Trump and the Unspeakable

[H2O Man]

“Sociopaths are attracted to politics because the see it as a sphere in which you can be ruthless and step all over people. That fact that some politicians can tell such awful lies is another example of sociopathy. Sociopaths lie—they see nothing wrong with it.”
― Alexander McCall Smith, The Revolving Door of Life


Malaise posed two questions to start an interesting and important OP/thread two days ago Here is the link to it:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=16796605

As happens when I read something of interest, I found myself thinking about it last night, when I watched the second Committee hearing for a third time. Indeed, I was thinking about it this morning, while watching highlights of yesterday's hearing on various news reports.

Malaise asked how a self-absorbed individual could do so much damage, and how so many numbskulls could join forces with him? Those are serious questions, deserving serious answers. I'd like to take a minute to expand upon what I said there, which was "a sociopath with access."

Ancient DU readers know that I like to use models to illustrate human dynamics. Today, the reader can pick an atom or solar system. A sociopath is at the center, and their gravitational force frequently brings others into their orbit. Erich Fromm goes into amazing detail about this in his 1973 classic, "The Anatomy of Human Destructiveness." The closest beings to that center will be those who we know as having anti-social personality disorders. Let's just call them criminals, shall we?

The next layer will be potential criminals, usually men and women who are okay with what they often call "bending the rules," and we'll call lower level criminal behaviors. Then clusters of shit-dust entities, that want to wear uniforms and legally torture and kill human beings. These are those that stormed the Capital. Finally, there are Don, Jr. and Eric Trump, who enjoy killing defense animals on an African safari.

Having worked in forsensic mental health, especially in running the weekly county jail group, domestic abuse groups, and with some fellows released from state prison for a short vacation, I encountered a number of sociopaths. (Hint: they always try to disrupt groups.) They spanned the range from really fucking stupid to moderately intelligent. Yet they all shared an inability to really think ahead of the consequences of their destructive behaviors, something that led to not only self-destructiveness, but caused damage for the idiots around them. And for perfectly innocent people with the bad luck of being in their way.

Trump is really not much different that the fellows and one female sociopath I worked with. He might dress differently -- for now -- but the only real difference is that the social station he was born into allowed him to buy access. That included access to high society and to the media. Without the money, Trump is at best an inmate in the county jail. This, despite his uncle being a professor.

Much of high society rejected Trump as a buffoon. An obnoxious asshole. They were, of course, correct. This brings us to some of the republicans we witnessed providing testimony to the J6 Committee. Unlike in other countries, Trump did not have absolute power, such as his idol Putin has. Hence, when they witnessed his attempts to obtain that level of power, one of two things happened: they either quit or were fired.

But our system of government is distinct from Putin's Russia or Saddam's Iraq. It was preparing to eject the toxins from its system, based upon the 2020 election. The J6 Committee is documenting the multi-step effort of Team Trump to remain entrenched, despite the law. And we all know what happened as a result.

What we don't know yet is the extent of Russian influence. This isn't limited to what we know happened in thec 2016 presidential campaign. However, I shall reprise a lyric used in posts here back then ..... Trump and Putin are both white nationalists. Putin has the support of the white nationalists in Russia, which are para-military militias. And white nationalists in the US creamed their jeans when Trump was elected. He believed he could use them much like Putin does.

There are links, currently being investigated by the DOJ, regarding the linkages between the Russian and US white nationalist groups -- including "training" one of the Russian groups provided to at least one of the groups involved in the insurrection. I think at least one forum member posted about these connections recently.

If anyone has read this far, it should encourage you to work like hell to make sure we win the November elections. Our system of government is actually designed to prevent a Trump or his cult members from grabbing power. But our system depends upon the active involvement of its citizens.

Peace,
H2O Man

[MerryBlooms]

1. r&k Excellent. ❤

[H2O Man]

5. Thank you!

[cilla4progress]

2. Bookmarking

Thank you.

I agree that loser 45 and putin are fascists in arms.

We know that putin funds the NRA. His MO is to sow chaos.

His stink is all over this!

[H2O Man]

7. Huge point

per the NRA. Complete with a pot of honey. And the trips republicans take to Russie.Thank you!

