This country needs a divorce....

[Bigmack]

No matter who wins, we will still have two Americas.....
The unscientific, militaristic, fact-challenged, low information, Fox watching, (mostly) rural...

and... the rest of us.

Mostly science based, peace-oriented, fact-oriented, high information, MSNBC (or Link) watching, (mostly) urban/suburban.

Watching the storm reports, it struck me tonight for the 4,837th time that when this election is over, we'll still have two Americas.

Those fucking people are not going to go away... ever. They have been emboldened by creatures - far, far to the right of Rmoney - to say the most outlandish things and feel that they are not only correct, but superior.

We need a divorce. Time to sit down with the lawyers, divide up the property and assets, and start new lives free of each other.

This is a sick marriage... let's end it now.

[villager]

1. Well, collapse of empire may bring a fraying of the "United" States by mid-century or so

...and a break down into smaller, regional polities.

Which, if you're in the right polity, might not be so bad!

[Baitball Blogger]

2. It's going to be like that until they are held responsible for the decisions they make.

Look, Republican towns are getting away with huge violations of constitutional rights of the property owners. It's their way of life. It's an entitled culture. Until someone exposes it, and authorities hold the responsible parties accountable, they will have an ideologue worth fighting for.

You want to take them down? Pull their foundation from under them. If something is right, it must be right for all. If something is wrong, it should be wrong for all.

[lib2DaBone]

3. No, the right wing nut jobs deserve nothing....

People on the left need to stand up , demand reason, and fight for their belief.

For far too long.. people on the left have been allowing way much to much credibiity to the right wing nuts. It has to stop.

[Zalatix]

21. Okay, so we do that, then what? We back them into a political corner?

56 million people voted for John McCain and Sarah Palin despite their rabid insanity. Even if we win Congress and the White House and every blue/purple state legislature and Gubernatorial elections (edited to add: which I hope to see happen in my lifetime), there is no scenario that sees us pacifying or "educating" 56 million crazy people. If these people find themselves backed into a political corner where they see their vision of America completely unraveling, what do you think will happen?

I know what'll happen - we'll be better off cutting these zombies loose than taking option #2, that's what.

[quinnox]

4. reminds me of the famous Scharwzenegger line in

I think it was in "Total Recall", he shoots his wife after being in close combat with her (she was a spy or something like that and was trying to kill him) and after shooting her, he says "Consider that a divorce"

[lyingsackofmitt]

5. Will these assholes,

if given charge of our federal goverment withhold disaster recovery funds needed by blues states inorder to punish us or demand leverage for cuts to social programs?

[Thekaspervote]

6. We live in interesting times??

The rethugs, by their own admission know they are too white, too old and too male. No offense to anyone who falls in that category..you're here on DU because you're not close minded.

I look at leaders like Julian Castillo and see the future of this country. They want the American dream and are willing to organize, work and move forward even in the smallest of ways to realize that dream, and it scares them to death!!

I believe E J Dionne said we are still fighting the civil war if only ideologically. If we give up they will win and the generations to come will be the ones that stand to loose the most.

I understand your frustration and would at times like nothing more than to divide the country to end the strife. The problem with that is they wouldn't be happy with a just a fair half. Just like Medicare social security and other social safety net programs. "oh" they say... "we aren't talking about those that are currently seniors and relying on those programs." not right now their not, but just wait, if they make some gains in that direction. They will be next. Then what?? We have to make a stand, be in it for the long haul... For our children..remember the children. Nothing worth while unfortunately comes easy. PLEASe keep the faith

[myshofer]

19. be optimistic

at such time of frustration we should gather our positive energy, then the doors of hope always open.this divorce you are talking about is not that easy rather impossible.

[L0oniX]

28. POTUS 2016...

[LukeFL]

65. Julian Castro

[Sparky 1]

83. It's time for a female president!

[philly_bob]

7. No, the Right Wing has made racist & ignorant attitudes socially acceptable.

After the right-wing collapse of November 2012, we may go back to the hip 60's, when racism and sexism and anti-scientism were socially unacceptable.

