"If you need an AR 15 to kill a deer, you ought to stick to fishing!"---Senator Richard Durbin,

[Atticus]

of Illinois.

That's MY Senator!

[Irish_Dem]

1. If my hobby's implements were involved in murdering school children, I'd find a new hobby.

Gun people need to start doing some soul searching.

[TigressDem]

2. LOL

[llashram]

3. The RW

is just arming their minions here in America for what they think about Civil War 2 coming. I just hope and these days, yes pray, our leadership will handle the extreme rightwing trump cult out here.

[Zeitghost]

4. These statements, while well intentioned

Fall flat with anyone who understands or later comes to find out that an AR is generally considered underpowered for deer...


We will be better positioned to pass meaningful reform when we better understand the topic. This is something the gunsplaining police need to consider.

[Woodswalker]

7. Tired of having

To be an expert on firearms, balistics , calibers, and all the bullshit gun Nutters use to divert and change the subject with. Yes the AR-15 is 5.56 mm and too small for deer but I think Americans are past the point of semantics when dealing with gun Nutters. Sorry, assault weapons are designed to slaughter humans efficiently and fast

[Atticus]

23. Well said. Thanks. nt

[Zeitghost]

33. If you want to ban something

And you aren't familiar with the design elements you're using to base the legislation banning it on, you will fail. Just look at the CA AWB and then look at the AR's for sale in every CA gun shop.

The gun industry continues to engineer solutions to the laws we do manage to pass because most people don't want to be bothered to educate themselves.

[Happy Hoosier]

56. Then get used to losing.

It's simple. Many gun nuts have convinced themselves that Libruls have no business bannin' gunz cuz they don;t even know anything about 'em!

When our side demonstrates such a misunderstanding, it hardens their positions.

There are those of us who support restrictions that DO understand the weapons at a technical level. Why not listen to us and learn a thing?

And often it ISN'T just semantics. STUPID ideas get perpetuated by people who have no technical understanding of the weapon or how it functions. Things like banning flash hiders, or bayonet lugs, or pistol grips of adjustable stocks.... largely irrelevant to the function of the weapon. The things that matter boil down to two things: Semiautomatic operation and the ability to use and rapidly change high-capacity magazines. That's pretty much it. That's combination makes these very deadly weapons.

[Shanti Shanti Shanti]

10. Ayep...good ol .30-30 Winchester is more powerful than puny little .223, for deer, lol

[Happy Hoosier]

53. "puny little .223"

No offense, but that's an uninformed comment.

Have you heard what that "puny little .223" did to those kids?

That's because that "puny little .223" can be DEVASTING to living flesh with some cartridge designs.

the .223 has been used effectively for hunting for a long time. It has a number of advantages for hunting over the .30-30 But that is besides the point.

Don't talk down the effectiveness of the 5.56mm round. It can be very, very deadly, as we have seen. And people need to think of it as very, very deadly. If it is a "puny little" round, then why on earth would we want to ban the AR-15? Right?

[Shanti Shanti Shanti]

59. The .223 is a very poor round for deer, better suited for varmint hunting, period

At 100 yards they wont do the job.

Any center fire rifle can kill a human at 10 feet. Thats not real world deer hunting.

[Happy Hoosier]

61. With all due respect....

The 5.56 mm will kill a deer at 100 yrds EASILY if the right ammo is used and the shooter does his job. Like I said, I do not hunt, but I know hunters and one prefers the 5.56mm and is very successful with it.

I don't think we should play down the lethality of this cartridge.

[Atticus]

12. I do understand that, but I have heard more than one AR 15 "enthusiast" tout it as a

"deer gun".

It is a military style weapon designed to be an efficient killer of human beings. Short of outright warfare, there is no reason anyone "needs" an AR 15, especially with numerous 30-round magazines. They should be outlawed---period.

Also, most deer hunters don't need body armor either.

[PTWB]

22. ARs can be chambered in many different calibers

Including popular calibers for deer hunting that you’d typically find in more traditional bolt action hunting rifles. It makes no bit of difference to the deer if they’re harvested with a .308 fired from a bolt action or an AR.

[Atticus]

42. Of course they are available in different calibers, from 308s and 45s to 22WMRs. But,

most think of the 223 when an "AR 15" is mentioned since that is how---what?---98% are chambered. ( To most, the .223 and 5.56 are synonymous. )

And, while a deer killed with a 308 round from a bolt action may be just as dead as one from an AR, he is much less likely to have been taken with the "spray and pray" method.