[usonian]

3. Control what you can control. GOTV. Links and suggestions below.

I have looked into cult, addictive, genocidal behavior, mostly as a survival tool.
My posts hopefully cover "just enough" to understand causes and symptoms, and hopefully shake loose some fringe followers.
The deeply deranged are beyond help. Since they are brainwashed to take violent action, authorities are obliged to take action when they do, not always in time, unfortunately.

They need professional help.

My idea is that by exposing contradictions, as with cult membership and the more "mainstream" followers we hear about, enough contradiction, or outright betrayal, as cult leaders will do, will shake enough loose to make a difference, and our elections often turn on a small number. For example:

Every Accusation is a Confession
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100216777247

I AM NOT AN ANALYST! Just trying to understand and strategize, and message.
Professionals, correct me if any of this is off the rails.

In any and every event, GOTV


DON'T WAIT OR SPECULATE. Stand Up and GOTV! Joe Biden needs more senators and reps.
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100216798636


P.S. I just posted some amateur shrink work to fightforfreedom's thread and multigraincracker's reply on cognitive dissonance.
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100216802363
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100216802363#post7

A while back, I was researching "Controllers" ... long story short, think co-dependence.

That led me to books by Anne Wilson Schaef. The Addictive Organization, When Society Becomes an Addict.

Point is that the manifestations of addiction are very similar to what we see in cults, including the RepubliQan cult.

Real short, here are some. Sure sound familiar!
Projection
Denial
Confusion
Self-Centeredness
Dishonesty
Perfection ( demand it from others, i.e. "what about?" )
Scarcity model (not enough of that 1% of scraps the rich leave you, to go around)
Dualism (you versus me, no middle ground
Judgmentalism ....

Cults reject any conflicting information. Words are weapons with no relation to truth. They only serve to reinforce the cult's existence.
(And breakaways, from other reading, seem to occur mostly from "hitting rock bottom", a sense of betrayal by leaders, or more contradiction than the person can deny away.)

HTH!!

[H2O Man]

8. Very good!

And very impressive!

Reading this outstanding post reminded me of a couple things. I'm on a break from gardening, and will try to write more later. But .....

One of the things that Onondaga Chief Paul Waterman stressed was that we be friendly towards our opposition, some of whom were enemies. To make clear we were not threatening them with harm. But rather, that after listening to their concerns, and evaluating them, we think differently. Very differently.

Now, as you note, with Trump cult members, it isn't likely many here want to interact with them. And that is okay, and no doubt a good thing in many cases. I know people who have stopped interacting with relatives, old friends, neighbors, and/or co-workers. And for mighty good reason. I may be the only one on DU that is comfortable talking with these people. It reminds me more than a bit of "community crisis" work I did at mental health. Psychotic people tend to respond best to calm, friendly, non-threatening interventions. Still, many of those did require that law enforcement take the lead, and my role was secondary.

Related to this is the fact that somewhere between about 10 to 20% of republicans who supported Trump before the insurrection -- and that is on top of those who had quit the party between 2016 and 2020 -- will no longer support him. It's very, very unlikely that he could win in 2024, even if he actually won the republican primaries. But you post reminds us that other cult members and Trump impersonators are running for the House and Senate. Tying the decaying carcass of Trump around their neck is important. Pointing out the insanity. And using humor to do so!

[jaxexpat]

24. "And using humor to do so!" Instinctually, that seems right to me.

Does data, in your opinion, support comedy as a provider of useful sopor for this malady? It acts, after all, like a contagion which causes fantasy to supplant reality. This Trumpism. Attracting susceptible hu-moths to the flame, where they are inevitably destined to perish. Does the visceral connection of humor, comedy, laughter predictably retrieve people from the wholly dark and evidentiary vision which culminates with absolutism, authoritarianism?

[usonian]

32. I have mostly relied on pointing out contradiction

and that assumes that your correspondent is logical.

And in fact, most of what we see is comedy of the absurd contradictory. IMO, projection and denial to support the group identity.

Now, humor, is often based on contradiction, or at least the unexpected. (thinks back to Stooges crossing water pipes with electrical wires).

And while I want to say that I don't lean on comedy a lot, I actually do. I GIMP a lot of photos ( I don't use photoshop) and post maybe 1/10 of the replies that I am tempted to.

But I mostly preach them to the choir here. I think that the contradiction can have a wider impact.

