Can the DU Wet Blanket Brigade give it a brief respite for now?

[Tommy Carcetti]

Maybe you're right.

Maybe the hearings won't amount to a hill of beans.

But let's just have them first, okay?

Plenty of time to judge later. But let's sit down and take it in before anything else.

Is that too much to ask?

[pwb]

1. I am not seeing that too much yet. I will

have to sign out to see them.

[Cha]

29. lol.. that's why I haven't

seen it!

💙💛

[Iggo]

89. Make sure you start from the bottom and go up.

I’ve made the mistake of starting from the top. You end up missing a bunch of ‘em.

[FarPoint]

2. I totally agree....

Last edited Fri Jun 10, 2022, 12:26 AM - Edit history (2)

Keeps me away from DU essentially....the typical poster tends to call it "sarcasm" when called out or asked to clarify....

Such posts are damaging to moral of all of us who cherish DU....


Sometimes they feel like imbedded trolls....who knows....I would not be surprised.

[BlackSkimmer]

9. Do you mean "morale"?

And how does a post you don't agree with "damage you" in any way?

I frequently see posts that I don't agree with, but I don't feel "damaged" in the least bit.

[FarPoint]

43. Your smart.

A well known and respected poster....you understand.

[BlackSkimmer]

44. Oh dear. nt

[Bernardo de La Paz]

67. "Your smart."? Your? . . . . nt

[FarPoint]

68. Are you trying to tell me something?

Ask me nicely ....

[sheshe2]

94. ;)

[CrackityJones75]

63. It is funny how every time it is brought up.....

Yet a moth to that flame.

Every. Single. Time.

[FarPoint]

70. Please share...

Enlighten fellow posters...please.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

64. Wet blankets discouraging activism and voting are damaging to all. Not about disagreements. . . . nt

[ShazzieB]

66. Damaging "morale" is not the same thing as damage to an individual.

This question sounds extremely disingenuous to me, but what the hell...

One definition of morale is "the amount of confidence and cheerfulness that a group of people have." Source: https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/english/morale

There is such a thing as individual morale also, but I think we're talking about group morale in this case.

If constant "wet blanket" posts about things like the presumed uselessness of the hearings; the presumed incompetence, indecisiveness, etc., of Merrick Garland; the presumption that our democracy is already dead; the presumption that neither TFG nor those who helped him mastermind the coup will ever be held accountable for their misdeeds; etc., etc. do not have a negative effect on your personal morale, well, that's nice for you, I guess. But I can assure you that they DEFINITELY have an impact on the morale of many of us here, and therefore that of the group as a whole.

Believe it not, some of us would rather NOT have a bucket of cold water thrown in our faces every time we try to discuss these topics.

[stopdiggin]

90. in a nutshell.

the idea that we don't have such voices here - or that everyone isn't aware of them ... hardly a contentious starting point it would seem.
----- -----

[wnylib]

77. +1000

[Binkie The Clown]

4. You have the option to ignore them. nt

[Wednesdays]

5. Or alert on them, if it's bad enough.

[FarPoint]

51. I sense many are on edge lately due to the 1/6 Hearings starting tonight.

I feel the tension and intolerance when reading posts...The knit picky gammar Nazi behavior has been up front...that's a clue ....

Just realize folks.. typing on a smart phone is not uniformly designed ..

[PatSeg]

71. Seriously?

[ShazzieB]

117. If something is alert worthy, I don't hesitate to alert on it.

But the posts we're talking about seldom meet the criteria for that.

I have started putting a few people on ignore, though. I try to reserve that for only the most extreme cases (constant, multiple posts of a certain nature), but I can't always remember who said what from one day to the next. Also, a lot of people's posts are a mixed bag. I don't necessarily want to ignore someone completely just because they said something that annoyed me once.

Byt "ignore" can definitely be a good option sometimes.

[Tommy Carcetti]

6. I'm not calling anyone out by name for that reason.

But not like I can't ignore that the posts are there.

It's just a simple request. Probably will fall on deaf ears.

[ancianita]

12. Totally with you, Tommy, even if I don't see one. There are the doubters, but everyone's tired, so

there's that.

These hearings are not just for Americans. They are for the Congressional Record, and become part of America's official history.