[PTWB]

44. Rapid semi-automatic fire is almost never used when hunting.

About the only time I’ve seen it is for feral hog eradication. Never deer hunting, even with semi-automatics like the classic Browning BAR, pictured below.

[Kingofalldems]

50. Ahhh, gun porn.

[DVRacer]

51. My Dad has that exact one

His “BAR” was made by Remington though very similar Luepold scope as well.

[Happy Hoosier]

57. The AR-15 is decent, if not great deer rifle with the right ammo.

BUT.... ya don't need all the AR-15's features for one. In particular you do NOT need easily changable high-capacity magazines, which let's face it, is what makes these things killing machines.

[Phoenix61]

13. Seems some hunters feel otherwise.

https://www.nrahlf.org/articles/2018/4/14/my-favorite-hunting-rifles-all-start-with-ar/

[kcr]

25. You should take it up with all the "hunters"

who claim otherwise.

[SYFROYH]

5. Sigh...

Maybe he meant that hunters should size up with a .308 or 30-06 for those big ol' IL White Tail Deer.

'

[madville]

14. Yeah, 5.56/.223 is a small round for deer

The .243 WIN round is usually about the smallest you see people deer hunting with around here. Most use something larger like .270, .308 or .30-06 though.

Hunting rifles are limited to 5 round magazines here so even if someone did legally use their AR-15 for deer hunting, it’d really be no more or less effective than most other semi-automatic rifles as far as function or capacity.

[SYFROYH]

16. You are exactly correct.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

20. Exactly!!!!! nt

[Happy Hoosier]

54. The main advantages of the 5.56/.223 for hunting...

is that it has a very flat trajectory and low recoil, which allows for fast, reasonably accurate follow-up shots, should one be necessary.

I'm not a hunter, but I do know many. And the ones that prefer the 5.56 prefer it for those reasons.

[madville]

62. That's why it makes sense for coyotes and hogs

Varmint or nuisance coyote and hog hunters might need rapid follow up shots on multiple targets. Deer hunters are usually making a single shot, maybe two, and only taking one deer at a time.

[Hangingon]

52. Thought IL was a shotgun state fr deer

[sarisataka]

60. It appears they are changing the law

Starting this year rifles will be allowed. The minimum will be .30 caliber so the typical AR 15 would not be allowed.

[Woodswalker]

9. Absolutely

Gun Nutters will argue that the 5.56 is an efficient deer round

[SYFROYH]

15. For small GA deer and hogs they are fine. Coyotes too.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

17. 5.56?

AR-15's don't use 5.56, they use .223, the 5.56 round is not safe to use in the AR-15, whereas the .223 can be safely used in the M-16/M-4 battle rifles and I've yet to meet anyone that hunts deer with an AR-15 chambered for the .223 round, it's under powered, most states ban the use of the .223 round for hunting deer.

The .223 round is ideal for hunting the wild hogs here in AZ, also ideal for predator control.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

27. I didn't say they couldn't be used,

I said it's not safe to use the 5.56 round in an AR-15, the 5.56 round is a hotter load than the .223 and could potentially cause a catastrophic failure.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

31. Well, that's a new one on me,

I haven't picked up a rifle since my retirement from the Corps, zero desire to shoot anyone or anything, and I sold my .45 awhile back, just didn't see the need for any firearm in my home or my trucks.
Have a great evening.

[madville]

32. You're partially correct

Yes, you can shoot .223 REM in a rifle chambered in 5.56 NATO but should NEVER shoot 5.56 NATO in a rifle chambered for .223 REM.

But most civilian AR-15’s are chambered in 5.56 NATO though so it’s safe to shoot both. Best thing to do is always check the barrel of the firearm, it will be stamped with the caliber, either 5.56 NATO or .223 REM in this case.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

38. I stand corrected.

Thanks for the info, like I said up thread, I haven't touched a rifle since my retirement.

[madville]

41. Most rifles chambered specifically in .223 REM

Are going to be bolt action hunting or target shooting rifles. There are plenty of stories though of someone attempting to shoot a 5.56 NATO round in a .223 chambered rifle, most likely result would be the casing getting stuck in the chamber since it’s slightly larger, can be a pain to get out.

Yeah, I haven’t messed with many non-hunting type guns since I retired from the military either, had to maintain current rifle and pistol qualifications all the way up until my last two years though.

