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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region Forums6 Ways You're Contributing To Abortion Stigma Without Realizing It
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/abortion-stigma-reasons_l_628a8d03e4b0933e7366f937A bombshell Supreme Court draft opinion leaked in May confirmed long-standing fears that the courts conservative majority could strike down Roe v. Wade, the 1973 ruling that made abortion a constitutional right.
If the landmark decision is overturned, it would allow states to dramatically restrict or even ban abortion for millions of Americans.
The courts official ruling is expected to come within the next month. With Roe v. Wade hanging in the balance, its critical that we do what we can to destigmatize abortion and protect the right to have one.
To that end, we asked doctors and advocates to reveal the ways we may be perpetuating abortion stigma without even realizing it.
1. Not saying the word abortion and using euphemisms instead.
When you use euphemistic language like reproductive rights or the right the choose to avoid saying abortion, it makes it seem like its a bad or dirty word.
*snip*
Hugh_Lebowski
(33,643 posts)I think the euphemisms are a better choice (see what I did there?), myself.
inthewind21
(4,616 posts)Are BS
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,304 posts)Hugh_Lebowski
(33,643 posts)than saying abortion, abortion, abortion every single time you refer to the concept, which is what this seems to suggest.
MHO, just how I personally feel. Feel free to decide differently for yourself.
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,304 posts)Hugh_Lebowski
(33,643 posts)Hugh_Lebowski
(33,643 posts)hand-wringing, PC/Language police stuff that us liberals are absolutely famous for.
The didactic premise of the article sorta bugs me to be honest.
But to each their own.
As I said I didn't read the other 5 so I'm not necessarily disagreeing with all, that was someone else who did that.
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,304 posts)Hugh_Lebowski
(33,643 posts)of what I might best describe as feeling like we're expending an excessive amount of time/energy/capital bemoaning people's 'word choices'.
The focus on such minutae, when there's so much that seems more important, troubles me at times. Like it's a distraction that, while it drives clicks and views and a collective decrying of 'OMG, I can't believe s/he said THAT! You're supposed to say THIS!' type of thing, ultimately feels a bit petty. And I don't think it's a great 'look' for us, collectively.
An awful lot of people who we'd like to attract to our side ... end up just rolling their eyes at us over it.
Again, MHO.
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,304 posts)I read it as a way to strengthen our arguments at a time when abortion is at the forefront. To me, for example, understanding that calling it a "choice" means little when access is so limited because of physical, financial and/or social barriers is an important part of the fight. And that saying "abortion is a hard decision" reinforces the idea that it's a hard decision that should be delayed and agonized over, when it reality the vast majority of people who choose to get and then have an abortion find it straightforward and, in the end, a relief. To me, this article was less about word choice and more about how certain ways of framing are actually harmful in the debate, when people think they're being good advocates.
Hugh_Lebowski
(33,643 posts)I may've agreed with some, at least to some degree, had I read them all.
This other one you cite, I agree more with ... but I also see the value of the opposite position ... in some cases.
Intelligent, liberal people in the past came up with these arguments and alternative phrasings, and I think they have still have value.
Overall it's not as cut and dry as saying 'you undermine our collective efforts when you use these'.
In the end, 'knowing your audience' is probably the most key factor in deciding the best word choices/phrases.
Hugin
(33,032 posts)Last edited Wed Jun 15, 2022, 08:59 AM - Edit history (2)
Blowing an unticketed passenger out of the airlock. Mainly reserved for cases of rape and/or incest.
LakeArenal
(28,798 posts)I also did not make it past the first one.
I dont know if its on the list but
Its not pro abortion as Olberman and other liberals call it. Its a womans choice. Pro or not pro abortion.
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,304 posts)Nevilledog
(50,983 posts)WhiskeyGrinder
(22,304 posts)ChazII
(6,200 posts)Hekate
(90,529 posts)I made it up, so it works. For me.
Thank you, Nevilledog, for the OP and the link. Thought-provoking.
Caliman73
(11,722 posts)There is no problem and no stigma in my mind with abortion. It is a medical procedure. There is a pro-choice and anti-choice side. Within the pro-choice side you have pro-abortion and simply pro-choice. Not everyone on the pro-choice side wants abortions or promotes them. They just want people who can get pregnant to have the choice to carry or to abort pregnancies at their discretion.
Binary thinking seems to be the purview of Conservatives. We should not get sucked into that line of thinking.
It is not my business to decide whether access to abortion is available. I or someone else may not think abortion is the right choice personally, but anyone who wants an abortion for whatever reason, should have access to a safe medical procedure.