People ought to watch them to see an historical event alone, nevermind that it's the biggest hearing in U.S. history.

[LakeArenal]

7. Apparently some are saying they have them on ignore already.

[soldierant]

73. A bucket of cold water is difficult to ignore.

I realize a post iis not the same thing as a bucket of cold water ... but if anyone feels it is ... I myself am not in the business of telling people how they "should" feel.

[LakeArenal]

8. Colbert made a "joke" about Biden's polls being worse than Boris Johnson.

The audience negative reaction surprised reaction Colbert. I’m glad. His Biden jokes are old and not funny.

[badhair77]

59. Good to hear. I'm tired of it, too.

[wnylib]

119. I stopped watching Colbert after his

his critique of Biden over the Afghanistan withdrawal. If I wanted the Republican view, I could go to their sites. He could have gone after Trump for creating the necessity to leave like we did since Trump turned over the country to the Taliban before Biden got into office. But he chose to make cheap, shallow digs at Biden instead.

Besides, Jimmy Kimmel and Trevor Noah are much funnier and more insightful. Colbert comes across to me as canned.

[LakeArenal]

126. I think Colbert is funnier but not his politics.

Both be and Jon Stewart did not vote for Biden and they have discussed it on air.

[Doc Sportello]

136. Here's a video of Colbert celebrating Biden's win

&t=36s

Where did you get the idea he didn't vote for Biden and can you link to that supposed clip of him saying so?

[GoodRaisin]

140. +1

[FoxNewsSucks]

10. What about the DU Pollyanna Brigade? Can they take off their blinders and rose-colored glasses?

[Laura PourMeADrink]

91. Lol! Just brilliant!!!

[brooklynite]

11. Anything else we shouldn't discuss in advance?

Primary elections?

Trial Verdicts?

DOJ Indictments?

[msongs]

14. I, for one, do not wish to hear about the benefits of a low salt diet lol

then again mine was so efficient my Dr. told me to eat more salt cuz I was running low

[Treefrog]

18. Oh yes.

We need a list!

[SoonerPride]

13. You are free to trash any threads you don't like.

[LakeArenal]

15. In the end it's just negative speculation. Sometimes they coach it as "reality"

There are just negative people that will never be satisfied. They deride positivity by positive people as “Pollyanna”. The call being a fan of someone as asskissing. They make a statement they don’t agree with personal. They like to say “ calm down little Missy” when you feel strongly about something.

They appear on here. They are always the same characters. So learn to expect it from them. It’s their schtick.

[Treefrog]

19. Please link to "calm down little missy".

I’ve never seen that here.

[BlackSkimmer]

24. I've been here a lot longer than you or that poster, and I've never seen a post like that.

I would imagine it would be removed quite quickly.

[edhopper]

99. Hear, hear

Been here since Bush, and I get lectured by people who joined 10 years later about how I should act here.

[PortTack]

32. Agree!! And it is the same ppl over and over...

[Silent3]

74. "Coach" it as?

You are "fragrantly" abusing the English language!

[McKim]

115. After Decades of Bashing.....

After decades of hard bashing from The Right Wing in this country, Democrats are acting like battered wives, hopeless and negative in their outlooks. We are the reasonable majority in this country as signaled by the last presidential election and by the committee hearings. Let's stand up and act like it!

[Lucid Dreamer]

16. I don't like any posts that say "I don't like" in it!

...oh... never mind.

[Celerity]

20. Lol, well played

[calimary]

23. LOL!

Thanks! Kinda need stuff like that, nowadays!

[sprinkleeninow]

112. Hear! Here!

I did dat on porpoise.
😝

[Chainfire]

17. So the OP is asking people to curb their opinions because they are offended by what is written?

Who does that sound like?

[summer_in_TX]

27. Nope, just their pre-judging.

Pre-judging is tiresome and basically fills up the space with negative speculation…speculation that wears one out instead of being hopeful. Quite all right to be the pessimistic type, but please realize it wears on many and maybe is best kept to oneself. We're a community and we want to make it a place where we all enjoy being.

Also, we are all dealing with various amounts of anxiety (meaning we're a bit on edge) and it'd be helpful (not to mention kind) to tamp back on pessimistic comments.

