Senators say gun deal is within reach, but without Biden's wish list

[iemanja]

Key senators said Sunday there is growing momentum to forge a bipartisan congressional response to recent mass shootings that could toughen federal gun laws for the first time in a generation. But a deal is not yet in hand, they warned, and the delicate talks are expected to continue for several more days as negotiators seek to garner enough Republican support to get a compromise bill through the Senate.

Should an agreement come together, it is certain to fall well short of the parameters that President Biden laid out in a White House address on Thursday, when he called for renewing the federal assault weapons ban that expired in 2004, as well as significantly expanding federal background checks for gun buyers and removing the firearms industry’s immunity from lawsuits.

But a proposal that would encourage states to set up red-flag laws that would allow authorities to keep guns away from people thought to be a threat to their communities or themselves remains under keen discussion, as do measures tackling school security and mental health, according to people involved in the discussions.

“It’s really tough sledding. But I’ve never been part of conversations that are this serious and this thoughtful before, and I know all the Republicans and Democrats who are at the table are there with total sincerity to get an agreement,” Sen. Chris Murphy (Conn.), the Democratic negotiator, said in an interview Sunday.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/06/05/senators-say-gun-deal-is-within-reach-without-bidens-wish-list/

Some hope.

[bucolic_frolic]

1. We are handing the GOP cover for November's election

We should hold fast to our principles. Giving them a win does little to further our cause. And you know they'll repeal it at the first opportunity.

[iemanja]

4. So do nothing because it might help the GOP to do something?

So much for the children. Be sure to tell them that politics matter more than their lives.

[bucolic_frolic]

12. The piddling steps the GOP will agree to will do almost nothing

Which was my whole point

[iemanja]

15. Red flag laws can make a difference

So why oppose the legislation? Sure, it's not enough, but it is something.

[bucolic_frolic]

17. Help the people that harm the children to help the children

I don't say it won't pass. But we are being played yet again. And with 400 million guns out there, will it prevent one incident? How would we recognize such instances?

[iemanja]

19. Someone can petition for a domestic abuser

to be denied access to guns, for example. Or an unstable teen or young adult.

[Ray Bruns]

16. Agreed. They are playing for time.

Put up some weak kneed proposals. The question is, will the Senate even pass them?

[iemanja]

20. Seems less like it

with so many Democratic voters opposing the law.

[Cosmocat]

32. Correct

What is being proposed won't make much of a difference, just bend over to their "hardening schools' bullshit and throwing some $ at MH.

Not even remotely worth giving them a relief valve for the pressure that they are feeling on this.

[JustAnotherGen]

35. +1 eom

[vlyons]

2. any GOP gun legislation won't do diddledee squat

call it the Gun Gaslighting Act

[iemanja]

3. Red flag laws matter.

[Straw Man]

45. Yup.

So would a 21-year-old age limit for semi-auto firearms.

[bucolic_frolic]

13. +1 You got it!!

[Happy Hoosier]

5. What's in it?

From what I've heard, there is very little actually about guns in it. The GOP is willing to sacrifice our children on the altar of the NRA.

[iemanja]

7. Encouraging states to set up red flag laws

Which allow potential dangerous people to be prohibited from buying guns. It's something.

[Happy Hoosier]

23. I mean, good.... but that's pretty pathetic.

I mean, that is literally the LEAST we can do.

[Amishman]

39. and looking at the political landscape, it is also the most we can expect to do

We need ten Pubs to cross over to pass anything. That should put expectations pretty low.

And before someone brings up ending the filibuster, if it isn't clear by now that Manchin won't vote for that under any circumstances, then I don't know what I can do to help you.

[Happy Hoosier]

41. I get that. It just pisses me off. NOTHING impacts them. NOTHING. NT

[jimfields33]

9. It has been a huge success in Florida.

[Lovie777]

6. I just heard on CNN that it is ......

which I tend to believe the party of death is lying with very little compromise "red flag" bullshit.

