What Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger have done cannot be overstated.

[fightforfreedom]

Last edited Sun Jun 12, 2022, 01:16 PM - Edit history (1)

Forget politics, their political beliefs. History is going to remember them as courageous patriots. The Republicans goal was to have no Republicans serve on the committee. That would have made it very easy for them to attack an all Democrat committee. A political witch hunt. At first they wanted people like Jordan on the committee. Pelosi shot that down. After that they wanted no Republicans on the committee.

They put their careers on the line, have received death threats and had the courage to do what was right. They gave the committee legitimacy. Future generations of Americans are going to read about, hear about, Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger.

[Chipper Chat]

1. kick

[Hekate]

2. KnR

[rubbersole]

3. Patriotic, yes.

And (repulsive) serious conservative credentials. Just the name Cheney got a bunch of repubs to pay attention. She is going to make a difference in the outcome of this whole endeavor. Watch her be the gop nominee for president in '24. Scary, actually.

[Walleye]

6. If Cheney was the Republican nominee for president. That would signal return to sanity for the party

[HUAJIAO]

7. Uh, I would not go that far.

Nobody who holds the positions she does can be considered sane.

[Walleye]

8. Sure they're shitty political positions. But then there is treason. Much worse

[oldsoftie]

17. It would certainly signal the failure of the Trumpism virus to spread further

Whether I like her politics or not, removing trump from the landscape is the MOST important thing right now. Look at all the previous GOP presidents; is there ANY doubt that Trump makes all them look like JFK? He is a cancer on the US system of governance and he needs to be excised. His most rabid followers will slink back under the rocks they USED to hide under. Most anyway, because they wouldn't vote for "RINOs'

[Walleye]

18. That's all true. But Trump has this party in a death grip

[oldsoftie]

25. But I've seen cracks in that grip. Look at Kemp's victory. Raffensberger too.

While I expected Kemp to win, I NEVER thought it would be by 30+ points. And Raffensberger winning without a runoff was also a surprise. If Cheney can win her primary, that has to be seen as that grip getting weaker as well. She, kemp & Raffensberger have been trump's top 3 targets.
And, anecdotally, I've talked to a few people who I've known to be serious trump supporters in the past who have said things like "I sure hope he doesnt run in '24". One was just Friday; and she shocked me saying that. And its unprompted too.
BUT we cant count on that.... we should NEVER let up fighting him & his "picks".

[Tommymac]

30. She voted for TFG supported positions 90% of the time. THAT IS NOT SANITY.

I give her kudos for courage, and for defending the Constitution and The Rule of Law.

Otherwise, she is a conservative devil.

[calimary]

51. Yep. I'd hold back on the canonization.

She happens to be spot-on, in her work on the Jan 6 committee. But that may be about as far as it goes.

I’m no fan of hard-core conservatives. She’d have to change a lot of her positioning to win me over. She IS the proverbial broken clock that’s still right twice a day.

[Tommymac]

57. "She IS the proverbial broken clock that's still right twice a day."

Great analysis!!!!

[appmanga]

62. If Trump decides...

...to run again, I believe she will step in to oppose him.

[Walleye]

63. I'd like to see that primary race

[LiberalLovinLug]

14. If she managaged to run and win the nomination it would be very interesting.

But I think if that happened there'd be so many die hard Trump cultists still out there that would never support her, and still angry that she won the primary over DeSantis, or Trump if runs.

I also wonder if she could be officially stripped of her Republican party membership before any of that, and so could not even run for the nomination. They would do that if they could I'm sure. I just can't see the GOP allowing Cheney on stage with DeSantis or Trump.

But if she could and did run, she could get enough Never Trumpers Rs, Independents, and conservative leaning Democrats, to become the first female POTUS. I'm sure the GOP would pivot immediately and heap praises on themselves for accomplishing that.

And while I'd be concerned about such a war hawk in office, it would be a stabalizing force in the country to have the Republican party start to distance themselves from the radical elements. Stop legitimizing the poorly educated and their susceptibility to impossible conspiracy theories. It would also be interesting to see how Fox News and their imitators handle a more moderate R leader, especially with the extremists still screaming in their ears to Stop the Steal!!!!! and defend their master cult leader Donald Trump.

[rubbersole]

26. DeSantis and tfg are going to be gop baggage.

DeSantis is trailing in the polls to Crist in the Florida governor's race. I live in Orlando and his dystopian BS is alarming the few republicans I know. The homophobic attacks and book banning scare the shit out of them. I've played golf with them for 30+ years (we're all old farts). The covid response was beyond irresponsible, but this Nazi shit isn't working for responsible citizens. The shift in attitude is over a year old and getting stronger.

[ShazzieB]

40. Oh, that is REALLY good to hear!

DeSantis trailing in the polls AND scaring the crap out of long time Republicans is music to my ears.

