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[cab67]

This message was self-deleted by its author (cab67) on Thu May 26, 2022, 11:38 AM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

[ck4829]

1. Yes, we should.

Police have no obligation to protect you, they can legally lie to you, so I'm going to armchair-quarterback the heck out of them.

[countingbluecars]

6. I agree.

We need a timeline and an explanation of how it was handled. They want to arm teachers yet the trained officers seemed unprepared.

[Lars39]

2. Yes, we should.

Sometimes that's the only way we get answers. I think the FBI should take over the failed hostage situation investigation. They either had him confined with children and teachers while the shooter slaughtered them or they were keeping him contained so he wouldn't hurt anyone else. Police can't have it both ways. The truth will come out.

[Miguelito Loveless]

3. Police are given the literal power of life and death

over us mere civilians. It is a power they exercise with alarming frequency and with little accountability.

So, do we civilians get to criticize them for cowardice?

Yes. Yes, we goddamned surely do.

[cab67]

5. if it was cowardice -

then I agree.

I'm just not yet convinced it was straight-up cowardice.

[Lars39]

10. Lack of training, preparedness,

ineptness....it needs exposing.
Why the hell did they think they were exempt from knowing how to proceed to get live children out of that situation?
The children had probably been "training" to know what to do, why hadn't that police department?

[Miguelito Loveless]

11. Other people were prepared to go in and save children

The police stood around for an hour, except when they physically stopped people from actually doing something.

The police are always quick to pull triggers claiming "they are a gun" except when the other guy actually has a gun, then there all about the caution.

[relayerbob]

4. Oh, come on, who needs facts to make a judgement anyway?

[Cattledog]

7. They were negligent

Guidelines developed in the aftermath of the 1999 Columbine massacre instruct officers to immediately target the gunman. They failed.

[cab67]

15. but that's the point.

How well "targeted" was the gunman? Simply knowing where he is isn't the entirety of it. Sending in three or four officers with handguns to face a gunman with undetermined firearms that could have included fully-automatic rifles (actual M-16s as opposed to semi-automatic AR-15s), and who would have had some sort of cover to protect him from gunfire (he wouldn't be just standing in the middle of the room in full view when officers, whose approach he would have heard, finally arrived), would have ended with three or four dead officers and no children rescued. And not knowing (a) how many children were still alive and (b) where the children were located could have led to an even larger number of children being killed or maimed.

There's being brave, and there's being foolhardy.

[Cattledog]

21. Look at the video. The Cops had AR-15's and body armor holding back the parents

while the killer was shooting kids.

[cab67]

38. I've seen that video.

It doesn't show what the police would have encountered had they rushed into the school.

[fescuerescue]

27. He was the guy with the gun.

Also the cops wouldn't be going in with t shirts and handguns.

They had full tactical gear which includes the same weapons and BETTER than he had.

[cab67]

40. Did they know what he actually had at the time?

[TheRealNorth]

8. People have been armchair quarterbacks the Public Health response to Covid?

What makes the police so special?

[madaboutharry]

9. 19-2 is one of the best television series ever made.

I encourage watching the entire series. It is on Acorn and for purchase on Prime.

I read an article about this scene. It was choreographed to follow the police response to a mass shooting at the École Polytechnique in Montreal in 1989. The shooter targeted woman, killing 14 and injuring 10 others. 4 men were also injured.

[MenloParque]

12. We absolutely should be criticizing these cowards!

These fake ass tough guys each with badges
AND Ar15’s WITHOUT any courage to rush in to protect young children. How can anyone defend these pigs while videos of parents yelling to these cops to go in while shots echoing from the inside suggest a slaughter is happening!! 😠

[LexVegas]

13. Yeah...definitely should be giving the police the benefit of the doubt. nt

[cab67]

19. who said anything about benefit of the doubt?

I'm not suggesting we should assume the officers acted appropriately.

I'm saying we should learn more about what happened before we conclude they acted appropriately or inappropriately.

Like I said - it's entirely possible they were cowards who let children die. To hell with them if that's the case.

But it's also possible they had a solid rationale for not storming the school.

Right now, I don't think we have enough information to make that determination.

[mahatmakanejeeves]

14. At DU? There aren't any buildings collapsing in Florida, so the need for online civil engineers

has dried up.

[BlackSkimmer]

29. Lol.

Haven’t seen all the experts on Alzheimer’s, syphilis, coronary artery disease, etc. in awhile in quite awhile either.

They had tfg dead and buried, yet the cretin lives.

