Were you all "shocked" by new information last night?

[tavernier]

I myself felt like I was not surprised by anything, in fact most of the information has been readily available for anyone who cared to look or was paying attention!
I’m surprised that this morning on the news shows so many people were shocked. I don’t think any of us here on DU were the least bit shocked.

[madaboutharry]

1. No one should be shocked and there is a lot more we have yet to learn.

I don't think we are close to knowing everything. I think more "shocking" facts are going to be revealed.

[mucifer]

2. I learned new things. Most of it I heard from Rachel's show before. So I was not shocked

but did learn some new stuff.

[wnylib]

43. Same here. There were a few new things to me.

[2naSalit]

3. I was not shocked.

I doubt I will be since I was pretty sure that what will be exposed was going on back in 2019. I knew back then that it was this big and would lead to this if impeachment directed removal was unsuccessful.

And here we are. At least we ended up with a real president.

[fightforfreedom]

4. The Republicans who asked for pardons after the attack caught my attention.

How many? It looks like the committee has a list of names. That is going to blow the roof off the House.

[mobeau69]

9. Yes, they need to read aloud each name. That will come.

[onethatcares]

21. a long list I hope

all wanting to spend more time with their families.

It would be great if we citizens had the chance to remove the benefits they will probably want to take with them.

[tblue37]

72. Gosar, Biggs, Perry, and one other that I can't remember.

[Delphinus]

5. Not schocked

but I am anxiously awaiting hearing who else besides Perry asked for presidential pardons.

[dewsgirl]

6. Likely because you follow the news more closely than

your average citizen .(I'm assuming this due to your presence here on a political message board.) If you are like most posters here on DU, you consume a much larger diet of news than the average American citizen and you are also of higher intelligence than a good percentage of citizens out there😉.

[Whiskeytide]

59. We follow this stuff more than most journalists as well. n/t

[dewsgirl]

93. Indeed, I felt like I had studied to get a degree

on the topics of the Mueller report, Russia,Trump,etc.. No one will ever convince me, he or his family weren't threatened.
I know many here won't agree and people will say he's just another republican. The NY Times and Washington Post where each dropping bombshells at least a few times a week on the subject of Trump/Russia and the Mueller report, this happened for like a year before their sham redacted to shit, fake report was released as just that, a fake report

[dewsgirl]

99. Sometimes I'll watch a panel on CNN/MSNBC and think to myself,

how have I known this for a year, how do they not?

[Whiskeytide]

100. Exactly. I'm slapping a lot of my friends ...

… who are now asking me “did you hear this” or “did you hear that”? (Slap). I told you that in May ‘21.

[Harker]

7. I was surprised that Ivanka Trumpsky said that she took to heart Barr's

dismissal of Daddy's claims about election fraud. I hadn't heard that prior.

Other new details, but nothing shocking.

It seems that the committee is going to put forth their findings to date in a well organized manner.

[bucolic_frolic]

16. Ivanka and Jared appeared as scared rabbits

more attuned to not telling lies and terrified of what they were realizing.

[Harker]

33. Yes. There's a lot of bad wood underneath the veneer. n/t

[wnylib]

44. I'm surprised that they testified at all

instead of ignoring the committee like so many of Trump's people did.

[mercuryblues]

8. I was not shocked

I am pissed for many reasons.

His staff were so afraid of what he might do, they wouldn’t leave him alone.

His cabinet knew he was lying and stirring up a coup and they refused to even consider removing him.

Pence knew the score and went right back to licking up his orange diarrhea.

They are all complicit because of their inaction then…and STILL

[msfiddlestix]

47. ✔️ ✔️ ✔️ ✔️ ✔️ n/t

[hamsterjill]

48. Wish I could recommend your post a thousand times!

Exactly. None of them have yet to come forward and say Trump is guilty.

[Tomconroy]

10. Not shocked, but I certainly learned details I didn't know like

How the Proud Boys were at the Capitol way early, laying the groundwork for a mob to storm the Capitol.

[Karma13612]

35. Yea, that was the shocker for me.

It pretty much nailed things down regarding true pre-meditation. Planning for violence.

And then the testimony of Officer Edwards. Wow.

It was well done in my opinion. The whole presentation was tight and professional. I liked the fact that there were not even an hiccups with the AV (audio-visual) logistics. It all flowed logically and seamlessly.