Just dreamin'.

[jimlup]

8. I've felt that the marriage was over for some time...

Let's get on with our lives. Oh, and I don't think they should even be allowed visitation.

[ecstatic]

9. I agree. Let them create their ideal society

Which states can they safely go to without disrupting the rest of us? Idaho? Montana?

[cali]

80. Trail of Tears? You going to round "them" up and

force march them to a reservation? Demand oaths of fealty to the new "liberal" government? Madness.

[Martin Eden]

10. Religious voters need to divorce themselves from the party of the money changers

Then we wouldn't feel the need to divorce ourselves from half the country.

[jbgood1977]

11. How should such a seperation take place?

It should be fair and equitable for both parties from the outset. Then they can suffer at their own hands. But how to do it?

[Bigmack]

14. In the late Middle Ages... the Peace of Augsburg....

.. divided central Europe between the Catholics and the Lutherans.

The dominant Religion in the area.. and usually the ruler... got that area.

We just test the politics in an area, and some people move.

Very uprooting, I realize, but so is a divorce.

[PavePusher]

41. Sounds like... ethnic cleansing.

And that's exactly what would happen.

No, thank you.

[jbgood1977]

47. How big of an area to test though?

A state, a county, or by city? And what about Federal assets? Of course buildings would stay in place but what about postal vehicles? What about military assets and personell? How about the nukes? What comes to mind right away is that Texas has it's own ground and air forces. If Texas decided that things were not being distributed fairly then they may decide to take things. Then we have a shooting war and not a divorce.

[LukeFL]

67. Divide the country. East of The USA

And West of the USA. It's not ethnic cleansing. It's living in peace and in a progressive scientific society. Hopefully, with some religious liberties too, iam, a catholic. I bet in three yrs Max they will start huge exodus into our country looking for work and freedom. Similar to what Mexicans do now.

[Sophiegirl]

12. Somewhere along the line...

...many of our citizens forgot that our country was based upon freedom of religion. And the division of church and State was put in place for a purpose. The division that now exists is based upon a loud force of people that probably aren't even closely aware of that or simply don't care...as long as their religious beliefs are forced on everyone else.

This will not change. Why? Because what those people believe is being taught to their children and so, the division we now see will never end.

I hate how that sounds, but it is what I believe.

[Comrade_McKenzie]

13. As long as we allow the media to build this mindless zombie army...

It won't get any better.

[ashtonelijah]

15. Yes, you're totally right, kick my Mississippi ass out

Kick me, my family, my loved ones, my memories, and all my progressive friends fighting like hell here for a better place! Shove your elitist snobbery right down our noses and cut us off so we can die and collapse into third world status at the hand of the dirty, inept politicians that control the (mostly poor) citizenry here.

Don't try to understand the issues. Don't try to understand the manipulation of the poor white and the poor black, the ole boy system that has held us down as slaves. Just throw us out so you don't ever have to worry about it.

And for all of those down here fighting against that system, you keep thumbing your elitist noses down at us. You keep telling us there is no hope of making the South a better place. But we had no help from you last year in my state, Mississippi, when we soundly DEFEATED the Personhood Amendment here even as the national media expected that we dumb rednecks would just pass it.

You keep pushing the narrative that we're all stupid, hopeless, useless, and ignorant. Meanwhile, there are a lot of good progressive down here people fighting like hell for the future we know we can have. It'd be nice if those who don't think it can be done would stop interrupting those of us who are doing it.

But just don't call yourself a liberal. Because this is the place where liberals come, fight, win, and die. Just ask Dr. King.

[GObamaGO]

17. Excellent post

Thank you for being a voice of reason!

[GeorgeGist]

18. That was ugly.

[LanternWaste]

36. No more, nor no less than the sentiment contained in your original post.

No more, nor no less than the sentiment contained in your original post.

(let's try not to hold other people to a higher standard than we hold ourselves simply because they have a different opinion...)

