General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsCan someone explain what law-abiding citizens do with their semiautomatic rifles?
From what I've read, they are a poor choice for home defense, and I would think they are an equally bad choice for hunting.
Are they practicing? For what?
I know someone at work who likes to shoot hers at a range. I guess taking her semiautomatic away from her would be like taking a bowling ball away from a bowler.
I have to admit, they make lovely props for family Christmas cards. Nothing is more adorable than seven-year-old children posing with rifles across their chests. I bet it melts the heart of any true gun fondler.
Oh, and I saw a video that shows they can be used to cook bacon. So practical.
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LonePirate
(14,366 posts)
PJMcK
(25,039 posts)There are many men who need a gun to justify themselves. As a man without a gun, I find that really weird.
But what about the women who lust for their guns? The OP mentions a female co-worker for whom he firearm is an important part of her life. What motivates her? To me, it's also weird.
keithbvadu2
(40,915 posts)
kimbutgar
(27,198 posts)But what about the women who lust for their guns? That's weird, too.
kimbutgar
(27,198 posts)Have you heard of any women going on shooting sprees?
orleans
(36,864 posts)illinois 1988
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laurie_Dann
but i definitely get your point. other than dann i can't think of another female that went on a shooting spree
Runningdawg
(4,664 posts)They spit shine them, take them to the range and burn through a weeks salary in ammo to prove to their peers they are an OG.
CivicGrief
(256 posts)Keeping up with the Joneses (and Smiths and Wessons) has certainly changed.
PoindexterOglethorpe
(28,493 posts)
Celerity
(54,266 posts)
Igel
(37,504 posts)"Original gangster" underwent semantic shift to mean "expert" or more recently just "original."
That's what the Interthing tells me.
PSPS
(15,309 posts)I guess having to ask such things comes at a time in one's life when, while scanning the covers on the magazines in the checkout line, you see a splashy picture of a couple overlaid with a large-font title like, "The Scandal That Will Destroy Bailey and Jason!!11!" and wonder, "Who are Bailey and Jason?"
DFW
(60,100 posts)Having your semi-automatic rifle fully encased in clear lucite, and mounted on the wall above your fireplace would make one HELL of a conversation piece..........
PXR-5
(576 posts)But it's an ego thing. Like big mudder tires, coal rolling, camo hats and jackets.
Ferryboat
(1,261 posts)A competent hunter only needs 2 rounds.
Emphasis on the word competent.
Texas governor Abbott goes on about access to long guns. He is trying to include assault weapons with traditional rifles like 30.06 or a 30-30.
MarineCombatEngineer
(18,050 posts)I have several friends who hunt the wild hogs in our neck of the woods, they're also good for predator control, like the multitude of coyotes here in AZ, also, if someone hunts anything requiring a hunting license, then only a 5 round magazine is allowed.
Now, that being said, I personally see no reason for anyone to use an AR or AK clone to hunt with, but far be it from me to tell someone else what they want or need.
Ferryboat
(1,261 posts)but not for hunting game animals. Yes a 5 round clip is standard, but anyone who calls himself a hunter should only need 1 or 2 shots to bring down a game animal without any suffering.
If you need more perhaps your taking an ill-advised shot?
I have past up plenty of shots because of less than ideal conditions.
sanatanadharma
(4,089 posts)Ego divides the world into the categories of mine and not-yet-mine.
Ego is fed in the desire for something.
Ego is happier yet in the acquiring of the desired.
But ego is happiest when consuming (using) that which has been desired.
Ego with a big gun becomes 'egun' and can't be satiated by any less than repeated blood sacrifice.
Gun owners can only pray they die before the sickness of engorged 'egun' causes a mental-snap turning the good ego into a bad 'egun'.
HAB911
(10,424 posts)
Emile
(42,075 posts)bending bullets. I got rid of it and replaced it with a lever action Henry. My two shotguns are both pumps. I quit hunting years ago, but when I did hunt I found a semi automatic as useless.
Sneederbunk
(17,439 posts)
gay texan
(3,202 posts)They get to pretend like they're bad asses!
It makes em feel REALLY tough and REALLY manly!!!
PTWB
(4,131 posts)AR-15s are good for both home defense and hunting.
What they’re good for isn’t the question folks should be asking. The question is whether or not we, as a modern and enlightened society, want semi-automatic rifles to be as common as apple pie.
If we decide the answer to that question is no, we will need enact some massive cultural shifts that allow us to ban sales of new semi-automatic rifles and the possession of those already in circulation.
See EarlG’s thread about attacking the 2A like we did with smokers.
