Why I would never allow [my daughter] to play middle or high school sports if we lived in Ohio

[In It to Win It]

Pole Vault Power
@polevaultpower

This is my daughter. She just turned 9.

Here is why I would never allow her to play middle or high school sports if we lived in Ohio…

A few days ago, the Ohio Republicans passed a change to state law that was snuck in at the last minute, under the guise of “protecting” girls sports.

This law allows ANYONE to dispute the sex of an athlete on a school team.

There are no safeguards in place to ensure that this is not used maliciously.

Girls who do not look feminine enough, girls of color, girls who are “too good” are likely to be the biggest targets.

But any girl could be targeted. Maybe someone doesn’t like her parents or maybe someone wants to make sure the opposing team doesn’t have enough eligible players.

So what does a girl have to do to prove she is a girl?

First, the physician has to examine the girl’s external and internal reproductive anatomy.

I have to emphasize that this will impact girls as young as 5th or 6th grade, ~10-11 years old.

A year or two older than my daughter.

Step one to proving your correct sex is female:

A doctor will need to spread open your labia and examine the size of your clitoris. A clitoris that is “too large” could be a sign that you are intersex and not female enough for sports.

Step two to proving your correct sex is female:

A doctor will then insert one or two gloved fingers inside your vagina, while pressing against your abdomen with their other hand, so they can feel your uterus and ovaries.

This will likely be quite painful for these young girls, and extremely traumatic.

There is no medical reason to do a pelvic exam on girls this young, absent any signs of a problem.

This is sexual assault and will traumatize these girls. That is by design.

This part of the exam would probably be covered by insurance, depending on how it is billed. But these next two steps would likely not be covered for most people.

Step three to proving your correct sex is female:

Your blood will be drawn and your testosterone levels measured.

How much testosterone is too much? Unclear.

Does having “high T” give girls an advantage? No, not always. But this bill leaves no room for nuance.

Step four to proving your correct sex is female:

Your blood will also be tested to see if you are XX or XY.

Except not everyone is XX or XY and there are XY women who have no advantage in sports because of the nuances of their genetics, but that won’t matter here 🤷🏻?♀️

This bill offers protection from retaliation for people who report an athlete they suspect is not truly female. There is no requirements that they make these reports in good faith.

There is no protection for the athletes accused of lying about their sex.

Any athlete who suspects they were “harmed” by an athlete who lied about their sex can sue that school district. If that athlete’s parents are unwilling to have their daughter sexually assaulted, or cannot afford the testing, the district will have to pay $$ to the accuser

So from an administrative standpoint, you basically have to require that all female athletes do this testing in order to play interscholastic sports.

Otherwise your district is in danger of having to forfeit games and losing litigation if you don’t have this paperwork up front

Interscholastic sports in Ohio will only be accessible to girls whose parents are willing to subject them to sexual assault and very expensive and unnecessary bloodwork.

Congrats to everyone trying to “save” women’s sports from your trans athlete boogeymen.

Is winning the most important part of high school sports?

Because setting aside the incredible trauma and expense caused by this bill, at the end of the day, the message is that winning is what matters the most.

That’s not the lesson I want my daughter to learn from sports.

Link to tweet

[Ferrets are Cool]

1. This legislation is one of the most disturbing ever created.

That the electorate would allow it is shameful.

[Initech]

54. It's all to please fucking Fox News viewers.

Ohio is doing this, because that's the outrage-du-jour on Tucker Carlson and Sean Hannity. Like you can almost instantly tell who watches that shit by the talking points that they spout. Like it was manufactured or something. I swear to god, Fox News is the epitome of everything evil that's happened in the last 25 years. They are an inherent danger to this country.

[Ferrets are Cool]

57. I cannot dispute even one word you said

[HariSeldon]

2. Ohio should lose all federal funding for school sports

This is a Title IX violation.

[onecaliberal]

5. 👆🏻👆🏻👆🏻👆🏻👆🏻👆🏻

[Botany]

3. Not to worry "they" want the teachers to carry guns too and everybody else in the state can ..

... carry too. 1 party rule by Christo Fascist mouth breathers have taken over the state. After my mom passes
I'm gone.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100216758689

[Auggie]

4. This will be challenged in the courts, right?

[In It to Win It]

6. Sure it can

Unsure if they would win though

[Stinky The Clown]

7. Yeah, all the way to the Sam Alito court.

[Auggie]

8. Oh, shit

[jaxexpat]

9. The answer for this is just too easy.

Ban all school sports.

