The moment we should have realized it was a much deeper conspiracy than anyone imagined?

[kentuck]

It was after the mob had ransacked the Capitol and had taken it over. After they had threatened the lives of elected Congressmen and Senators. After they had threatened to hang the then-Vice President, Mike Pence. It was an orchestrated attack by a violent mob.

After all that had happened, and the Congressmen and Senators had returned back to the House floor, it was very early in the morning of the next day. They had survived. Luckily, none of them had been murdered or kidnapped.

Then they took a vote to certify the electoral votes for Joe Biden from the last election. After all that had transpired, 147 Congressmen and Senators voted not to certify. Shockingly, there were 8 Senators and 139 Representatives that voted not to certify the electoral votes.

That is the moment we should have known that this was a very deep conspiracy. No sane or innocent person would have voted in such a way.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/01/07/us/elections/electoral-college-biden-objectors.html

[ananda]

1. I didn't at the time.

But it didn't take long before I did:
maybe a week.

[TheBlackAdder]

84. Like the Bin Laden attack. I saw the first plane strike in Jersey City and it reminded me of a book

.

called, The Sky is Falling, about a B-25 that hit the Empire State Building.

Then, when the second plane hit, I knew it was not an accident.








We just have different terrorists and terrorist enablers and backers.

.

[TreasonousBastard]

2. That's how I saw it. Still do.

[Tetrachloride]

3. Agree. went beyond my imagination

[IthinkThereforeIAM]

20. Agreed...

... eom.

[ZonkerHarris]

73. Same. Their votes showed their guilt

[Baitball Blogger]

4. Those 147 are now part of the suspect list.

Really enjoy your posts, kentuck! Good and relevant.

[kentuck]

6. Thanks BB!

[Emile]

77. It could very well include a member of the Supreme Court too.

Unbelievable how far they went.

[Bluethroughu]

5. Every single one that voted Not to certify should be thrown out of any office holding ever, in the U

They are Seditious Conspiritors, because everyone was advised trump did NOT win, but they pushed a false narrative to try and STEAL an election from the people.

[CrackityJones75]

11. Maybe.

They get to cast their vote. That’s their right (I think?) but they should be removed from office by the voters. Sadly they likely won’t. This country does not understand how a democracy works. They do not understand nor respect a democratic voting system. If it goes their way great! If not the enemy is cheating. That is the way these people think these days.

[Bluethroughu]

17. The problem is they didn't just cast a vote, they conspired to formulate a lie

And incite the American people to come and attack the capital where Congress was in the middle of transfering power from a Loser to the winner because the majority by far had voted for Biden.

The Republicans in Congress aiding this lie by repeating it, although Everyone knew a couple weeks after the election that trump lost, is not just an inconvenience but is reckless behavior my elected officals inciting a disruption of the transfer of power, the cornerstone of a functioning Democracy.

Criminal accountability is needed against ANY person in Congress that was taking part in the seditious Conspiracy to distrupt the transfer of power.

[kentuck]

19. Yes, they wanted to take the votes away from 81 million Americans...

in other words, the majority.

If the majority no longer counts, we are no longer in a democracy.

[Bluethroughu]

25. We are definitely on a slippery slope, riding on a banana peel.

BUT, we are the majority and we will overcome together, history says so.

[Mr.Bill]

57. Thanks to the Electoral College,

The majority already doesn't matter sometimes.

[calimary]

21. Yep.

[Historic NY]

32. Exactly.

they should face the hardest sanction the constitution has to offer, under the 14th Amendment Sec #3. If their voters want them back then they can reelect them.

[xxqqqzme]

38. Agree. The electeds

are supposedly mature adults and have taken an path of office. They should have more than a passing glance of the contents of the Constitution. If they have no intention of honoring their oath, they are not qualified to hold office.

[Freddie]

7. This

If they didn’t know it was going to happen they would have been shocked, horrified and scared. Instead it was business as usual for the R’s. THEY ALL KNEW. And were just disappointed that it didn’t succeed.