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100216731661
CivicGrief
(256 posts)EarlG makes a lot of good points. Arguments with gun fondlers don't go well.
PTWB
(4,131 posts)The AR is, objectively, a highly effective weapons platform for both home defense and hunting. Folks who claim otherwise are either unfamiliar with the subject or being disingenuous.
The AR’s lethality, accuracy, portability, and ease of use are exactly what makes it such a problem for society in the hands of mass shooters. But those traits also make it very effective for home defense and for hunting.
One cannot argue that the AR is a poor home defense weapon and a poor hunting rifle, while arguing that it is incredibly lethal and too dangerous for the public to possess.
Back to my point: the question is not what the AR is good for, the question is whether or not a modern society wants to allow semi-automatic rifles to be so easily accessible to anyone who wants one.
CivicGrief
(256 posts)The main ones involve the safety of the members of the household. Spraying bullets at an intruder can have unintended consequences.
But you are right that this argument gets us nowhere.
My original post was a bit facetious, but i genuinely don't understand the obsession with guns.
PTWB
(4,131 posts)When properly loaded with highly frangible ammunition designed for home defense, AR-15s actually put household members and neighbors at reduced risk compared to many other home defense choices. Highly frangible lightweight bullets will exhibit far less over penetration than a 12 gauge shotgun loaded with 00 buckshot or slugs, for example.
A responsible home defender will eliminate as many variables as possible. That means they need to practice to the point of proficiency with their weapon. They must select a weapon and ammunition combination that minimizes risk of over penetration. They must equip their home defense weapon with a quality mounted light to eliminate the risk of mistaking a family member for an intruder in the middle of the night.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)types of ammunition. I was wondering about that.
patphil
(9,003 posts)They were designed to inflict wounds that would incapacitate enemy soldiers; lots of damage and bleeding.
They lacked the knock down power of a heavy bullet; only 60 grains. Stack that up against a 30-30 with a 170 grain bullet.
Three times the weight means a lot more energy, which translated to a much better chance of killing a deer with one shot. The AR-15 is a very poor choice for hunting.
As far as home defense is concerned, I would much prefer a 9mm pistol. It's much easier to point and shoot quickly. Nearly as much stopping power at close range due to the heavier, 80 grain, bullet. But if you're really feeling the need, a 357 magnum gets it done.
I don't believe the AR-15 is a good choice in either case. To me it seems more of an ego gun than an actually useful weapon.
MichMan
(17,089 posts)onecaliberal
(36,594 posts)
PTWB
(4,131 posts)The first is that the AR platform is easily chambered in a wide variety of cartridges, including many common deer hunting calibers.
The second is that the standard .223 / 5.56 chambering is commonly used for hunting smaller game and varmints, such as coyotes, ground hogs, rock chucks, rabbits, wild hogs, and many others. The .223 is a highly effective deer cartridge when using properly constructed bullets combined with proper shot placement.
I would not recommend the .223 for deer hunting by inexperienced hunters or folks who aren't well versed in the terminal ballistics of their chosen round. But deer hunting is only one subset of hunting.
As for home defense, your choice of the 9mm is fine (although I'm not sure what 80 grain bullets you're shooting, that seems incredibly light as most common defense loads are 124 grain or 147 grain). I owe my life to a 9mm and will not disparage it's effectiveness.
That said, the question is not whether the 9mm is effective at home defense (it surely is), the question is whether the AR-15 is effective at home defense and it, too, surely is.
patphil
(9,003 posts)I see it comes in a wide variety of weights. Makes it even better for home defense.
I agree, the AR-15 is basically a varmint and small game gun.
For home defense, I think the one handed operation of a pistol is far superior to a rifle.
Granted the AR-15 can work, but in the case of invaders in your house, a pistol is a better choice. You're working at very short range in close quarters; pistol is more flexible.
Fla_Democrat
(2,622 posts)9x19? An AR pistol, with even a 7 inch barrel would far surpass the typical pistol, and be more versatile, allowing for better optics, illumination and targeting.
With the proper mag well, your side arm and AR pistols would be magazine compatible. 
milestogo
(23,016 posts)a whole lot of people.
dchill
(42,660 posts)SoonerPride
(12,286 posts)See a lot of family photos with with everyone sporting their toy of death.
It is grotesque.
comradebillyboy
(10,953 posts)Sunday at a very nice private gun club. It was always a very pleasant and relaxing social event. The group broke up after we retired.
WhiskeyGrinder
(26,878 posts)choice for that purpose.
airmid
(526 posts)from the occasional sick or rabid predator. That’s about it. Does that qualify?