[Dr. Strange]

12. Or just do away with sex segregation.

No separate but equal--every completes on the same field.

[jaxexpat]

23. One would be as difficult as the other to remove from society.

It could be they're both so intertwined that their excavation from our education system could become informative enough to cause the media to dismiss it's importance.

[treestar]

50. Yes have sports be outside the schools completely

Then nothing like this has to come up - the contrarians won't be able to get laws passed to require things like this.

It might cause red/blue divide in sports teams, as some of the private clubs will do this. But then all that has to happen is start another club.

It works with the Little League. It probably doesn't have to be all that expensive, either.

[Initech]

56. Actually I'd rather ban Fox News first.

I'm convinced that if they were gone, a lot of this shit would disappear!

[housecat]

10. Where are the lawsuits? All girls have standing, and the only thing the perverts fear is

losing money

[vlyons]

11. Take your daughter to a music store and lt her pick out an instrument to play

Flute, clarinet, piccolo, sax, or violin. She can march in the school band or play in the orchestra

[Loki Liesmith]

15. Wow nuance

+1

[WhiskeyGrinder]

16. .

These alarmist things being brought up in this post just aren't going to happen.

Why do you think this?

[CrackityJones75]

25. LOLOLOL OK.....

You seriously do not think this shit is going ti happen? Of course this is going to happen. Sports parents are fucking insane! I know, I have coached girls hockey for years and now am coaching youth boys hockey. The parents will do this just to fuck with some other athlete.

If you don’t think this os going to go down yer nuts..

[Arazi]

28. This just easily passed in the Ohio senate, on to the house where it's expected to pass

The Republican governor will sign it.

13 more Republican states just introduced the same legislation. I’m not sure why you think “cooler” heads will prevail. Republicans LOVE this shit and are rapidly enacting it everywhere as fast as they can.

[xmas74]

34. My daughter was a swimmer.

Some of the swim parents were insane. In their drive to have their child be the next big thing they'd have done anything. They disputed times, made claims about starts, turns, etc. They filed disputes about swimsuits.

Those assholes would absolutely take advantage of this bill, no questions asked, if their child was guaranteed a better ribbon, a medal or even a trophy.

[obamanut2012]

35. They already have with Olympic-level women and girls

And, there wasn't an actual law for that, just policy.

[greenjar_01]

48. ...

[treestar]

60. It says the bill passed

is the governor likely to sign it? Many insane bills are proposed, and they don't make it out of committee, but this one passed at least one body.

[Hekate]

61. Don't worry, gulliver, Roe v Wade is in no real danger

[yardwork]

80. Both sides, huh?

How do you know the law won't be followed?

[Loki Liesmith]

14. If my daughter wanted to play sports anywhere

I’d just let her play.

[OverBurn]

19. +1

[jalan48]

24. I agree. Ask the daughter what she would like to do.

[TeamProg]

17. WHAT ?? THE ?? F*** ??

[ancianita]

18. Now alll that latent Republican pedophilia comes out.

Ohioans should be embarrassed at how fucked up, sick and disgusting this all is.

[IngridsLittleAngel]

30. Yes. We know you do.

We all have a pretty good idea of how you feel about the trans community.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100215969127

[CrackityJones75]

37. No I do not think you do.

I have friends, coworkers and soon to be married family that are trans. I have marched for LGBTQ+ rights many times. I also support women's rights and understand the struggles that they have been through. It isn’t a cut and dried issue right now and I support that some women don’t feel comfortable sharing their sports and achievements with trans-women. I also am not really sure how large of an issue this is. Are there many instances of this being an issue so far? I don’t think anyone with any intelligence believes that people are transitioning solely to take over women's sports. So is this issue being pushed solely to split us libs? I believe it is.

If you want to vilify me for that, ok but also I don’t believe you understand where I am coming from either. I think you also feed into the rights desire to cause distraction on the left as well. As a parent of a daughter that has several trans friends, a bus driver who drives for MANY trans students, friends and like I said family by way of marriage I can tell you that I completely respect all people trans or not.


So…. what other of my posts are you cataloging for later use?