[3auld6phart]

8. Definitely

a dangerous situation. Is their a list of the dissidents or
was this a secret vote ?

[intheflow]

33. Certification of the election is not a secret vote.

Here's a list of the traitors, from the NYT (not paywalled):

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/07/us/politics/republicans-against-certification.html

[33taw]

71. This is paywalled

[intheflow]

78. Here's a link to an archived copy

even though it’s not paywalled for me on either my laptop or phone.

https://web.archive.org/web/20220211141627/https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/07/us/politics/republicans-against-certification.html

[Tumbulu]

9. As I was watching them vote

that is what I concluded.

But what has taken so long?

This was and is extremely obvious.

[Javaman]

10. any thinking person with even the least amount of decerning ability realized that

at that moment.

I remember the vote clearly, I turned to my wife and said, "they were a part of it"

until that moment, I have written on here and on other sites that the corruption and insanity within the right wing is systemic. not a few outliers as they would like us to think.

that entire thing had a pattern and if you were watching closely, you saw it.

I wrote this back on Dec 16th 2020

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100214723226


I'm firmly convinced that the orange asshole is a psychopath

And as such, he’s at his end game. He has nothing left to try and “overturn” the election.

He is now at his most dangerous.

Let that sink in

In other words, we ain’t seen nothin yet

I said 3 years ago it would take a swat team to get him to leave. We may need more than that now: the fire Dept.

Well now we have him saying he won’t leave the WH.

Having read extensively over the years about psychopaths and anti-social behavior, I’m going to go on record that he will attempt to do something truly extreme to prevent himself from leaving the WH.

And what that is exactly is: he will attempt to burn down the WH or something along those lines.

He’s mentally painted into corner and feels he has no other alternative than to quite literally burn it all down.

Just remember this: you can not rationalize with a psychopath. They aren’t capable of thinking like normal people. Their one and only mission in life is to protect themselves at all costs and that even means burning everything down and then dying in the flames. Because they will have convinced themselves, at that point, that they “won” because they weren’t caught.

We are entering the final stretch before he gets kicked out of the WH and it’s going to get really fucking weird

[kentuck]

12. I agree.

And this is a dangerous time for the country.

He will begin to use his "rallies" for his final strategy. He will incite one more action before he is through.

He never gives up because he can never accept that he lost.

He is not a stable person. He was not a stable person when he was running for the White House. It was obvious to many back then, long before the insurrection happened.

What next?

[Javaman]

15. I think TFG's power will erode for sure.

there's only so much, even the nuts can take, of the same retreaded bullshit.

I do believe that the right wing militia' are getting more organized for sure.

I have also written on here that I believe that, while we are in a civil war at the moment (still in the beginning stages), any large scale violence with be like the sectarian violence we see in the middle east. never will we see the north south large set piece battles. too costly for the nuts. I have also written that the recent spat of mass shooting are more that just nuts going off but have more than a tinge of attacks against society as a whole.

there are so many factors at play for this: climate change, the pandemic, inflation, the great job migration, low pay and, most of all, the concept that future opportunities for people in this nation appear to be on the wane. (that is of course due to much of the repukes blocking Biden's agenda)

but the disenfranchisement of the younger generation for lack of hope, I believe, fuels much of the the violence of late. And I think that lack of hope is more of a subconscious thing that and obvious thing at the moment. It might take a larger platform down the road.

but also a recent study shows a direct relationship with as climate change getting worse so does violence.

it's been no mystery that more acts of violence happen during the summer months. but with climate change now running the show, things are are getting worse and will continue as such.

all that said, all I can say is this; this summer I think we will probably see something truly horrible from the right wing surrogates and their armed militia. the lead up to the mid terms will be one of the history books.

vague enough? LOL

cheers

[kentuck]

18. The militias are growing stronger.

The 31 "patriots" that were arrested in Idaho the other day was a sample of things to come, in my opinion.

They seemed to be younger guys, in general. Perhaps many of them had recently served in the military? What was their goal?

