Plastic Recycling Doesn't Work and Will Never Work

[brooklynite]

The Atlantic

Americans support recycling. We do too. But although some materials can be effectively recycled and safely made from recycled content, plastics cannot. Plastic recycling does not work and will never work. The United States in 2021 had a dismal recycling rate of about 5 percent for post-consumer plastic waste, down from a high of 9.5 percent in 2014, when the U.S. exported millions of tons of plastic waste to China and counted it as recycled—even though much of it wasn’t.

Recycling in general can be an effective way to reclaim natural material resources. The U.S.’s high recycling rate of paper, 68 percent, proves this point. The problem with recycling plastic lies not with the concept or process but with the material itself.

The first problem is that there are thousands of different plastics, each with its own composition and characteristics. They all include different chemical additives and colorants that cannot be recycled together, making it impossible to sort the trillions of pieces of plastics into separate types for processing. For example, polyethylene terephthalate (PET#1) bottles cannot be recycled with PET#1 clamshells, which are a different PET#1 material, and green PET#1 bottles cannot be recycled with clear PET#1 bottles (which is why South Korea has outlawed colored PET#1 bottles.) High-density polyethylene (HDPE#2), polyvinyl chloride (PVC#3), low-density polyethylene (LDPE#4), polypropylene (PP#5), and polystyrene (PS#6) all must be separated for recycling.

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Just one fast-food meal can involve many different types of single-use plastic, including PET#1, HDPE#2, LDPE#4, PP#5, and PS#6 cups, lids, clamshells, trays, bags, and cutlery, which cannot be recycled together. This is one of several reasons why plastic fast-food service items cannot be legitimately claimed as recyclable in the U.S.

Another problem is that the reprocessing of plastic waste—when possible at all—is wasteful. Plastic is flammable, and the risk of fires at plastic-recycling facilities affects neighboring communities—many of which are located in low-income communities or communities of color.

[maxsolomon]

1. Fucking great.

I'm going to keep doing it - at least it all goes the same place rather than being scattered.

[madville]

11. Yeah, the landfill

Some estimates are up to 90% of plastic put in the recycling bin gets put in the landfill anyway.

[maxsolomon]

16. in 1 place in the landfill is what I'm hoping

so future generations know where to concentrate their plastic mining operations.

[gldstwmn]

47. Same here.

[Coventina]

2. Great way to discourage people from even trying!

Well done!!

[ck4829]

10. Yeah. This "don't even bother" is starting to rub me worse than GQPers saying "thoughts and prayers"

[MadameButterfly]

39. No one is saying not to bother

doing the right thing. The solution just might not be recycling plastics, but rather reducing their use. If we trick ourselves into thinking something works that doesn't, where does that get us?

Corporations are trying to convince us there is not a problem. They claim plastics are being recycled when they aren't. This is to avoid any regulations on packaging and plastic production in general. The lie of plastic recycling is not about the environment, it's about their bottom line. They are even against bottles bills and bans on single use plastic bags. If we fall for their scam, we'll vote for their false solutions and even fund them.

Plastic doesn't go away. If we don't do something, the planet will become one big landfill. But it's worse than that. It breaks down into microplastics and permeates our environment. We are all ingesting plastic in our food. The ramifications are not yet known.

[ck4829]

41. Not just here, it's well-entrenched

[BlackSkimmer]

45. Yes.

[Mossfern]

13. From trying what?

I've been aware of this for some time. The truth is that most of those plastics put into recycling bins just get dumped. People don't check to see which plastics they're tossing in, and it's not cost effective for recycling companies to sort them. I would rather see that products come in 'natural' containers like paper, cardboard and glass.

Yes, I know that it's more expensive for shipping things in glass, but the ultimate cost to our planet is worth a little more at the register.

I'm old enough to remember when there were no plastic containers at the super market. Somehow we managed to survive. There was a deposit on glass bottles that you could redeem if you brought them back to the store. For things like shampoo, one could find reusable plastic containers to fill from a glass container for safety in the shower. Plastic packaging is a MADE UP necessity.

I apologize, but this is one of my soap box issues - not directed personally to you.

[Amishman]

3. I'd be happy to pay extra for glass bottles for most goods

Even if the glass doesn't get recycled, it is less of an environmental hazard post use. Also lacks the concern about compounds leaching into the good.

[MichMan]

17. How much energy does glass manufacturing use compared to plastics?

That needs to be considered as well.