[IngridsLittleAngel]

40. Honestly? This is the first thing I've seen from you that seems supportive.

It feels like each and every other time this comes up, you're coming down on the side against us, I'm sorry to say.

No. This is not a cut and dried issue, but, not in the way a lot of people think. I don't think many people understand the effect that HRT has upon a person, especially a MTF. I've spent 2022 listening to a lot of "Yeah, I think they're right. Unfair advantages. Science. Genetics. Puberty." I discussed that above in post #29. One medication, just one (Spironolactone, to block testosterone) has already had a noticeable effect upon my physical strength in less than a month - and not for the positive. I've had to do major work in my apartment over the last five weeks so they can come in and handle long-neglected repairs, and now to spray the building for bugs. What started off as "Yeah, okay, I think I got this" at the start of May has now turned into "Oh shit. I need some help..." here in early June. Stuff that I once had no issue moving or lifting is now an issue. There are also occasional coordination issues and brief dizzy spells to go along with not having the same strength today that I did a month ago.

And we're just talking about standard around the home crap. As I said, I went from playing baseball 30+ years ago to I doubt right now I could compete in any slow-pitch softball league anywhere. For any of female trans athletes who are at least undergoing HRT (and I will agree that any trans athlete wanting to participate must be on HRT and have acceptable hormone levels), they are or have experienced the same.

These issues are being pushed out of hate, period, not out of a "distraction." The QOP is the party of hate and has been for a long time now. They've now decided to focus their hate solely upon a community where 41% of us attempt suicide for various reasons, and far too many succeed. What they've tried to do as far as banning trans athletes and healthcare for trans teens is greasing the skids toward criminalizing transgenderism, period. DeSatan has already started by trying to ban treatment for adults on Medicaid.

As for me, I do not distract. I have always focused on human rights above all else, whether or not I'm "directly affected." I stand with BLM, even though I'm pasty white thanks to agoraphobia. I am disgusted and appalled when I hear about swastikas being painted on Jewish establishments. I was angered and sickened over immigrant children in cages under TFG. So, yeah, if I'm going to speak up when others are threatened, I'm going to speak up when my own community is threatened.

One of the most painful things a person can be told is "No." It becomes even worse when it's followed with "You don't belong" solely for how you are born. I could tell you some stories about that.... but I'm trying to keep this under 10,000 words. Telling a trans girl "No. You don't belong" is absolutely dehumanizing and hurts in ways that you can only understand if it's happened to you. The reality is in sports, there is never a true "level playing field." Some athletes are just flat-out better thanks to their talent (see: Babe Ruth or Wilt Chamberlain). Some cheat to that level (see: Barry Bonds). It's the way it is. No, cheaters should not be welcome. But the fact is no matter what, someone out there is better. That's just life.

But what the QOP is doing to absolutely dehumanize trans women by saying "You don't belong! You're not welcome..." Look. In my lifetime, I've been humiliated in sports by people flat-out better than me. And I've been told "You're not wanted here" for being trans. I promise you the latter hurts a million times worse than losing.

I can only hope that if you do truly respect us, you at least take the time to read this.

[CrackityJones75]

41. You MUST have me confused with someone else.

I am VERY pro trans rights. I have only ever commented on a few things here.

[IngridsLittleAngel]

42. All I know is that the prior posts I've seen have resembled #26...

Namely, on the matter on trans athletes, and coming across like they question whether trans athletes (especially women) should be allowed to participate.

I don't claim to have read every post in DU history... I just know those are the ones I recall seeing.

[CrackityJones75]

43. If women want to question it I think they should.

Why is that so controversial?

Like it or not there are concerns that women have and they shouldn’t be dismissed as though they should just accept it. There are definite differences between a male and a female body. When someone transitions that doesn’t change. I know there are hormone treatments and all of that but that doesn’t negate the differences in body types. At least not overnight.

As I said in another post maybe much if this gets figured out and the way sports are structured now are very different in the future, but we likely will not get there if the conversation is “Too bad, deal with it”.

One thing I know for sure is these crazy assed laws of inspecting womens (cis trans or otherwise) body parts are a fucking no go for me. Not acceptable and sounds like rape to me.

