To those who oppose prosecuting Trump because "it would tear our nation apart":

[Atticus]

if he is not prosecuted for that reason, we will no longer have a nation, "torn apart" or otherwise.

We will have irreversibly abandoned the principle we considered a part of our birthright as Americans---"No man is above the law!"

We will have acquiesced in the deliberate euthanizing of the world's oldest democracy.

We will have rewritten the Golden Rule to proclaim that "He who has the gold makes the rules!"

In short, everything decent and noble and generous and inspiring that we ASSUMED was a constant in our lives as Americans will be for sale to the highest bidder. Greed and cruelty and violence will be considered "strength" in the new business enterprise occupying North America and the "bright city on the hill" will become "Potterville" writ large.

[Beachnutt]

1. And we will continue to have a madman on the loose

[musclecar6]

44. Agreed

Do we really want a megalomaniac psychopath running around loose doing everything he can to regain power to be a modern day Hitler ? He should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, to serve notice on the next asshole who pulls evil crazy stunts.

[IngridsLittleAngel]

2. It's already torn apart

The only question is whether it could be put back together.

If Drumpf is not prosecuted? My guess is no. It cannot nor ever will be put back together if he is not prosecuted.

[OverBurn]

25. +1

[Harker]

27. +33...

It's not up to us to always make nice.

[Haggard Celine]

54. I unfortunately agree.

I was just visiting my parents across town. They were watching Fox, of course, so I watched with them. The hearing came up. I told them I watched it and they said, "where, CNN?" CNN came up again and again. Fox watchers have a particular disdain for CNN. I said no, that I watched it on YouTube. They know I don't have cable tv!

Anyway, I said that Fox didn't carry it, why was that? My dad said that Fox didn't want to "participate in that." I said that they didn't want their viewers to see.the truth. That got them mad. They started talking about how Fox is the only station that's fair and balanced. So I said that only Fox tell the truth, huh? Everybody else is lying. Anyway, we stopped talking after I saw how angry they were. After Brett Baier went off, they started watching a show and we all watched that.

I stayed for an hour or two more, and then I left. Things were strained after our argument. There was tension in the air. This happens when we talk about political shit, meaning it happens when I vesgive my opinion. And all of this shit gets stirred up over that orange motherfucker. God, I hate that man! If I see him go to prison, I will be a happy man, at least for that day.

This shit has already torn us up. It's time to throw down and tell the fucking truth. Let them spew their bullshit, but we need to take this shit all the way. It's the only thing that will make them shut up. Oh, some of them will still be around taking up for Trump, but they will be a small minority. Everyone else will acknowledge the truth and move on with their lives. We are at the root of a lot of problems here, all in one piece. We're all in for a hell of a ride.

[IngridsLittleAngel]

70. I lost all but my dad when I came out in the 90's myself

So, I can hardly call life pre-2016 a paradise thanks to the growing divide in this country. Hell, the 90's weren't much fun either, thanks to Newt and his Contract on America.

But, my dad in the last 6 years has lost his 2 best friends and 2 of his sisters. All 4 became proud members of the Drumpf Qult. All 4 of them became increasingly open with their bigotry, thanks to both Drumpf and them watching Faux Noise nonstop to get their Drumpf fix.

He and his friends just drifted apart (one of them passed away a couple years later.) The split-up with his sisters were ugly, though. One even had the nerve to send him a birthday card that had pre-printed on it "May you find joy on this day!", to which she added a lengthy handwritten rant, starting with "Even though there is no joy in your heart" and tore into a 70-something year old (don't recall his age when this happened) with dementia. "Accept Jesus Christ as your lord and savior, and accept Donald Trump as your Christian leader on Earth" or something like that. Just all sorts of nonsense like that. All because she drank the Drump Kool-Aid and he refused.

I've lost a number of friends, though. I decided I couldn't be friends with people who devote their lives to spewing hate. I certainly couldn't be friends with people who thought I was subhuman, didn't deserve human rights, didn't see me as a equal, etc.. Some of those were also cases of quietly drifting apart. Other cases got ugly at the end - usually because I couldn't tolerate their hate anymore and snapped.

I'm so sorry to hear that you're having such a tense situation with your own parents. It's always sad to see, no matter how many times I see it. Sadly, so many times, it's the same causes and issues. Fux. Limbaugh. Drumpf. MAGA. "Stop the Steal!" Divisive "politics" with one side not so much being about politics but buying into hate and lies from the extremists.