[rockfordfile]

27. Lets put it this way, most drinks in the past were in glass bottles.

[MichMan]

31. The cars my grandparents drove got 10 mpg and had no pollution controls or seat belts either.

Last edited Wed Jun 1, 2022, 03:11 PM - Edit history (3)

We know much more about being environmentally responsible now. At one time, glass bottles were washed and reused. I dont think that is still the case as I believe they are now smashed and broken.

I dont know if glass bottles still make sense or not, but you have to consider the environmental impact of production, distribution and recycling ♻️

[MadameButterfly]

40. Energy for manufacture can come from sustainable sources

though of course we aren't there yet. But once plastic is made, it doesn't go away.

We are only looking at the tip of the iceberg. Single use, superfluous packaging, items that a generation ago were packed in paper, or not packaged at all, etc. We have to re-invent fast food and take out. Eventually we'll have to address vinyl windows, car parts, machine parts, medical devices, on and on.

It seems to me we should only be using plastic for it's most important, irreplaceable uses like saving lives. A small enough quantity that if it piles up for a thousand years we still have a planet.

[in2herbs]

19. Maybe 2 years ago there was a news story in AZ about this guy who was turning glass

wine bottles into an asphalt-type road material. The story made it out to be a promising venture but haven't heard since.

I take my plastics and cardboard to the recycle center but do sometimes wonder why I bother. Several months ago, in response to a comment I made, the attendant at the recycle center said that the recycling facility wasn't recycling right now because there was no use for recycled plastics, etc.

The USA has always had the ingenuity, so tax the oil companies and use that money to support R&D that will create uses for recycled materials, making sure that the tax money used for R&D is not connected to an oil company or its profits.

[Amishman]

20. Ah, 'glassphalt'. Its been around for a while

The problem is that while tougher and lower maintenance, it has a lower coefficient of friction. This makes it easier to skid on, especially when wet. Might make sense for Arizona and other dry climates.

[NickB79]

38. Glass is heavy compared to plastic. Transporting heavy things burns fuel

It may seem inconsequential when you look at just a few items, but the billions of containers moved annually by trains, trucks, ships and air add up to a lot of extra fuel from the added weight.

[MadameButterfly]

44. If we put as much effort into

reducing packaging, selling products locally, sustainable energy systems, and other creative solutions as we are putting into inventing ways to recycle plastic, we might not need so much plastic.

[NickB79]

46. Reducing consumption is vital

But we live in an economy that REQUIRES constant growth to survive.

It's a real conundrum we've gotten ourselves into.

[Handler]

4. It doesn't work well now...

But if it done correctly it can have a great positive effect. Surrendering will never work.

[MadameButterfly]

42. Surrendering is not an option

but doggedly pursuing plastic recycling might not be scientifically feasible. We do need to look at what worked before we had plastic.

[Blues Heron]

5. Thousands of kinds of plastic! Then they list six

And it’s flammable omg! who knew.

Best practice is to use glass or metal,containers anyway.

[Trailrider1951]

6. That's why I buy my soda in aluminum cans instead of plastic bottles

I also prefer glass jars to plastic and recycle them as well. Maple syrup, jelly and jam come in plastic squeeze bottles, but I prefer the glass containers. Sugar and flour come in paper bags that can be recycled, and I take my own cloth bags to the grocery store when I shop. About 85 to 90% of all that leaves my house as "rubbish" goes into the recycle bin. The rest, about 1 kitchen-sized bag per week, is unfortunately not recyclable at this time, and goes to the landfill. It makes a difference in what I choose to buy.

[MichMan]

18. Does manufacturing aluminum and glass use more energy than plastics?

That needs to be a consideration.

[Trailrider1951]

29. I don't know that for sure, but I really don't want to add to the plastic glut

that's currently in the environment. I do know that it takes more time and energy to refine aluminum from the bauxite raw material than it does to melt down those nearly pure cans and form them into new products. I suspect the same is true of glass, as it is made from sand deposits.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bauxite

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass

[IbogaProject]

7. Oil based plastic is poison

We need plastics that will biodegrade is less than a human lifespan.

[Hugin]

8. Plastic powered mobility scooters...

QED.

[Hugin]

9. or some could convince the empathy impaired eating plastic prevents...

catching the COVID hoax and will own-the-libtards.

[madville]

12. It also takes a lot of energy to reduce plastic

So plastic recycling could also be contributing to global warming, depending on the power source.