[IngridsLittleAngel]

63. What about our concerns? And I consider discrimination in any form to be controversial...

That's the thing that gets to us about this - including and especially here on DU. This very discussion is an example of this. I made a number of points and brought up a number of things in posts #29 and #40 on this very thread. Not only the affects of transitioning - which I can now speak of first-hand - but how demoralizing and dehumanizing "No. You don't belong here" is. Has what I said been acknowledged or address? No. Which is why many of us not only feel discriminated against, but that we get cis-splained on this.

If you or anyone else thinks that losing in a competition, even to a cheater (real or perceived) hurts as much as "You can't go where the others go"... I sit and shake my head. I've lost. I've lost to actual cheaters. That comes nowhere close to the hurt and soul-wounding experience of "You don't belong here. Get out!" I'd gladly spend every day for the rest of my life losing in a competition over being told once more "We don't want your type around here."

I speak from experience. I have stories. Ohhh, do I have stories...

If you have a problem with "crazy-assed laws" like this stuff from Ohio? Don't bring it to me. I didn't do it. The Republiqan party is doing it. The QOP. The Real Groomer Party. The party of people who want to do shit with teenagers. The party of people like Gaetz. They're the goddamned party obsessed with people's bodies and people's private parts. They're the ones wanting to overturn Roe, they're the ones obsessed with genitals, and they're the ones wanting to look up and/or cop a feel on teenage girls. NOT US.

In closing, I can only repeat the words of the current president, and, the administrator of this very website:

"In the past year, hundreds of anti-transgender bills in States were proposed across America, most of them targeting transgender kids. The onslaught has continued this year. These bills are wrong. Efforts to criminalize supportive medical care for transgender kids, to ban transgender children from playing sports, and to outlaw discussing LGBTQI+ people in schools undermine their humanity and corrode our Nation’s values. Studies have shown that these political attacks are damaging to the mental health and well-being of transgender youth, putting children and their families at greater risk of bullying and discrimination." - Joseph R. Biden Jr, 3/3/2022

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100215969127

[CrackityJones75]

64. You've brought up a lot of things.

I am going to assume that you aren’t charging me with the allegations in your post.

[IngridsLittleAngel]

65. Charging? No.

Educating you and others here? I hope so.

[IngridsLittleAngel]

29. Let me explain something to all of you wanting to tell trans athletes to pound sand...

Last edited Mon Jun 6, 2022, 03:45 AM - Edit history (1)

First off, anytime you use the word "but", you invalidate everything before it...

Besides the obvious discrimination (separate but equal is. not. equal.), a lot of people sure want to act like experts on transitioning and how it might affect athletes. Well, guess what? I can share a first-hand story with all of you.

I myself am MTF and transitioning as we speak. In fact, after a number of hurdles and roadblocks, I'm finally receiving prescriptions. So far, just Spironolactone, which I've now been on for about 3 1/2 weeks. All it's doing is serving as a hormone blocker. We haven't actually yet started hormone replacement.

So, how do I feel?

Mentally, a bit better. Physically... I feel like I've aged 10 years in a month. Mostly in the form of occasional dizzy spells and... a loss of physical strength. Yes. Loss - not gain - of physical strength. My roommate and I are having to deal with a number of around-the-home projects so the new management company for this building can take care of various things... Parts of the job that I once could handle myself, I now either need help with, or have to delegate to someone else because I can't do it. Things that I could once lift on my own now either require me saying "Please help me with this", or asking someone else "I can't. Get this for me, please..."

That, once again, is from one prescription and not quite one month on it.

What's going to happen once they hand me other medications and we go from blocking hormones to replacing them?

I played baseball in my youth. The way I feel right now, I'm not even sure I could play in a local softball league.

What's this "unfair advantage" you speak of? Because people sure want to talk about "science" when it comes to trans issues, but all I see is a lot of myth and a lot of assumptions, and no one paying attention to what happens when you start taking medications that affect your hormones.

I'd like to also point out that it's posts like this that leave some of us feeling unwelcome and looked down on here. It's why people post threads about transphobia here. People that post stuff like this never once think about the affect their words have upon us.

In closing, I leave you with the following:

"In the past year, hundreds of anti-transgender bills in States were proposed across America, most of them targeting transgender kids. The onslaught has continued this year. These bills are wrong. Efforts to criminalize supportive medical care for transgender kids, to ban transgender children from playing sports, and to outlaw discussing LGBTQI+ people in schools undermine their humanity and corrode our Nation’s values. Studies have shown that these political attacks are damaging to the mental health and well-being of transgender youth, putting children and their families at greater risk of bullying and discrimination."