And beyond the mere logical contradiction is the fact that all this nonsense is self-defeating, under the guise of "I'm a winner", which is a big part of the magic show.

More links here:
https://democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=16797252
Many are JUST NOT AWARE of the scam that oligarchs, politicians and Qvangelical "ministers" are pullng on them.
Makes Kool-Aid look tame.

Private jets, Lolita Island, Trillion Dollar fraud, lies and zombie behavior ( "It's a party of NOTHING" ) notwithstanding.
Just "deep fried pawns"

[H2O Man]

35. Very well said!

For some reason, it reminded me of Trump's comments about his flock getting tired of winning. There is a source for making a few jokes.

I find most of the cult can understand the very simple -- for example, Amendment 2 is not intended to protect the right of a shithead to engage in a mass shooting. It is the second step that they tend to experience great difficulty in making.

[H2O Man]

34. Good question.

What I suggested is using humor to influence the thinking of the undecided, with the target being the cult members and Trump impersonators running for Congress. I'm thinking of two ways ..... the one that I think works best with younger people is, not surprisingly, the type that the YIPPIES used back when I was young. It tended to get young people interested in participating, rather than the withdrawal that was common among the hippies. I think the proper use to humor can angage the younger generations.

The second type has an even sharper edge: the satire of, say, a Mark Twain. Not that any of us are at his level, but that tends to appeal to another audience. There is Dave Chappelle, who frequently combines the two. He is in my opinion the funniest person of this generation, and always seems to make important points in his routines. Again, none of us are on that level. But these types are useful.

I might use some humor in talking to delusional Trump cult people. (I did not when working with psychotic individuals, though.) One would have to evaluate if it is effective with those individuals or groups, case by case.

In debates in front of a mixed audience, I always tried to include some humor. Kind of making fun of the opponent, trusting this would anger them. I found that to be both useful and fun.

[jaxexpat]

37. Pretty much answers my question. Thanks.

[H2O Man]

52. Thank you!

[usonian]

54. Great stuff.

Mark Twain is one of my heroes. People should ask themselves who their heroes (archetypes) are. Worst answer I got was "none" and that's pretty depressing. Anyway, I do appreciate different forms of humor. Dry humor can be hard to share. And I've been blamed for a few droughts here.

The "Every Accusation is a Confession" contradiction can be rough-edged, but hopefully, it rings a bell or two. One might be enough to break the spell, and I think that for the non-deranged, maybe that's all it takes. Like blowing up "trickle-down economics". What rubbish. Disproven, and it's truly "golden showers" instead.

But the more "over the top" humor might be great!
WE NEED TO COMMUNICATE WITH YOUTH.
WE'RE FIGHTING FOR THEIR DAMN FUTURE.
https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=16772624
Short of it:

They DON'T LISTEN to AM Hate Radio
They DON'T WATCH Fox Hate Television
They DON'T FOLLOW hate groups on social media.
They're trying to live their own lives.

And they're being gunned down by RWNutjobs.

HEY OLD FARTS OF 30 or so years (or lots more)
THE FUTURE IS THEIRS
GIVE THEM ONE by urging them to vote.
THEY'VE GOT TO CLAIM IT.

----

Footnote: One or two kinds of humor should be enough to get the ball rolling.
For some mental problem I have, I actually remember reading about "J. Peterson and the difference between cynicism and irony." ( From "Seinfeld and Philosophy" )

Cynicism is the problem and it's rampant here. Give me some irony and I can make something helpful out of it. Requests for photo-edits are welcome. Anything to keep me from the house-reorganization project I am committed to. Such as the "WINNER"


Had the stuffing removed, it seems.

[H2O Man]

57. Ha!

I didn't see that picture until I finished reading your post! Beautiful!

Many decades ago, my oldest brother & I were visiting our maternal grandfather. My brother mentioned Twain, and Pappy then quizzed us on what works we were familiar with. My brother had recently sent his copy of some collected works to Rubin in the Rahway State Prison. Pappy scoffed and said we hadn't really been introduced to Twain. He went and hot an old book of Twain's essays that society didn't consider proper. We both ended up reading it, and were so impressed that this book also was sent to Carter. He loved it, too!

The vast majority of the times Trump accused others of misconduct, it proved to be projection.

[usonian]

66. I am kind of new here but I learned one trick.

It is hard to find my posts in the context of so many others in the thread. A fun picture acts like a bookmark.