[PavePusher]

42. No, it was quite awesome, actually. n/t

[onenote]

56. No. That was perfect.

[pampango]

20. Doesn't seem very liberal to want to cut loose 'stupid' poor people who don't know what's good for

themselves, does it?

As with world poverty or global warming, if you believe that the problem is so big and unsolvable that you just have to cut folks loose, wall them off and look out for number 1, then you have become part of the problem not the solution.

There is already a party that wants to cut folks loose when they need help, to not try to help because the problem is too big, and to build walls rather than solve the underlying causes that make walls seem like a solution. And that party is not, I believe, the Democratic party.

[LukeFL]

68. The problem is

That the majority of those ppl don't want the help. I somewhat agree to the sentiment of the op. We have been fighting tooth and nails for decades for the right of Everyone and it seems half of the "everyone" dont want us to.

So, yes, maybe they should have their own United States Of Red.

[Zalatix]

22. Question for you: if we liberals totally win the Blue and Purple states, we set the nation's agenda.

We'll effectively own Congress and the Presidency in that case.

What do you think your RW neighbors in the south will do to liberals who live amongst them?

[antigone382]

58. They'll complain and be angry and deal with it.

Believe it or not, the vast majority of people in the South don't run around looking to blow the brains out of anyone who disagrees with them. There are individual episodes of violence...in some places, like coal country, the coal companies have such a stranglehold that it is genuinely dangerous to oppose their interests. But that doesn't translate to a significant number of Republican southerners going out for blood if the Democrats take control of Congress and the Presidency.

[Zalatix]

61. I simply don't believe that. We've already had one civil war.

I'm in California and the ones near me are armed to the teeth and practicing shooting so much I can sometimes hear the echoes of their gunfire on a quiet night. Cops and laws be damned. It wasn't like this before 2009.

[antigone382]

72. I live in the south. My neighbors don't regularly try to shoot me.

People can and do see the humanity in each other.

[Bigmack]

24. We'll give you political asylum... oh... and shove your "elitism" meme where the sun don't shine.

[antigone382]

60. I don't want political asylum. Neither do my environmentalist, GLBT, multiracial friends.

We have family, beautiful land, and a culture that has enormous artistic, literary, and just plain human value for all of its warts. I have plenty of good liberal friends right here, and plenty of Republican friends who don't bother about my beliefs, but lend me a helping hand when I need it.

Of course I want to change the political beliefs of this place. Most of the people I know are poor and many are in bad health, and believe it or not their human worth outweighs the difficulties of living in a place that suffers so much for the policies that a majority of the people support. For better or worse, I'd rather live in a place where people have diverse enough political opinions that they know reducing people to their political and religious beliefs is just plain silly.

Besides, I'd be lost without my bluegrass.

[JoeyT]

26. Oh it wasn't the south he was griping about,

it was "rural" people. So we won't be on our own long enough for the teabaggers to even think about starting the purges. It'll take all of about four days for the people that think food grows in supermarkets to resort to cannibalism.

[53tammy]

49. Committed to Life

ashtonelijah

We will NOT abandon you !!! Ever!!!

[ashtonelijah]

76. Thanks everyone who responded to my post positively

I know it may have been harsh, but I really appreciate those of you who are understanding and who stand with the progressives down here, like myself, who haven't given up. Thank you, thank you, thank you. You give me hope.

[Go Vols]

78. +1

[Ellipsis]

16. No what it needs by the same logic is... to get laid. n/t

[whistler162]

23. Not this idiotic tripe again!

[bluestate10]

52. I agree with the OP, see my other post. The division can be painless. I don't see painless if we

stay as one nation.

[cali]

81. that is a grand delusion.

really? painless. do tell exactly how you accomplish that. In fucking detail.

[Skidmore]

84. That is the most incredibly naive thing I've read in some time.

And the original post was pretty darned naive too. You know, being human is a painful experience. Not a single one of us has lived life without difficulty or disagreement. We only rise when we learn to overcome both and to find common ground. Running is easy. Hiding is easy. Living with others is an achievement worthy of effort.

[JoeyT]

25. Yeah.

Good luck growing food and timber on sidewalks.