Those would be the words of one Joseph R. Biden Jr., on March 30th of this year.

[Ferrets are Cool]

62. "First off, anytime you use the word "but", you invalidate everything before it..."

BRAVO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[vercetti2021]

73. Fucking BRAVO!

This is so true. All the treatment I'm getting. I do NOT have that same strength anymore. I use to be able to pick up 100 pounds easily. Now? I can barely even left 50 pounds. I'm tired of this fucking wedge issue. How many possible trans kids can there be in these states?? Like its all fucking dumbass culture issues and our goddamn side legit falls for it each time.

[IngridsLittleAngel]

74. Few, if any

Each of these states pushing anti-trans sports laws have a handful of trans athletes at best. There was one state that had.... one. But you would think, according to the QOP and people here who are happy to post right-wing talking points that there's a horde of trans women just waiting to take over sports, destroying cis women and "making women extinct" or whatever.

But, I know. Can't be saying they're bigots. That's not fair.

I don't think everyone is falling for it, though. I think some are just glad to go along with it because a lot of people on the left hate us too.

As far as my own physical strength... The other day, someone came over to pick up and recycle a broken window air conditioner that had been sitting in my kitchen for a couple years. This was an AC that prior to starting Spiro I could actually lift on my own. I had to drag it across the apartment and slide it outside for them. I initially tried to pick it up... no fucking way. Wasn't happening. And the thing weighed... 85 pounds or so?

So, yeah. We're just gonna go out there and crush it in sports while on HRT.

[vercetti2021]

75. Yeah no way possible we would

I love sports, but I don't play them. I never would anyway. Not now especially. I couldn't do what I did before, so what's the point?

[IngridsLittleAngel]

76. I know I couldn't...

If I tried to play slow-pitch softball right now, I doubt I could hit the ball sharply at all. Not that I had a ton of power in the late 80's but... Less so now, judging by the problems I've had lifting things the last few weeks.

Golf? My average before now was in the 120s... I doubt I could even shoot that "low" now.

In fact, I just checked now and noticed a noticeable loss of muscle tone and mass in both of my forearms. And it's not like I had rather large or strong arms to begin with.

So, no. Spiro and female hormones are not some sort of wonder drugs that turn trans females into Wonder Woman. Right now, I feel more like Diana Prince.

[IngridsLittleAngel]

82. An update on the affect Spiro is already having on me

20 years ago, I was doing some clerical work from home for a friend of mine who also worked from home. For the sake of making sure I had everything I needed to handle things for him, he shipped me 10 reams of paper. 5,000 sheets. I managed to lift and carry that box all by myself when it arrived.

This morning, while doing some cleanup work so they can come in and spray on Saturday, I did some work in a closet here. I still have 5 reams of that paper all these years later (Gee, I don't think I needed 5,000 sheets after all...) I couldn't even lift all 5 remaining reams at once. I could only get 3 at a time. So two trips to get them out of the closet, two trips to get them back in.. And that's just the paper. The same paper I had no problem carrying twice as much of in the past.

So... Yeah. Anyone who thinks trans women who are on HRT are a walking ball of muscle and can just crush their cis opponents? I've been on Spiro for four weeks - haven't even started female hormones yet - and have gone from carrying a box full of paper to being able to lift 3 reams at a time.

I'm sure in my present condition I could absolutely crush a ball... out of the infield.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

36. .

I'm fine with all of it. Everyone should have equal rights.

FWIW your next sentences undermine what you say here, so it's unclear what you mean by "I'm fine with all of it."

But, I DO NOT support transgender females (born male) competing against cis females (born female) athletically. It's just not fair, it's not equal rights, it's a born advantage.

Trans athletes vary in their abilities in the same way cis athletes do. Mark Phelps has a "born advantage" in that the lengths/ratios of his limbs and trunk are unusual, and his body produces less lactic acid than most athletes, decreasing his recovery time. Should he swim only against people who have similar body ratios or lactic acid production, to be "fair"?