FWIW, that was the "worst 49er Thanksgiving Day football game ever" and Richard Sherman made mincemeat of them. He later signed with the 49ers and did Yeoman work. I recall that he was sitting down munching on a turkey leg tapping fists with Russell Wilson. Another version of the photo had Jim Harbaugh in the serving platter. Original idea? From Cosmo Kramer, of course.



Open to ideas. I created the "DU for Ukraine" logo for Omaha Steve, and damn proud of it.

Best thread ever. Not just because I posted several times.

[usonian]

28. Thanks! I took a photgraphy break, two actually. It's THAT time.

Wild Mule-Ear daisies are going bonkers. And I live on a ridge, so hitting the various patches of them requires lots of ups and downs, about 5 flights of stairs worth. Thank goodness, mostly on clear paths, though not all. Phew! You can see some of my stuff in the Photography group.

I don't interact with many people, being in the woods, but in the past, I have worked in a wild variety of places, from service time, aerospace, where people believed in doing away with the aged and infirm, to (next stop) Cal Berkeley. In another post I quoted the Lotus Sutra section on the Buddha's nemesis Devadatta, and how he, too attained Buddhahood. It's NOT "forgiveness", it's true equality, more my belief system.

And people probably forget all the changes we went through in the 60's, and most notably, how you can find me "yelling" at neer-do-wells to GET A HAIRCUT AND SHAVE and so on.

Things change.

One has to respect people who act on sincere and reciprocal beliefs ( not "OK for me but not for you" ) but the cult stuff, from what I've read on Q-ism, 10-15% max of some population (I forgot) is beyond me. I just try to understand the causes (mostly group identity, and that gets back almost always to racism) and try to think of ways to lessen its reach.

Joe Biden is actually doing "the right thing" with his kindness (give or take what's politically necessary to call out).

That's why cults close down information from the "outside" .. so they can re-image kindness as hate. (proejection)

Later.

[erronis]

67. I'm so enjoying your posts. Lots of personal history and dialog. You and H2Oman are a great team.

Personally, I've never been one thing or another. I've always just taken the path that opened up and seemed OK at the time.

I'm reaching those end-of-life years with not much to show other than uninteresting (to others and to myself) vignettes. Along the way I've met kings and presidents and movie stars but never aspired to be anything than a very low-level inventor/tinkerer(software engineer). I'm not sure I'd change my original course way back when, even if I could.

At the end, all I want to do is be kind and thoughtful. When it's possible.

[usonian]

68. What? I'm on a roll at 73.

I worked in electronics and optics and moved to computer admin when computers took over the world. Meet some Nobel laureates at Berkeley ( and my undergrad advisor at Tufts, my goodness. ) Other than that, the great Sully!!

Built my own Imsai and Altair systems when they were the new thing, and that experience paid off handsomely.

The Imsai still exists.

Not a specialist, I went with the flow for the most part, demanding a lot of flexibility and learning. At Sun Microsystems, I was the engineer on a sales team and learned all I could about business and psychology. That has helped me understand how things actually work.

I keep more than busy with providing insight to DU, , photography ( I moved to a photographer's paradise, or nearly so) and piano, which I am not so good at, but I enjoy the effort.

What the world really needs is more kindness and thoughtfulness! I chose Buddhism because it addresses the root causes of all suffering, and by the way, agrees with the latest theories in physics. But that's for another group here.

I am pretty isolated, which is not good, and sharing, especially my photos, helps. Might just move to the coast.

I wouldn't trade this life for any other, because my wonderful kid is part of it. Speaking of Father's Day. Ha, Ha.

My perspective is that we're in the Twilight Zone time machine, returned to 1938, with a chance to stop naziism. I am doing all I can.

[malaise]

41. Thanks

Very informative

[Faux pas]

4. Saving

to read later when my mind is fresher

[H2O Man]

10. Thank you!

[spanone]

6. ...K&R...

[H2O Man]

11. Thanks!

[Permanut]

9. Great post..

My first exposure to the psychology of psychopaths was from Hoffer's 1951 book.

“The quality of ideas seems to play a minor role in mass movement leadership. What counts is the arrogant gesture, the complete disregard of the opinion of others, the singlehanded defiance of the world.”


