Why are we still using "defund" the police wording in posts here?

[CTyankee]

It is clearly NOT working on behalf of us. We are not getting the allies we had hoped to get.

I remember when we all had some reasonable alternative phrasings to offer. We should return to them. Repukes use it against us and we don't need that.

[brush]

1. Agreed. Alternative phrasing definitely needed.

Despite the appalling police failures in Uwalde, that phrase, as you said, is used against us and is a vote loser.

[FBaggins]

2. Where?

What I've seen recently has been almost exclusively used in criticism of the original concept - or to point out as you have here that it wasn't an effective slogan.

[CTyankee]

3. I just heard it in reference to a news story about another shooting taking place.

I thought it was odd that it was still being used (not just on Fox News).

[Thomas Hurt]

4. should have called it fiscal responsibility and smaller gov't, that is what the christofascists...

call it when they cut budgets, pensions, attack unions.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

5. Pretty sure I always use "abolish" in my posts, but maybe I should go back and check.

[CTyankee]

6. That's SO helpful.

[48656c6c6f20]

20. Eradicate, purge, dismember, flush the shit

Fire them, toss them out on their asses? Which do You prefer?

[maxsolomon]

7. You're using it, and who else is?

the Defund movement DGAF that you don't like their phrasing. It's not like they are actually defunding them, either.

[CTyankee]

11. It hands them a stick to beat us with, that's why I don't like it. It doesn't move the conversation

about all the guns in our lives, it stops them cold. It frightens people that we want to persuade. Why keep saying it?.

IMO, we are more successful when we point out better ways of using police resources. And other resources available.

[maxsolomon]

22. Who on DU keeps saying it?

I've seen virtually no one ON DU defending the phrase in the last year.

[CTyankee]

25. I saw it in a post recently and was surprised, hence this post.

I was taken aback because it is so RARE to see it here!

[maxsolomon]

26. It's a Liberal discussion board.

If we can't discuss the merits of the Defund concept here, where can we? Do we let our fear of GQP propaganda censor our debate?

There is a lot about the concept that is widely, one could say deliberately, misunderstood and dismissed out of hand on DU because of that one word. Most of DU can't see past it and the messaging damage it does to Democratic pols, 99% of whom don't support it.

“Defund the police” means reallocating or redirecting funding away from the police department to other government agencies funded by the local municipality. That’s it. It’s that simple. Defund does not mean abolish policing. And, even some who say abolish, do not necessarily mean to do away with law enforcement altogether. Rather, they want to see the rotten trees of policing chopped down and fresh roots replanted anew.

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/2020/06/19/what-does-defund-the-police-mean-and-does-it-have-merit/

[CTyankee]

36. Yes, and if you are explaining you are losing. Deaf ears to the "explanation."

It is best to avoid that exchange.

Better that we say at the outset that public safety is everyone's concern. Start there.

[maxsolomon]

37. I don't disagree.

It's a consistent dilemma for Liberals: asking voters to listen, contemplate, understand the position of experts or advocates, consider nuance...

Policy is hard. Shooting it down with soundbites is a craft that's been honed to an Art.

[Polybius]

15. Cori Bush is the only one of importance that I know of that still uses it

I don't know of anyone else, you are correct.

[maxsolomon]

23. Is she on DU?

Haven't noticed if she is.

[Polybius]

32. Oh you meant on DU?

Then there are several that still use it here.

[inthewind21]

35. Amen

[XanaDUer2]

8. Enhance the police? Nt

[AntivaxHunters]

9. FTP and ACAB

NWA was right.

"they think they have the authority to kill a minority!"

[Duncan Grant]

10. I think you overestimate the significance of DU.

There are so many things to discuss regarding the police: their unions, their white supremacy problem, their militarism, their corruption and dishonesty, their code of silence…

Seems to me those issues are more pressing than Democratic Party PR and messaging. To each, his or her own.

[CTyankee]

12. I agree. I only bring it up because it stops all conversation cold and we can't get to what you

enumerate are (and I agree) the significant problems with police. I'm just saying, as an old liberal, it isn't getting us where we want to go on police reforms.