They will become much better organized in the future, I would predict.

The FBI and the DOJ should have a task force ready to deal with these people right now, in my opinion.. They should not wait until there is a huge battle beyond their control.

There are storm clouds on the horizon.

[Joinfortmill]

24. Yup. I suspect they're on it. Joe got what was going on,which is why her ran... Remember

he ran 'for the soul of America'. He wasn't kidding about that.

[Javaman]

27. there was a recent interview with a former FBI profiler on, I believe, MSNBC

regarding the recent mass shootings. she stated that there now appears to be a new profile that has been added to the data base. Young, white, early 20's to early 30's, holding right wing beliefs.

these are certainly incel right wing nuts with marginal thinking skills.

but...

they are now a concern given the rise of the right wing rhetoric and violence at various rallies and events.

[KS Toronado]

13. There should be repercussions for the 8 Senators and 139 Reps

Co-conspirators maybe? Something to toss them out of office for good.

[FailureToCommunicate]

14. ANY sentient being should have! Even our CAT walked out when the vote tally appeared on

the TV!

[madaboutharry]

16. The saddest part: 40% of Americans think that's great.

Last edited Thu Jun 16, 2022, 12:21 PM - Edit history (1)

We can’t trust that our own countrymen and countrywomen believe in democracy.

We need to use the right words to describe them. They are fascists.

[Cosmocat]

43. CORRECT

NM

[Joinfortmill]

22. Yup, and I expect the Jan 6 Committee and DOJ will get them all

[867-5309.]

82. All 147?

The crazy runs deep. But I suspect most of them aren't in scope for the committee.

[SLClarke]

23. American style coup d'etat

Talking with a patient of mine, the day after, I asserted it was an attempt at a coup d'etat. It failed, fortunately, because of the over-weening arrogance of the insurgents.
My patient disagreed, saying it was just a mob, a group of people rioting - in other words, no big deal (such innocence, ignorance!).
However, for me, it was truly disturbing and appalling, that this kind of action, could take place in this country.
Plus, the ineptitude, the chaotic formlessness of the crowd, morphing into mob madness, was unsettling and worrying. Seeing a group of people, violent people, attempt to reenact Crystal Nacht was not a good experience.
This was a very different approach from the "classic" takeover, where it is usually the military, and which is performed with precision and tight organization so we all only find out about it after the fact, when a new government is in place.
Yes, this was an American style coup d'etat.

[erronis]

49. Another example is when the "brooks brothers" rioted during the Florida Bush-Gore count

It wasn't just a mob, just rioting. It was also a well-staged and conspired event that actually changed our government, giving us Cheney/W's GWOT, etc.

[Solomon]

62. Kavanaugh was one of the assholes.

[Lasher]

67. The Brooks Brothers astroturf riot

[Alpeduez21]

26. Had inclinations when the lazy lying steaming pile Hump

Kept insisting that the election was rigged and not one fucking repuke disputed that with the vehemence necessary. Knew for a fact when there was minimal security at the capital.

[fightforfreedom]

28. Good post, you think they would have tried to cover the fact they are traitors and cowards.

It was like they were thanking people for trying to over throw the government.

[kentuck]

30. There is a lot we have learned since that time...

The tours, the emails, the alternate electors, congressional complicity with the Proud Boys, etc.

And there is still much to learn as the Committee digs deeper and deeper.

[BumRushDaShow]

39. "There is a lot we have learned since that time..."

But before that, people living here in PA remember this super-spreader event 3 weeks after the election on November 25, where that was one of the "planning" meetings, and the same day some of the attendees traveled down to D.C. to a WH meeting, where one (Mastriano) was told that he tested positive -

[NoMoreRepugs]

29. Other than Cheney and Kinzinger is there a Republican who is not an Insurrectionist?

[NewHendoLib]

31. I strongly suspected since election night.

Actually, since election night 2015.

[subterranean]

34. Thank goodness we had a Democratic Congress then.

If the Republicans had still controlled Congress in 2020, the plot might very well have succeeded.

