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babylonsister

(171,054 posts)
Sat Jun 4, 2022, 09:00 AM Jun 2022

America Needs to See the Reality of Assault Rifle Murders

http://www.smirkingchimp.com/thread/mitchell-zimmerman/101823/america-needs-to-see-the-reality-of-assault-rifle-murders

America Needs to See the Reality of Assault Rifle Murders
by Mitchell Zimmerman | June 3, 2022 - 5:46am
— from OtherWords

snip//

The families of the Uvalde victims will make their own painful decisions regarding the remains of their children. They owe us nothing — it is we who owe them our shamed apologies for failing to protect their children from the now well-known danger of mass murder.

No one can demand the right to use photographs of the victims.

But children aren’t the only ones whose bodies have been torn apart and rendered unrecognizable by modern assault weapons. Photographs from both wartime and the home front can doubtless be found to illustrate the costs of so-called “gun rights.”

These disturbing images could ignite the public conscience. They could also be put before gun buyers themselves.

A number of states force women exercising their constitutional right to abortion to look at fetal sonograms before ending their pregnancy. What if states required anyone who wants to buy an assault rifle, or other semi-automatic weapon, to first see photos or films that show what such weapons do to human bodies?

Some buyers would no doubt harden their hearts and persuade themselves they must have a weapon of war to defend their homes from an attack by imaginary hordes or other fictitious threats — or to overthrow a government so tyrannical as to consider regulating firearms.

But perhaps some would reconsider whether they really need this kind of weapon to hunt or engage in target shooting.

There is no Second Amendment right to protection from reality.
54 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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America Needs to See the Reality of Assault Rifle Murders (Original Post) babylonsister Jun 2022 OP
Agree. We are shown diseased lungs, livers, hearts and all sort of other bodily ills. Same thing. CurtEastPoint Jun 2022 #1
I am not looking...I can imagine perfectly well what it does...what next public executions? Demsrule86 Jun 2022 #2
I think the difference is... LiberatedUSA Jun 2022 #6
You do know, I'm sure, that there are people who wnylib Jun 2022 #18
Maybe, but I bet many like me just wouldn't look. I grew up near Sandy Hook in Ridgefield Demsrule86 Jun 2022 #38
...K&R... spanone Jun 2022 #3
Agree! Snarkoleptic Jun 2022 #4
Indeed. I saw the crash gore learning to drive. CurtEastPoint Jun 2022 #5
When I was in service in the early sixties we were cut loose at noon on saturdays. justhanginon Jun 2022 #17
yes... myohmy2 Jun 2022 #7
⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧⇧ spanone Jun 2022 #11
Recommended. H2O Man Jun 2022 #8
Even tho this sounds barbaric... RazBerryBeret Jun 2022 #9
This help? KS Toronado Jun 2022 #10
The truth is often painful Handler Jun 2022 #12
I agree Rebl2 Jun 2022 #15
I totally agree llashram Jun 2022 #13
Show photos of the blood-soaked classrooms, just after the bodies are removed. Paladin Jun 2022 #14
That's a far better idea than turning us wnylib Jun 2022 #30
Agreed. Snackshack Jun 2022 #16
America needs to see the reality of the assault Marthe48 Jun 2022 #19
Military weapons owners 5th Avenue Hogan Jun 2022 #20
True, buy they get it online anyway. We need lawmakers to see it and vote housecat Jun 2022 #23
+1000 wnylib Jun 2022 #34
Most people aren't MTG or people who would love them, so let's stick with the majority BannonsLiver Jun 2022 #35
+1000 wnylib Jun 2022 #40
Agreed, without seeing what slaughtered children look like, gun death becomes a sanitized news item. housecat Jun 2022 #21
Totally agree TheDemsshouldhireme Jun 2022 #22
"A picture IS worth a thousand words." housecat Jun 2022 #24
I've started calling them murder weapons and massacre machines. calimary Jun 2022 #25
Terrorism Claire Oh Nette Jun 2022 #26
Bust the myth of ausault weapons being good for hunting. pandr32 Jun 2022 #27
i'd at least like to see pics mopinko Jun 2022 #43
Agreed pandr32 Jun 2022 #45
Easy enough: EX500rider Jun 2022 #49
i mean on my teevee. mopinko Jun 2022 #50
Sure, tune in to any hunting channel EX500rider Jun 2022 #51
dont be obtuse. mopinko Jun 2022 #52
I am not, the answer is there is no difference EX500rider Jun 2022 #53
Apparently they are used with some frequency EX500rider Jun 2022 #46
I really can't imagine. pandr32 Jun 2022 #47
Not sure why they wouldn't be used other then the common calibers are a little weak EX500rider Jun 2022 #48
It is not for everyone Jarqui Jun 2022 #28
If people want to know, they can easily find out. If they don't, they wont allow it to be crammed Ferrets are Cool Jun 2022 #29
Here's some more reality. Mr.Bill Jun 2022 #31
I'm not sure mgardener Jun 2022 #32
Read the Room usonian Jun 2022 #33
So your idea is just more of the same? BannonsLiver Jun 2022 #36
That's a good point. usonian Jun 2022 #37
there is no shared 'room' in politics any more. mopinko Jun 2022 #44
Yes, it should be broadcast unedited on national TV networks. roamer65 Jun 2022 #39
America is ALREADY on board dickthegrouch Jun 2022 #41
This, for them Hekate Jun 2022 #42
Blue states could lead the way by making gun buyers look at those pictures before buying a gun Kaleva Jun 2022 #54

