Irredeemable MAGAts

[pfitz59]

I have Friends and family who are determined to support TFG, despite over-whelming evidence of his crimes. Nothing dissuades them of their steadfast belief that Jan 6th is 'irrelevant' and the Head Orange was justified in launching the coup attempt. They say the hearings are a circus, and nothing more than propaganda. They are doubling down on the insanity. I worry where this is taking us.

[TheProle]

1. The dead-enders are lost causes

Those culpable need to be held fully accountable by lawmakers and the courts and the dead-enders need to be written-off and relegated to the ugly margins of history.

We do ourselves no favors trying to redeem them, but we must also look for low-info voters who fell under the spell and can be potentially swayed to our side.

Distinguishing between those two groups is not easy, but is necessary in my opinion.

[TigressDem]

5. How do you tell the difference?

My son says I am a victim of "Fake News" and he tries to feed me stuff MTG says.

I made him stop using her name in my car or get out and walk one time.

He wants to be able to talk to me about this, convince me, make me watch their stuff.

I still wonder if they aren't using subliminal messaging on their videos to get people to agree even if they don't.


I am trying to think what would the lynchpin be that would unravel it for him?

He doesn't like tRump and the letter from his appointed lapdog AG that effectively got 140 officers wounded and 2 dead might work.

It's tRump firing a guy for refusing to break the law (by planning to leave the Capitol vulnerable) and replacing him with someone who would do that and more.

[LuvLoogie]

8. How old is your son?

How is he socialized? With whom doe she spend most of his time?

[TigressDem]

10. Grown with his own family

He spends time with his in-laws.

Father in law is a gun toting conservative, but able to remain civil in conversations. He's a Marine.

He has friends he does bbq's with mostly families but he has them all bamboozled.

He's in construction.

He watches the ALT News.

Yeah. I'm screwed.

[TigressDem]

11. It really comes down to the quality of their fake videos and the CONSTANT flow of BS

I was able to watch the video of the security footage presented to Georgia court with supposed vote counting of huge amounts under the tables.

On my computer full screen it is easy to see that those bins "appeared" at some point. 1 second they were not there and the next they were.

The court had access to the FULL security video and determined what was shown was the same space earlier in the day so it was not valid evidence being presented.

But he still swears by it. I wish I could go to Georgia, make him watch the whole tape and see for himself where they took the fake clip from.

[LuvLoogie]

12. Extended exposure over time to a different crowd on your turf is probably the only way.

It takes a while. He has to get out of his comfort zone and right wing echo chamber. You'd have to be sneaky about it. Really subtle.

[TigressDem]

13. Hmmm?

So he's working way up North doing a good paying gig that makes him stay in a hotel.

He will be there 6 days a week until it's done.

I have thought of going up there one of these days to have the conversation, but I have to have it like a presentation to the board of a Fortune 500 Company.

THEN I will have to listen to him and not lose my mind.

[ReluctanceTango]

15. Tell him you have nothing more to say

on the topic until he reads this book:

https://www.amazon.com/Think-Again-Power-Knowing-What/dp/1984878107/

As it is, it’s rude and selfish of him to demand that only he be heard, and that you can’t have your own views. I doubt you taught him such uncouth behaviour, so tell him you find it distressing that he has let himself be influenced by anyone who could make him so intolerant—and intolerable. Tell him you also don’t appreciate being treated like an idiot, or being called a liar, both of which he’s doing, even if he doesn’t think that’s what he’s up to.

This is how my mother got my youngest brother to stop being such a jerk to her for not supporting that treasonous fat pile of dog vomit TFG like he did. Now they agree to disagree and talk about other, less contentious topics.

[Pyryck]

6. I disagree about MAGA's and low-info voters

Secretary Clinton referred to them as "deplorables" and it cost her some votes.

I like to think of them as the "Gullables" - easily persuaded, easy to appeal to emotion, easy to be baffled with BS. Speak their language and they just might learn to see or understand something differently.

If we ignore them and their opinions, thoughts and emotions, while leaving them to their own festering thoughts, then we have only postponed the inevitable downfall of democracy.