― Eric Hoffer, The True Believer: Thoughts on the Nature of Mass Movements

[H2O Man]

12. Perfect!

I remember talking with my late friend Rubin Carter about this general topic. He said it is important to be aware that these are groups of unconscious organic machines, being controlled by an outside force. I think that fits Hoffer's insights on the lack of need for quality ideas, as groups of unconscious machines are fueled by emotions, not reason. Hence, they always become destructive, and eventually self-destruct.

[Solomon]

13. As usual...

They're going to wind up PROVING Russian collusion, but at levels we never imagined!

[H2O Man]

14. I think so.

It is one of the reasons I think the DOJ will indict & prosecute people from the White House ..... not on the Russian part specifically, but because of the threat level. They'll go for the things a jury is most likely to grasp and hence convict on.

[dlk]

29. Yes and I think the Russians have been infiltrating and bribing for years

They’ve been at this for decades.

[H2O Man]

36. Definitely.

[dlk]

30. Yes and I think the Russians have been infiltrating and bribing for years

They’ve been at this for decades.

[ancianita]

15. Thank you.

Very instructive about negative magnetic force, which I take to be mistaken for 'power over' in contrast to 'consent of' the governed. One is not concerned with governing, the other is.

[H2O Man]

17. Thanks!

Well said! That is it in a nut shell.

[FailureToCommunicate]

16. Excellent analysis as usual. We must GOTFV !!

[H2O Man]

18. Thank you!

Getting out the vote is essential. And it is a potential that is available to us. I think that focusing upon the most important issues of the day makes this the most likely to upset the usual mid-term trend.

[Duncan Grant]

19. How can systems best protect themselves from sociopaths?

Food for thought regarding sociopaths: I’m wondering if “defensive” guidelines for personal relationships are transferable to a systems analogy. Once sociopaths gain any kind of real power, they generate their own weather. It’s all predictable but controlling it? Repairing the damage? God, that’s tough work.

[H2O Man]

39. Great question.

One of the first things needed is an awareness of what sociopathy is, and the range of sociopaths out there. Even then, many professionals get fooled once. Possibly more. I include myself and a talented co-worker one time. It was the one female that I encountered in forensic work.

Being able to recognize certain traits and behaviors is essential, I think, in both our daily lives, and in the realm of politics. Still, too many people get fooled, even when these traits and behaviors are identified by an expert. I'm thinking of the wonderful book "The Dangerous Case of Donald Trump," with numerous experts in the field adding contributions. I still think my three-part interview with Dr. Bandy Lee that I posted here in 2020 stands strong. In the first one, we discussed the fact that Trump is a sociopath; in the second, described the nature of his cult; and in the third, predicted the J6 violence.

[calimary]

20. DEFINITELY a keeper.

[H2O Man]

40. Thank you!

[Karadeniz]

21. Your model is completely correct! There is, on this and other planes, a Law of Attraction. I have

experienced it myself on the soul level, the insatiable desire to join the soul's source, souls in ranked concentric circles around the source, placement dependent upon the similarity of the soul's nature to the source's nature.

I have only heard of this law with respect to earthbound souls... they are apparently attracted to their comfort zone.

I'm sorry to get all paranormal, but I was so excited to see you apply this Law of Attraction to the here and now, something I have concluded myself. We just call the participants by different names.

[jaxexpat]

26. The here and now and the eternal. Is there really a difference?

Appreciate you.

[H2O Man]

44. No difference.

We are participants in the eternal "Now." It's our turn.

[Karadeniz]

63. Thank you! You may have a point. In my Mind description, I refer to its energy as deriving from two

generators, brain and soul. The brain accounts for the survival instinct and the dreaded ego. Both are self centered. But to account for what would impel a person to sacrifice his life for another, as well as all researched paranormal events like out of body experiences, communication with the deceased, memories of a previous existence, the effects of mind over matter... those things cannot be explained by biological brain activity. I go with soul because so many use it for this light, this alternate energy, and because in my personal experience, everything was soul, Mind, and Source. Where brain is self-serving, soul seems to possess an innate understanding that each and every soul derived from the source, so soul is social, generous to others, sympathetic, empathetic.

The poster referred to sociopaths and their varying degrees. I refer to Mind having varying degrees of soul energy influence. Since soul prompts us to care for societal welfare, minimal soul energy affecting the brain is displayed as antisocial, sociopathic behavior.