Demsrule86

(68,539 posts)
2. I am not looking...I can imagine perfectly well what it does...what next public executions?
Sat Jun 4, 2022, 09:07 AM
Jun 2022

I don't want to go down that road.

 

LiberatedUSA

(1,666 posts)
6. I think the difference is...
Sat Jun 4, 2022, 09:43 AM
Jun 2022

…showing public executions is done out of a twisted sense of enjoyment mixed with spreading fear. Showing the results of kids being murdered would be to help promote change for the benefit of society.

wnylib

(21,423 posts)
18. You do know, I'm sure, that there are people who
Sat Jun 4, 2022, 11:14 AM
Jun 2022

like seeing carnage and would be inspired to produce their own. They get a thrill out of the power to maim and obliterate others.


Demsrule86

(68,539 posts)
38. Maybe, but I bet many like me just wouldn't look. I grew up near Sandy Hook in Ridgefield
Sat Jun 4, 2022, 04:09 PM
Jun 2022

Connecticut...I went to High School there when Dad got out of the military. A friend of mine's brother is a cop and he told me that the kids in Sandy Hook were just in his words gone, obliterated.

Snarkoleptic

(5,997 posts)
4. Agree!
Sat Jun 4, 2022, 09:33 AM
Jun 2022

These mass murders are an abstraction and this will bring us back to the awful costs of gun violence.
As a kid, I went to the Indiana State Fair and the State Police had an area w/ crash scene photos, it was jarring to see.
We need a wake up call.

justhanginon

(3,289 posts)
17. When I was in service in the early sixties we were cut loose at noon on saturdays.
Sat Jun 4, 2022, 10:47 AM
Jun 2022

Preceding that we HAD to watch films of gory highway accidents in glorious color, trying to cut down on speeding and wrecks on the one and a half day weekend. Pretty scary stuff.

myohmy2

(3,155 posts)
7. yes...
Sat Jun 4, 2022, 10:06 AM
Jun 2022

...with parents and relatives permission, let's see what the mangled, shredded, exploded, unrecognizable little bodies look like from high-powered AR-15 rounds...

...let's see what McConnell and the Republicans want to tolerate and foist on the American people...let's see what gun manufacturing profits provide when military grade weapons are sold to the general public...

...if a people's Constitution guarantees such carnage, then the people need a new Constitution...

...if a people's government tolerates such carnage, then the people need a new government...

...if people want to go to war to continue such carnage, so be it...wars have been fought for far less significant reasons...

...we are being slaughtered and we have a right not to be slaughtered...

...the first order of government is to protect...

...ask the parents of gun-slaughtered little children if they or their loved-ones feel protected...

...do you feel protected?...

RazBerryBeret

(3,075 posts)
9. Even tho this sounds barbaric...
Sat Jun 4, 2022, 10:16 AM
Jun 2022

I agree with this if the parents give permission. As a parent of 2 college aged sons, I am relatively sure if this happened to my kids, I would be the one sharing photos. I would send the images to McConnell and other GOPers. I would make sure they got the blame they deserve. I would buy ad space in their states and make sure their constituents knew what they have supported. Maybe even billboards. The Ammo-Sexuals need to feel the shame, if they are capable, if they aren’t their families need to feel it.

Handler

(336 posts)
12. The truth is often painful
Sat Jun 4, 2022, 10:26 AM
Jun 2022

These images should be seen by the public. Unless you are a combat vet or a first responder most people have no idea what is being talked about. The carnage is unbelievable.
It is similar to hearing a story about sexual assault, the story will read, the child was inappropriately touched by some man. That is not what happened, the child was raped. In my opinion the truth should be told and the images made public. I understand this concept is difficult but need to know the truth of things.