I was using the MSNBC feed so I listened to a bit of their commentary afterwards. I was annoyed that some of them kept re-quoting Steve Bannon and what he said on his radio show before 1-6. They claim he said, “It’s going to be wild”. No, that’s what Trump said. They even showed the footage of Steve Bannon and he said “All HELL is going to break lose”.

I wish they would have quoted him accurately. The 1-6 committee did.

Anyway, well done and can’t wait until Monday 10 AM. This is one of the benefits of being retired. My SS might be ripped away from me, but until that day, my current budget allows for TV with cable and internet. I will make the best of it.

[wnylib]

45. I watched on PBS News Hour.

There was some commentary afterward, but none of the sensationalism that other stations often (usually) have.

[Karma13612]

83. Sounds like I might want to try that for Monday's

Hearing.

With so many sessions yet to play out, I certainly will have a chance to try them all! I keep CSpan in my back pocket as well. Unless they have the ‘call in’ phone lines going, I find their coverage to be very neutral.

LOL!!

[Ferrets are Cool]

11. Only in that they actually implicated tfg so bluntly.

My jaw kept dropping to the floor with each DIRECT piece of evidence.

[wnylib]

49. I was a bit surprised at the blunt statements

about Trump. Guess I am so used to the media's soft coverage of the coup attempt that hearing bluntly truthful statements was surprising. They pulled no punches and minced no words.

[Lovie777]

12. I'm not shocked . ....

but I've been following this since before the 2020 elections. I knew what shithole and his comrades were planning. It was obvious in 2016 when shithole allegedly won.

I remember him saying fraud re: voting, because he lost the popular vote.

P.S. my computer automatically opens with a news site, which I never applied for and guess what, nada on J6.

[bucolic_frolic]

13. Surprised the coup was entirely Maestro driven top down without a hint of grass roots input

They were all telling him the election was fair and square. But Flynnie and Ghouli and Sydney were there cheering on the Maestro who put it all in motion. J6 C better show us the money fast. MAGAts didn't pay the freight, but someone did.

[barbaraann]

14. Surprised that we hadn't heard much before about the activities of the militia guys.

The media coverage of that day didn't really give a good picture of what was actually happening. It seems that the actions of the militias were central and the actions of the rallygoers were just cover or distraction. Was the purpose of the rally and subsequent walk to prevent the media from covering the military-style assaults on the Capitol designed to stop or kill Pence and members of Congress?

[bucolic_frolic]

22. Coups have their leaders, their foot soldiers, and their muscle

Historians will study and compare, for 100 years, parallels between Jan 6 insurrection/coup, and the 1917 Russian Revolution which was called at the time, in the press, an insurrection. The Bolsheviks eliminated opposition, lying, compromising, lying about rivals, making alliances with factions, all to the purpose of seizing the legislature and power itself.

It is difficult for me to understand how this 2021 plot was not well-informed by a close study of the 1917 event.

I wonder if Flynn and Trump were not communicating closely over the 4 years in office.

Ten Days that Shook the World by John Reed is an account of the only western journalist on the ground in Russia, 1917.

[barbaraann]

30. Oh, that is interesting.

I wish I had spent more time in my life learning about Russia. Boris and Natasha weren't a joke.

[msfiddlestix]

62. This deserves its own thread, imo.

Very inteesting.

I had made a time or two, of the comparison of J6 to the Bolshevik insurrection/coup even without the benefit of a deeper knowledge of many of the details in 1917..just a general brush of that history. Given that I am convinced that Putin was directly tied to Trumps 2015/2016 campaigning and elections.

I'm convinced he began plotting to get Trump into office in 2013/14 and 2020. There's no doubt in my mind the strategy and tactics of 1917's insurrection ripped from the same playbook.

[bucolic_frolic]

63. And Putin is, at heart, an old Bolshevik in the Stalin mode

I recall in the early 1970s an opinion from I think Foreign Policy magazine that the USSR would become more like the US, and vice versa.

In the 2000 post-election kerfuffle, Bush v. Gore, there was a clip on local radio of a sitting member of Euro Parliament, and I think it was a descendant of the Hapsburg's, saying "so much for your vaunted democracy!".

By 2008 we were told the US had been exporting pollution for so long, even to Russia, and Russian standards of living were so low, that the US was going to have to accept more pollution and lower standards of living.