The obession of the party of death solidify the party's nickname.

[iemanja]

8. You prefer that it not be passed?

Red flag laws can stop dangerous people from acquiring guns. It's not enough, but it's something.

[JHB]

22. ...IF they actually pass any. How many red states will really do it?

And of those, how many will simply pass toothless fig-leaf laws that don't actually do anything, or be skewed in some way to impact some communities more than the nominal intended targets of the law?

[iemanja]

26. I think it better to attempt something

then to do nothing. We already know the consequences of doing nothing.

More info: https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=16768302

[J_William_Ryan]

10. Sen. Chris Murphy

is being snowed by Republicans ‘negotiating’ in bad-faith.

Republicans are just running out the clock until November.

And ‘encouraging’ the states means most, if not all, red states will do nothing.

[iemanja]

14. Schumer has set a 10 day clock

Which is June 10. He says he has no patience for protracted negotiations.

[spanone]

11. 'encourages' states to set up red-flag laws.

[JHB]

18. "Encourage states to set up red-flag laws"? How exactly? What "encouragements" would be in it...

...and what "discouragements" to not do so would be in it?

[iemanja]

25. Money

WHAT IS THE FEDERAL PROPOSAL?

Graham and Blumenthal are still developing the plan, but a similar bill proposed last year by Florida Sens. Marco Rubio and Bill Nelson essentially would pay states to implement red flag law programs. A bid last year by Graham and Blumenthal to let federal courts keep guns away from people who show warning signs of violence failed to generate political support.

Blumenthal called the failed effort to create a federal program a learning experience and said the new proposal would set a national standard that states must meet in order to be eligible for federal grants. He compared it to federal highway laws where grants are dependent on states setting speed limits or drunk-driving standards.

“If you have speed limits, you get the money,” he said, adding that the red flag law would operate on the same principle.

https://apnews.com/article/gun-politics-shootings-donald-trump-ap-top-news-laws-bdb661de1fe14e58951102349d5d44be

The WaPo article doesn't contain this information. I had to hunt it down.

On why red flag laws matter.

https://www.axios.com/2022/06/06/red-flag-laws-test-evidence-that-mass-shootings-are-preventable

[Jedi Guy]

21. This thread is interesting.

So if we can't get everything we want, then we shouldn't do what's possible because A) we didn't get everything we wanted, and/or B) because it might help the GOP in the midterms.

The former makes the perfect the enemy of the good. The latter is an extremely cynical take given how many threads I've seen full of comments screaming for Congress to "do something!" Evidently "something" can be defined as "only precisely what we want."

[JHB]

28. It's not about "perfect", it's about kabuki negotiations by the Republicans...

...to do nothing.

They have done so over and over, over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and OVER!

At what point can we cease to be accused of being "purists" by not taking the bait?

[Jedi Guy]

36. "At what point can we cease to be accused of being "purists" by not taking the bait?"

The point at which we stop shitting all over what progress, however small it may be, is or can be made. The reality here is that the GOP is not going to give us all/any of the stuff on the wish list Biden laid out. The reality is that we lack the votes to pass anything without at least minimal/tepid GOP support.

So the question becomes, is it worthwhile to negotiate with the GOP to pass some measures that will hopefully reduce gun violence, or is it preferable to put our collective nose in the air and refuse to take what we can get because it's not everything we wanted? If the goal here is to save lives, the latter course of action seems wildly counterproductive.

And again, the cynical "we shouldn't do this because it'll potentially help the GOP in the midterms" angle is pretty gross, honestly. Doing something is preferable to doing nothing since it'll save lives. If people are willing to forego that possibility because it might help the GOP in the midterms... are you okay with sacrificing lives in the name of politics? Because that's honestly how that course of action comes across to me.