[erronis]

50. And we probably wouldn't be able to have this conversation.

At least openly and safely.

[BumRushDaShow]

35. "The moment we should have realized it was a much deeper conspiracy than anyone imagined?"

Anyone on DU who lives in any of the 6 states targeted by these insurrectionists saw their elected loons (both state and federal) in action, and KNEW it had gone too far because they were all uncannily lockstep in coordination, and method for what they were doing to disrupt the process.

Having relied on ALEC for decades of grooming the GOP to act in unison with their development of RW agenda legislation, where they would all use the same "template" in their states, such conditioning had been the first step for prompting them to "sign on to" assisting in this coup attempt. Anyone "bucking" this would not only get the "primarying threat", but they and their families would be doxxed and get the death threats.

Starting from the day after the election, they proceeded to implement their plans.

"Phase 1" - targeted a specific set of states for a purported "legal" overturning of the election by challenging the voting process and aiming to disrupt the activities specified for two important dates - December 8 ( "Safe Harbor" deadline for states to certify the votes for their elections) and December 14 (state Electors meet as the "Electoral College" at their state capitals to vote for President and Vice President based on the popular vote tallies certified the week prior). This disruption spawned the filing of over 60 lawsuits at both the state and federal levels to thwart these important procedures in order to have officials miss the deadlines and trigger a Constitutional crisis. It also involved the creation of "fake Electors" that would be submitted "in lieu of" the actual valid Electors AND they didn't just draft them, but signed them, AND actually sent them to Congress and the National Archives.

"Phase 2" - If upon failing the above, disrupt the actual ceremonial Congressional reading, acceptance, and tally of the Electoral College Certificates of Ascertainment on January 6, and this phase apparently had a "Plan A", "Plan B", and "Plan C" where -

"Plan A"

- was to formally "object" to enough states to (unilaterally) declare the election was "unresolved" or "in dispute" and "send it back to the state legislatures to decide" - but again, really only targeting those states with GOP majorities and a Democratic governor, where the Electoral vote flipped from 2016... and if that failed -

"Plan B"

- have the VP refuse to accept the Certificates of Ascertainment and implement "Plan A" on that basis ( "sending the decision back to the states to resolve in their GOP legislatures" ), but if even that failed -

"Plan C"

- "unleash the dogs of war" to "enforce" the overthrow by actually attempting to remove the leadership structure, then declare martial law, the end (because that would never be rescinded at that point)

So this stuff was going on BEFORE January 6th actually happened.

And yes I watched the entire thing, gavel to gavel through to almost 4:30 am ET January 7, and that meant actually watching BOTH chambers (on TV for one and streaming the other) because there were periods when they broke into their separate sessions to debate the objections and those sessions were happening concurrently. I was literally operating on vapors by then.

[crickets]

45. Well said.

Thank you for such a detailed summary of the situation on the day and leading up to it.

I was up all night as well to follow the entire proceedings. Even at that late moment, after all everyone had been through that day, I did not trust the Republicans to behave. The late hour and the stress wrecked my sleep patterns for weeks, but I just could not take the chance of going to bed thinking everything was settled only to wake finding a world upside down. Not after such a wildly upsetting day, and not after what happened in 2000.

I hear you about operating on vapors. I felt sorry for some of Congress, too. The crash after the day's fight or flight adrenaline rush must have been brutal.

[BumRushDaShow]

48. I hear ya about not missing anything

the gut-wrenching feeling that election night of 2016, coupled with DU having been hacked (I was online here when it happened and saw that damn hack video), was my biggest impetus to see the 2020 election certification through to the very end (and I was posting here during those obscene hours of the night and early morning too).

And since you mention 2000, I think I still have the audio recording (done on a VCR tape) of the SCOTUS arguments of Bush v Gore that CSPAN had a rare airing of back then. Of course it's online nowadays at their amazing video library.

https://www.c-span.org/video/?161185-1/bush-v-gore-oral-arguments

[relayerbob]

36. Mid-summer 2015

But who wanted to listen? None of this, from day 1, could have been done alone, and without direct knowledge of, and others from Trump/Putin.