It is about reproductive choice. A pregnant person and whoever they decide to be involved have that choice as to whether or not to carry the pregnancy to term and have a baby. They can carry to term, or terminate the pregnancy with an abortion. Whatever they choose, it is about their reproductive rights and right to choose. There is no conflict between identifying the issue and the terminology for terminating the pregnancy.
The author seems to conflate, naming the issue and the procedure.
Claire Oh Nette
(2,636 posts)This.
THe crux of the issue
in a nutshell.
Hugh_Lebowski
(33,643 posts)Raine
(30,540 posts)Solly Mack
(90,758 posts)Joinfortmill
(14,378 posts)Never talk about it. Too painful, too difficult, too everything.
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,304 posts)It's also important to remember that is not a universal experience when it comes to abortion.
Response to Nevilledog (Original post)
Joinfortmill This message was self-deleted by its author.
Martin68
(22,755 posts)because "using coat hanger imagery or terms like 'back-alley' is not used as a criticism of abortion. It refers to the consequences of outlawing abortion and forcing women to risk their lives to get a "back alley" abortion. I used to read the Huffington Post regularly, but not since it changed hands in 2011.
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,304 posts)and/or self-managed abortions aren't necessarily nearly as dangerous as they were 50 years ago, thanks to the mif/miso protocol. An illegal abortion in the coming months is much more likely to look like pills received in the mail or delivered by a friend, and it's important to talk about how the risks are much more likely to be legal rather than physical. There will always be desperate people who try to self-abort through dangerous ways. There are now. But illegal abortions are and will be a lot different than they used to be in this country, and ignoring that fact stigmatizes abortion and may scare people away from self-managing an illegal but safe abortion.
iemanja
(53,010 posts)Which should not be assumed, not with the overturn of Roe. It seems to me that striking that language does more to arm abortion foes that anyone else. Underplaying the consequences of the abolition of abortion is not smart.
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,304 posts)time. If the pills come from a reputable supplier, they are safe, even if they are illegal. Of course, underground markets are iffy. But we do have some advantages compared to 50 years ago.
Martin68
(22,755 posts)You can believe there will be fake pills for sale to those women, too. When abortion is illegal, it hurts lower income people the most, and sometimes that looks like a back alley solution. I'm more worried about hurting lower income women than stigmatizing abortion. Forced birth advocates don't care what language we use, they will still press on for more restrictions, including birth control. Making abortion illegal will result in some dangerous solutions for many women.
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,304 posts)Whether it's illegal or legal, a self-managed abortion using mif/miso is very safe, and is easier to keep safe even if it becomes illegal. I know antis don't care what language we use, but it's important to not scare potential patients off illegal-but-safe options, which will be more widespread than they were in the early 70s.
ShazzieB
(16,265 posts)I was a bit put off by the first item on the list, but I was curious enough to click on the link and see what else was there. I'm glad I did, because I ended up agreeing with a lot of it, and the parts I didn't agree with gave me some worthwhile things to thing about.
There was one item in particular that really hit home for me.
It may be a hard choice to make for some women, but for others, deciding to have an abortion may not be difficult at all.
For some people it is very clear and they dont have to think about it. Such language may make someone feel like they are a bad person if it was an easy decision for them, Upadhyay said, citing the Landmark Turnaway Study she co-authored that found that five years after an abortion, more than 95% of patients said it was the right choice for them.
Plus, assuming that having an abortion was a hard choice suggests that terminating a pregnancy is a moral issue requiring an ethical debate, news analyst Janet Harris 0wrote for the Washington Post.
To say that deciding to have an abortion is a hard choice implies a debate about whether the fetus should live, thereby endowing it with a status of being, which puts focus on the fetus rather than the pregnant person, she said.
As a result, the question What kind of future would the woman have as a result of an unwanted pregnancy? gets sacrificed, Harris wrote.
As Harris pointed out, the situation may be difficult navigating state laws, finding a clinic and paying for the abortion but the decision itself is often straightforward.
This REALLY jumped out at me, because I am one of those women for whom it was not a difficult choice at all. As soon as I thought I might be pregnant, I knew exactly what I was going to do about it, if so.
I didn't have any qualms about whether it was a a moral or ethical choice, because it literally never occurred to me that it might not be. I was never taught to believe anything in particular about it, one way or another. I was in my teens before I ever even heard the word "abortion," and when I first encountered it in a magazine article, I had to ask my mother what it meant. (Her reply was completely straightforward and factual, bececause she had never received any indoctrination, either.)
When second wave feminism came along and made legalizing abortion one of the linchpins of what was then popularly known as "women's liberation," I embraced the movement, including that aspect of it, with no qualms whatsoever.
I was a college student and had been a self-identified feminist for several years when I was faced with an unplanned and unwanted pregnancy, and the decision to seek an abortion was automatic for me. And here I am, 50 years later, uneasy about admitting that, even in a place like DU, where I know that accepting and supporting a woman's right to choose is the norm.