As for the culpable they need to be met with a simple phrase - "they have the right to remain silent".

Or perhaps better still "LOCK THEM UP".

[TheProle]

14. Sec Clinton made nearly the exact distinction I made

“You know, to just be grossly generalistic, you could put half of Trump’s supporters into what I call the basket of deplorables. Right?” Clinton said. “The racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamaphobic—you name it. And unfortunately there are people like that. And he has lifted them up.”

She said the other half of Trump’s supporters “feel that the government has let them down” and are “desperate for change.”

“Those are people we have to understand and empathize with as well,” she said.

https://time.com/4486502/hillary-clinton-basket-of-deplorables-transcript/

[Bayard]

2. Same here

They're certainly not watching the hearings. They want to argue about, and ignore the truth.

[TigressDem]

3. I keep hoping facts will finally sway them because one is my son.

I am home with Covid so maybe I should finally print up the things I want to say to him that MIGHT bring him around, if he lets me talk or if he actually looks at the proof.

[ReluctanceTango]

16. Facts don't work with them.

You cannot reason people out of something they didn’t reason themselves into in the first place.

There is no coup de grace argument that will turn them around. At best, you can drop little seeds of doubt that grow over time, a seemingly casual remark or question that burrows into their heads and starts nagging at them, even if they try to shake it off. Turning down the heat yourself will help. It’s hard for them to get emotional if you refuse to be so yourself.

One tactic that I’ve seen that can work is to ask, “How do you know that?” Get them to tell you their “source” for an assertion. Don’t judge or scoff at the answer. Instead ask where that source got their information. I doubt your son ever considered that, first of all. Second, few of the RWNJ “sources” are experts at anything other than BS, and they don’t know what qualifies as credible sources, either. If he gets back to you with where so-and-so got his information, then ask where that source got their information. After you’re at the end of the source, ask the one question they really hate: “Can you think of a way that the information your source got could be shown to be false?” Not what someone else says makes it false. What he believes would make it false, and encourage him to share that falsifiability to you. Only express dismay if they don’t treat the answer seriously. Ask them to be serious.

If you can get the person you know to start wondering where their own “sources” get their information, and if he himself can refute it easily, those are seeds of doubt in their confidence in what they’re hearing.

But be warned that if he’s completely down the crazy rabbit hole, then this tactic will only make him belligerent and more intractable. If he’s that far gone, you may need to accept that he’s abandoned you in favor of his hate, and make a decision about what to do from there.

[cbabe]

4. Best book of tactics ever.

https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/133203.The_Gentle_Art_of_Verbal_Self_Defense#

The Gentle Art of Verbal Self-Defense
by Suzette Haden Elgin

Learn how to detect the subtle "put-downs", insults and other verbal blows that almost everyone uses—parents and children, husbands and wives, teachers and students, and friends and lovers.

Most of us are under verbal attack everyday and often don't even realize it. In The Gentle Art of Verbal Self-Defense you'll learn the skills you need to respond to all types of verbal attack. Specific strategies for your defense include… more…

…

I gave copies to teachers who were being harassed by bad admins. Those teachers bought more copies to pass on.

[TigressDem]

9. It's not on Kindle, so I bought Verbal Judo instead same concept

We'll see how that goes

[Quakerfriend]

7. I also have such family & friends.

Most republicans can’t stand to admit any wrong doing.
I find that they really don’t pay attention too much but, they all go faithfully to vote.

[Lettuce Be]

17. No one wants to admit they were duped. It's just very hard to admit having been a fool.

It's easier to just dig in your heels than admit you were wrong.

[IcyPeas]

18. "the peaceful transfer of power has been honored by EVERY American president....EXCEPT ONE"

Do they understand this quote from Cheney? It's profound. History will prove them all wrong. They are saying J6 is irrelevant because they don't understand history.


Liz Cheney opening statement:

“The sacred obligation to defend [the] peaceful transfer of power has been honored by every American president….except one.”

Link to tweet