Rebl2

(13,485 posts)
15. I agree
Sat Jun 4, 2022, 10:35 AM
Jun 2022

Until people see pictures, they won’t understand the damage these weapons do to the body.

llashram

(6,265 posts)
13. I totally agree
Sat Jun 4, 2022, 10:32 AM
Jun 2022

50 years plus and I still have photos in my mind of the consequences of that conflict upon human beings. More people do need to see the revealing tragedy of weapons of war upon innocent victims. The children especially. I think a lot of people will change their minds about adding more weapons to the 300million plus weapons already in private hands in this country...maybe? Republikkkans? Not much chance. But with photos, maybe just maybe decent people can find leverage against the civilian warmongers in our midst.

Paladin

(28,246 posts)
14. Show photos of the blood-soaked classrooms, just after the bodies are removed.
Sat Jun 4, 2022, 10:33 AM
Jun 2022

I saw this suggested on a thread here at DU recently. I think it's a first-rate idea.

wnylib

(21,423 posts)
30. That's a far better idea than turning us
Sat Jun 4, 2022, 11:50 AM
Jun 2022

into a nation of ghouls, viewing the mangled bodies of victims.

This idea of publishing photos of dead and mangled victims seems like it would be the solution to gun problems by forcing the reality of the scene onto the public.

But it is just one option, out of many possible ones, to use in getting gun control laws passed.

Yes, it would shock and horrify most people. And then the gun addicts and their political leaders would push back with (mock) outrage at the indecency of publishing the pics. Some would claim that the photos were staged.

Very soon, the attention would be on whether the photos should have been published. The victims themselves will have been forgotten in the back and forth accusations over the photos. People tend to turn away from and deny what they cannot face and handle.

Then there are the sickos among us who enjoy looking at gory carnage and would like to produce their own. They get a thrill out of the power to do horrific things to others. How inspirational for them.

Abortion requirements to look at sonograms do not stop women from having abortions, do they? I remember when anti choice groups harassed patients with gory pictures of aborted fetuses. Some even harassed people on the streets with these pictures, including school children on their way home. How many of us pro choice people were influenced by those actions to change our minds about abortion choice?

I understand the impulse to hit people with reality pictures. But think it through. Play it out in your mind with the knowledge that we have of the gun addict culture and their political leaders and how they will twist it into shaming the left for releasing photos. Consider the human nature trait of denying or tuning out things too horrible for them to face. Picture the people who have survived gun attacks and war settings having PTSD attacks over the photos. Don't fool yourself into thinking that warnings will prevent them and prevent children from seeing the pics.

I understand the impulse to do something shocking to make people face reality. But there are too many negatives for me to agree that this should be done.


Marthe48

(16,932 posts)
19. America needs to see the reality of the assault
Sat Jun 4, 2022, 11:18 AM
Jun 2022

period.

The people shaping America into the radical conservative, gun-loving, minority hating, misogynistic perverted opposite of the Founding Father's vision have to be stopped.

My daughter described a moment of realization she experienced in VA over Memorial Weekend, as they completed their hike. She said people of all races and backgrounds were sitting at outside tables having breakfast, in a peaceful, quiet surrounding, just having a pleasant weekend outdoors with their families, nothing too expensive, just a nice time. I teared up as she spoke. Just look at what the assholes with guns are destroying.

I'm not disclosing the location in case some murderer is looking for a new place to ruin with mass killing.

20. Military weapons owners
Sat Jun 4, 2022, 11:21 AM
Jun 2022

like, even LOVE the damage that their weapons inflict. See MTG’s video of her blowing up a car! I would worry that graphic images of the carnage might do more to encourage the crazies even more.

wnylib

(21,423 posts)
34. +1000
Sat Jun 4, 2022, 12:08 PM
Jun 2022

There are, unfortunately, many people who get an inspirational thrill out of seeing carnage. They love the idea of having that kind of power over others. Imagine the sickos competing to outdo each other in producing the goriest crime scene.

We thought it was terrible that the White supremacist, Payton Gendron, live streamed his massacre of Black shoppers in a Buffalo supermarket. Why imitate him?

wnylib

(21,423 posts)
40. +1000
Sat Jun 4, 2022, 04:46 PM
Jun 2022

Unintended consequences.