[greenjar_01]

16. Oooof

[Mortos]

17. As a former police officer who participated in active shooter training...

Yes we fucking should. Since Columbine, police officers have been taught to run, not walk, but fucking run to the shooter whether you have one, two, or sixteen officers at scene. If you have more than two, you adopt a stack formation and you RUN directly to the gunshots and engage the shooter. It doesn't matter if he is wearing body armor and has a more powerful weapon than you, you make your way to him and terminate his rampage by emptying your magazine into his fucking face and legs. You may get shot. You may die. But if you aren't willing to sacrifice your life to try and stop 9 and 10-year-olds from being shot point-blank in their heads by a military grade weapon, you don't deserve to wear that badge. If you wait outside while children are being murdered, one after another, how do you live with yourself? At least in Buffalo, the retired cop died trying to stop the shooter. These guys apparently stood by for 40 to 60 minutes while shot after shot rang out, each one snuffing the life a sweet child or teacher.

[cab67]

23. see my comment above

"Running to the shooter" makes assumptions about what the officers knew. They may not have known exactly what they were facing.

If they acted out of cowardice, I'll be at the front of the line of people who want them thrown in the slammer for the rest of their lives. I just want to know more before I make a determination.

[fescuerescue]

33. cops never ever know "exactly what they are facing"

They don't learn that until months later.

[underpants]

26. "Push the fight" is the expression I heard this morning

The officer/resource officer at Stoneman Douglas waited outside if memory serves.

Thank you for your insight and service.

[Mortos]

39. Yes, the coward

waited outside and hid behind his golf cart.

[llashram]

30. EXACTLY

[fescuerescue]

32. At a minimum, it's moves the fight

From childs vs killer to killer vs cops.

[Emile]

18. My old employer would drug test us when we screwed up!

[Sympthsical]

20. I wait until I have full information before forming opinions

One of the big problems with social media and cable news is how information is dripped out, speculated about, and elaborated upon without foundation. People tend to react in the moment to what little piece they've heard bereft of full context.

I'm not sure what the usefulness of that is.

I don't know what happened here. I don't have all the facts. So there's no point in giving an opinion about it. I'm not paid millions of dollars to yap all day. There's no cause for me to fill silence with nothing relevant.

[llashram]

28. just look and listen

live rounds being discharged, screaming parents hearing, the LEOs heard it. Keep waiting. My ears tell me what was happening to those innocent children.

[global1]

22. Supposedly The Police Were In Pursuit Of The Shooter.....

That's why he crashed his truck. I keep asking then - how and why did they let him get into the school?

Something just doesn't add up with the story we're being told about this.

The other thing that I question are the postings he supposedly made.

[greenjar_01]

34. They weren't in pursuit of shit...he crashed the truck because he didn't know how to drive

They tried to imply they were in pursuit but that was all bullshit.

[llashram]

24. there was

shooting going on and heard by the parents. You can give these cowards your initial pass. There were live rounds being discharged in that school. They who are the 'protect and serve' crowd were just milling around being mean to the screaming distraught parents. The person perpetrating the massacre killed 19 human beings. How many could have been saved by getting in during those 40 minutes they milled around with their rifles slung? They were cowardly.

[cab67]

36. or how many more would have been killed?

Please see the text I added above.

Maybe they were cowardly. Maybe they weren't. I don't want to judge until I have the facts. And right now, we don't have all of them.

[Beaverhausen]

25. You have got to be kidding

They stood around, listening to those sweet kids being slaughtered and DID NOTHING but hold back the distraught parents.

FU

[underpants]

31. The officer/resource officer at Stoneman Douglas stayed outside

If memory serves.

I know we are supposed to not make it political but for 2 years all we’ve heard from the right is how purely incredible police are. Of course they aren’t. They are human too but if this story holds up whew that’s a lot to deal with.

[cab67]

35. Please see my added comment above.

That they stood around is not debated.

The reason they stood around is what I'm trying to get at. And no, I'm not kidding - I'm generally averse to forming opinions without full information.

[ancianita]

37. Yes, we should. And so should the town of Uvalde. The good guys who let the bad guy in the

building should lose their jobs.

[anarch]

41. No, we should be taking them to task about it directly

[LizBeth]

42. When we are being told we have to allow our children to face AR15s but not our cops who are

trained, standing outside listening to our children scream as they are slaughtered while these same cops have taser in hand to zap a parent that wants to take down the murdering punk mutilating our children with an AR15 to the point we have to give DNA to identify our babies, ..... Fuck ya we should be armchairing all over the fuckin' place.