Such stories - mine, yours, so many others - are a microcosm of what is happening to the entire country. If the divide and hate and bigotry and ignorance are shattering families and friendships... it's only sadly to be expected that it'll be worse when it comes down to total strangers.

[Haggard Celine]

77. Thanks for sharing your story.

It’s heartbreaking, but it makes me feel less alone to know there are others going through this. It’s a national sickness, a lot worse than Covid, although Covid is weirdly a part of it. I did get my parents to get their Covid shots, though, so they aren’t totally lost, or maybe I’m just hoping.

It’s a cult, like people say, a cult that operates out in the open and is trying its best to create an alternate reality. It’s a battle for what is true and good about our country and the world and it’s also a movement to expose the people who are leading this cult of their evil and twisted schemes. It’s a war. This is just the very beginning, and it’s going to get really ugly. Brother against brother and all of that, all over again.

I really would like to leave. By the time I’m old enough to retire, this place might be a hellscape, and I really don’t want to live in that!

[shanti]

62. Exactly

That ship done sailed.

[ecstatic]

64. Exactly. Do our feelings not count?

Do only rethugs' opinions matter? WTF?

[IngridsLittleAngel]

71. That's how the media acts, sadly

After the election was called for Biden, CNN and various other media agencies wasted no time saying "You know, 80 million people voted for Drumpf. We must listen to them too." Which I thought was utter bullshit for two reasons:

1. 86 million voted for Biden. Do we get listened to?

2. We have heard Drumpf voters. We've been forced to hear them since 2016. "Fuck your feelings!" "Fuck your safe space!" "MAGA!" Racist rant this, homophobic rant that, "Kill transgenders!" this, "build the wall!" that. We have been forced to hear them already. How about giving us a chance to speak?

Well, sure enough, they haven't. And I knew they wouldn't. The moment the "We must listen to Drumpf voters" crap started, I knew what it meant.. They'd give them a louder microphone than us (if we even get one) and the media will spend more time covering Drumpf and his qult than they will covering Biden and us.

[stage left]

83. + a million

A portion of the people in our country have gone down the rabbit hole into an alternate reality.

[IngridsLittleAngel]

108. They certainly have

Used to be that could land someone in a mental hospital. But how the hell do we hospitalize millions of people?

[randr]

86. The mending begins with his perp walk

It would start the largest celebration in history

[agingdem]

98. September 8, 1974 Gerald Ford pardoned Richard Nixon

he said "...our long national nightmare is over.."..he was wrong, it was just beginning, but in the shadows...the Republican Party understood...no accountability, no consequences..and now here we are...Trump: I could shoot somebody and not lose voters"...yes..

[GoCubsGo]

88. Yep, and NOT holdiing him accountable will only tear it up worse.

It just leaves the door open for more of the same.

[IngridsLittleAngel]

109. He must be held accountable for the sake of both sides

For us on the left, we need to be assured that justice will be delivered, laws will be upheld and such attacks upon our very nation and government will not be allowed. That this will not be ignored to "look forward."

For those on the right, they need to see that the laws will be upheld and attacks such as 1/6 will not go unpunished in this country. That people were punished severely for this attack, and will be for future attacks. That attempting to hold the country hostage or overthrow the government because they don't like how the election turned out is not democracy, and that this is not some third-world banana republic where we violently overturn elections.

If a message is not delivered, they will act even more violently the next time around. It will also leave a lot of people wondering if some people are above the law and can do whatever the hell they please without consequences.

[catrose]

95. Yep. Torn.

[Wounded Bear]

3. We're going through this shit now because Ford pardoned Nixon...

[2naSalit]

8. +1

[LenaBaby61]

18. THIS 👆🏻👆🏻👆🏻

[CentralMass]

19. Din't forget Iran-Contra.t

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93Contra_affair

[Wounded Bear]

41. I haven't forgot. They just followed the precedent of the Nixon pardon...

I hate that one. Ollie North besmirched my USMC uniform and should have done prison time.

[JHB]

78. If I recall correctly, North wasn't among the pardoned, he "got off on a technicality"

His convictions were vacated by a three-judge panel on the grounds that the convictions were influenced by his immunized testimony to Congress during its Iran-Contra hearings (that's partly why the 1/6 committee hearings are happening now, rather than a year ago: to not interfere with prosecutions).

