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Grasswire2

(13,568 posts)
4. to be totally clear and transparent here...
Sat Jun 4, 2022, 07:45 PM
Jun 2022

...I believe you have a familial interest to DoJ. Best to be open about that.

brooklynite

(94,502 posts)
6. Not currently...
Sat Jun 4, 2022, 07:53 PM
Jun 2022

My wife was a DOJ prosecutor in a earlier part of her career. Why would that need revealing?

Response to brooklynite (Reply #1)

bucolic_frolic

(43,128 posts)
2. I think they feel they got enough of what they need from Meadows and Scavino
Sat Jun 4, 2022, 07:30 PM
Jun 2022

With Navarro they've defended their subpoena in court. Not put more time and headlines into those two.

agingdem

(7,845 posts)
9. Thank you!...
Sat Jun 4, 2022, 08:25 PM
Jun 2022

Last edited Sat Jun 4, 2022, 09:09 PM - Edit history (1)

Meadows/Scavino in the J6 committee hot seat claiming the 5th over and over again is a waste of time as is the DOJ indicting Meadows when he's already turned over a myriad of damning documents (the incinerated documents are for Garland to prosecute), unlike Navarro, forever tripping over his mouth, his ego, and his persecution complex, threatening Biden, Pelosi, the J6 committee, Fauci in a defiant effort to fend off a humiliating sit-down with the J6 committee..hell, the asshole is all over MSM spilling his Green Bay Sweep treasonous guts...

Garland is sending a not no subtle message to Eastman..talk to us, leave your 5th amendment/executive privilege bullshit at the door or the DOJ indicts...Garland will not allow Meadows, Eastman or any other coup co-conspirators to walk..if they want a
deal they're going to have to talk, tie Trump, the puppet master, to the coup from it's inception...

we don't know what Garland knows..we don't know what evidence has been presented to the various federal grand juries...so we wait...

Grasswire2

(13,568 posts)
3. I have asked why inherent contempt is not used.
Sat Jun 4, 2022, 07:44 PM
Jun 2022

It is crazy that a co-equal branch of government (legislative) is at the mercy of un-elected officials of the Executive Branch in order to achieve justice in the matter of a violent coup attempt.

Congress has its own power to compel testimony. I have asked why it isn't used. I get two answers.

1. There's no jail in the Capitol.
2. There are no services such as provision of food that would care for the needs of any prisoners.

That seems weak.

I recall that Susan McDougall was imprisoned for thirteen months in federal custody for refusing to answer three questions about Bill Clinton in a civil matter. Shackled to the cell toilet. Held in solitary. Subjected to the disgusting bus transfer facility to facility.

It is time for the people to speak and demand action to protect the J6 committee from the un-elected cabal of Federalists and institutionalists sitting in the Department of Justice.

Response to Grasswire2 (Reply #3)

bigtree

(85,986 posts)
10. all of the moaning about DOJ is because Congress handed that responsibility over to Garland
Sat Jun 4, 2022, 08:32 PM
Jun 2022

...INSTEAD of using their own power (inherent contempt) to compel testimony and documents.

Turning that back around to Garland is just nonsense.

Congress has the responsibility to inform, and the Justice Dept. is charged with winning in court. Prosecuting Meadows for contempt, or anyone else Congress passed the buck on doesn't do anything but gain access to the documents and communications Congress sought.

But you have to ask why DOJ felt they needed to make convictions on just misdemeanors for Navarro or Bannon? It was to compel release of those documents and communications THEY felt were necessary to prosecute the crimes contained within.

It's not the role of the DOJ to further political aims of the Jan. 6 committee in informing the public about crimes and abuses surrounding the insurrection. The DOJ PROSECUTES crimes and rarely explains anything outside of what they convict people for. It doesn't take much to recognize that political aims and effective investigation and prosecution don't always mesh.

Moreover, Congress and the DOJ aren't coordinating their work outside of sharing info on perps, and that's as it should be. Their work is based on the law, and what it takes to get convictions. DOJ is about proving a crime they can defend in court; Congress is about informing us, as they intend to do this month in hearings. One has an obligation to actually succeed in court, the other has the obligation to tell us what happened. (see Iran Contra and Ollie North)

Meadows isn't off the hook just because they didn't arrest him on a contempt charge. DOJ moved forward on Navarro because his arrest comes with the documents he's withheld that include communications with Trump, Meadows, and others in the plot to overturn the results of the election, as well as communications surrounding the Jan. 6 insurrection. That's the target of this prosecution, not snatching Meadows up on a petty charge, but gaining evidence which ties him to Trump.