[Chainfire]

78. Well, I suppose that I should just put my little ole blinders on and follow the happy pack down the

golden path to political paradise. It really disgusts me when someone, pretending to be a progressive, tries to dictate what kinds of opinions that others should be, or should not be posting. Perhaps people should run their opinions by you before posting? Would you like to edit my thoughts too? If you are on edge, take a chill pill, but stay off of other peoples backs.

[edhopper]

101. And what is saying

Garland will indict Trump and Dems will take Congress and the Senate if not speculation and prejudging?

[PortTack]

38. If posters would say this my opinion instead of cutting ppl off. Behaving as if their opinion means

More than someone else’s. It’s rude. Would that be so HARD??!!

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

97. So, each post on DU needs to include a statement saying, "This opinion I'm posting is my opinion"?

Seriously?

How about we all save time & energy and just assume that very obvious point?

[PortTack]

105. Here's the thing. When I post something that doesn't have a back up link..ppl say links please

which is fair. Ppl want to know is this just my opinion or is it actual truth. Isn’t this how rumor and innuendo get started after all?

Ppl here complain a LOT about broadcasters “giving their opinions” rather than just reporting the news. Can’t have it both ways.

Get it?

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

106. You're joking, right? Or, you fail to grasp the obvious difference between someone on a discussion

board posting their own opinion, based on various pieces of information, personal knowledge, experience & outlook, etc., which no reasonable person expects could be proven by "a link" vs someone posting something and claiming it as a fact, for which a link can be reasonably expected.

As for broadcasters giving their opinions on events in the news vs just reporting the news, again, but in a different way, two different things. Some people are interested in hearing just one or the other of those two. And some want to hear the facts and the opinions. And any given person may want different coverage depending on the topic.

[PortTack]

109. I will POLITELY point out that you are entitled to your opinion!!! GEEZ

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

110. Copout.

You are dismissed.

[PortTack]

125. Ahh... So you point out that you are entitled to your opinion, but that I am not. "I am dismissed."

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

138. Keep on talking to yourself.

Nothing you've said has any more than a vague connection to what I've said here.

[PortTack]

139. Once again ....your opinion

[betsuni]

111. In my opinion, yes. I find I have to preface everything I say with In my opinion/I think/Seems like/

Maybe/I wonder and so on, otherwise people get offended and angry. I hate that I do it, but it saves time and trouble. A lot of people don't understand generalizations, the difference between opinions and facts. Feeling over thinking. They also don't understand quotes.

If I said that medium salsa is better than hot salsa, or that cats are better than dogs, it wouldn't be seen as the obvious opinion it is. No, I'd be accused of wanting to rip the hot salsa out of everyone's hands and throw it in the trash, of hating puppies, of telling everyone what to do. I don't know, some people can just come out and say things and it's fine, but I can't. In my opinion.

[brooklynite]

98. Please provide an example of someone "behaving as if their opinion means more than someone else's"

[Cozmo]

21. There area lot of posts on DU that appear on a daily basis and don't appeal to a vast audience

Whatsoever!

[samnsara]

25. it will make a hard copy for history if nothing else

[lunatica]

26. It will be an invaluable historical documentation

of a pivotal moment in our country’s journey.

[BlackSkimmer]

28. Is it too much to ask people not to give their opinion on any particular post? Yes, it is too much

to ask because this is a "discussion board." See how that works?

This type OP used to be called a "meta" post.

Unrec.

[paleotn]

37. Nothing will ever get better. Nothing. Ever. NO ONE will ever be held accountable for anything...

Ever, ever, ever. We're all fucked. Fucked, I tell you. Fucked. Fuuuuuuuuucked!!!!!!

For some that's their default right out of the gate, actual evidence to support such a position be damned. That's not discussion. That's borderline on pathological. Or it's agenda driven.

[CrackityJones75]

100. This right here.

[edhopper]

103. Trump isn't no one

And that is the only one who matters.

[ShazzieB]

116. If DU had a "like" button for comments

I would be clicking it with alacrity right now.

[Kingofalldems]

118. I pick agenda driven.

[PortTack]

40. Yes, maybe it is too much, but ppl need to be respectful and say THIS IS MY OPINION!!

[BlackSkimmer]

47. Surely you do understand that anything anyone posts here is an OPINION.

It's a discussion board; do you really need that disclaimer on every post?