The three judge panel consisted of:
Patricia Wald (Carter appointee), who dissented from the majority decision
Lawrence Silberman (Reagan appointee)
David Sentelle (Reagan appointee)


Silberman and Sentelle have spent their careers as activist judges and conservative political operatives. Sentelle was particularly instrumental in letting the Whitewater investigation wander all over creation in search of something to pin on Bill Clinton.

[gldstwmn]

96. He sure did. He's continued to show up like a bad penny ever since.

[MyOwnPeace]

23. As I just posted elsewhere:

THAT is why we're in the mess we're in now.

NIXON should have been charged and punished. (Watergate)

REAGAN should have been charged and punished. (Iran-Contra)

BUSH/CHENEY should have been charged and punished. (WMD lies)

And tRump?

[JanMichael]

39. The only crime that trumps Drumpf is the WMD lies by Bush/Cheney.

Iran/Contra was really bad. Really bad. But not an attempted violent cup attempt.

Watergate is child's play compared to Jan 6th. But that said Nixon should have been punished which he was not.

There are two living ex presidents that should be behind bars for life.

[MyOwnPeace]

42. With 'ya, partner............

Man, discuss 'Watergate' now and most people would just 'shrug' and say "so?"

And THAT was the problem! And while people DID serve time and destroy their own careers, the 'process' was let off 'scot free!'

And because of THAT - it has only gotten worse.

So that's where we are: a "President" tries to undermine a legitimate, free election in order to keep himself in office - and we have a divided Congress debating it.

SAD!

[gldstwmn]

97. W stood there and lied in front of both houses of Congress and the Supreme Court.

We went to war when Saddam was no threat after all and once everyone got over there the truth was revealed. Halliburton was plastered all over everything as far as the eye could see.

[Rebl2]

26. True

[Harker]

29. Our long national nightmare continues. n/t

[wnylib]

50. Yup. I remember hearing people say then

that the nation had been through too much - polarization over Vietnam, assassinations, bombings and other attacks on Blacks fighting for civil rights - so we could not put ourselves through a more thorough investigation and legal action against Nixon. The excuse was, "The country couldn't take it. We have been through too much already."

A coworker of mine said, "We should never prosecute a former or sitting president."

And so here we are, dealing with an even worse former president.

[Wounded Bear]

52. Indeed! nt

[Baitball Blogger]

4. There must be consequences or the white conservatives will

Assume that they have the right to lie, cheat and plan insurrections.

[Emile]

5. Who are these people?

Hopefully none of them are the ones who said have patience.

[UpInArms]

6. The failure to hold Nixon accountable

forms the basis for this awful situation

[SCantiGOP]

7. I bought into that logic

When Ford pardoned Nixon. Huge mistake.
Had Nixon been prosecuted and convicted, I think the Trumpers would have been much more cautious about their crimes.

[2naSalit]

9. Nixon/Ford pardon set this in motion.

[ymetca]

10. Spot on

Which is why I'm seriously concerned that if we don't expand the Supreme Court, all will be lost.

[BSdetect]

13. We already fumbled that by delaying the move. We will regret that if tfg is not LOCKED UP

[BSdetect]

11. That idea deserves zero traction.

[gab13by13]

12. Atticus, it doesn't matter what you or I think,

whether or not Trump is prosecuted is up to Merrick Garland.

[gldstwmn]

105. I'm going to put this as delicately as I can. I alluded to it in a previous thread.

Garland will not act in a vacuum. He will consult President Biden before any indictment of TFG. Knowing our president as I think I do Biden will tell him that the decision is ultimately up to him. Garland will take any opinion the president has heavily into consideration in making his decision. Biden was elected to the Senate in 1973, a year before Nixon resigned. He saw the whole thing play out up close and personal. Prior to his career in the Senate he was an attorney.
I honestly don't know what his opinion is on the OLC memo or charging Trump. I do know he has said he would not pardon him. He wouldn't anyway. The Republicans would wait until the next Republican president and ask them to do it. That's another precedent.
I do think though that it is imperative that when discussing this, we do not minimize the crimes of previous Republican presidents because they are dirty. It's how we got here and hopefully not but perhaps an indicator of how this is going to play out. America has a habit of moving on.