SYFROYH
(34,214 posts)People opinions can differ, of course
If you have to shoot someone to defend yourself a single hit with a 5.56 round can disable a dangerous person. Some people prefer shotguns or handguns.
They are light and compact which make them idea for indoor use and hunting. In many cases, 5.56 may not be sufficient for larger animals but are fine for small deer, coyotes, and feral pigs down south. ARs can be outfitted to shoot large caliber bullets. see AR-10. All guns have they pros and cons for various legitimate uses.
Other times they are safely stored at the ready for home defense.
I mostly shoot them recreationally and like to collect different AR configurations.
MarineCombatEngineer
(18,050 posts)but far be it from me to tell others what they need or want.
Have a great weekend.
Disaffected
(6,376 posts)It has nothing necessarily to do with penis or ego enhancers. Different strokes for different folks etc.
Guns otherwise have no legitimate purpose IMO other than for law enforcement and the military.
BTW, I would never shoot an animal for any reason other than for self defense or humane euthanasia.
keithbvadu2
(40,915 posts)Worship the gun and worship with the gun.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2018/02/28/pennsylvania-church-ceremony-guns/383815002/
Worshippers clutching AR-15 rifles hold commitment ceremony
Celerity
(54,266 posts)Stockholm and London anyway) BUT I know what I would get for home protection IF we ever lived in a place where it was legal and we felt we needed it.
Simple, basic tactical shotgun
Mossberg 12-Gauge 930 Tactical - 8 Shot SPX - Pistol Grip
MarineCombatEngineer
(18,050 posts)
Just the sound of a shell being racked is usually enough to make someone with hostile intent crap their pants and run hell bent for high leather.
Igel
(37,504 posts)And occasionally javelina hunting. He's a federally licensed firearms dealer and once actually got to play with an assault rifle--said he wanted to "audition" it for a prospective buyer, but he just wanted to play with it. (As for a buyer, it's not easy to get permission to own an actual assault rifle.)
People in TX use semi-automatic rifles for hunting feral hogs. You wouldn't want to use a single-shot rifle. Properly trained, you can reload a bolt-action rifle fairly fast, but still if you have a huge hog running at you it's hard to work the bolt and run. I also heard somebody say they put down skunks and armadillos with their semi-automatic rifle. You don't want skunks around the house or barn and armadillos carry leprosy.
Had a roommate once who had a Glock semi-automatic pistol (all his guns were semi-automatic) for defense while home and biking to work, rifle at all other times. He worked for an armored truck company, sometimes driving and sometimes riding shotgun, and was worried that some robber would ID him and use him to gain access to company grounds or inside the truck. Oh, and almost every year he got his buck with his semi-automatic rifle. Took various and sundry firearms to the range almost weekly, playing with different mixes of powder and keeping track of accuracy and bullet velocity, trying to perfect the optimal bullet weight, powder mix, powder amount for his guns. He had notebooks full of actual data, mixed his own propellant and cast his own bullets.
Most hunter friends had a semi-automatic pistol that they took with their more traditional hunting rifles to finish a deer that was wounded and slowly dying. This was a while back, and they weren't wealthy enough to upgrade to assault-style weapons when their 15-year-old Remington bolt-action rifles worked perfectly well.
These things can be used for a variety of things. But they're things you have to be interested in doing.
I guess I own a semi-automatic Glock, it's in my brother's gun safe in a different state. Inherited it from parents (no background check and I'm not sure that the laws proposed would prohibit inheritance of firearms). Haven't ever touched it.
hack89
(39,181 posts)Most states require a 5 round magazine. But they are accurate, easy to carry, and extremely rugged - everything you would want in a hunting rifle.
Fla_Democrat
(2,622 posts)But we can't have a good faith conversation. Certainly not here.
However, if you really one day want an answer, might I suggest you have the discussion with "someone at work who likes to shoot hers at a range". 
Rob H.
(5,833 posts)My dad has a couple of semiautomatic rifles chambered in 22lr that he used to hunt rabbits. I think one has a 16-round capacity and don’t know the other one’s. He uses them for target shooting now.
hardluck
(779 posts)They’re both a piece of history along with the Mauser K98k and the Lee-Enfield bolt action rifles.
nini
(16,824 posts)There is zero reason anyone needs that type of gun unless they're on the ground fighting the Russians in Ukraine or similar - NONE.
This claim that it's needed for personal defense is BS with all the other options available. If you need something that powerful to disable an intruder, then learn to shoot better and piss off.
ecstatic
(35,058 posts)In home invasion or collapse of society?