Capitol attack pardon revelations could spell doom for Trump and allies

[marmar]

(Guardian UK) The House select committee investigating the Capitol attack revealed at its inaugural hearing that Donald Trump’s top Republican allies in Congress sought pardons after the January 6 insurrection, a major disclosure that bolstered the claim that the event amounted to a coup and is likely to cause serious scrutiny for those implicated.

The news that multiple House Republicans asked the Trump White House for pardons – an apparent consciousness of guilt – was one of three revelations portending potentially perilous legal and political moments to come for Trump and his allies.

At the hearing, the panel’s vice-chair Liz Cheney named only one Republican member of Congress, congressman Scott Perry, the current chair of the ultra conservative House freedom caucus, who sought a presidential pardon for his efforts to overturn the 2020 election results.

The select committee did not elaborate on which other House Republicans were asking for pardons or more significantly, for which crimes they were seeking pardons, but it appeared to show at the minimum that they knew they had been involved in likely illegal conduct.

The extraordinary claim also raised the prospect that the Republican members of Congress seeking clemency believed Trump’s election fraud claims were baseless: for why would they need pardons if they really were only raising legitimate questions about the election. .................(more)

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/jun/12/us-capitol-attack-panel-hearings-trump-allies-trouble

[sop]

1. Jared wasn't working on those pardons.

He was busy trying to get a pardon for his own father.

[FakeNoose]

14. He was actually in Saudi Arabia talking to MBS about "business loans"

I believe Jared planned all along to be out the country when the Jan. 6th stuff went down. He saw it coming a mile away and wanted no part of it.

However he did have a long list of pardon requests from people who weren't involved in the insurrection.

He was working the regular pardons, people who made campaign donations or did favors for Chump. A lot of them were expecting something in return before Chump left office. That was Jared's main job - minding all the corruption because Chump was too busy watching Faux Noise.

[sarcasmo]

20. Scoring 2 billion dollars, no consequences for the GOP.

[fightforfreedom]

2. The House Freedom Caucus used to be called the Tea Party.

We all know who they are. It is the original Tea Party members who are the traitors. Meadows is one of them.

[2naSalit]

4. +1

[multigraincracker]

21. Please use the original, correct, self given title.

Tea Baggers.

[madinmaryland]

33. "Teabagging for Jesus". Morans!

Also know as “Dick Armey’s Army of Dicks”.

[mrsadm]

35. Thank you I did not know that.

[Blue Owl]

3. Can't spell pardon without Don

[rubbersole]

5. I wonder how much the Jared pardons "he was working on"...

...were going for? That clip of the arrogant pos was included in Thursday night's hearing for a reason.

[eppur_se_muova]

7. By "working on", he meant "negotiating a price".

Not much involved in writing a pardon and signing it. It was the bargaining that took time and attention.

[EndlessWire]

28. Reminds me of Ivanka selling favors

to Chinese businessmen.

[Historic NY]

16. More than a few killers got some

Trump pardon sales list

[link:https://www.justice.gov/pardon/pardons-granted-president-donald-j-trump-2017-2021|]

[empedocles]

39. Huge list of pardons [consumated sales]

[calimary]

42. Making a note about this.

Thanks for the link, Historic NY!

[Hieronymus Phact]

6. Lets never forget:

It's worse than "why would someone want a pardon for only raising legitimate questions".
Accepting pardon itself is an admission of guilt! It's like a guilty plea.
Steve Bannon is GUILTY of fraud.
Roger Stone is GUILTY of witness tampering.
-because they accepted those pardons, they accepted the guilt.

We need to NEVER LET THAT BE FORGOTTEN!

Hieronymus: "You're a criminal who was convicted of fraud for defrauding your own followers"
Bannon: "I was pardoned."
Hieronymus: "That Means you're guilty!"

[Fiendish Thingy]

9. That's a common myth and not universally true

If a pardon is issued prior to an indictment, and an indictment never occurs because the prosecutors don’t want to waste their time, then there is never any public admission of guilt.

If a pardon is issued after an indictment, but before a conviction, it must be asserted in court, but the admission of guilt is typically implied rather than explicitly stated.

If a pardon is issued after a conviction, the fact that the defendant was found guilty remains, but the consequences (at least incarceration and jeopardy from future prosecution) of that crime are removed. That’s why fifth amendment rights are waived for pardoned individuals, and why Roger Stone specifically requested a commutation of his sentence (early termination) rather than a pardon, so he could keep his fifth amendment rights.

https://courtmartiallaw.com/military-law/if-you-accept-a-pardon-does-it-admit-guilt/

(Many, many more sources available to dispel the myth that pardons require acceptance of guilt)

[Hieronymus Phact]

10. Thaks for the clarification

IANAL
That was the nicest rain my parade has ever encountered!

[stopdiggin]

13. thanks. always appreciate a better understanding. -(nt)-

[wnylib]

25. Is a pardon valid if the person who

issues the pardon is involved in the same crimes as the people to whom the pardons are given?

[Fiendish Thingy]

27. Yes, but the pardoner May then be guilty of additional crimes

Such as obstruction or bribery.

[soldierant]

36. Might that not change if the pardon also did not go through the normal (I assume statutory)procedure

No one seems to think the Office of the Pardon Attorney was involved, and if it wasn;t, it's reasonable to assume steps were skipped (as opposed to being waived.)

[Fiendish Thingy]

37. AFAIK, The OPA is not a legal requirement for a presidential pardon

Because it is established in the constitution, but not defined, the president’s pardon power is pretty much absolute.

Trump could scribble “I pardon you” on a used McDonald’s wrapper, and it would probably stand up in court, within the established parameters for pardons ( e.g. no pardons for future crimes).