[CrackityJones75]

39. That is an interesting point

I do think you bring up an interesting point but there are the male body and the female body are physiologically different in greater ways that limb size. To say that they are not you would have to undo all of the scientific classification of living things. But just because they are different doesn’t mean that they will “win”. I would have to look again but I don’t believe it has been a major issue so far. Has there been a major increase in trans women winning in the olympics? Has there even been many participants?

But I am not willing to say that cis women need to shut up and not have a say in what happens in their leagues and sports associations after everything they have and are still fighting for. They get to have a say and should be able to have that discussion. Hell men have kept women (cis or not) out of their sports forever. As a youth coach I would have mixed feelings about a recent transitioned girl on the field at the age of puberty because of the potential difference in strength and size. But then again I remember getting knocked the fuck out on the ice by a girl in hockey who hit me so hard I was out cold for a good ling while. There absolutely is room for this to get figured out but I don’t believe telling cis women they have to accept A without having any discussion is the right approach at all.

[yardwork]

81. How do you define transgender females?

Read the OP again.

[NotHardly]

21. Any parent or guardian who would allow their child to be subjected to this should be INVESTIGATED

... and anyone who lays a hand on a child for those purposes should be charged with CHILD ABUSE... period. They hate women, they hate girls, and they are punishing women and girls with their Legislative powers. Phuck them legislators, phuck 'em right out of office.

[usonian]

22. Just call it the Larry Nassar Law.

Gang Of Perverts.

Don't want Gubmint Interference, except in your pants.

[hunter]

27. Sexually segregated school sports for minors shouldn't exist.

That is all.

[elias7]

32. By failing to acknowledge the gender gap, you effectively emasculate title 9

I’m not sure you want to take that position

[hunter]

38. What's the purpose of school sports?

There's only two good reasons to have them -- to encourage an active lifestyle, and to learn cooperation with others in a common goal, even on teams where players have a broad range of abilities.

All the other stuff, with teams segregated by sex, can be done outside of school. Let the parents pay for that. Let the pro leagues pay for that.

Yep, high school football needs to go away.

The sports I played in my high school experience were mixed. Volleyball, tennis, and cross country. There was a considerable overlap in abilities, many girls better than boys, and about in equal mix of klutzes like me, both boys and girls. In the tennis class there were a couple of girls who could clobber the best boys. Part of my own experience was influenced by the fact that competitive sports like football siphoned off all the male jocks. If I'd had to take any PE classes with them it would have been intolerable.

I really didn't learn to appreciate any sports until I played recreational softball in college on mixed teams. I'd grown up to be less of a klutz.

In middle and high school I wasn't the shortest kid, but I was skinny. In middle school they made us wrestle. Me and another kid were in the smallest weight class, a good 15 pounds less than the other groups, so we only wrestled each other. We were both considered geeks and I remember everyone crowded around hooting and hollering at the freak show. Kids don't need those kinds of experiences.

[CrackityJones75]

45. There's a winning platform right there....

I can read the headline now. Democrats want to destroy youth fun. Holy hell would we get destroyed on that. Democrats and republicans alike enjoy sports and watching their kids participate, and grow within them.

[hunter]

46. I don't pretend to represent the "Democrats."

My personal opinions do not represent the platform of the Democratic Party.

With regards to my political activism, that's always practical.

I always vote for and support the Democratic candidates, not the Republicans, and never any self-proclaimed "progressive" spoilers.

Fuck Ralph Nader.

I was an enthusiastic supporter of the Biden/Harris ticket, in both money and time.

I don't apologize for being some kind of Social Justice Warrior, radical environmentalist, and someone who hates car culture and U.S. American football.

[CrackityJones75]

47. Well thats a good thing.

Because if we ran with that as part of our message we would get stomped. Taking away billy’s football game or suzy’s soccer matches would have suburban American as red as possible.

[hunter]

51. You probably shouldn't talk to me about soccer.

My sister is a soccer goddess.

It's not boy's football.

[CrackityJones75]

52. I am sorry can you point to where I said anything of the sort?

[greenjar_01]

49. In my experience, a lot of these folks commenting on girls sports

1) don't have girls OR
2) don't have girls who play organized sports

Just sayin'

[CrackityJones75]

53. Wondering the same.

I do and have been active coaching these girls for a while. I do also coach boys and in the sport I coach (hockey) it could be very dangerous at certain ages. That is aside from how the girls themselves feel about it.