The situation itself was a major pita, and someday, I am going to write the full story and put it someplace where people can read it. For now, suffice it to say that it was 1972, so abortion was still illegal in most of the U.S., and even THAT was only the tip of the iceberg. NOTHING about the situation was simple, even confirming that I was pregnant. (There was no such thing as a home pregnancy test, and there was still a significant enough stigma attached to being an "unwed mother" that going to a doctor to get tested was a very unappealing prospect.)
So yeah, the situation was complicated and fraught, but the decision, for me, was anything but. And yet, I am always hesitant to admit the latter, because of the generally accepted assumption that abortion is ALWAYS an agonizing decision. (The implication of which is that anyone who does not find it to be so must be some kind of amoral freak.)
I know that it IS a difficult decision for some, and I respect that. I just wish people would realize that every pregnant person is an individual, and every individual is just that: a unique individual with their own individual set of circumstances, challenges, beliefs, etc., all of which influence their approach to every decision in life, including the choice to terminate a pregnancy.
Sorry this is so darned long. I swear, I really did try to whittle it down!
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,304 posts)niyad
(113,021 posts)Rights And Issues as its own OP, for visibility and so it can be rec'ed? Thanks in advance.
ShazzieB
(16,265 posts)Bit I think I'd like to write up an expanded version for that purpose, so it may be a day or two. 😊
niyad
(113,021 posts)it so well.
Torchlight
(3,292 posts)Every day, I'm given new perspectives and sometimes, like this one, it forced me to reevaluate givens I've never thought twice about. Thanks!
qwlauren35
(6,145 posts)Always have been, always will be. I think abortion should ALWAYS be an option that a woman considers when she has an unexpected pregnancy. I think abortion should be at the top of the pile, and only when extenuating circumstances are in place should a woman consider carrying the child to term. Maybe if she is white, healthy, and believes that the baby can be adopted. Maybe if she has financial resources. Maybe if the father of the child has financial resources and is on board to support the child. In those circumstances, MAYBE you should consider bringing the child to term.
But otherwise, no.
Pro-Life people may try to brainwash people with bullshit about "it has a heartbeat" or "it can feel pain". Nope, as long as it's in MY body, using up MY resources, I have the RIGHT to get it OUT of my body. And if it's not viable outside of my body, then it simply was not meant to be.
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,304 posts)qwlauren35
(6,145 posts)Is that the entire family is on-board to support the child instead of "the father". I think it's completely unfair for a child to bring a child to term and expect the parents to pitch in without asking them first. Only a father can sire a child. So, heteronormative makes sense to me. Most times when two women are having a child, the child is planned. I was talking about unplanned children.
As for white people and babies, non-white babies are less likely to be adopted. So if you are thinking of bringing a child to term and putting it up for adoption, rather than abort, because of some religious belief, then having adoptive parents lined up early is important. Otherwise, we're talking foster parents and orphanages. Not fair to the child.
And yes, this makes me a "eugenicist" in some respects. I believe in fewer unplanned children. I believe that only people in committed relationships should have children, especially unplanned children. I also believe that no unmarried girl in school should bring a child to term.
Racist? I guess. Classist? I guess. Heteronormative? I guess. Eugenicist? I guess.
I have seen the results of young women without means, without father support, bring unplanned children into the world. It falls on the parents, and that's not fair. If the parents believe in this, accept this, possibly expect this, WELCOME this, then fine. If the parents resent this, then not fine.
Blaukraut
(5,692 posts)While informed people know that when someone says "I'm pro abortion" doesn't mean the person wants all pregnancies to be terminated, it is still a problematic way to phrase being in favor of reproductive freedom for women, no matter what.
If we want allies, we can't alienate a large number of people who would cringe at the terminology.
Ilsa
(61,690 posts)and, "If you let them tell you that you can't, you are giving them permission to tell you when you must."
But in summary, I'm pro-choice when it comes to abortion.
Lancero
(3,002 posts)Lot of people just toss abortion access in under Womens Rights, and don't even think about how transphobic and exclusionary it is.
Behind the Aegis
(53,918 posts)Want an abortion? I support the choice.
Don't want an abortion? I support the choice.
drmeow
(5,012 posts)spot on but others are very context specific, in particular the first one.
On edit - also, "contributing to stigma" is not the same as "threatening the loss of." Stigma is not the only, or even the biggest, problem with abortion. The biggest problem with abortion is an issue of equality - are women equal or are they beneath men. No way in which we talk about abortion will change that.
These suggestions are good when speaking one-to-one with women who have had an abortion or have just learned they are pregnant. They may to apply to policy discussions or activism.