So, the same laws do apply here and now and hereafter!!!

[H2O Man]

43. Thanks!

If you get me talking about the teachings of Chief Waterman and Rubin Carter in those areas, there would be fewer readers and much less interest! But I fit a bit in every now and then!

[Wild blueberry]

22. Excellent

Thank you.

[H2O Man]

45. Thank you!

[dlk]

23. Too many people are like sheep

They want someone to tell them what to do and are perfect targets for those with no conscience.

[H2O Man]

46. Right.

Exactly right.

[dlk]

56. Thank you for your post

It was informative and timely.

[H2O Man]

58. Thanks. I thought it was important.

[LoisB]

25. Excellent!

[H2O Man]

47. Thanks!

[FakeNoose]

27. Thanks for this thoughtful post, and I see a lot that I agree with here

We among the educated and self-aware Americans have no problem recognizing the fascist tendencies that the Republican Party has fallen into. However they don't think of themselves as fascists, and they resent it when we call them that.

I believe it's part of their brainwashing. But in fact, how can anyone who has learned anything about history, social history and economics NOT see this? The ChumpHumpers have voluntarily blinded themselves and disconnected their brains in order to follow Chump.

It really isn't nationalism in the classic sense. A nationalist is a person who believes "My country right or wrong." However the ChumpHumpers refuse to accept anything about this country or this government, if it hasn't been ordained by Chump. That includes hating certain members of the Republican Party. They'd rather overthrow the government if Chump isn't at the head of it. That's purely a cult of the leader, but I wouldn't exactly call it nationalism.

Thank you H2O Man for sharing your thoughts.

[H2O Man]

48. Thank you!

They are brainwashed! Rubin used to say that they are hypnotized, and brainwashed into believing that they are conscious.

When Trump said he could shoot someone on a city street and not lose any supporters, he came closer to telling the truth than at any other time in his life.

[Caliman73]

31. Accurate assessment.

I particularly agree with the following comment.

Trump is really not much different that the fellows and one female sociopath I worked with. He might dress differently -- for now -- but the only real difference is that the social station he was born into allowed him to buy access. That included access to high society and to the media. Without the money, Trump is at best an inmate in the county jail. This, despite his uncle being a professor.

I have been saying this for some time here that Trump, having not been born into wealth but to similar family environment, would likely be in prison or dead. He is nothing special intellectually or otherwise. He had the luck of being born into wealth and hasn't really produced anything other than a cult of popularity.

His niece Mary said as much indicating that out of his brothers and sister, he was the least talented, but the most interested in his father's shady business dealings and likely the one least concerned about unethical and criminal behavior.

[H2O Man]

49. Mary is a wonderful lady.

I have a very high opinion of her. The exact opposite with Donald. The only thing he mastered in life was lying.

[Caliman73]

53. Unfortunately lying can be a powerful tool in the hands of someone with very little morality.

the funny thing is that the incentive structure for powerful positions in society actually attracts and at least in the short term, rewards people who are skilled at manipulation, lack ethical values, and are ruthlessly in search of power. I do not remember off the top of my head, but there was some kind of study that showed a higher than typical level of psychopathy related characteristics among CEOs of top earning companies.

Trump is obviously different as he lacks the emotional regulation to actually be successful in a sustaining way. Again, his salvation has been his family's money and ability to sucker people into his sphere of influence to take the fall for him.

[H2O Man]

62. Exactly!

Thank you for this!

I remember when some people were surprised that Nixon proved to be such a liar. I wasn't, and I doubt many of my generation were .....for we had witnessed LBJ, who lied a rather lot. Looking back, I think the two lied for different reasons, and I think that but for Vietnam -- a huge "but" -- LBJ would have been a great president. But the man lied a lot. Nixon might have been outstanding on foreign policy if not for Vietnam, but not as good as Johnson. Just my opinion.

Neither of them ranked with Trump, who lied about things he didn't need to. I think that stands out. He lied because he loved fooling and manipulating people, including his supporters. Yet I know a couple idiots who have challenged me to name a single lie Trump ever told.