So, as always, there are forces in the world against democracy, against US democracy. We have, after all, defeated authoritarian powers in 2 world wars, and won one or two others against monarchies, and many a monarchy never recovered from the democratic movements of the 1800s culminating in the Revolutions of 1848, and those rippled into the 1900s (Italy with Garibaldi for example).

So yes, it's all a pattern that fits together nicely, as you say. Facts don't lie, and nothing of any consequence happens by happenstance.

And hats off to you too!

[anarch]

79. oh yeah, now that I think about it

it does have a bit of Russian flavor to it, doesn't it?

And you know, this coup might have worked too, if they'd picked a serious man for their puppet/dictator/figurehead, but instead they chose....Donald Fucking Trump.


I guess you have to work with what you've got available. But yeah, if it had been someone with a working brain, and if they'd managed to get substantial military support, we'd be in even more trouble than we are now.

[bucolic_frolic]

80. Trump was no Vladimir Lenin /nt

[anarch]

81. haha! I'm imagining that being read with intense gravitas by James Earl Jones...

as part of the wrap-up of some future documentary of this whole horrific shitshow...like, "the extremist militias were in position, ready to move in with assault rifles as soon as they got the final order from their leader...but Trump was no Vladimir Lenin..." and cut to a scene of TFG soiling himself and then wandering off into another room complaining about windmills or something...

[JanMichael]

89. Yep Lenin was an action leader. Intelligent and driven. Drumpf not so much.

Imagine if in WWII we had Trumps in positions like Eisenhower and Patton. There would be Swastikas hanging on the UN building in NYC.

Thank goodness on January 6th we got the 2nd hand thrift store radical.

[tavernier]

96. I'm wondering if the next "serious man"

might not be DeSantis. The evangelicals seem to be Jonesing for him, pun intended.

[barbaraann]

98. Bingo!

DeSantis is focused like a laser beam on being President, while Trump is more like a disco ball of desires.

[mopinko]

36. i was surprised by the group of proud boys who headed to the capital

before the speech even began. and the fact that they beat the shit out of one of the 1st cops they came across.
it shows why cops were just standing back by the time the big crowd got there.

[JanMichael]

90. That was new to me too. I had not heard of the 10:30am pre-speech maneuver.

It was all planned well in advance.

[Scrivener7]

15. Seeing it presented cogently and coldly and all the facts being brought

into one narrative made it shocking all over again.

The success of these hearings will lie in whether they get the media on side. Going in last night, there was a refrain, almost a chant from the babbling heads, that "most Americans have moved on and forgotten, and will they be interested in talking about it again."

I think they brought it back up for all of us, made it immediate again. That was a big accomplishment. The DOJ is going to do what they are going to do. But the Committee's job is to educate the country about the mortal danger that it is in. They're doing that. And regardless of what the DOJ does, there is real value in providing that education.

But I WAS shocked by
1) Bill Barr and the numbers guy saying tfg was informed often, thus making the case he knew all along what he was doing
2) Ivanka in the headlights saying she didn't believe any of it
and 3) the extent to which they proved that the Proud Boys were organized and planned the coup and were in frequent contact with the coup organizers.

[Novara]

17. I was surprised ...

... that the orange motherfucker said Pence deserved to be hanged.

... that the Shameful Boys were making recon visits to the capitol that morning, BEFORE the rally. That shows intent.

... that SO MANY people told the orange motherfucker that he lost and what he was doing was illegal (I knew some had said it but not how many).

... that SO MANY asked for pre-emptive pardons, which shows consciousness of guilt.

Yes, I knew a lot of what was shown last night because I've been paying attention, but there were some reveals last night. I look forward to seeing the committee's proof.

[Scrivener7]

18. Yeah. That lineup asking for preemptive pardons really was shocking.

I hope they name those names.

[Novara]

19. I am betting the farm that they will

One thing that really hit me last night is the depth of the investigation (and it pleases me to no end). I was hoping that all this time spent and all these interviews given would produce good evidence. I am sure they have the receipts.

[Scrivener7]

20. Me too.

[wnylib]

53. The preemptive pardons surprised me, too.

But it also makes me wonder why they requested pardons if they thought it would work.

If Trump had succeeded in staying in power, why would they need pardons? Or, did they fear that he would purge them later like has happened in some other coups in history?

[Novara]

61. good question

My other question is whether he granted any of them.

[wnylib]

66. If he did grant any of them, then the next question is

Are they valid, coming from someone who granted them for a crime that he was also involved in?