As soon as I saw the events on 1/6, I posted “terrorists attack Congress, trump needs to be arrested now” on FB.

[Initech]

37. I think we're going to find out that all levels of government were involved.

The MAGA virus that has spread through the GOP is deep and I don't think there's a single level of government that hasn't been compromised by these dolts. We're eventually going to find out that some really high level people were involved. And that won't be pretty.

[sybylla]

40. I expected this from the Russia Caucus.

Absolutely zero of this surprised me and I knew is was a huge conspiracy before Jan 6 arrived. That it involved so many outside of the Russia Caucus was what surprised me. If the media hadn't been having a bit of a freakout by the "insurrection," I think there would have been fewer Russia Caucus defectors in that late-night vote.

But Ron Johnson is my Senator* so .

[LymphocyteLover]

41. It's always been disturbing as fuck but so was the entire Trump presidency and it's always been

mind boggling how people would support his criminality and treason and even fight for him. Crazy!!!!

[MiHale]

42. I believed it then and have my beliefs strengthened...

by the presentation the J6 is giving. Said it then that citizens will be shocked to their core when the truth came out.
Today’s hearing could be one of the best.

[H2O Man]

44. Recommended.

Great OP/thread!

[wendyb-NC]

46. I knew it had to be an inside job

Too many things that were new phenomena, just happened to happen. The fact that this barrage of storming Maga's, broke into the building. Capital Police seemed unprepared for the onslaught of people. Law enforcement wasn't prepared for a violent riot. The Governors of Maryland and Virginia, wanted to send their National Guard, and were trying to reach a person in charge. That's not to mention the looser promoting the big lie. Trump was nowhere to be found.

[FakeNoose]

47. I realized it when I saw that the National Guard hadn't been called

We were watching the insanity at the Capitol on national news, and there were no SWAT/riot police from Washington DC and no National Guard to maintain the peace!

The poor understaffed Capitol police were completely overwhelmed and being attacked. Gov. Larry Hogan wanted to call in the National Guard but he was told he couldn't (because of the memo that had gone out 2 days before.) That's when I knew this was a planned and coordinated effort.

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

69. Also, rather than securing the Capitol and arresting every single MAGAt in there, they allowed

them all to saunter out & back home or to their hotel rooms. If those were Dems storming the seat of our democracy, there's a good chance they would have been held off with bullets.

[Renaissance Man]

51. Panic Buttons Disabled

When reports were released showing that panic buttons were disabled for certain Congressmen, we should have realized it was a much deeper conspiracy.

[krispos42]

52. When there were no reinforcements, IMO

No DC National Guard. No Maryland National Guard. No Virginia National Guard. No Virginia state troopers. No Maryland state troopers. No U.S. Marshals. No FBI agents. No DEA agents. No Coast Guardsmen. No Park Rangers. No Secret Service agents. No Bureau of Prisons officers.

I don't know if the Metropolitan Police tried to assist the Capitol Police.


If this was a movie, some rogue captain with the US Postal Service's armed enforcement division would have gathered his agents and mounted a relief operation, simply because it didn't occur to Trump or his minions to tell the Post Office to stand down.

[maxsolomon]

53. They'd openly announced they would pursue that strategy.

which is, unfortunately, in our dumb Constitution.

the ethical corruption of those actions was deflected by pointing out that Dems did the same thing in 2017, and they did. objected to 10 state's electors. my rep, Pramila Jayapal did it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_United_States_Electoral_College_vote_count#:~:text=and%20House%20journals.-,Joint%20Session%20of%20Congress,a%20member%20of%20the%20Senate.