[CrackityJones75]

68. If they think conservatives don't care about girls sports they are nuts.

Sure once they are fully grown adult women fun time is over and everybody else’s little girl needs to become a subservient 1950’s mother but these people are crazy into their girls playing sports.

[IngridsLittleAngel]

69. Right. I'm nuts and they care.

Who's passing "inspect the genitals" bills?

What side is constantly saying shit like "Women belong in the kitchen" and "Women's sports are a waste of money" and making derogatory jokes/comments about the LPGA and WNBA? I'll give you a hint: It's not the left.

But, damnit. If the damned trans people would know their role and shut their mouths and stay in their lane, everything would be fine. We made Ohio do this. And the right would just love to make the WNBA and LPGA two of the biggest leagues in the world but... the woke left is ruining it all for them.

[IngridsLittleAngel]

79. Some of what has been posted in this thread...

...is why there is a 62 post thread in LGBT about transphobia.

I honestly feel like some of the people in this thread are more interested in going after the trans community (who has done nothing to anyone's kids) instead of going after the Ohio QOP for this absolutely sick bill - and they are the ones going after kids.

A few of these posts honestly feel more pro-QOP than pro-trans.

I'm losing hope of things ever changing here.

You would think the words of the president - OUR president - would matter. They don't. It falls on deaf ears. Why do I keep repeating them, including on this thread? To get across the point that President Biden stands with us - NOT THE QOP - on this issue. And that attacks upon the trans community undermine their humanity (his very words).

So, I guess I need to come out and say it, which probably will bring joy to some:

Some of the things said here, some of the beliefs, and the way I've spoken to has very much undermined my humanity and has made me feel that I don't matter, that I'm not wanted, and that I'm seen as beneath them. I truly believe some people here do not see me as a human being.

If their goal was to cause pain... they've succeeded.

[IngridsLittleAngel]

70. They're bigots

Same with anyone who agrees with them on trans issues.

[IngridsLittleAngel]

31. Again, from the party that calls us "perverts" and "groomers" and claim we're a threat to children

If there is one thing the QOP are masters of, it's projection. Do the very shit they accuse Democrats/liberals/LGBTQ's/whoever of doing.

If I were a parent, I wouldn't even let my kid live in Ohio. There are plenty of perfectly good states to live.. Why would I harm my kid by having them in Northern Kentucky?

Upthread, I saw someone call it the Larry Nassar Law. Perfectly said. This will be used by some pedo pervert to sexually assault a kid. And by pervert, I mean someone more aligned with Groomer Gaetz than RuPaul. And by sexually assault, I mean blatantly, intentionally sexually assault a girl. Not just the "collateral damage" type of sexual assault that will already comes from these sicko "examinations."

There's already enough of a sexual abuse problem in sports (Nassar, Sandusky, "hazing" in locker rooms). This is only going to open the door to making it worse, and turning every single female athlete into a target and victim.

The sickest part? "It's a feature, not a bug".. These creeps have an unhealthy fixation with teenage girls. Look at Gaetz. Look at Duggar.

Anyone (and I look upthread once again) thinking this is about "protecting women's sports" or wanting to "separate but equal" the trans community... yet... again? Wake up and smell the noise. This is about bullying and "othering" the trans community (which has been put through LIVING HELL in 2022 already) while getting their creep on with cisgender female athletes.

Maybe instead of using this as another reason to beat us over the head, perhaps you should try screaming at the QOP to get the fuck out of our lives and our pants and to leave us alone?! ALL OF US! Cis, trans, female, people of color, you name it!

[area51]

33. +1 n/t

[Initech]

55. Disgusting, isn't it?

[SYFROYH]

44. I don't blame the author. On the other hand boys have to do the "turn your head and cough"

while having our scrotum cupped for a long time.

[Hekate]

58. You don't even have to bother overturning Title IX, do you?

G. I. L. E. A. D. ! Gilead, Gilead, Yaaaay Gilead !!!

(insert pompom emojis here)

As I said the other day: this is an assault on women and girls. Pole Vault Power is absolutely right.

[Ms. Toad]

67. We should not be engaging in the kind of sexualized hyperbole "describing" the process

by which a challenged athlete obtains a doctor's evaluation of sex.

The bill is horrendous, and I hope the Senate has enough sense not to pass it and the governor has enough sense not to sign it into law. In other words, this editorial is about a proposed law - not an existing one.