[AmBlue]

69. Speaking of lies...

An aspect of all the bold-faced lying that I find particularly shocking and incomprehensible about this cycle we are living through is TFG's unprecedented and constant doubling down not only on his lies, but also on horrific, un-American, and even unlawful policies, events and behaviors. Separating families, kids in cages, unleashing the US military on BLM protesters, coddling dictators, condoning what happened in Charlottesville, The Big Lie, January 6th-- and so much more-- are ALL reasons for bragging in TFG's world! Even worse, his compulsive narcissism and lying laid bare for all to see has shockingly NOT been slapped down by the GOP, but rather has been lapped up by so many of the party faithful that absolutely know better. It has also frighteningly spawned so many more wannabes, such as the Texas and Florida governors who seem to be in a battle of outrageousness one-upsmanship with TFG.

I used to have faith that our system of government, and Congress specifically, would eject this kind of nefarious and disgusting behavior before it could ever get to the point in history we are at, as it did with Nixon. Now, seeing the GOP nearly entirely held hostage to all the lies, I am losing that faith and do not understand why they have let it go this far.

Why do you think the doubling down has ended up being an effective modus operandi for them?

P.S. Fantastic discussion!! More of this please! =)

[bluboid]

33. OMG, H20 Man... thank you!!!!!!

excellent post & important information. the Russian angle must be addressed ASAP!

[H2O Man]

50. Thanks!

I'm hoping to learn more about the Russian connection in the next few days. I'm waiting for someone who is much smarter than me, and who knows about this, to provide me more details. But without question, there was a lot more to J6 than the public is aware of.

[malaise]

38. Thanks for a great response bro

I understand much more now

[H2O Man]

51. Thank you!

I suspect this OP indicates how much I think about the things that you say here!

[Just_Vote_Dem]

55. Thank you

You are a compelling writer!

[H2O Man]

59. Well thank you!

I appreciate that!

A friend who lurks on DU said that she was impressed by the OP and the responses. I told her that I had hesitated to write it, and questioned if it was worth posting here. Sometimes what makes perfect sense to me, I told her, appears to be nonsense to others. So I'm glad I did post it.

[Saoirse9]

60. Well said as usual

Last weekend I attended a family gathering at my cousin's house. I love my cousins half to death. But it was clear that their only sources of news are Fox, OAN or Newsmax. They hate Biden. They miss trump. They still talk about Russia Hoax.

I am usually adept at changing the subject when in their company but they just wouldn't let me so I just countered with "I really like Biden" and "he's so much better than trump." I was tempted to help them by informing them they have fallen for Russian disinformation campaigns over and over and over. But I held my tongue.

We did talk about other stuff but it was hard and I don't expect to go back there. At least not until and unless trump is in jail and they all just shut the hell up about him. I am deeply disappointed and sad.

Makes me sick all this.

I do have a question. If putin dies does that mean all the bullshit coming out of Russia stops? Or will another just take his place and do the same?

[H2O Man]

64. Interesting.

It can be very difficult to communicate with people who are invested in a delusional group-think. I'm fortunate that the two relatives I have that belong to the cult -- both female cousins -- live in different states. One still loves me and we can still talk about any other issue, the other considers me "dangerous." Ha!

Regarding Russia: I really don't know enough to do more than speculate .... but that won't stop me! As a system, my impression is that it rejects and rids itself of honest, decent leadership. I'm basing that largely on two things. One, I respected Gorbachev. I thought he was more talented and a better human being than Reagan. He wanted to make the world a safer, better place. Reagan wanted to widen the economic gap in the US, and damaged the middle- and lower economic classes, which he didn't give a shit about. He was worse than Nixon.

The powers-that-be got rid of Gorbachev ..... much like the systems model I frequently use, of a mobile hanging over an infant's crib. He sought to change the balance, and they cut him off. On a more recent note, those who seek to speak out and improve life in Russia tend to be poisoned when in foreign lands like England, and incarcerated or killed in Russia. So that involves Putin, but is not limited to him. It is an entrenched system, that does not have the things we have to get rid of a would-be tyrant.

[Martin Eden]

61. Whether an atom or a solar system, there are for too many ...

... criminals, potential criminals, and clusters of shit-dust entities threatening the survival of our democracy.

We are in an existential fight against homegrown fascism.

All hands are needed on deck!

[H2O Man]

65. Absolutely right!

There isn't one hero that will save us. It requires all of us to put forth our best efforts.

[Faux pas]

70. Kickin'

again now that I finished the OP. Thank you!