There are many people, unfortunately, who would consider the publication of the photos as glorification of carnage and would like to try to outdo the photos. A competition to produce the worst looming results.

REMEMBER THIS: Payton Gendron, the White supremacist shooter at Buffalo live streamed his shootings. Do we want to imitate him?





housecat

(3,121 posts)
21. Agreed, without seeing what slaughtered children look like, gun death becomes a sanitized news item.
Sat Jun 4, 2022, 11:23 AM
Jun 2022

Let's see the republicans vote "nay" to gun control after seeing the evil they are promoting for money.

22. Totally agree
Sat Jun 4, 2022, 11:24 AM
Jun 2022

Would the holocaust be viewed the same without the photographic evidence. I remember reading a story about how FDR released graphic film of D-Day for newsreels to show the American people the sacrifices being made by our soldiers. Think of Vietnam and the picture of that naked girl running. The reporters in country and pictures and film of wounded soldiers. The imagine of that South Vietnamese officer shooting that guy on the street. The pictures helped turn the country against the war. The military even changed rules after Vietnam and how reporters are embedded and what they can and cant show. Even rules against taking pictures without special approval of coffins coming back. We like our war cleaned and sanitized now.

This debate on assault weapons would change on a dime in my humble opinion, with the release of a few images. You could obscure faces if you want, but an image of a Sandy Hook classroom, Uvalde classroom, Las Vegas, whatever, but I really think it would be really hard for defenders of these weapons, large capacity magazines to look their friends in the eye and say you support weapons that do this?

Claire Oh Nette

(2,636 posts)
26. Terrorism
Sat Jun 4, 2022, 11:41 AM
Jun 2022

We call terrorism gun violence.

We don't call gun violence murder.

We live in a sea of euphemism excusing bad behavior by those who wish to control us with the very violence they perpetrate.

pandr32

(11,574 posts)
27. Bust the myth of ausault weapons being good for hunting.
Sat Jun 4, 2022, 11:42 AM
Jun 2022

It is a regular talking point and it may give the idea that an AR-15 is just a more cool, modern firearm to take the place of traditional ones.
Pictures would do that.

mopinko

(70,074 posts)
43. i'd at least like to see pics
Sun Jun 5, 2022, 09:03 AM
Jun 2022

of a feral pig shot up w an ar. and another shot by a marksman w real hunting rifle.
and see which on is still fit to eat.

i mean, that's what they say they do.

EX500rider

(10,835 posts)
51. Sure, tune in to any hunting channel
Sun Jun 5, 2022, 02:01 PM
Jun 2022

What exactly is different hunting small game with a semi-auto black rifle with a scope Vs a wood stock bolt action?

EX500rider

(10,835 posts)
53. I am not, the answer is there is no difference
Sun Jun 5, 2022, 02:25 PM
Jun 2022

...other then the most common AR-15 round is a little underpowered for larger game. But you can get them in bigger caliber's.

EX500rider

(10,835 posts)
46. Apparently they are used with some frequency
Sun Jun 5, 2022, 12:43 PM
Jun 2022
If you do choose to use an AR-15 on your next deer hunt, you won’t be alone. According to a 2014 survey of hunters by the National Shooting Sports Foundation, 27% reported having used an AR-15 to hunt, and 58% of those used one in the last year. Given the continuing rise in sales of AR-type rifles, the percentage today is likely much higher.

https://www.themeateater.com/hunt/firearm-hunting/should-your-next-deer-rifle-be-an-ar-15

EX500rider

(10,835 posts)
48. Not sure why they wouldn't be used other then the common calibers are a little weak
Sun Jun 5, 2022, 01:51 PM
Jun 2022

Firing single shots with a scope what would be the difference?

Jarqui

(10,122 posts)
28. It is not for everyone
Sat Jun 4, 2022, 11:47 AM
Jun 2022

Many decades ago, 1970s, I saw a Soldier of Fortune magazine. Might have been a 1960s publication - wasn't new.
I'd never seen one before.
There are many ads related to guns in the magazine.

One of the ads was for ammunition. I think it was for 30-06 bullets. I do not recall the manufacturer.
It showed two views of two dead black men.
A picture of their face had a bullet hole entering their forehead.
The rear shot of their heads had a 6" diameter cone exit wound - the back of their heads blown out/off.
The ad bragged about the damage their bullets could do to entice people to buy them.

Stopped reading. Magazine fell to the floor. I couldn't pick it up.
I felt sick to my stomach. My head was spinning.
Had to go outside and get out of there.
I remember the experience like yesterday.