[Happy Hoosier]

55. Your data is outdated.

The vast majority of AR-15's sold on the market today are rated to fire 5.56mm (higher pressure) ammo.

The days of AR's that shoot only .223 are largely well behind us.

I do own an AR-15 (been in the safe for years now.... the by-product of a job years ago). It's a Colt AR-15. Marked for 5.56 mm ammo right on the receiver.

[NickB79]

8. Semiautomatic rifles have been used for hunting for 100 years

The difference is, they used 3-5 round magazines. The best hunter I know uses a Browning BAR in 7mm Remington Magnum. She bags big deer every year around Duluth every fall.

An AR-15 is a perfectly fine rifle for hunting, if chambered in a decent cartridge (5.56mm is iffy; .350 Legend is much better). Just get rid of the high capacity magazines.

[madville]

18. Here in FL, magazines can't be more than 5 rounds

For hunting rifles. That applies to any hunting rifle, AR included. I have a semi-auto Browning BAR .243 that has taken well over 100 deer in the last 50 years, it was my uncle’s and now mine, best hunting rifle ever made in my opinion.

[samnsara]

19. most hunters i know dont want the deer carcess blown up :/

[MarineCombatEngineer]

24. That is a myth,

a .223 round will not tear up the flesh anymore than a .243 round, or a .270 round.

[Elessar Zappa]

30. One of the doctors who saw the children's corpses

said that two of the children were literally decapitated by the AR15 used in this massacre.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

35. Not to be gross,

but it would take several .223 rounds to decapitate a human head from the body, I know this because I witnessed it in Vietnam.

[Elessar Zappa]

37. I'm not sure how it happened but that's what the doctor told Congress.

I see no reason to think he’s lying.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

39. I seriously doubt he's lying,

but did he say it was one round or several rounds?

Like I said, I know what a 5.56 round will do to a human body and taking off a head with one 5.56 round is just not true unless the round was modified to explode on impact, which I doubt that POS had.

Anyways, I think I'll bow out of this convo.

Have a great evening.

[sarisataka]

40. Medically the term decapitation

Does not always mean the head is literally removed from the body.

An internal decapitation means the skull is separated from the spine and there have been cases of people surviving such injury thought it is usually fatal.

[NickB79]

43. It's possible the shooter was using polymer tip bullets

Great for varmints because the plastic tip essentially covers a giant hollow point, and the bullet violently expands on impact. There's a reason prairie dog shooters call it "red mist" when they score a hit, or why there's a 5.56mm bullet literally named Varmint Grenade.

Those would be the only bullets that could possibly take off someone's head in that caliber. Especially a small head, like a child's 😞

[PTWB]

28. Do you think the .223 is tipped with some sort of explosive charge?

The .223, which is the common AR chambering, is an underpowered and anemic round for most deer hunting. While it is quite possible to harvest deer, even ethically, with a .223, one must combine a supremely accurate rifle, excellent knowledge of a deer’s anatomy, and a knowledge of terminal ballistics in order to choose an appropriately constructed bullet.

There are many backpackers who use lightweight bolt action rifles chambered in .223 (the same round people incorrectly claim will “blow up” a deer) to successfully and ethically fill up their freezers with venison every year.

I wouldn’t recommend the .223 as a go to deer cartridge for novice hunters but it’s a fine choice for experts. Novice hunters should go for a more powerful round and practice, practice, practice.

[sarisataka]

36. Have you ever heard what it can do to a hog?

[Stuart G]

26. That is My Senator Too.!!!..K and R

[uncle ray]

45. i dunno. have you seen what an AR does to a FISH?

[albacore]

46. Mods..... if this video violates something, just delete it...

Here's part of a Youtube video from an ammosexual testing 3 different bullet types from an AR on pork shoulders.
I hate to dispute a fellow Marine, but MarineCombatEngineer is wrong on this one. I suspect the modified bullets are to blame, but there is no way to describe the damage other than catastrophic.

&t=121s

[MarineCombatEngineer]

49. I'll concede that my experience is when the 5.56 round was relatively new,

Last edited Thu Jun 30, 2022, 12:17 AM - Edit history (1)

like back in the '60's, so I'm not up to speed on the modern ammo used in civilian life, but my experience during the SE Asia games is that a single 5.56 round would not remove a human head from a body.

Semper Fi Devil Dog.

[albacore]

58. Same observation here. Messy, but not like in that video. nt

[ck4829]

47. K&R