[TomWilm]

38. In Denmark when they give up an investigation ...

... you get a letter from the Ministry of Justice saying: "Sorry, we could not find a way to convict you for your actions".

No admission of their wrongdoing or grave mistakes, and no "We are sorry, we falsely tried"...

[True Blue American]

8. Perry was on One,or whatever

They call it saying he DID NOT ASK FOR A PARDON!

I am sensing a real turning point. The Senate is working on Electoral laws. They are being forced to change gun laws Trump and his thugs are being exposed. The Administration is tightening the screws on gougers. They are going after the big cartels in shipping. And Oil companies.

My store prices are slowly falling. More sales.

[durablend]

26. Praying they have receipts on Perry

And *hoping* Mastriano gets implicated in all this.

[boyedav1969]

11. Doom? I don't expect much in the way of political consequences for them

The zealots will vote for them regardless. Even if we get some indictments and maybe some convictions, I don't expect it to change the tack of their end-justifies-the-means supporters. Barring prison sentences, the most we can hope for is that they further alienate moderates/independents.

[RevBrotherThomas]

41. Again, MAYBE some of his cohorts or idiot spawn with go down

But TFG will never spend one day in custody. Ever.

He will hide under the bodies of his supporters if he has to. He will throw every family member, congressman, senator, governor, mayor, town councilman, pundit under the bus before he lets that happen (and because this is a cult, most will gladly do it).

His lawyers will obfuscate, delay, deny, and knot this up in every level of the legal system until LONG after he's gone.

[stopdiggin]

12. would that it were true .. -(nt)-

[wryter2000]

15. I can't wait for the list

There’s no serious problem with putting members of the House in jail. Ask Bob Ney. I would love to see all these traitors locked up. How about Jordan and Perry for starters?

[Captain Zero]

19. Oh please Jim Banks too.

Nancy kicked him off the J6 committee for a reason at the same time she kicked Gym Jordan off. He has to be involved. Please we need him locked up so we get him out of Indiana.

[MySideOfTown]

17. If congressmembers asked for a pardon

They should be indicted and if they invoke said pardon, barred from ever holding office again, per the 14th amendment.

[H2O Man]

18. Recommended.

[Hekate]

22. KnR

[TeamProg]

23. Thanks for posting. Guardian is simultaniously echoing Glenn Kirschner's take. n/t

[3825-87867]

24. Can a president pardon

a peaceful tour group?

[RobertDevereaux]

29. Here is Glenn Kirschner on the pardons and Kushner....

[ancianita]

31. If Trump is indicted, aren't his pardons legally considered corrupt based on indictment evidence

seen by the Office of the Pardon Attorney? It seems that either that office is itself corrupt, or the office would have no choice but to nullify the pardons.

[SWBTATTReg]

30. I wonder if they, having a consciousness of guilt in seeking pardons for who knows

what, but for at a minimum of guilt for some crime not yet known to us in the rest of the world, should be rounded up and sentenced automatically? This will save us tons of money and giving these losers a soapbox when one isn't desired or needed (they already admitted guilt, fine or sentence them! I know this seems rather harsh, unconstitutional and all, but they weren't worried so much about our Pres. Biden win, about our rights to our candidate winning, weren't worried about inciting the riot that killed good people caught in the crossfire.

Round them up, give them time to settle their affairs, yank them out of their elected offices, etc. After all, they had a higher duty to the Country and now we see exactly where and what they all were doing, supporting these worthless thugs in their insurrection. Biden, should, ironically declare an Insurrection instead and use this to go after these thugs.

Again, I know I am shooting the breeze but I am angered by the apparent disregard for our rights, our wins, our 81+ million votes vs. the 74 million (of which now I'm wondering just how many of these 74 million votes are those who voted multiple times, such as trump's lacky mark meadows and others?). And this is the so called 2nd major party in this Country that's doing these foul things (repugs).

I keep hearing more stories about those that voted multiple times when these hypocrites tried to accuse us of voter fraud, etc. when in fact, they were the ones doing the fraud.

[AntiFascist]

32. Jan. 6 Protest Organizers Say They Participated in 'Dozens' of Planning Meetings With...

Members of Congress and White House Staff

Two of these people have spoken to Rolling Stone extensively in recent weeks and detailed explosive allegations that multiple members of Congress were intimately involved in planning both Trump’s efforts to overturn his election loss and the Jan. 6 events that turned violent.
...
“I remember Marjorie Taylor Greene specifically,” the organizer says. “I remember talking to probably close to a dozen other members at one point or another or their staffs.”
...
Along with Greene, the conspiratorial pro-Trump Republican from Georgia who took office earlier this year, the pair both say the members who participated in these conversations or had top staffers join in included Rep. Paul Gosar (R-Ariz.), Rep. Lauren Boebert (R-Colo.), Rep. Mo Brooks (R-Ala.), Rep. Madison Cawthorn (R-N.C.), Rep. Andy Biggs (R-Ariz.), and Rep. Louie Gohmert (R-Texas).

“We would talk to Boebert’s team, Cawthorn’s team, Gosar’s team like back to back to back to back,” says the organizer.

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/exclusive-jan-6-organizers-met-congress-white-house-1245289/

Hopefully there's also evidence tying this to the Capitol tours the day before

[Whiskeytide]

40. There was open and freely admitted coordination between ...

… members of Congress (and their staff personnel) and organizers/planners of the protest/rally at the Ellipse. That’s very common and certainly not illegal. Hopefully we will see later this morning whether there is any real evidence of such coordination concerning the physical assault on the Capitol building and Congress.

[AntiFascist]

43. The article goes into detail about organizers warning against marching to the Capitol...

and how they were pissed when it happened. One key detail will be, who coordinated with the militia groups that were the so called "tip of the spear".

[bucolic_frolic]

34. Oh, yes, Guardian, logic and truth will prevail this time around