Damn, this place has changed so much. Smh.

[PortTack]

83. And what would be the harm in saying this is my opinion. JMHO, MHO something just to be respectful

[USALiberal]

55. +1000

[LetMyPeopleVote]

30. Thank you for this request

I will be watching tonight and intend to review the facts with an open mind

[paleotn]

31. Can't say I disagree.....

A few here have severe cases of Eeyore Syndrome. Or some kind of agenda. You be the judge.

[crimycarny]

33. JFC

Just looking at all the snark to those who disagree with the OP, or to those who agree with the OP, is why the Dems have a messaging problem. I've never seen a group that splits hairs so much and gets stuck in minutiae.

I know, I know. I should just keep my mouth shut and "ignore the thread". But it does get annoying from time to time seeing all the bickering over sh*t that doesn't matter.

"If you don't like it why post the thread? This is a "discussion" board after all"

"Well the OP is right, I get tired of the negativity"

"Who says it's negativity? It's just people being honest"

blah blah blah blah.

No wonder we can't ever get anything done.

[Iggo]

88. You're right. This thread is a valuable resource. Thanks, OP.

[2 Meow Momma]

34. A-friggin-men! nt

[sarcasmo]

35. The Debbie Downer brigade.

[PortTack]

41. ☝️☝️☝️☝️☝️

[Chainfire]

79. Perhaps you should share all of the great news on the social and political scene lately, apparently

some of us haven't been privy to it.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

146. +1

[Pyryck]

36. Please excuse the Newbie here, but...

Every single forum I have ever read or posted on/in over the last 30+yrs ONLY had rules about what topics were allowed in which discussion forums along with simple, civilized, behavioral standards. As a reader I was able to pick and choose what I might want to read and what I did read and what I ignored.

I so hope that is the case here as I continue to get my feet and ears wet around here.

[PatSeg]

72. Welcome to DU!

Most members are very reasonable and easy to get along with.

[Beastly Boy]

39. A voice of reason? I must be dreaming!

Then again, you must admit, it is not half as much fun to comment on something that actually happened. Reality severely limits your options for creative discourse, and the "I hope I am wrong, and I will be the first one to apologize if I am" routine kind of loses its punch.

[DFW]

42. Hear, hear!

But I put posts like that in with titles blaring about corporatists, capitalism, billionaires and Loren Boebert as next Speaker of the House.

I looked, and lo, and behold, there ARE more immediate things with which to occupy one's thoughts.

[Warpy]

45. I yhink people are just afraid there won't be anything they haven't already read on DU

and that may very well be the case and that's really OK. Very few people out in TV land have read about it on DU.

I lived through Watergate.. I was in a city with left wing tabloid newspapers so when the Watergate hearings started, I knew there would be little I hadn't already read about and there wasn't. That would have to wait decades until Nixon's tapes came out.

However, what those hearings did was pull Nixon's poll numbers (which were higher than TFG's) down to 24% by the time he called it quits to preserve his pension.

So while these hearings are not likely to produce brass bands and fireworks for regular readers of DU, they will produce results for the people who are not. We're not the target audience. The people who might not have kept up are.

[edhopper]

48. The hearings brought out the White House Tapes

we knew Nixon was a crook, but when that was revealed it was all she wrote.

[Warpy]

54. Yes, but they were kept hidden for decades until long after he and much of his gang were dead.

which was almost as big a mistake as not prosecuting the bastard.

[edhopper]

46. Speaking as one of the

"wet blankets" it's not that I don't think the hearings will produce damning evidence against Trump and the Republicans. I think not enough Americans will care. And the voters that need to be reach won't be.

And if you can call those of us who see a darker reality these days. Can I call all those who think every top official including Trump will be indicted the Rainbow Pony Squad?

[BlackSkimmer]

49. Lol.

Well said.

[paleotn]

80. Only if we can call you....

[edhopper]

81. I usually get

Debbie Downer

[paleotn]

82. Eeyore is much more cuddly.

[mcar]

50. I predict much wailing

and gnashing of teeth by 8:10 tonight because the committee didn't do/say/show whatever.

[CrackityJones75]

102. You were correct!

Now I gotta pourmeadrink.