[Irish_Dem]

14. Trump tore the country apart. We are trying to put it back together again.

[towerbum]

33. we alway's have to fix republican's screw up's ! It's a national past time !

[Irish_Dem]

37. Yep when Dems get in office it is always clean up on aisles 6, 7, 8.

Also the R's empty the national piggy bank and Dems have to fill it up again.

Always the same pattern.

[towerbum]

48. ALWAY'S !

[Shanti Shanti Shanti]

15. Hooey, Lock Him Up!!! lololololol The country will be safer with him behind bars, DO IT

[Scottie Mom]

16. I'm still pissed about Ford pardoning Nixon.

If Trump is pardoned, I don’t think the rage over this will ever die for me.

[Polybius]

61. But if he didn't, maybe no Carter victory in 1976

Not sure what 1980 would bring, however.

[gldstwmn]

99. Carter was like Fonzie in '76. He was cool, relatable and America was ready for that.

Plus it was the first time that I recall a bunch of musicians going all in and doing benefit concerts for a candidate. I think it was the Allman Brothers that did the first benefit for him. It doesn't get much better than that. It also engaged younger voters which is always a good thing.
That's the thing about Republicans. They're not f*cking cool. They just aren't.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

17. It's like Ford pardoning Nixon.

Tricky Dick should have died in jail, not been rehabilitated as he was only a few years later.

[HAB911]

20. Might as well return to English rule

[Ohio Joe]

21. It's laughable...

Of all the 'reasons' I've seen why TFG has not been arrested yet... That one is simply beyond ridicules.

[kimbutgar]

22. It's already torn about family, long time friends, co workers and divisions in states

I don’t know if our country will ever be unified again.

Even if martians invaded earth the right wing would be blaming President Biden and the Democratic Party. And rooting for the martians to win and destroy blue areas.

[MyOwnPeace]

24. But ONLY the 'blue areas'.........

Otherwise, they must be 'lib aliens!'

[aggiesal]

28. I agree ...

It will set a precedent that we could no longer over come.
The next person who tries this, will be smarter than Pendejo45 and if we don't prosecute, they'll have no fear of consequences, because there won't be any.

[Bev54]

30. Are there people out there still peddling that BS?

[wendyb-NC]

31. Absolutely right

His 4 years as POTUS, were non-stop crime spree.

[towerbum]

49. You mean TDFG piggy bank & U.S. Treasury!

[gldstwmn]

100. We don't even know if there was intelligence given up like what Kushner may have given

to the Saudis or what might have been said to Vlad in Helsinki.

[towerbum]

101. Russian asset's at it's best !

[onecaliberal]

32. Either we are a nation of laws or we are not. We can not survive if we don't prosecute them all.

[Mr. Ected]

34. Expect their retribution whether we go after Trump or not

Therefore, go after him. Justice matters.

[Jarqui]

35. For me, it is not about Trump

Last edited Fri Jun 10, 2022, 10:16 PM - Edit history (1)

Nixon was a lot about Nixon and Nixon's culpability with a few others.

Certainly, Nixon should not have been pardoned.
Certainly, Reagan should have been held accountable for Iran-Contra.
Certainly, Bush-Cheney should have been held accountable for WMDs BS (starting a war to help their failing 2004 economy)

But to me, Trump is more about those who knew what Trump was, what he did and who enabled him to do more.
Nixon was going to get impeached (edit). The enablers for Trump passed on two impeachments.
Trump has been out of office for nearly 18 months but the enablers are organizing to steal future elections without Trump. Look at what is happening at the state level.
Here's but one example
https://www.democraticunderground.com/1017741780
or this
Journalist says Republicans now have more reliable ways to overturn election results
https://www.npr.org/2021/12/09/1062683521/journalist-says-republicans-now-have-more-reliable-ways-to-overturn-election-res
or this
How The Republican Push To Restrict Voting Could Affect Our Elections
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/how-the-republican-push-to-restrict-voting-could-affect-our-elections/

There are tons of those articles.
That is the bigger problem here.
That is what has to be addressed NOW!

Trump is a distraction. Don't take your eyes off the prize. Putting Trump in jail is not the prize.