[JHB]

38. The "because of the midterms" angle was not mine, soplease stick with the points I was arguing

As for the rest, sure, it's worth a shot, Charlie Brown. I'm sure Lucy will hold the ball still this time.

[Kaleva]

40. This may be the best we can hope for given the lack of support for serious measures

People like MLK, Gandhi, Mandela nd so many others dedicated their lives, were beaten, jailed and some lost their lives because they thought the causes they were fighting for was worth it. Heck, even Cindy Sheehan gave up her friends, job and marriage for her cause.

Now people are satisfied with posting on internet discussion boards or Facebook and patting themselves on the back for it.

[Jedi Guy]

44. Incremental progress is still progress, and better than nothing, or even regression.

I get the cynicism since I'm normally a cynical bastard myself. I get the weariness of the GOP's constant gamesmanship and outright bullshit. But at this moment in history, the deck is stacked against us despite the fact that we hold the White House and both houses of Congress. That's just where we are right now, and it makes more sense to operate in the paradigm of where we are as opposed to where we'd rather be.

Politics is the art of the possible, and what's possible right now is small, incremental steps that fall far short of the wish list. If those measures prevent even one shooting or save even one life, then they were worthwhile even if they weren't everything we wanted.

[Straw Man]

46. I'm with you.

Unfortunately, rhetoric I'm reading here suggests that all-or-nothing is the flavor of the month.

I have to go on record here as saying I do not favor an outright ban on firearms ownership, even of semi-auto rifles like the AR-15. But they could be much more tightly regulated, given their destructive power. Age limits, licensing, etc., along with some more general provisions like red-flag laws, could do a lot toward making this country safer.

Sadly, a lot of what I'm seeing suggests that for many ideological purity is more important than actual progress.

[iemanja]

29. I observed the same thing

and it is disappointing.

[Jedi Guy]

37. It's extremely disappointing.

Apparently we don't want to "do something" if it might help the GOP in the midterms, and any lives that might have been saved by that "something" are expendable in the name of politics. That's not just disappointing, it's pretty disgusting.

[NickB79]

24. We're fighting about gun control just like we did for Build Back Better

We tried to pass one huge bill, instead of breaking it up into smaller bills that individually had a better chance of passing.

And it died in the Senate.

Don't make that mistake again.

[iemanja]

27. What larger bill are you talking about?

[NickB79]

31. Biden's proposal for gun control

https://www.npr.org/2022/06/02/1102660499/biden-gun-control-speech-congress

President Biden called on Congress to ban assault weapons or to raise the age to be able to buy one from 18 to 21 and other measures to curb gun violence in the United States in an address Thursday night.

"If we can't ban assault weapons then we should raise the age to purchase them from 18 to 21," Biden said.

He also called for a ban on high-capacity magazines, background checks, red flag laws and a repeal of the immunity that protects gun manufacturers from legal liability if their weapons are used in violence.

So yes, I realize this isn't a bill currently under consideration, but rather a wishlist. But my point was that bundling all of this in one possible bill, as many here at DU want, is a fool's errand.

Break it up and get something, or get nothing.

Red flag laws, enhanced background checks, 21 yr age limit, and even a magazine limit are all possible, today. They'd make an impact, today. Do it.

[iemanja]

33. Ok, I understand

I prefer a more expansive bill, but I also favor doing something over nothing.

[sarisataka]

30. Funny, a policy we have lobbied for

Even demanded is suddenly "piddling" and "bullshit".

So which of the gun control proposals we seek actually matter? Maybe focus on those instead of the bullshit ones

I can't understand why nothing is preferable to something.

[Thomas Hurt]

34. They are trying to placate the wingers who have come to their senses, before the mid-terms.

This bill will be shelved and never see Biden's desk if they win any majorities at the end of the year.

[msongs]

42. repubs will get a big PR boost while dems will get practically nothing included nt

[GoodRaisin]

43. And the Republican shootings will continue

by shooters that continue to buy assault weapons without a strong background check.