[Joinfortmill]

52. Amen.

[USALiberal]

53. It's a discussion board, people discuss

[sop]

56. Has it ever occurred to you that the critics who strongly express skepticism of the legal process

could be the sort of motivation the DOJ finally needs to prosecute Trump? Garland has been under intense political pressure from the left for months to actually do something. One could argue that IF the decision is finally reached to prosecute Trump, it's due to the DU Wet Blanket Brigade's relentless kvetching. If that happens, we'll have accomplished our goal.

[wnylib]

122. ?? Does Garland read DU daily?

[Kingofalldems]

57. You mean the 'Trump always wins' taunters?

[Torchlight]

58. I pretty much ignore all political prophets.

On this website and in the colorful world. Far too tedious and wearisome for me to give any credibility to.

It's one of the top three reasons we don't have cable... too many people pretend they know what will or will not happen, but at least the heads on cable getting paid to pretend, so many others don't have that same excuse.

Analysis is always a good look. Bouncing ideas is more often than not, a good practice.
Pretending we know the future? Not such a good look.

[Stuart G]

60. I often say..."This is my opinion" You can check it out if you want.

And this is the truth too...Yes, facts are facts, & opinion are opinions.

..

[Kablooie]

61. I don't want to get my hopes up. They've been shattered every single time before.

So I don't expect much but I would be delighted to be surprised.

[CrackityJones75]

62. Fucking-A!

Right?

[IronLionZion]

65. I often wonder how many are trolls vs legit clinical depression or anxiety

[BlackSkimmer]

121. So you think it's fine to insult people who disagree with you?

Trolls or clinical depression/anxiety? The only possibilities, eh?

Nice.

[IronLionZion]

124. I prefer positive attitude and optimism

it's way more productive during an election year.

[Chainfire]

128. So a positive attitude means that anyone with opposing opinions is either

mentally ill or a troll? That they should not offend you by sharing their opinions? How do you square that with being a "progressive?"

[IronLionZion]

129. I don't know what you're talking about but good luck with that

[Chainfire]

130. Just responding to your words,

" I often wonder how many are trolls vs legit clinical depression or anxiety"

I see that you don't wish to defend them. That is fine, I understand.

[IronLionZion]

131. I'm glad you understand

[BlackSkimmer]

137. Thank you.

Smh.

[H2O Man]

69. Recommended.

Thank you!

[Stinky The Clown]

75. We're making a big bowl of "Hopeful Popcorn" to munch while we watch.

[nolabear]

76. A-Flipping-Men!

I love history and politics and no matter what this is a BFD! Don’t rain on my parade.

[Cha]

84. Good, lots of Recs!

💙💛

[orangecrush]

85. My thoughts exactly

Thanks,Tommy.

[Martin68]

86. So many on DU blame the media for everything (just like the GOP), but it looks like

we are just as guilty of downplaying good news and spreading negative propaganda.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

93. ?? Spreading negative propaganda? Where? Here ?

[Patton French]

87. You mean the DU reality,

not lock-step brigade? Maybe, we'll see.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

92. Sorry but IF we who believe & hope to capture MORE

votes are trying to censor those who are trying to express what it might take to do this, it sucks!

Have no idea how we accomplish that if we are in a hallelujah chorus?

[wnylib]

123. How do you do it from a position of

"All is lost and we are doomed"?

[Laura PourMeADrink]

133. Who is feeling that? Anyone that questions what and how we're doing something is a doom and gloome

Yikes.

That would never ever fly in the business world in a million years. You never want to stop improving!! It actually could mean you care more than someone who just says everything is wonderful everybody is wonderful all the time.

[wnylib]

135. Please show me where I said:

Last edited Sun Jun 12, 2022, 01:07 AM - Edit history (1)

"Anyone that questions what and how we're doing is a doom and gloome" (sic)

I don't see it in my post. Maybe because I don't think it, much less post it. So I don't I know where you are getting this hyperbolic interpretation of my post from.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

141. ??? You just referred to the position of doom and gloom

[wnylib]

145. But not in reference to

"Anyone who questions how we're doing."

Questioning whether an action or stated policy is the right way to go is not doom and gloom. Disagreeing with a policy or action is not doom and gloom.

Doom and gloom, IMO, is claiming to know what it is not possible to know yet, stating it as fact, and then projecting, as fact, disastrous outcomes that cannot be prevented because all actions are futile.