If the enablers do not get held to account and nailed so that they cannot continue, they'll steal the democracy.
There are election thefts coming up in Nov 2022 and Nov 2024.
They distract by pointing the finger of fraud at others while they are doing exactly that behind the scenes.

That is where the fight is and must be.

And we're up against it because 90% of the media is controlled by six large entities sympathetic to Republican policy.

Trump has cost us plenty.
But they can replace him in a heartbeat with DeSantis or someone like him. And keep on costing us.
The real threat is the people who brought us Trump.
As someone wisely put it in a recent thread, Trump is just the rattle of the snake. You have to get the head of the snake.

[MyOwnPeace]

45. Magnificent post!

And indeed, you are correct!

My own Senator, Hugh Scott, a career Republican and 'honored' politician on both sides of the aisles as well as throughout the state of Pennsylvania, was one of those who went to see Nixon and tell him that it was done/over - get out or we're throwing you out!

And now - we have Moscow Mitch - who's mission is to 'preserve' Republican minority power - and make sure that the 'corporate funding' keeps coming into the Republiqan pockets - maintaining their control of the government.

Moscow Mitch is indeed the "HEAD" of the snake that is running DC (and our country). They've got the Supreme Court (he did the Garland/Barrett screw-over without a hint of shame.

We need to get out the axe - get rid of the 'head' and the rest will wither...........

[mnhtnbb]

51. Nixon was not impeached.

He resigned before a vote was taken.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeachment_process_against_Richard_Nixon

[Jarqui]

55. Agreed - technically, very accurate.

Nixon resigned before the vote to impeach - which he'd been bluntly advised was going to go against him.
Nixon wasn't just going to get impeached - Nixon was going to get tossed from office.
So Nixon pre-empted the shame with a resignation and a pardon.
A number of Republicans back then were Americans first.

The majority of Republicans in politics today seem to put party before country.
Trump didn't have to resign in the face of impeachment even though he was guilty of worse than Nixon.
Because Trump knew the fix was in - that he had enough votes from party-first politicians to prevent impeachment.

I think that is more important than the technicality of whether they actually held a formal vote for Nixon's impeachment because he lost the straw vote for impeachment so badly.

[IL Dem]

79. Nixon faced criminal charges beyond the impeachment.

If Ford hadn't pardoned him, the DOJ was ready to prosecute him with criminal charges. Jill Wine-Banks was part of that and she talks about it on her podcast (Sisters in Law) often. It was also discussed in Watergate: A New History by Garrett Graff that was published this year.

If the legal process would have been allowed to play out, IMHO, I don't believe we would have been subjected to the R criminality that followed him.

[Jarqui]

106. I'm not so sure.

Republicans see their base slipping.
Evangelicals are dwindling.
Demographics are shifting away from a white majority.
Support for conservatism as Republicans have known it is trending towards a permanent or long-standing-for-the-foreseeable-future minority.

These acts to suppress votes, stacking of SCOTUS, to get as much dark money into politics as they can,. the dirty tricks, hijacking electoral college votes at the state level, etc, etc is their desperate attempt to cling to power. Part of their thrust to maintain the second amendment is to make sure their people are well armed.

I think that these events like Trump & Jan 6th or something like them would have happened even if they prosecuted Nixon. Desperate folks => desperate measures. They know on the horizon that they cannot expect to win elections. The tide is shifting. The have elected to act. And they are very serious and very committed.

[ymetca]

53. Hence the need

to expand the Supreme Court.

President DeSantis, come 2025, having lost by ten million popular votes, but still "winning" by a twisted electoral process, will claim he has a mandate to start rounding folks up. He'll start by raining hell down on all the lower courts, putting targets on the backs of any judges who won't go along. Don't doubt it. These guys want chaos in the streets so they can suspend the law.

We're that close.

[Jarqui]

56. To expand the court in a meaningful way, we need the political mandate to do so.

Expanding the court when DeSantis is president isn't going to solve anything - just more GOP judges.

We need the Oval office, Senate and House to expand the court, don't we?

If the GOP steal elections in 2022 and 2024, how do we expand the court without the Oval office, Senate and House?

[ymetca]

59. Exactly!

It won't happen then. Unless, for some reason, the current SC doesn't toe the line. I'd be curious what the GOP would do then, but at least that separation of powers would have held.

Then we might have to look .. fifty years hence? I don't know.

