"I'm not getting in that car"

[kentuck]

The plan was in effect.

The only thing left to do was to get Mike Pence out of the Capitol and out of the area.

Evidently, someone was communicating with the Secret Service people that were with Pence.

It was reported that they attempted to get him into the car three times. On the third time, they demanded he get in. He refused. "I'm not getting in that car" he said, as reported by Rep. Jamie Raskin.

The Pence team believed there would be a "security issue" on the 6th. Pence's Chief of Staff went so far as to discuss it with the Secret Service, as I recall?

If Pence was not going to play on their team, then they would physically remove him from the Capitol and replace him with the Senate pro tempore, who happened to be Senator Charles Grassley at that time. Had Grassley agreed to go along with their plot to overturn the election if Pence was removed? That is not known at this time.

One might wonder if Peter Navarro is just someone that was sacrificed in hopes it would stop or slow down the investigation?

[Tetrachloride]

1. According to your post, "the only thing" remaining was the removal of VP Pence.

Last edited Sat Jun 4, 2022, 03:29 AM - Edit history (5)

As a devil’s advocate of sorts :

1. In your mind, was VP assassination acceptable to Trump , Eastman, Roger Stone cabal ?

2. Do you believe in fact that removal was the one and only leading human obstacle prior to any nefarious vote counting?

3. You used the word “demanded.” Is this the correct connotation?

4. Is there a timeline of Senator Grassley on Jan 5-6 , 2020 ? Who was with Grassley?

5. Who would be the backup if not Grassley and Pence ?

6. Pence timeline? How did it come to be that VP Pence was asked (demanded ?) to get in the car ?

A. Was he rushed to the area ? Or was it more sedate (a fair amount of self control on Team Pence’s part )?

B. Who was doing the most demanding of getting towards the car from the Senate chamber?

C. When and where was the first Pence refusal and to who ?

7. The electoral votes paper timeline. All of it.

[Escurumbele]

5. I will respond to many of your questions, as many as I can.

1. This is conjecture based on trump's character and desperation of course, but the answer is "YES", an assassination would have been OK with trump.
2. Yes. The way I see it, they had plans A and B for the removal of Pence and the congress. From what we have seen, Grassley was supposed to replace Pence, and if that failed, the removal of congress members would be enough to stop the count.
3. According to what Chris Hayes informed last night, yes the word demanded came after the first two attempts to get Pence in the car failed. I am hoping those secret security service people have been investigated, have been fired from their jobs and are facing some legal issues.
4. I don't know that anyone can answer this question yet, it was only this week that the information was made public, I don't know the details.
5. Irrelevant at this time, not sure what that brings to the discussion.
6. As I said before, he was taken to the undisclosed "no one knows according to Raskin" location where he was shown the limo, it was suggested to him to get in the limo, he refused. It is to note that the security people who were always with Pence would not be in the limo, and if I recall correctly he told them "I am not getting in that limo, you are guys are staying here."
My guess is that at that point there must have been two thoughts in Pence's mind, one of survival, I do think he felt his life was in danger, the fact that he knows trump well and how crazy trump is must have run the thought of maybe being his last day on earth if he got in the limo, and his sense of duty, we have to give him that.
6.A He was rushed to the area, that is my understanding. Why does it have any relevance? The important thing is that they took him there.
6.B I don't know the name of the security agent, but Chris Hayes described him as a trump loyalist. You are going to have to find that out.
6.C you are going to have to find out that information yourself.
7. Not sure what you are getting at...

And by the way, the mob was supposed to serve the purpose of scaring Pence and everyone else to leave the Capitol to disrupt the proceedings of counting the votes. It is not by coincidence that there were already buses to remove the congress members from the capitol, and a limo for Pence, they had planned for that. What they didn't plan for was that the mob became more violent than expected. Why do you think trump waited so long to stop the mob? They had a job to do, but once trump was convinced that it would not work, he told them to go.

I hope this satisfies many of your questions, and for those that have not been answered? well, you have some homework to do.

[Tetrachloride]

6. Ty. My initial goal is to cover the key possibilities and motivations.

Find the possibilities and good questions first.