[czarjak]

54. Russia!

[uponit7771]

55. K&R, ... and it looks like the fake TFG elector documents are the lynch pen in the whole plan !!

[Martin68]

56. Good point. Every single one of those Republicans voted for the insurrection and attempted coup.

[llmart]

58. K&R a thousand times!

My rep was a newly elected representative who had zero experience in anything remotely related to governance or anything else for that matter. Her very first act in Congress was to vote NOT to certify the election results. I sent her an email calling her a traitor to the country and several other things that weren't complimentary. Tell me how she had any idea that she could even do such a thing since she had zero knowledge of how government works. No, she was placed in office in a heavily gerrymandered district by the GOP operatives in our areas who knew they could manipulate her to vote the way they wanted her to vote.

I want her gone. I doubt if my area would now get rid of her (lot of rural/uneducated people in the northern parts of the district), but I'm hoping Congress takes whatever action they can to reprimand those who would not certify the election.

[empedocles]

59. Should have seen it when traitortrump still appeared in 2020 - as 'solvent'

[ymetca]

60. Sadly

my Senator was one of them, and will easily be reelected. He thumps his Bible and toes the party line, even as it inexorably leads to the mass slaughter of the innocents.

The white evangelical crowd has lost its collective mind. They are a clear and present danger to all that is civil, and all that is decent. Hate dressed up as piety. Religiosity drunk with too much power. The few reasonable ones left are fully marginalized now. It is quite alarming.

No, this ain't over. Not by a long shot.

[Samrob]

61. Every one of them should be brought before the Committee to explain their vote. nt

[BadgerKid]

63. There are nationalism ads now...

these people aren't going away at all.

[diane in sf]

64. In 2000 when 5 crooked Supreme Court judges appointed bush president. That was a real

attention getting banana republic move. Or maybe when Reagan broke the sir traffic controllers strike.

[Generic Brad]

65. We didn't know but we felt it in our guts

Nothing stated to the Committee has surprised me. Nothing. Many of us recognized exactly what we were dealing with and there was not a damned thing we could do.

[LiberalFighter]

66. Including Gregg Pence brother of Mike

[Jarqui]

68. I emphatically told my siblings Jan 6th was going to happen on Jan 6th days before Jan 6th.

Bill Maher maintained all along Trump wouldn't leave quietly.

[Lasher]

70. Democrats want to be fair;

Republicans want to win. This is the most distinct difference between us and them.

[soldierant]

72. Some of us, I think, did,

even though we may not quite have articulted it that way. This is why I'm not surprised by anything in the hearings*, even when it's new information, because it all fits

*One thing did surprise me today, but it wasn't evidence. It was that I realized how someone who was not totally put off by his politics and some of his weird beliefs and mannerisms could actually quite like Mike Pence. I can't like him, but now I can see it - why some do.

[luvallpeeps]

74. This right here piqued my fear and curiosity.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/11/24/kash-patel-pentagon-transition-440293
It was the fast moves he made prior. I knew he was gonna pull a stunt.

[Emile]

75. K&R

[Dorian Gray]

76. Agree

though I think I knew it was a conspiracy when Trump said "Lets all march to the capitol" then went back to the white house to eat ice cream and watch it all roll out on TV.

[malaise]

79. I knew it was a coup on Jan 6

Then I knew it had failed
Great thread.

[mrsadm]

80. I'm glad the NYT published this right after the third Ja. 6 hearing,

So we know who all the conspirators are, who want to overthrow democracy and our government.

[AngryOldDem]

81. That went beyond stubbornness and party loyalty.

Who could survive that and not come away with a deeper committment to the rule of law and the democratic process?

Those who were involved in the plot, that’s who.

The video of Loudermilk giving “tours” to his “constituents” when the Capitol was CLOSED to the public? He could have been an accessory to murder if his “constituents” had had their way. These congresspeople are just as complicit as anyone in Trump’s inner circle. Go after them hammer and tongs, too.

Straight-up sedition.

[DownriverDem]

83. Oh I knew

but now that the truth is coming out why are the polls showing trump beating Biden in 2024 & the MAGA repubs winning big in November? I have to believe the polls, because they have been more right than not in the past. This truly makes me sick.