[ProfessorGAC]

25. Much Lower Than Glass, Though

Many polymer reactions are exothermic, once above the activation energy.
I'm all for recycling as much as possible, but the energy consumption per unit mass of plastics is small compared to glass & aluminum.
Polyethylene flows at around 120C. Aluminum at around 630C, and glass can be blown, spun, or molded at around 1,400C.
The problem with plastics is that the recycled plastic has no reaction sites remaining. It can't be crosslinked to other chains.
So, tensile strength is severely compromised if the recycle content goes above a few percent.
There are bench scale efforts to change that, but i estimate they're 2-5 years away from first industrial scale efforts.

[Diamond_Dog]

14. And just think of all the one-use plastics

Used by hospitals to treat Covid patients that had to be thrown away.

[JudyM]

22. And all the single-use takeout containers.

We’re not thinking enough about this.

[demigoddess]

15. I wish we would go back to glass.

[Novara]

21. I just bought a Sodastream to make my own carbonated drinks

I was buying flavored sparkling water in 2-liter bottles and recycling those bottles, but the manufacturer is stopping production. So, instead of buying 6-packs or 12-packs with individual bottles or cans, I bought a Sodastream and make my own in their reusable plastic bottles. The diet cola is as good as the name brands, and they have a lot of other flavors such as ginger ale as well. I am glad to drastically reduce the amount of plastic bottles in my recycle bin.

Last year I bought a bunch of glass storage containers so I don't have to use plastic (or reheat food in plastic).

These are small steps, but a lot of small steps build.

[Hortensis]

23. :) If I'd only lived the last 5 years, I'd know better than to say "never"

about anything. As it is, what could "never" happen has happened many, many, many times over my last 70.

"Anti-Gravity Tech? NASA, DARPA, and MIT Debate the Future"

[ProfessorGAC]

24. For Now

There are a half dozen polymer chemistry teams working on metathetic reactions that allow the introduction of new double bond functions, effectively making tiny strands of recycled plastic into a monomer.
I know 2 members of one research team & 2 others working at two other companies.
They all believe that this could lead to 60-70% recycle rates, as opposed to 8-9%.
It's not near scale up at this point, but there is optimism on all 3 fronts.
From my experience, success at the bench scale is a good sign that scale up is a matter pf managing the physics, and that the optimism is probably well founded.

[jeffreyi]

26. I hope this happens soon.

[ProfessorGAC]

32. Probably Not

My 42 years of experience in R&D tells me that success on the bench means 2-5 years of scale up & capital projects to implement at industrial scale.
Maybe up to 8 years, but i consider that unlikely.
There's probably a year of structural integrity testing of high % recycle product.
The folks i know likely already has some idea of tensile strength, elasticity & coefficient of restitution. But, time studies & multiple recycles are not likely even started.
And, cost models are probably sketchy at this point.
Fingers crossed.

[NNadir]

28. This matter is hardly closed. The approach is unworkable as it...

...exists, but as a carbon source subject to pyrolysis, steam, supercritical water or dry reforming municipal waste may prove amenable to becoming a tool for closed closed carbon cycling.

Municipal waste is a potential source of syngas.

These procedures are available in cases where clean energy is available, of which there is only one kind, nuclear energy.

The problem up to now has been a function of the diversity of polymers, which will only increase. Thus we need "one size fits all" approaches.

[SoonerPride]

30. SADLY THIS IS TRUE.

The only recycling that works is aluminum recycling because there is money in it.


All other recycling is virtue signalling.


I do it.



But I fully acknowledge that it is a waste of time.



https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/22pmq4/penn_teller_find_that_recycling_does_more_harm/



Stream the episode here:

https://www.sho.com/penn-and-teller-bullshit/season/2/episode/5/recycling

[Martin68]

34. The fact that most recycling is not profitable, is beside the point. If, as a society, we are

willing to pay the price, it can be subsidized in various ways. Such as deposits. Mass transportation isn't profitable in many cases, but it is well worth the cost. That said, the best solution is to prohibit the manufacture of single-use plastics that can't be recycled.

[Martin68]

33. Plastic #1 and #2 can be recycled, and it is worth it. None the other types are regularly recycled.

[a kennedy]

43. That's it?? Just those 2???? I'm just sick.......

[H2O Man]

35. There's a future in plastics.

[IcyPeas]

36. he wasn't wrong

[H2O Man]

37. Right.