[Novara]

68. interesting

[Justice matters.]

71. RICO case. nt

[GoCubsGo]

52. The only thing thst surprised me was how many people told him what he was doing was illegal.

Their weak attempts at getting him to call it off are not surprising. I already knew that Ivanka and Barr were two of those people, and I was a bit surprised at the time I learned of it. I just didn't realize how shallow the sycophancy was across the board. The same with the pre-emptive pardons. Loyalty to Trump among those around him is a mile wide, but a half millimeter deep, it appears.

The rest of it is no surprise. I already knew that the white nationalist terrorist groups were part of it. The only thing missing was the proof, some of which was provided last night. I expect that additional proof will include members of Congress. Looking at you, Pipe Bomb Margie, Braindead Bobo, Mr. Oh My Ya Ya Oh... I am not even surprised that the bloated, orange sociopath said that Pence deserved to be hanged. Anyone who has watched any of his rallies sees how he gets off describing violent acts.

[sop]

23. One shocking revelation last night:

The presidential pardons requested by members of Congress in the aftermath of the coup. That information will be very interesting. The committee must have evidence these members were deeply involved in the planning and execution of the 1/6 coup.

[livetohike]

25. I want to hear the names of all who wanted a pardon.

They should be outed and then resign.

[onetexan]

40. Same here. I want to know the full list of names of those who begged for pardons

We need them published far & wide.

[livetohike]

24. I was shocked by the new video. Also, I learned a few

new things such as there was some support for using the 25th Amendment and that Pence was doing more than Trump to try and stop the riot.

[sop]

28. I was surprised how well Pence came off in this whole mess.

Liz Cheney and General Milley were particularly strong in support of the VP. Pence will likely be the only member of the Trump administration to escape unscathed when historians have the final say.

[livetohike]

31. Pence put Country first over loyalty to Trump. The sane

Republicans will support Pence. I was so impressed with the presentation last night. Well organized. Too bad the next hearings are at 10:00 am EST. Hopefully some stations will re-broadcast in prime time.

[Karma13612]

37. If I look at just Pence and Cheney

In a bubble separated from the rest of this,

I am wondering if the two are contemplating a Pres/VP run in 2024. Once the MAGA’s are roundly defeated by the hearings, this might leave Pence and Cheney smelling like roses to the “sane’ republicans. If this were the case, I would be worried they might pull it off in 2024.

I could be all wrong, and I hope I am.

[wnylib]

56. I don't think that you are wrong.

I think that you are spot on.

I also can't overlook the irony of Dick Cheney's daughter opposing a coup, considering the 2000 election. The difference between Bush/Cheney in 2000 and Trump in 2020 is that Trump was more violent. But Bush/Cheney laid the groundwork for violence when they hired thugs to disrupt the vote count in Florida. They were willing to use physical aggression to supplement their court cases.

[Karma13612]

84. They keep

Perfecting and fine tuning until they get it right.

Frightening.

[msfiddlestix]

69. Wow. You had the exact impression I had. Exactly what I was wondering. Cheney is exceedingly

gifted, and qualified. She would be very difficult to beat in such a contest.

I kept wondering what she might have her sights. I think Pence has his sights on both Presidential and SCOTUS as his future.


Just a gut instinct thing, nothing based on any reporting or rumor.

[Karma13612]

85. Yea, same with me regarding the gut instinct.

No basis in fact at all, but I am wondering if we are sensitive to what others might find ‘agreeable’ and acceptable if some dystopian universe.

As I said, it means seeing them separate from the Jan 6 events. And all that is associated with the Republicans. You need to suspend logic and common sense to see them as Pres/VP. And that is exactly what they have been asking the MAGA’s to do for the last 5-6 years. Suspend logic, believe in fairy tales and lies. They have succeeded so far.

[Justice matters.]

77. pence is guilty of concealing the criminal plot he was asked to exectute by not reporting it to the

FBI as soon as he heard of it (like the next hour, or day).

[Karma13612]

87. MAGA's don't like him.

Conservatives would salivate to have him in office. They don’t care about him not taking action against Trump when he knew of a plot. If the DOJ doesn’t pursue it, then he gets away with it. That’s the whole point, Trump got away with a LOT of crap. Up until this Jan 6 investigation, he has been getting away with serious stuff.

Why would anyone in the Republican universe hold Mike Pence accountable?

