Never seen this in a gun discussion

[Aviation Pro]

The 2A defenders often/always cite the amendment as a right given to them in the Constitution and therefore cancels out the right to safety. However, I've never seen someone bring up the unalienable right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness as written in the Declaration of Independence as a counter argument to the former's insipid logic.

Maybe it's time to start pushing the signers' intent of that document over the framers' one.

[MontanaMama]

1. Same for the abortion argument.

Forced birth negates a pregnant person’s unalienable right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

[CrispyQ]

3. Forced birth also violates a person's 13th Amendment rights. -nt

[MontanaMama]

24. It certainly does...

and I would expect the evangelical fascists would claim that forced birth would be punishment for the crime of having sex without the intent of having a child. These people are just that illogical. Your point, however, is a good one and my hope is that these are the arguments that will be brought forth in defending the right to abortion.

[EX500rider]

29. The reverse argument could be made also though

That abortion negates the unborns right to life.

[PTWB]

2. Lots of folks own guns and don't commit murder with them.

[Aviation Pro]

4. Me included

But I don’t think any amendment is a pure absolute.

[PTWB]

7. Nor do I.

I think common sense gun control is, well, common sense.

[MontanaMama]

25. And just not that common any more. n/t

[CaptainTruth]

23. +1

[boston bean]

8. Lots of folks do commit murder with them.

First graders, fourth graders, high schoolers, middle schoolers. Elderly. Church goers. Shoppers. Movie goers. Nightclubs.

And the list goes on and on.

I don’t care how many don’t murder. I care how many are committing mass murder and murder and what is going to be done about that?

[PTWB]

11. Indeed.

Many are murdered with guns. Many are murdered with other weapons, or no weapons at all. Many are killed by vehicles being driven by assholes with no regard for the safety of those around them.

I’m just not sure what point the OP was trying to make by quoting the passage from the Declaration of Independence.

No one has a constitutional right to commit murder.

[Brenda]

14. Yeah, right.

You know exactly what the OP is saying. Selling and owning unlimited numbers of modern weapons which have no other purpose than the ability to kill human beings quickly and in great numbers is what we are talking about.

[towerbum]

18. many commit murder with their mouth - sound familiar?

[groundloop]

26. Until they do.

I'm not sure where you're headed with your statement, and forgive me if I'm wrong, but it sounds just like a right wing justification for doing nothing.

Guns are the NUMBER 1 cause of death in the US among young people. If baseball injuries rose to that level you can bet that there'd be investigations galore figuring out how to make baseball safer. A lot more people used to die in automobile crashes before seat belts and air bags were mandated. The simple fact is that we can't just sit on our collective ass and accept excuses anymore.

[DetroitLegalBeagle]

5. The Declaration of Independence has no legal weight.

It has no legal standing or authority in our legal system. References have been made to parts of it in court, but no court has ever recognized it as a binding legal document.

[Aviation Pro]

10. As the document that declared independence from the monarchy

That should be revisited.

[sop]

27. How about the Preamble to the Constitution? The one that states very clearly:

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

"We the People" are supposed to "insure domestic tranquility" and "promote the general welfare." You can't have domestic tranquility or promote general welfare with a bunch of armed yahoos running around killing children, can you?

Gun fondlers are always harping on "originalism." The Preamble comes before the 2nd Amendment. You can't get any more original than that.

[DetroitLegalBeagle]

28. The Preamble has no legal powers

It's an introduction, it states the overall purpose of the Constitution. It does not give any powers or limitations to the government or define any rights. There is only one case that I know of where SCOTUS has directly addressed the Preamble of the Constitution. In Jacobson v Massachusetts, they said:

The United States does not derive any of its substantive powers from the Preamble of the Constitution. 

Future SCOTUS opinions could interpret the Preamble differently, but I highly doubt this current conservative one will, at least in any way that would be well liked.

[Lucid Dreamer]

6. Thread based on false premise.

AP> The 2A defenders often/always cite the amendment as a right given to them in the Constitution and therefore cancels out the right to safety.

That's a false statement. Get serious.

[Aviation Pro]

9. It's not

Go plumb the internet and you’ll find it.

[Lucid Dreamer]

12. Thank you for your advice.

You can find something in the internet pipes to prove anything.
So that doesn't prove anything...

[plimsoll]

15. No, that's pretty much what this article from the National review says.

No Magic fix for school shootings

You are correct, it's usually the quiet part, but the upshot from the NRA and the other gun rights groups has always been that there's just no way to prevent these killings without resorting to a Chinese style dictatorship with forced abortions and funny jackets required.

What is new is that it's a God given right. I suspect that if there's any push on the 2nd Amendment they'll start pushing that aspect.

[IronLionZion]

13. I never see the 9th amendment used for this either

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

2A does not give people the right to disparage other rights. People have a right to not be shot.

[Brenda]

16. Good idea

Right to life has been so horribly cornered by the Religious Nut Brigade.

[Jakes Progress]

17. Yeah, but...when does logic or honesty become a part of republican behavior?

[3Hotdogs]

20. Because the Declaration of Independence is not law. The Constitution is.

[judesedit]

21. Totally right

[SYFROYH]

22. You're hanging out in the wrong gun forum...rights are protected by the Constitution, not given.