[kentuck]

10. Chris Hayes also reported that the Secret Service was communicating with Keith Kellogg...

...in the White House. He made the comment that he knew them....Pence might end up in Alaska, paraphrasing.

It sounds like the Secret Service were taking orders from someone above Pence?

[kentuck]

13. Just my opinion...

But I believe many of the decisions were being made spontaneously after they over-whelmed the Capitol Police. I believe Trump was orchestrating the entire event, with the Secret Service and Pence, thru his adviser, Keith Kellogg.

[kentuck]

12. I don't know if they would have assassinated Pence?

All they needed to do was to remove him from the Capitol and put a more malleable person in his place. (Grassley's comments made it seem that he was that person)

[H2O Man]

14. Of course not.

There was no plan to kill Pence. Your post makes clear that the effort was simply to remove him from the scene. Indeed, that is the Secret Service's job in a situation like this. Would the Trump forces hope to have Grassley take his role if the Senate returned that evening/night? Very likely, but their plan had been to have Pence step aside earlier, before the count, and to be replaced at the start.

Those who speak about killing Pence fall into one of two groups: those with over-active imaginations, and those who seek to discredit real concerns by inserting shit.

[kentuck]

15. If Pence had gotten into the car...?

The coup may have worked. Buses were ready to move all the Congressmen away from Capitol.

[H2O Man]

16. Right.

They would have moved Pence out of DC. That is their job, when a mob of thugs chanting "Kill Mike Pence" has broken into the building he is in. And that definitely could have allowed the coup attempt to work. No doubt. But the Secret Service was not engaged in a plan to kill Pence -- no doubt about that, either. (And I know that was not what you were saying. But others go there, for no good reason.)

[kentuck]

18. In this matter, I think it might be best to stick to the principle of "Occam's Razor"?

The simplest explanation is probably the most accurate.

[BadgerMom]

4. My thought exactly.

Why would anyone doubt it? He wanted Trump’s endorsement. He got it, by the way. He may be old. It doesn’t make him innocent automatically. His 1/5 tweet about filling in for Pence on 1/6 drips with guilt to my mind.

[kentuck]

9. I don't think it was a coincidence that Grassley mentioned Pence not being there.

Someone had talked with Grassley, in my opinion. Did he agree to do what Pence would not do? Probably, but we do not know for sure. ...yet.

[gordianot]

7. Until there are actual facts on these real conspiracies, theories will abound.

It appears to me the facts to what should be obvious may be so strange almost no one believes it. Who wants to bet the agents in that car have talked?

[kentuck]

11. One would think that the Committee has talked with the SS agents?

It all depended on getting Pence removed from the area. He was not cooperating. Had someone agreed to do what he would not do? We do not know that yet.

[Baitball Blogger]

8. Were the secret service in on the plan?

Or was their habit of using extreme precaution an expectation that would used in favor of the insurrectionist?

[kentuck]

17. My guess is that some of the Secret Service were in on the plan.

They were willing to follow orders, if they did not know all the details.

[H2O Man]

20. At least one

in Pence's detail knew. I'm basing this on a report on MSNBC.

[sarcasmo]

19. Grassley said Pence would not be in charge then quickly walked that back.

Pence staying out of that car helped save Democracy.
Coup plans were to keep Pence from certifying the election. A few days of riots then call for Martial Law.

[crickets]

21. K&R for the post and the discussion.

[Tetrachloride]

22. Wait. how did busses come to be ready?

[panader0]

23. The Secret Service people involved should be interviewed under oath.

[BWdem4life]

24. So, they needed him in the car, but he had to get into the car willingly?

Why would that be? They couldn't have anyone see them forcefully put him into the car in case the coup didn't succeed?

[kentuck]

25. The head of Pence's Secret Service detail...

...was the same agent that Mark Short had a discussion with the day before. He was warned that there could be security issues involving the VP.

However, it must have been discussed above that level? Keith Kellogg, Trump's adviser, called the Secret Service and told them not to do it. He said they would take him to Alaska if possible to get him out of the loop. So, it does appear the Secret Service was being pressured to move Pence away from the Capitol.

I cannot see the situation where they would physically force him into the car, unless their plan was to do bodily harm, which I do not think was the case?