The thought of parents having to identify or say goodbye to their precious child - one of the most beautiful things in their lives - who have been mutilated like that distresses me with every school shooting.

I'm haunted forever by that ad.
But if something like it would stop these parents from having to experience identifying their mutilated child, it seems the lessor of two evils.

Ferrets are Cool

(21,105 posts)
29. If people want to know, they can easily find out. If they don't, they wont allow it to be crammed
Sat Jun 4, 2022, 11:49 AM
Jun 2022

into their brains.
This is a great article about what these guns do to a body.

"But in the scan that was before her that day, ‘the organ looked like an overripe melon smashed by a sledgehammer, with extensive bleeding,’ Sher writes. ‘How could a gunshot wound have caused this much damage?’

When one of the trauma surgeons went to open up a young victim in the operating room, there was 'nothing left to repair' because a bullet from Cruz's AR-15 had ripped an internal organ to shreds. The patient could not be saved.

For comparison, Sher says that when a gunman opened fired at the Fort Lauderdale airport a year ago, shooting 11 people from a 9mm semiautomatic handgun firing low-velocity bullets, the six victims who had been transported to her hospital that day survived."

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5424197/Radiologist-reveals-effects-AR-15-bullets-human-body.html

Mr.Bill

(24,274 posts)
31. Here's some more reality.
Sat Jun 4, 2022, 11:57 AM
Jun 2022

Some of these gunners are so fucked up they will actually be turned on by the pictures and want to go out and don it themselves.

mgardener

(1,815 posts)
32. I'm not sure
Sat Jun 4, 2022, 12:01 PM
Jun 2022

When I was 10, my dad was killed in a plane crash.
The crash site was on the front page of our newspaper.
I can still find the picture on line today, after 55 years.
It gave me nightmares.

I'm not sure if showing pictures is the best way.
Here is a description.
It is bad enough.

usonian

(9,747 posts)
33. Read the Room
Sat Jun 4, 2022, 12:05 PM
Jun 2022

Violence and gore (simulated and sometimes real) are rampant in media, have been LITERALLY forever, so people generally tune it out.

And the nutcases get their thrills from seeing it.

As I've posted before, look for the "average person" to be revulsed by some gore.

Don't look to legislators, nor think that people can influence legislators. Pols are completely in the grasp of the gun industry and the Republicult bosses.

But people vote and the most likely improvement is in November.

Just my two cents worth.
GOTV like your life and hundreds and thousands of others depended on it.
https://democraticunderground.com/100216380145

Campaign financing reform? It ALMOST happened.
AWB happened and ended.

FLUSH THE ASSHOLES.

usonian

(9,747 posts)
37. That's a good point.
Sat Jun 4, 2022, 02:14 PM
Jun 2022

I think of all this as 1939 Germany.
Stop it now.

I just ran out of ideas how to, this morning.
Yes, I'd like something on the order of the Civil Rights and Vietnam War protests.
Who's the leader? Right now, I see only courageous Beto O'Rourke standing up.

If you think that something more powerful and effective than billions in lobbying and cult-like hypnosis can work,
SIGN ME UP.

These are the times when we need dynamic young leaders.

I am thinking of an ad campaign (more general than gun control) that we can PAC.
I am the last to be in the "it's over with" camp.


mopinko

(70,074 posts)
44. there is no shared 'room' in politics any more.
Sun Jun 5, 2022, 09:07 AM
Jun 2022

both sides love in their own worlds. the point is not to show the assholes the pics, it's the show the rest of the world what this is rly about.
there are about 30% out there who have well and truly lost their minds. it's time for them to be ostracized. this is an extremely powerful motivator.

roamer65

(36,745 posts)
39. Yes, it should be broadcast unedited on national TV networks.
Sat Jun 4, 2022, 04:11 PM
Jun 2022

I also believe executions should be televised as well.

No sugar coating or hiding. Americans need a hard dose of true reality.

dickthegrouch

(3,172 posts)
41. America is ALREADY on board
Sat Jun 4, 2022, 06:47 PM
Jun 2022
https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=16751356

I do NOT need to see those images, I'm still traumatized from the murder of that Viet Cong on TV.

CONGRESS needs to see those images.
Gun Manufacturer workers need to see those images before they are allowed to be employed.
Purchasers need to see those images.

Kaleva

(36,294 posts)
54. Blue states could lead the way by making gun buyers look at those pictures before buying a gun
Sun Jun 5, 2022, 02:35 PM
Jun 2022

My guess is that there won't be much effort in the more progressive states to do this.

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