What, you thought your food didn't come from us vile rural folk? Most cities also draw in their water from a good way off. Better buy a lot of rain barrels.

[bluethruandthru]

27. We need to look at how the insanity came about...

The telecommunications act of 1996 relaxed the ownership restrictions on media. That allowed companies to purchase large numbers of radio and TV stations across the country including many outlets in each market. That suddenly made radio/tv groups a way to make huge amounts of money that wasn't possible before.
Owners began 'consolidating' by firing local on-air talent, programmers, etc. and running syndicated programming on their stations. This gave rise to the Rush Limbaugh/Sean Hannity/Glenn Becks of the world and pushed out local information and influence.
This is something the republicans had forseen and pushed for for many years. Give them credit...they knew what needed to be done to gain control of the media.
Once you have that control, you can tell the country whatever you like. You can just make shit up if you like and people will believe you because we had been conditioned to trust what we heard on "news" programs.
Until we go back to extremely limited media ownership (ownership should also truly be local)..we'll never start to undo the damage.

[MicaelS]

29. So in half a country full of "militaristic" types...

Where there just happen to be WMDs, you just think they're just to going to "let you go" and walk away? With you taking probably the bulk of the wealth, valuable property, museums? Hollow laugh.

And since the modern Left is notoriously not willing to join the US Military, that means the US Military is comprised mostly of those "militaristic" types that hail from and live in the parts of the country you despise. You think they're going to choose you over their family, friend and neighbors? Second Hollow Laugh.

Who is going to defend you against them, should they decide to take up arms against you because they view YOU are the traitor? You? Third Hollow Laugh. People with your mindset are too afraid to even touch a gun, let alone pick one up and learn to use it.

Lest you think elements of the US Military might not turn on the modern Left in an instant, I remind you of what happened at a place called Kent State.

You sound like a wealthy man who want to divorce his wife because he's tired of her, or she's too old, or not attractive anymore, so he can take up with a younger, hotter, prettier woman. And then he expects the divorce to be "amicable" just because he wants it. And the wife is thinking "scorched earth" and taking him to the cleaners.

[Bigmack]

35. "People with your mindset are too afraid to even touch a gun, let alone pick one up and learn to..."

4 years USMC, MOS 0331, in country 13 months.

Yeah... too afraid...

Up yours!

[MicaelS]

38. You can take you hatred of those ..

That don't live in the big urban areas in the Northeast, Great Lakes or West Coast and insert it where the sun does not shine.

[Bigmack]

40. Never said I hated people who live in the rural areas....

... I said that rural areas are (mostly) Republican... with all that comes with that title.

Look at the maps of voting in the 2010 election and tell me different.

http://elections.nytimes.com/2010/results/house

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

43. I live in a rural area and agree with BigMack.

USMC '61-'65

[LukeFL]

71. I live in The south And i agree with The OP

I also own a gun for security purposes. I know how to use it. I have taken countless hours of practice. I am as liberal as they come. I will like Political Asylum to the Blue Progressive United States Of America of the east or west.
I know what it is to be surrounded by loonies.

[argiel1234]

48. we outnumber your type of mindset 10-1

thats what militaristic types, right wing types, racist types are very afraid of.

Be cautious in your "hollow laughs" and your hippie punching mindset (modern Left...lol)

[aikoaiko]

30. I find the other side puzzling too -- but there's no need for this metaphor

We have always been a house divided on various issues, but there is still one America.

[TeamPooka]

31. The GOP won't pay the alimony or child support. nt

[hughee99]

32. People in big cities must be so smart because their schools are so good.

That's why they're full of "mostly science based, peace-oriented, fact-oriented, high information, MSNBC (or Link) watching, (mostly) urban/suburban)" people.

If only we could get some of the more rural hicks the sort of quality public education you'd find in NYC, Chicago, Detroit or Los Angeles, maybe they'd be smarter and vote Democratic, too.

[Bigmack]

34. "mostly".....