[wnylib]

58. Excellent post and spot on.

[58Sunliner]

85. Excellent points.

[Joinfortmill]

36. Totally agree.

[3825-87867]

38. Don't forget Bush I

and the S&L Scandal involving his brother et al which set in motion the idea for the Bush II Recession Money problems, also.

Curious coincidence here:
Republican Ronnie -Fuckup
Carter - Corrected it
Republican Bush I - Fuck up
Clinton - Corrected it
Republican Bush II - Fuck up
Obama - Corrected it
Republican Trump - MAJOR FUCK UP
Biden - Working on it

And the media will still kowtow to the Right.

[MyOwnPeace]

47. Except......

Reagan was AFTER Jimmy Carter........

Carter inherited serious economic problems and couldn't 'correct' them - and the smooth-talking Hollywood star took it all over - and proceeded to drive us into "Trickle-down" economics - the idea that tax cuts for the rich would 'encourage' them to allow the 'poor folk' to get some benefits from 'da Master.'

As to the rest - DAMNED STRAIGHT!

[sop]

94. Corporate media is the Right.

[Lonestarblue]

43. Do we have rule of law that applies to everyone, or do we make exceptions for wealthy white guys?

Everyone who knowingly planned an insurrection against the US government should be prosecuted, from Trump to the wife of a Supreme Court justice is the evidence shows that they committed crimes. Otherwise, our criminal justice system is worthless.

[ananda]

46. utter bs

it might help us heal the
rift that Trump caused

[Efilroft Sul]

57. If those responsible for 1/6 aren't held accountable, America won't be worth putting back together.

[FailureToCommunicate]

60. Abe Lincoln, who ultimately lost his life saving the Union, would spin in his grave.

The orange pig (TFG) MUST be brought to justice, along with his treasonous band of members of Congress.

[ecstatic]

63. We were attacked and I want justice. Period.

It really disgusts me when people use the "precedent" excuse regarding going after a former president. That line of thinking makes presidents above the law. We can't have that.

[gldstwmn]

67. I haven't heard Garland say he is not going after Trump on precedent.

There is an Office of Legal Counsel memo about prosecuting presidents. It's why William Barr supposedly did not charge Donald Trump with obstruction of justice.
No former president has ever been indicted with a crime. That is a precedent. It may be a precedent that is holding Merrick Garland back. Garland let the clock run out on 10 crimes in the Mueller Report that Trump could have been charged with. That follows the precedent.
Manhattan DA Alvin Bragg decided not to move forward with criminal charges against Donald Trump. That follows the precedent.
Precedent is not an excuse. It is a legal term.
Should Trump be charged with crimes? Yes but it doesn't follow the precedent. We'll have to wait and see.

[brooklynite]

65. And who is actually opposing prosecution?

[gldstwmn]

66. Fox News watchers apparently.

[brooklynite]

68. ...who aren't here to read why that's a bad concept.

[gldstwmn]

69. It's a terrible idea and a blow to our democracy.

While we have certainly been in some bad spots, I can't ever recall it ever being so precarious.
As long as we still had the judiciary we could hold on and ride it out. With that gone we are on our own. It is imperative that we find out what the extent of Ginni Thomas, Samuel Alito and potentially Clarence Thomas's involvement was here.

[Atticus]

73. As well-informed as you appear to be, you must be aware of the numerous essays which address the

same concern as my OP.

A Google search just now revealed several in reputable sources.

[brooklynite]

74. Yes, I'm aware of the other "concerns"...none of which seem to mention an actual source...

Give me an actual name of someone who suggests we not prosecute.

[Atticus]

75. As usual, "nit picked". Too busy today to play the game. Have a good one, sincerely. nt

[krawhitham]

104. about 30%-40% of America

The group that has 70% of the guns

[FakeNoose]

72. There is precedent, look at Italy about 10 years ago re: Silvio Burlusconi

(link) https://www.cbsnews.com/news/silvio-berlusconi-sentenced-to-4-years-in-prison-after-tax-fraud-verdict-upheld/

Headline:
Silvio Berlusconi sentenced to 4 years in prison after tax fraud verdict upheld

May 8, 2013
MILAN An appeals court upheld the tax fraud conviction and four-year prison sentence against former Premier Silvio Berlusconi on Wednesday in a case that could see him barred from public office for five years.