Further - NOTHING in the bill describes the sexualized hyperbole above describing what the doctor will do prior to attesting to sex.

If challenged, the challenged athlete must prove sex by a signed doctor's statement.

Here's the provision:

the participant shall establish the participant's sex by presenting a signed physician's statement indicating the participant's sex based
upon only the following:
(1) The participant's internal and external reproductive anatomy;
(2) The participant's normal endogenously produced levels of testosterone;
(3) An analysis of the participant's genetic makeup.

Most children have their sex-assigned-at-birth determined by their genitals (the first criteria). Most children's genitals have also been observed by their doctors on one or more occasions since their birth. Anything in the genitalia which does not match the sex assigned at birth would be noted in the medical record.

Nothing in the bill requires the doctor to consider all 3 criteria. The bill is exclusionary - meaning the doctor cannot consider anything BUT the listed criteria in attesting to the sex of the challenged athlete. (In other words they cannot ask the person their gender and use that as the basis for the attestation.) It is not, as alleged by the editorial author, a series of steps which must be completed by the doctor.

Nothing in the (horribly offensive) bill:

* Requires the doctor to perform a NEW exam prior to attesting to sex (The sex assigned at birth, based on external genetalia, will be recorded in the medical record for most individuals).
* Mentions the size of the clitoris, or anyting else about it.
* Requires an internal exam. Internal reproductive organs are one of the things on which the doctor can base their attestestation - but not the only criteria.
* Requires a blood test for chromosomes
* Requires a blood test for testosterone levels.

Reality is bad enough. Trans women should be permitted to participate in women's sports. Period. Required physician attestations are an abomination.

That said, it isn't helpful when we accept Republican trans-porn fantasies as if they were reality - or, worse yet, creat them ourselves.

[IngridsLittleAngel]

71. "it isn't helpful when we accept Republican trans-porn fantasies as if they were reality"

As we know, some people are more than happy to do so. And why not?

Cisgender females are real females. Trans people aren't real people anyway. Chappelle and Maher and Gervais say so. Besides, you know, reach across the aisle. Gain votes from the "middle" or even the right. Let's just concede this issue. Maybe then the mean ol' Republicans will leave the real people alone. Maybe by agreeing and being bipartisan on this issue, Republicans will be willing to work with us on the stuff that really matters. They're such a small minority anyway. They're not worth fighting for. Keep our powder dry. 3-dimension chess. Culture wars. Distractions. Ponies. This is why we lose elections. Baby steps. Separate but equal. Unfair advantage. Uppity. Special rights. Respect the science. You can't fool Mother Nature.

Did I cover it all?

Holy hell, world. I'm sick of it. Okay? I'm sick of it. I have enough problems in real life. I've had enough shit to deal with this year. I can't go one fucking day without the QOP attacking the LGBTQ community, and it's been ratcheted up for Pride Month. And then every time this comes up, people can't wait to beat trans people over the head because of this or that or "Maybe if you weirdos left sprots alone, this wouldn't be happening!" Or being told where we don't belong (which is the epitome of bigotry.)

There's a 61 post thread in LGBT that sums up how a lot of us feel. Because, no. We don't feel safe or wanted here, and many of the posts up-thread are examples of why.

[IngridsLittleAngel]

72. For the third time in this thread...

(No, not directed at In It To Win It and their original post, but, some of the charming replies this thread has received...)

There's some guy who holds an office in this country. I think a lot of people know him. I imagine at least a few like him. Well, he had something to say a couple months ago:

"In the past year, hundreds of anti-transgender bills in States were proposed across America, most of them targeting transgender kids. The onslaught has continued this year. These bills are wrong. Efforts to criminalize supportive medical care for transgender kids, to ban transgender children from playing sports, and to outlaw discussing LGBTQI+ people in schools undermine their humanity and corrode our Nation’s values. Studies have shown that these political attacks are damaging to the mental health and well-being of transgender youth, putting children and their families at greater risk of bullying and discrimination." - Joseph R. Biden Jr, March 30, 2022

Geez.. I know. Stay in your lane, Biden.

And, of course, because the owner of this very website wouldn't have anything to say... https://www.democraticunderground.com/100215969127

[obamanut2012]

78. Nicely done