Say what you will, there is an urban/rural split.

http://elections.nytimes.com/2010/results/house

[hughee99]

37. There definitely is, though I'm not sure it's attributable

to people in cities being smart and well informed while people in rural communities are dumb and poorly informed.

[Whovian]

33. (In my best slingblade voice) Mmm-hmm. I done went a little past high school.

Mmm-hmm. I lives in the country. Mmm-hmm. Somes might call it rural out here.

And I gots this here hammer, mm-hmm.

Know what I's saying there, city boy?

&feature=relmfu

&feature=relmfu

The best thing Billy Bob Thornton has done to date.

[PavePusher]

39. This binary world you live in... is it a great comfort to you?

You've just advocated blatent bigotry and what amounts to a civil war.

This is not acceptable on D.U.

[LanternWaste]

44. Building more walls is emotionally convenient, but counter-productive to the collective good...

Quite few marriages work through the problem to find a solution.

But, being as that's both difficult work and viscerally unsatisfying, I can understand why many would simply surrender and give up, find a new nation, and then deal with the same problems all over again-- most likely ion the same way, thus continuing a pattern of defeat.

To be honest, I wish it were only Republican-- or even political hacks who feel that "Those fucking people are not going to go away... ever" whom we can apply the "he unscientific, militaristic, fact-challenged, low information" sobriquet to; however my own experience illustrates to me that that type of person may be found in every strata of both culture and society, in every nation, and throughout history.

Building more walls is emotionally convenient, but counter-productive to the collective good of a people.

[just1voice]

45. The moron/criminal repukes need trials and long jail sentences

That's the usual way criminals are removed from society.

[argiel1234]

46. I agree

but the media and 1% like to play it up as if the country were evenly split. Its why the use electronic voting to flip votes to make it seem like a even race.

The truth is, its not. We outnumber them 10-1 in this country, and if there were ever a civil war again(no, Im not advocating for it) it would be quite evident how very small in numbers compared to us.

That is what they are very afraid of being revealed. If it were revealed, this country would move much much farther left in terms of food and housing assistance, breaking up of banks and telecom monopolies, investigating financial fraud, etc etc..

[NoOneMan]

50. Another problem is that science is too often confused with technology

Advancement is confused with iPhone versions.

[bluestate10]

51. I had the same thought several times today.

There is no way in a sane nation that Romney should be within 30 points of Obama. There is no way that the religious right and those from the hard right are going to change their behavior and waiting for all of them to die off takes to long, not to mention that they poison many of their children and grandchildren. We must break into two countries, each contiguous and having coastline and deep water ports. Our side will take the Northeast down to North Carolina, the Midwest, upper plains states, New Mexico, Arizona and the west coast, we will pay for any state that we take that gives us too many. The other country can have the rest including Texas and regrettably, Florida due to where Florida is located. Citizens on each side that don't won't to be part of their crafted country will get two years and money to move to the other country and automatically become citizens. By doing the breakup this way, we can have a velvet revolution that won't have the bloodshed that I am afraid we are headed for if this union stays as one.

[onenote]

57. Just because you had the thought several times

doesn't mean it was a good thought.

[Flying Squirrel]

53. Here's why you're wrong (a picture's worth a thousand words)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021678939#post20

[Bucky]

54. Great. A call for secession on the eve of a great victory.

What a maroon.

[felix_numinous]

55. We were all born on this Earth

we all belong here. We are all native, actually, just some got here before others, and some people want to think of themselves as special. We are actually in sore need of a reconciliation, not a divorce. There is too much work to be done--and we don't have to like each other, just be willing to work side by side.

Peace ~~ Felix

[cali]

59. ridiculous. how on earth do you achieve it without massive bloodshed?

You can't. Yours is a fantasy and it doesn't help a thing.

[Bigmack]

63. So.. all divorces end up with massive bloodshed..? They don't want us. nt

[cali]

79. seriously? because a divorce between two people is exactly the

same as splitting a country of over 300,000,000 people. NOT in the slightest. What do you do about cities like Salt Lake which are primarily liberal in a sea of red? Or red enclaves in a sea of blue?