[LiberalLovinLug]

55. Thanks for the update

Yeah and let’s face it the Orange God Baby is hell bent on being the Ruler again. I see no indications he is abdicating his throne to anyone anytime soon. He has an even bigger revenge list now to accomplish in his second term. That gives him the most thrills from the power, how cruel he can be to his enemies

[andym]

54. Not likely that she would be the nominee--she'll be lucky even to win the primary for her seat. nt.

[gab13by13]

4. No one, let me say that again, no one

has been more vocal in indicting Donald Trump than Liz Cheney.

[erronis]

19. I'd say "more pivotal" - the vocal indictments have been many from most Democrats.

[Martin Eden]

5. I hope you're right about future generations

That would mean democracy prevails over fascism and the work of the Jan 6 committee is important in that struggle.

[Baked Potato]

9. They are doing the right thing and that's refreshing. Nt

[towerbum]

10. this issue is on sedition & insurrection! not god damn politics !

probably get 403'd &

[Upthevibe]

11. fightforfreedom....I completely agree....

And, (IMHO) Representative Cheney was pitch perfect during the hearings.

Obviously, I can't imagine any Democrat agreeing with her policies but these are two separate issues.

She and Representative Kinzinger are upholding their duty to defend the Constitution. I think we'd be in a horrible, horrible situation now if it wasn't for Liz Cheney.

Thank you for your post.

[Norbert]

12. Both are articulate and have integrity.

I will disagree with both most of the time, but in the end I have hope they would do the right thing for the country, not their party.

[bucolic_frolic]

13. They are pursuing their political beliefs and stand to emerge as head of their party

So there is a little duality going on

[ancianita]

15. Nah. They just have the moral compass to live up to their oaths and do their job.

Sure, they're patriots compared to their party -- the low bar. But that's it.

Of course they put their careers on the line and withstand death threats; it comes with upholding one's oath.

I expect to see only a mention of their names in the whole paragraphs of history that the Democrats will occupy.

I gotta say, let's not overrate these two, along with the 10 of their party who voted to impeach trumpf.

We're deserving of every bit of bipartisan support we get.

We should be expecting bipartisanthip, not be grateful for it.

Why? Because they're supposed to uphold their oaths like we do!

[fightforfreedom]

21. I must disagree with you.

Believe me I am not a fan of Cheney and Kinzinger. I simply recognize what they have down has been very courageous, historic for these times.. Those two stood alone against the entire Republican Party. The death threats they have faced, I would not call normal. The political pressure they have faced, I would not call normal. This is a unique moment in history.

I think they will be remembered in a way like Goldwater is remembered. He was the Republican who told Nixon he must resign. that was historic and people remember it.

[ancianita]

27. Insofar as two years out of 234, I'll agree with you about where they stand "for these times."

And I already said they'll be remembered by mention in history, maybe even the way Goldwater is.

Sure, they've faced not normal pressure from oath betrayers in this unique moment in history, but they're supposed to no matter how bad these times are.

So my perspective is to stand with long term rule of law that overrides these times and shows them as doing what it takes to live up to their oaths of office.

[LudwigPastorius]

16. It's a sad day when doing the right thing is...

such high a bar for Republicans to pass that the two who do are “courageous”.

[TeamProg]

34. +1 !!!

[WhiskeyGrinder]

20. Lol good lord

[H2O Man]

22. Recommended.

I agree.

[Just A Box Of Rain]

23. I don't share their politics, but I have deep respect for the actions of...

Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger is standing unequivocally against the attempted coup.

[RevBrotherThomas]

60. The caveat of "not agreeing with their politics" is unnecessary

They're republicans, of course we don't. We're SUPPOSED to have political differences, nuanced debate, secure elections and the peaceful transfer of power. We don't have to like each other's politics to recognize that we are all Americans.

This isn't that.

What's going on now is a hair's breadth from civil war. The Republican party is gone. Cheney and Kinzinger are standing up as American citizens. Loudly. Publicly. And bravely.

[Just A Box Of Rain]

64. In my short stay on this forum I've endured the highly-unpleasant (and unique life experience)

of being called a right-winger and a tool of FOX News (WTF?) for holding very mainstream liberal Democratic positions. It has been quite shocking and upsetting.

This has not been completely the friendly liberal Democratic hangup promised in the TOS. Unfortunately.

So I felt the qualification was necessary. I think that's kind of sad. But....

[DFW]

24. The Loyal Opposition

A concept completely abandoned by most of the Republican party.

We should neither forget their loyalty, nor forget they are still the opposition. In a normally functioning democracy, they would be our staunch enemies.

I find it the height of irony that in normal times we would be tearing the both of them to shreds with our disdain for their stances, and yet here we are singing their praises for being what they should have been all along--just because most of their colleagues have gone completely whacko.

[ancianita]

28. +1

[fightforfreedom]

29. Completely whacko describes the Republicans and these times perfectly.

[Fla Dem]

31. I appreciate what both Cheney and Kinzinger did by taking a risk to to the right thing, but

isn't that what they should do regardless of the risk? It's just that the other members of their party kowtowed to the MAGA cult.

Their risk was no greater than any other committee member.

Police and firefighters do that everyday. Unlike the police in Uvalde who didn't do their job to enter that school and confront the killer. Sure it was risky, even life threatening, but it was their job, their responsibility. They did not live up to their responsibility, their oath.