In Italy, convictions are not considered definitive until all appeals are exhausted, and Berlusconi's lawyers are expected to appeal the case to the nation's highest Court of Cassation.

In October, a lower court convicted Berlusconi in a scheme that involved inflating the price his Mediaset media empire paid for TV rights to U.S. movies and pocketing the difference. Berlusconi has long denied the charges and says he's a victim of politically motivated prosecutors.

Wednesday's Milan appellate court ruling upheld the lower court's October decision barring him from public office for five years and from managing any company for three years. Berlusconi appeared prepared for the decision, going on his Mediaset TG5 news on Tuesday night to proclaim his innocence and portray the case as a political witch hunt against him and designed to "eliminate a political adversary."

- more at link -

I'm with you Atticus, Chump must be prosecuted. Let the chips fall where they may. We're here NOW because Nixon (among others) got away with his dirty deeds. Chump must be prosecuted, and hopefully convicted. Hopefully as soon as possible.

[Marcuse]

81. And look at Bolivia yesterday.

[link:https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-61767387|

Former Bolivian President Jeanine Áñez has been sentenced to 10 years in jail over what prosecutors say was a coup to oust her predecessor Evo Morales.
A court found Áñez, who was in office in 2019-20, guilty of making "decisions contrary to the constitution".
Áñez has repeatedly said she is the victim of a political vendetta.

[Demsrule86]

76. I don't think it is about tearing the country apart...have you noticed the lone jurist in New York

at Bannon's trial? One guy and it will be a mistrial. And that is in New York. We will likely not get a conviction if Trump is charged and tried. And I think that would be worse than just putting out all the information so people can see what he did...I don't want to see him exonerated.

[mzmolly]

80. Absolutely agree.

If we don't prosecute Trump, our democracy is already dead. It'll be a matter of time before fascism succeeds.

[The Jungle 1]

82. We did nothing to the filthy maggots who started and ran the Civil war.

Look how that has worked out for us. Those pukes are still fighting the Civil war and celebrating their treason.
Fuck Trump.

[gldstwmn]

102. Yes and again that was done for the "good of the country."

I grew up in the North and never visited the South until my late teens. I was quickly advised that my Yankee accent and ideas were not entirely welcome there. That was 40 years ago but still.

[The Jungle 1]

110. I understand your point however.

Appeasing the south to unite the country did not work. It was a failed plan. It created southern states that still celebrate the treasonous war they lost. They built statues of their treasonous heros and fly their flag of treason.
In Germany the citizens are not allowed to even own anything that is nazi related. The German people do not celebrate the war they lost or the soldiers who fought it or the leaders. They accept their mistake.
The south burned the Pa city of Chambersburg to the ground. Yet you can go the Chambersburg and treasonous confederate flags are sold as novelties in the stores.
Ignoring trumps crimes of treason, hoping to unite the country, is a very bad idea.
I would agree that the division this nation is facing could destroy our democracy.

[Escurumbele]

84. Atticus, please submit your post to newspapers, everyone MUST read it. Well done.

[58Sunliner]

87. Take a look at Idaho-

WS and Ammon Bundy are using terrorist tactics to get control of a state. We need to outlaw WS and hate groups. They are terrorists. Ammon Bundy should have been locked up for a long time.
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/far-right-idaho_n_628277e2e4b0c84db7282bd6?29e

[calimary]

89. They already tore the country apart.

By supporting and siding with the beast who created, inspired, and encouraged it, and then cheered as he watched it happen.

[TeamProg]

90. I think it's "Pottersville" and we've been there since Reagan. n/t

From It's A Wonderful Life, yes?

[Turbineguy]

91. We can not do it backwards

Unite the Nation, then prosecute.

[Turbineguy]

92. We can not do it backwards

Unite the Nation, then prosecute.

[slater71]

93. You are correct.

He along with everyone around him that can be prosecuted must be. He is too dangerous to be let off and be voted in again. There would be Trump forever in charge of the country. That goes for De Santis also. At 44 years old, he could be a dictator for 40 years.

[krawhitham]

103. He will take a sweet plea deal

He will not go to jail, he will just have to admit publicly to the big lie and everything else and agree to stay off TV & radio unless he is confessing

[gldstwmn]

107. His malignant narcissism will never allow him to admit to any wrongdoing.

He'll off himself if it comes to that. I'm willing to bet he's never even said the words.