[Douglas Carpenter]

62. North American People are a common people bonded by a commonness whether we like it or not

Whatever deliberate or accident of history brought it about there exist today a North American people who share a commonness that is apparent to the entire world and even more obviously so to ourselves when we leave our shores. Just as British people, German people, French people and numerous others share a commonness in spite of centuries of even far great political divides and catastrophic civil wars and centuries of class divisions, ethnic, religious and regional divisions and divisions based on massively far greater divides of political ideology.

As hard as it may be to put one’s finger on exactly what it is – North Americans regardless or region, religion or lack thereof, ethnicity or political ideology share something in common that identifies us with each other and as well as to the whole world. This hard to define bond of commonness is recognizable to everyone regardless from whatever part or region of North America we hale. It mysteriously crosses bonds from the riches to the poorest, from the most educated to the most ignorant and even from the most rabidly right-wing to the most dogmatically left-wing. On some plane we are in spite of efforts to the contrary to divide us – we still remain E pluribus unum – whether we like it or not.

[renie408]

66. You know that North America includes Mexico and Canada, right?

yeah, I can totally see where we share this evident-to-the-rest-of-the-world sameness with Mexico.

Totally.

[Douglas Carpenter]

69. I would agree that Mexico would not fit into that equation - I do believe that in spite of great

efforts by some Canadians to define themselves as a different people - we are essentially the same people with only relatively minor differences -

[mil_5529dem]

64. you make some notable and interesting points

But I'm not too keen on your tone..

[jeff47]

70. You know nothing of our country's history.

Go learn what our history is actually like, and you might begin to have a clue.

Hint: We're actually pretty damn united compared to our past. Even excluding the Civil War era.

[Bigmack]

73. Taught HS history for 30 years, guy... Masters in US History....

After all that, I recognize a dysfunctional country when I see it. You think the Weimar Republic can't happen here? You think the US is immune to forces in history? You think we can't fail or fall. Go learn what history is actually like.

This shit is new. We've gone thru the era of the Robber Barons, but those guys were wimps compared to the world oligarchs running things now. We've had Great Awakenings, but not in these numbers. We've never spent on the military like this in relative peacetime. Electronic communication has given us the ability to spread the most insane crap at nanospeed. We've always been anti-intellectual, but not like this.

Maybe we can't simply divorce, but I've yet to see anything written on this thread that tells me what will ever bring the two Worlds of this country together.

[upi402]

77. ^ + 1,000 n/t

[cali]

82. how depressing. Oh,dear. Your poor students.

and you clearly know exactly dog shit about the Robber Barons if you actually believe that they were wimps compared to today's oligarchs. In fact, they were strikingly similar. Also, your knowledge of Great Awakening I and II leaves something to be desired.

No one said that we can bring disparate world views together, but a civil war- yes, that's what it would be- is hardly the answer, dear.

[Bigmack]

85. Funny... my students don't feel like you do about my abilities...

Admin, too... if that makes any difference.

Robber Barons were a domestic breed... like the Robber Barons in Europe. The ones now are World Robber Barons. It's a question of scale.

The Great Awakenings were limited by the communication of the time... Now Rev. Whackjob can preach to the world.

Your reading comprehension is certainly lacking if you gathered I was advocating civil war. A peaceful separation into two countries is possible. Witness the division of Czechoslovakia into the Czech Republic and the Slovak Republic. After Communism and oppression, Czechoslovakia was free, and divided itself along ethnic lines.

Simply... they don't want us. Never will. We won't be like them. Never will.

Hence... the divorce.

I've learned a lot from this thread. I'll back down. No divorce. We'll just stay in this relationship and hate each other and block each other. We should stay together "For the sake of the kids."... won't that be good for everybody!

Dear...

[rad51]

74. What percentage of Americans do you think fit your criteria of acceptable citizens?

[upi402]

75. Not their fault. Blame the MEDIA

Blame the MEDIA traitors who betray democracy daily. People have always been easy to propagandize.

It's the whores who do the bidding of their pimps just to posses fancy shit.