You are right, Justice Matters. And I love Glenn Kirschner. But, if the government doesn’t hold Trump accountable, they certainly won’t hold Pence accountable. And that is the rub.

We are in this state because up until now, most elected bad actors have rarely been held accountable.

[Justice matters.]

75. pence is guilty of concealing the criminal plot he was asked to exectute by not reporting it to the

FBI as soon as he heard of it.

[Justice matters.]

74. pence is guilty of concealing the criminal plot he was asked to exectute by not reporting it to the

FBI

[msfiddlestix]

97. Yes, indeed. Yet Liz Cheney gave high praises to Pence in her presentation for his loyalty to

his oath in office and constitution above his cult master dft.

It was a very elequent and cogent presentation, and invoking praise and gratitude to Pence felt like I was listening to a presidential campaign endorsement.

I can easily see her sights set on Presidential Run with Pence. If she were head of the ticket, and she avoided asserting repuke extremists rhetoric, she would likely get the support from moderate/conservative dems and independents and ultimately effect a very difficult to achieve win for Harris.

I can easily see this happening She won't have trump loyalists, but she'd have enough conservatives with independents and even conservative dems. But if Pence leads the ticket, I think that would be a different outcome...

just speculating.. my feeling is that Harris will need to up her game during the next two years, like assuming the likes of Liz Cheney might be her opponent, instead of a trump cult figure.

[SKKY]

26. What Trump said with regards to the "Hang Mike Pence" chants was new to me...

...if it was out there, I hadn't heard it before. That was pretty chilling. I also thought the testimony by Caroline Edwards was particularly impactful.

[babylonsister]

27. Caroline Edwards' testimony was new to me; prior

to yesterday I knew nothing about her.

[LexVegas]

29. The Congress members asking for pardons afterwards was new to me. nt

[doc03]

32. "Shocked" No nothing Trump does shocks me. If they had a video of Trump ordering the Proud Boys

to hang Mike Pence, it would be no surprise.

[Silent3]

54. I'd be surprised by that

But only surprised that they had the video, not that it happened.

Then again, knowing Trump, it would be a bit surprising if he'd actually used words like "hang Mike Pence" instead of mob-boss-speak like "make sure the Pence problem is taken care of".

[doc03]

55. I would bet my SS check he has had people "taken care of " nt

[tavernier]

34. As many stated above, there was new information

but nothing that particularly surprised me. We knew that the rigged election idea was bullshit. We knew that the extent of the involvement was much deeper, hence the request for pardons… that is definitely a list of names I’m more than curious to know, as well as how deep they are involved in prior planning and organization, i.e. maps of specific locations in the building where congressional members would be located, doors and windows with easy access, etc.

I was very optimistic at the specific language, as opposed to all of the “alleged” lingo by the media since 1/6.

They showed the American people the outline of this heinous story, and I think many will be anxiously looking forward to the contents.

[Emile]

38. Nothing shocked me, but I'm more informed than an ignorant Fox viewer.

[cally]

39. I was shocked

That committee had testimony and facts to present what we knew The testimony was damning!

[ecstatic]

41. Not shocked, except for the quote from tfg in reference to pence

It's been obvious to me from day 1 that he wanted pence and a lot of others to be killed that day, but I'm surprised he openly said that to someone.

[kentuck]

42. There was a lot to digest.

Maybe too much for some folks?

[Chainfire]

46. Not shocked, but I certainly got some new detail.

The video evidence of the apparent coordination of the two separate Fascist groups was new to me. The overhead view of the mob closing in on the Capitol was new and the perspective gave a better impression of how big the crowd was.

I think that the hearings will lose a lot of their potential impact by being separated in time. It would have been more effective to present the evidence on successive days. I am guessing that they had to take the time the broadcasters would give them.

The Ivanka video was so bad that I knew it would be attacked as fake. She looked like a cheap animation. Now, before someone goes nuts, I do believe that the video was real, it just looked terrible. Perhaps it was the best they could do with a video of a video.

[hamsterjill]

50. Not shocked.

I thought it was well done and concise. Cheney did an excellent job.

What I am also NOT shocked at are the reactions from some Republicans I follow on Facebook who, of course, are saying it is all a farce meant to distract from the fact that the election was stolen.

Some people just cannot digest facts, and unfortunately, I cannot understand it for them.

[Silent3]

51. Either I had heard it all before, or if I hadn't heard...

...a particular detail explicitly and specifically stated before, it was something that very naturally followed from what I had heard before.