Congress couldn't compel the release of what Meadows communicated with then-Pres. Trump because the OLC statue (no matter what the committee is now arguing) shields those discussions. Navarro spent months flailing around in courts trying to keep documents from the committee claiming they were privileged. He lost all of those court battles and got himself indicted and arrested.

Now the DOJ can finally have access to obviously incriminating communications between Navarro and the former president. That's the point of the arrest; to gain access to the documents Congress declined to obtain themselves, or couldn't because of claims of 'privileged' conversations with then-president Trump.

Yes, he's out on a lesser charge, although facing up to two years without early release in a federal prison. But that won't stop the DOJ from bringing charges on whatever they find in the material he was keeping hidden. That is basically how the Jan. 6 committee was proceeding. Get the documents and show culpability.

Navarro and Meadows have different situations regarding privilege. As written, executive privilege applies to "senior advisers" or "immediate advisers." Navarro is a trade adviser, and not covered by the statute, at least as far as DOJ and courts have ruled.

It's an uphill battle with Meadows on contempt, facing a result in court that the DOJ must feel is fruitless, not worth losing that fight, especially if they don't think they need his documents to proceed with their investigation - which would be the entire point of a contempt prosecution, obtaining documents and communications which incriminate, not just arresting Meadows on a lesser contempt charge.

This is clearly an active DOJ investigation which is reaching into the Oval Office for accountability. Whether someone thinks it's moving fast enough for them, or hasn't ensnared Trump yet doesn't change that fact.

This indictment and arrest has accomplished what Congress FAILED to do when they punted their responsibility to the DOJ, refused to employ inherent contempt and squeeze the perps themselves. It loosened incriminating evidence from Navarro which should directly incriminate Trump in the plot to overturn the election - Navarro's part involving coercing Pence to refuse to certify election results.

Inherent contempt WAS the point when Congress had that option and decided against it. It's not DOJ's role to fill out that political obligation. They are in the business of winning court cases, not making political hay for the Jan. 6 committee.

Grasswire2

(13,568 posts)
13. show me, please, where J6 "punted" its responsibility?
Sat Jun 4, 2022, 09:46 PM
Jun 2022

Hasn't the public been told time after time after time that the protocol is for Congressional committee to make the criminal referral to DoJ? That it is de rigieur?

Details, please. A statement from J6 to that intent would be useful.

bigtree

(85,986 posts)
14. EVERYONE was screaming from the beginning for them to use inherent contempt
Sat Jun 4, 2022, 10:10 PM
Jun 2022

...it's not some bright new idea that no one has thought of.

Inherent contempt could be seen as ‘arbitrary’ move to enforce subpoenas, which courts are already upholding, Hoyer says

... we made a judgment that we want the American people to understand we are pursuing not arbitrary action, but considered and thoughtful action,” he said.
https://rollcall.com/2019/10/16/hoyer-democrats-not-using-inherent-contempt-hope-to-conclude-impeachment-inquiry-this-year/


Rep. Lieu had a inherent contempt bill which went nowhere in Congress. So now the fashion is to harrangue DOJ for not accomplishing what the majority of Congress shrank away from.

That's all beside the point, as I wrote. The DOJ and Congress have different roles, and charging Meadows with contempt would tie up DOJ's prosecution ultimately fighting against a 6-3 conservative majority on the SC.

Barb McQuade @BarbMcQuade 13h
...a 1984 DOJ Office of Legal Counsel opinion says executive branch officials who rely on executive privilege should not be charged with contempt of Congress. The goal is to protect and encourage candid communications between a POTUS and advisers.

Grasswire2

(13,568 posts)
16. yeah, another stinking OLC memo.
Sat Jun 4, 2022, 11:54 PM
Jun 2022

It's a canard. Not everyone who claims executive privilege is actually deserving of that claim.

Fiendish Thingy

(15,585 posts)
12. Not a Garland apologist, just living in the reality based community
Sat Jun 4, 2022, 09:25 PM
Jun 2022

Barb McQuade had a good thread explaining the possible reasoning behind this decision:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=16763319

#10-13 especially pertinent.

I have no problem with Congress using it’s powers of Inherent Contempt.

wiggs

(7,812 posts)
15. We are in the dark. This is a complicated investigation that others know a lot more about. I hold
Sat Jun 4, 2022, 10:28 PM
Jun 2022

out hope that this arc is bending toward justice.

But this goes against observations over decades that TPTB, including some dems, are unwilling to expose the ugly underbelly of American democracy which is AT LEAST partially run by the wealthy, global oligarchs, corporations worth more than most countries. Many moderates don't want to upset the apple cart and ruin our reputation as a global beacon of democracy and capitalism.

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