[Duncan Grant]

28. I'm supportive of bold ethical principles rather than timid handholding.

Republicans are going to focus group every choice of words we make in order to delegitimize democrats. So, kick Lucy and not the football.

In other words, don’t surrender ground and undermine your constituency. Especially, in matters of justice.

[Demsrule86]

30. You would be wrong...DU is widely read and I often see stuff elsewhere that I know came from

here. Defunding the police is a big loser for us...no one should say it.

[Baitball Blogger]

13. I've been saying it for some time.

[LexVegas]

14. Agreed. It's stupid. nt

[awesomerwb1]

16. Idiotic and very counterproductive phrase. nt

[LetMyPeopleVote]

17. Defund the Police is a great way to help the GOP win races they should not win

I personally support reforms to the police. I worked hard and we got a good Democrat elected as District Attorney in my county two years ago and this cycle we got a good man elected as sheriff of my county. Our new DA has made a tremendous amount of difference in my county and I believe that the new Sheriff will also help. However, it is clear that we lost races that we should not have lost Defund the police was used very effectively by the GOP in down ballot races. A good number of races that Democrats should have won were lost due to this issue.

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

The GOP ran a ton of ads using this issue

Sure enough, Republicans saw an opportunity. Painting Democrats as supporters of “defunding” the police became the focus of campaign literature, TV and digital ads, and live televised debates. That forced Democratic candidates to divert resources that might otherwise be used discussing COVID-19 relief, health care or education to be used disavowing themselves from the slogan and otherwise defending themselves.

Out of 31 broadcast TV ads that Trump and other allied campaign groups used to attack Biden and other Democrats for being soft on law and order, 11 spots ― that aired a total of 77,647 times ― explicitly mentioned “defund the police,” according to an analysis Kantar Media/CMAG conducted for HuffPost. And out of 216 Republican broadcast TV ads in congressional races blasting Democrats, 157 spots that aired 103,000 times used the phrase.

I was disappointed to seen Susan Collins re-elected. It seems that Collins was able to use the "defund the police" issue very effectively

Sen. Susan Collins (R-Maine) and the GOP’s Senate campaign arm hit her Democratic opponent, Sara Gideon, in a TV ad for links to a “defund the police” billionaire. The basis for the ad was Gideon’s attendance at a fundraiser hosted by an environmental coalition that includes NextGen America. NextGen, funded by liberal billionaire Tom Steyer, supports defunding the police.

[Xolodno]

18. How about "Train the Police"

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-56834733

They obviously do not get enough in handling mental health crisis, community involvement, etc. They are basically taught to how to use a gun and use it as there only option for every problem.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

21. No. We don't need to train them.

We need to stop having them do jobs that they aren't needed to do. But, yeah, train them for their very limited role, too.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

19. "Defund the police is dead" and "Public Safety is our responsibility"

Link to tweet

[Cuthbert Allgood]

24. Fuck the police and the Republicans

They will use whatever we do against us. We need to stop trying to make a minority of the country happy and do what we think is right. We are told that we shouldn't talk about all kinds of things: universal health care, defund the police, blah blah blah. Most people support the things we stop talking about because it gives the Republicans something to talk about. Fuck them.

[Hav]

27. It's not only that repubs are using it against Dems

It's a stupid and highly unpopular slogan that is driving voters away, the repubs don't even need to do anything.

[Elessar Zappa]

29. Hardly any Dems are saying to defund the police.

[mvd]

31. I still defend the phrase

It was started by those more in the know than me. But I want to make clear it shouldn’t be universal. For example, Philly police need both more training/reform and funding.

[Gidney N Cloyd]

34. Some people here and elsewhere are digging their feet in even tho it was awful messaging.

For some reason some people think if the reader/listener doesn't understand what they really mean, they have no responsibility to make themselves as clear as possible. I don't know where they learned to write (and otherwise communicate) but it wasn't how I was taught.