dangerous, take precautions but go forward.

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Response to Roland99 (Original post)

Thu May 26, 2022, 01:27 PM

34. This video shows that the police ignored pleas from parents to go into school

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Response to Roland99 (Original post)

Thu May 26, 2022, 03:56 PM

35. the good guys with guns doing nothing except parading around in their precious cowboy hats nt

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Response to Roland99 (Original post)

Sat May 28, 2022, 04:17 PM

36. Nothing says ban assault rifles like cops being scared of the shooter who has one.

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