I am just as aware as most DU posters, that the country is in a precarious situation due to Republican obstructionism, attacks on voting rights, politically biased Supreme Court, the J6 insurrection, and their continued, persistent and belligerent push to control government to represent the minority of hard right Americans. I know that democracy, or the "soul of America," as Biden puts it, is at stake.

But the doom and gloom posts that I am referring to (not necessarily yours specifically) are the ones that claim that the country is already lost, that we are "f'd" and cannot turn things around. And the claim, as absolute fact, that Garland is doing nothing and will do nothing in regard to the crimes of Trump, his former advisors, and his allies in Congress. And the claims that the J6 hearings are useless, that protests against gun violence are useless, that protests against overturning Roe are futile, etc.

Those are "doom and gloom" comments because they discourage activism and create an atmosphere of hopelessness. And that is exactly what our opponents would like us to feel - that all is lost so give up the fight now and accept authoritarian RW rule.

There is a huge difference between acknowledging that things are grim and therefore we must act and find solutions versus saying that things are grim and therefore hopeless. It is easy to complain. It is more challenging to seek and act on solutions.

In 2020, I feared that Republican harrassment of voters and of Democratic campaign workers (like running them off of roads) would suppress Dem votes. I feared that there would be violence at polls. I feared that, even if Biden won, he might have a Republican Senate with Massacre Mitch in control of it. But instead of assuming the worst because of those fears, I placed hope in and support of campaigns like the ones in Georgia that, against the odds, ended up giving us control of the Senate. Slim control, yes, but better than having Massacre Mitch as majority leader.

I feared also that Trump would reject losing, and call his supporters to violence. I posted that, as a possibility to prepare for, not as an assumption that he would actually succeed in overturning the election. So I am not opposed to acknowledging possible threats and facing them realistically. I am only opposed to giving in to assumptions that the worst will happen and that therefore we can do nothing about it.

[edhopper]

104. Some of us said

Last edited Fri Jun 10, 2022, 06:27 AM - Edit history (1)

Manchin and Simena were scuttling Biden's agenda, and told we were negative noise and to shut up. How did that work our.
What about election reform being stopped? What about throwing cold water on those who saw the Supreme Court being expanded.
What about those who knew sweared we would get a super majority in the House and Senate last election?
All that happy talk is fine, but bringing things down to earth, and you are told to go away.
Sometimes reality has a negative bias.

[patricia92243]

107. I agree with you when on another post you said, "I'll say what I want to say." n/t

[Laura PourMeADrink]

143. Exactly!

[NCLefty]

108. Maybe you can make a list of people that are allowed to weigh in along with the rest of the public.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

144. +1

[Snoopy 7]

113. yep

When my Grandson and I swore into the military we swore to protect the CONSTITUTION not to a person who wants to overthrow the official legal decision that the AMERICAN people had made. We voted for Joe Biden NOT donald trump. I have always believed trump had to overthrow the new President because he knew he would get indicted for one of his many crimes. trump knew there was evidence to his crimes and he wanted to "run the clock out" and try to nullify the crimes he had done. trump's sidekicks/current Congresspeople are still trying to aid the criminal/trump and that is why they want to take over the House and Senate so they can forgive trump for the TREASON he is responsible for.

[betsuni]

114. K&R

[ShazzieB]

120. Thanks for this post, Tommy Carcetti.

Too bad a lot of people seem to have missed the point. And the amount of defensiveness, sheesh!

But on the plus side, reading these responses made it easy to identify some people to put on ignore.

[Icanthinkformyself]

127. I don't expect much

from the hearings. The right wing cement heads are factually impenetrable and the 'moderates' are too lazy to care about their rights. I do, however, expect them to lead to indictments of very high level officials of tfg's regime. There's plenty of fire to account for the heavy smoke. Where it all goes from there is any body's guess. And, it's a pure guess. There are no prior paradigms to compare to what we are currently experiencing. All prior 'conventional wisdom' is useless. And, the media seems stuck, like a record on a turntable, on 'Republicans poised to win in Nov.'. It's going to be a purposely chaotic mess.

Modern humans: space age technology, cave age mentality.

[ck4829]

134. K&R

[Hekate]

142. KnR