Police who do risk their lives, often get no mention; maybe a plaque from the city/town, but for the most part, life goes on.

The Jan 6th committee members will get whatever accolades it deserves for a job well done.

If it does bring this Trump insurrectionist movement to a complete halt and identifies all the conspirators and enablers so the DOJ can prosecute them, then they will have done their job, met their responsibilities. If lauded in the history of the USA, then that's a good thing.

[Cozmo]

32. Doing the right thing is what is expected, lawmakers included not excepted.

That's is where I standards start

[TeamProg]

33. Liz Cheney perhaps b/c she's Vice Chair and comes from a political family, but Adam Kinzinger's name

will be a footnote before slowly evaporating off the front pages of general history, I'm afraid.

There is always only one Rosa Parks, Rodney King, George Floyd, Jackie Robinson, Shirley Chisholm, Martha Mitchell..

Besides, NOTHING that I've read suggests that what Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger have done has been UNDERstated, yet. So.. oh kay.. I read on anyway.

My hope is that TFG will be remembered as being SO GUILTY that the fact should have been obvious to everyone, let alone Liz and Adam. That should be the real story. The desolving of the Big Lie.

The J6 Committee will FOR SURE be remembered and archived, but NOT as something akin to the House Un-American Activities Committee (Commies / Reds/ later Joseph McCarthy) that the GOP is practically labeling it.

[titanicdave]

35. .....Spot On.....

....While I am no fan of their political views and such, I totally admire and am deeply grateful for Representative Liz Cheney and Representative Adam Kinzinger......

[Lunabell]

36. Great Americans and patriots are not just Democrats.

We have differences but the main similarity is we love this country and our democracy. There's our common ground.

[Orrex]

37. Every word I've heard from her re: the insurrection has been spot-on

She's a much needed reminder that it's still possible for someone to be a Republican without jamming their head up Trump's festering asshole.

[COL Mustard]

41. Unfortunately there are far too few of them

That party has gone off the rails.

[NNadir]

38. Ms. Cheney is a conservative, not a revolutionary trying to overthrow the government.

The "Party" to which she nominally belongs is not "conservative." It is a bunch of revolutionary racist thugs trying to overthrow the government to install a worthless immoral dictator to whom they have attached the same dogma that they used to attach to Jesus.

[COL Mustard]

39. I would probably disagree with 90%

Of Liz’s politics, but both are profiles in courage. I think Kinzinger is retiring and Liz may well lose her reelection bid, but that’s a small price to pay when you can keep your conscience clear. I don’t know how McConnell, Linseed or so many others can sleep at night.

[ProfessorGAC]

45. Adam Is Being Retired

Population loss & redistribution of same required new district maps.
The district he held is now incorporating more red areas to our west & south.
He could still win if the district were purplish, but it's getting redder.
He lives in a town (about 12 miles from here) that borders the biggest city in the county, so to the yahoos west & south, he's"urban elite".
Absent redistricting, he might have a chance. He wouldn't win the primary now, even though he destroyed primary challenges in the past. (Including a couple very well funded challenges after he told the Freedumb Caucus to get lost.)
He never said anything to suggest he might want to "retire" this young. His hand was forced.

[Stuart G]

42. K & R

[C Moon]

43. I believe you; but after trusting in Robert Mueller, I will no longer put faith in a Republican. nt

[myohmy2]

44. +1...

...they put our country over their party, careers and personal safety...

...it takes courage to do what they have done and I am eternally grateful they have done so...

...less courageous and honorable people would have found it very easy not to...

...they will be remembered as true patriots...

...as an American to an American, I thank you both...

...

[Hassler]

46. I disagree with almost every political view Cheney and Kinzinger hold,

But on loyalty to the Constitution and defending the Republic, I am proud to stand shoulder to shoulder with them.

[Skittles]

47. agreed

I despise repukes - they ALL suck - but what these two are doing is important.

[nini]

48. It's sad when a repub finally does one right thing we put them on a pedestal

The party is so toxic it's unusual to see any of them do what their oath of office requires.

[XanaDUer2]

50. this nt

[spanone]

49. True.

[bloom]

52. The hopeful outcome

...would be for Republicans to come to their senses, and for Cheney and Kinzinger to lead their party.

[Kid Berwyn]

53. It was an easy choice.

[milestogo]

56. Imagine realizing that 100 years from now you'll be in the history books as a traitor

who tried to overthrow your own country's democracy.

All those who did wrong and asked for a pre-emptive pardon will be remembered for nothing else.

[ecstatic]

58. I hope you're right but right now repugs are trying to be the ones

who write the history books. They're trying to block children from learning our complete history. If we don't defeat their fascist movement, history will be whatever they say it is.

[kentuck]

59. If they were not on the Committee...

The Republicans would be much more aggressive in attacking the investigation as a "partisan witch hunt", I have no doubt.

[seta1950]

61. I think

They’re just doing what any American who loves his or her country should. I very naively expected some to say , I don’t care if I lose, but I will defend my country. BOY WAS I DISAPPOINTED ☹️