I did appreciate seeing the clips of Barr and Ivanka making it clear they knew the election wasn't stolen, and that they'd told Trump that themselves. (Barr had already, however, make public statements to that effect, so only seeing it from Ivanka was new.)

It was new to me (but not at all surprising) that the Proud Boys didn't even bother attending the rally, but went straight into planning for the attack on the Capitol.

[CrackityJones75]

57. For me it was the letters to the states

For me it was the letters to the states. I knew they were pressuring Georgia but I didn’t know they had written down lies that they knew were lies saying the DOJ had found evidence of large scale fraud.

[patphil]

58. There were a few things.

I hadn't realized the Proud Boys and Oath Keepers were at the Capitol at 10:30AM, and the attack was underway before the mob arrived. Also, that they knew which windows and doors weren't reinforced.

It was the first time I actually heard Wm. Barr's testimony from him. And, was surprised to hear Ivanka say she believed Attorney General Barr. It was interesting to note that she didn't say her father was lying about election manipulation, but that she believed Barr, who said the whole election rigging and voter fraud thing was bullshit, thus implying her father lied.

[RainCaster]

60. Just appalled by the depravity of DFT and company

So many of his "inner circle" stood by and did nothing. Then later denied any feeble actions taken. Then asked Mango Mussolini for a pardon. WTF?

[Patton French]

65. Maybe a little by the pardon thing.

Otherwise, no.

[Paladin]

67. I was shocked and pleased with how competently and hard-hitting it was done.

Exceeded my expectations substantially.

[Brother Buzz]

70. No, am I'm a little disappointed I didn't win Bingo

[Deminpenn]

73. Info about the Proud Boys casing the

Capitol, then having a nice lunch. The number Quested estimated at 200-300 was also surprising to me.

[budkin]

76. Incredibly sad, but not shocked.

Seeing that footage again just makes me weep for our country.

[Emile]

78. The testimony from US Capital Policeman Caroline Edwards

was new information for me.

[gldstwmn]

82. It would take a lot to shock me. I was shocked on the day that it happened,

watching it unfold on television.

[Karma13612]

86. Yea, I remember it as clear as I remember

Last edited Fri Jun 10, 2022, 10:51 PM - Edit history (1)

Two other horrific times in my life:

In 1963 at 9 years old when JFK was assassinated. I was so scared. I thought the country would be in trouble because the ‘father’ had been killed. At that age, I saw the President as the father or authority figure of the country and without him, we would be vulnerable.

Then in 2001, living and working in England at the time, when the WTC/9-11-2001 attack occurred. Again, scared, mortified, frightened. I was safe, but what about my parents back in the states? Friends, loved ones. What about our country? My husband who was at home at the time with a bad back, called me at work after the first tower. And then again when the Pentagon was hit. At that point, all I could think was “Our country is under attack”. Within a few minutes, after my husband’s second call to me at work, I left work and headed straight home to be with the only family I had in England.

And I remember Jan 6 2021, not quite 20 years after 9-11, when our country attacked itself. I just looked at the coverage in real time and kept crying out: Where are the authorities? Where are ‘the good guys’ who will stop this siege.

[gldstwmn]

88. It was definitely one of those moments. My first one of those was when Reagan was shot.

The second was 9/11 when for the first time I was truly scared in this country hearing jets flying over my house while I was in bed that night and knowing they were military jets because nothing else was flying.
The third was 1/6 when I, like you kept wondering where the reinforcements were.

[Karma13612]

91. Yea, I can't imagine

Your fear over 9-11 when the airspace was cleared of everything but military. OMG

[lunatica]

92. I've found that DU is way ahead of the curve

when it comes to political issues. I didn’t see anything I haven’t found on DU over the last year and a half, so I consider myself pretty well informed just coming here.

DUers are really up to date on what goes on in politics. I love y’all!

[Meowmee]

94. I have not watched most of it

but I was not shocked by any of it that I did see or saw repeated... frankly I keep thinking why the day it all happened I had no real sense of how violent it was though, the media was not really reporting it at first anyway, maybe later on that evening.

[MissMillie]

95. One surprise. a lot of filling in the details

was that sometime before Eastman put up his scheme, he apparently told people that it was illegal/unconstitutional.

I was not aware that he had done a flip-flop.


Officer Edwards testimony gave me details I didn't know... to the point where I was in tears. She's an amazingly strong women--a hero.