****1/6 Committee Hearings Day 3, thread ONE****

[Scrivener7]

Welcome back! So glad we can watch this together!


I am SO excited for this!

[bluecollar2]

1. Is it delayed?

I tuned in over an hour ago. I thought it was supposed to start at noon EST?

[Scrivener7]

7. The schedule I saw this morning said 1. (I tuned in this morning

thinking it was going to be at 10. Not sure if the 1 o'clock is a delay.)

[Marthe48]

8. 1 PM today

from what I saw

[MLAA]

25. It was always scheduled for 1pm ET as far as I know.

[livetohike]

2. Should be some fireworks. Glad to share this experience

with all.

[Emile]

3. Ready, someone please pop the popcorn!

[Ohio Joe]

4. I'm here

[FarPoint]

5. I am glad we have a Thread ..

I can't watch at the moment as I am working ...I do have things on record at home..

[BumRushDaShow]

6. I'm here

Actually had my popcorn earlier this morning thinking this was was gonna be at 10 am because fool me forgot to double check the schedule!

[Scrivener7]

9. I did the same.

[Marthe48]

10. I think the org schedule was more of a guideline

It'll be tough to watch whatever time it is

[BumRushDaShow]

39. I always check on the CSPAN website since they are controlling the cameras

so they sortof know "in advance" of about when the hearings are scheduled (and the start times).

But agree that this is just heart-breaking.

[Marthe48]

86. one of my friends posted the org sched

I saved it on my desk top. They haven't followed it very well, and I'm glad there are updates to check!

[Ohio Joe]

11. I'm watching on youtube, Washington Post - 53k watching right now

Edit - 62k now

[Scrivener7]

16. Thanks for the link! Watching on CNN on my Roku, but they usually only

let me watch for 10 minutes bc I don't have cable.

[cilla4progress]

12. Andrea Mitchell

is unwatchable.

Mangling everyone's names.

Switched to CNN.

Looking forward to Rachel Maddow panel on MSNBC tonight.

[JohnSJ]

19. I disagree. There are enough other people there who make up for whatever deficiencies

Mitchell has.

For me I cannot stand Jake Tapper on CNN

[txwhitedove]

35. Correct, plus just maybe she's a Repub draw for those viewers who need to watch.

[crickets]

44. Good point.

No one else wants to watch her.

[Scrivener7]

13. Here they come!

Does anyone else just find Benny Thompson's presence and persona very comforting?

[crickets]

17. Yes. He's calm and steady, and I appreciate that about him. nt

[MLAA]

41. I was thinking the very same thing.

[nolabear]

14. And the gavel:

[livetohike]

18. Thompson" We are fortunate for Pence's courage on January 6

“Today we’ll lay out the facts”

[JohnSJ]

22. A good move in my view. I don't think it will happen, but it might motivate Pence to testify.

[Scrivener7]

27. Wouldn't it be great if it motivated him to run in 24?

No one likes him.

[JohnSJ]

48. I think he will run in the Republican primaries. The only thing I don't want is to see DeSantis

or a trump candidate winning the republican primary. I want to see anything supporting or being aligned with trump to go down in flames

[livetohike]

20. Video of Mike Pence saying he had no right to

over turn the election.

[crickets]

21. Wonkette live blog:

Get Your Blood Pumping Better Than Any Dumb Workout With House Jan. 6 Committee Hearings, Day Three!
https://www.wonkette.com/liveblog-it-s-day-3-of-the-jan-6-committee-hearings

[Scrivener7]

23. Nice!

[nolabear]

24. Thank goodness everybody hates Pence.

It’s no time for the GOP to find a hero to run.

Although I don’t think he has the heart for it.

[Funtatlaguy]

26. He has the cardinal sin in todays politics. He's BORING.

[maxsolomon]

119. He's an uptight dolt.

A SE Indiana prig.

[livetohike]

28. Cheney "VP Pence did his duty on Jan 6. Pres. Trump

did not.

[ancianita]

29. Thank you, Sriv! Live video, if people here want to toggle back and forth.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1017743223

[Scrivener7]

30. .

[Mersky]

31. Marc Short video testimony: Eastman knew on Jan. 4 refusing to count electoral votes was illegal

Yeah, he knew what he was cooking.

[Scrivener7]

32. Showing video of gallows and crowd yelling, "Hang Mike Pence."

[livetohike]

33. Showed video of insurrectionists shouting "Hang Mike

Pence”.

[nolabear]

34. Boy that shot of the dome and the noise is chilling.

[livetohike]

36. Do we know whether the Congress and Pence could

hear them?

[nolabear]

45. I meant noose but that's a good question. I don't know.

They may have gotten reports from security or had a tv on once they got out of chambers.

[livetohike]

58. Thanks! n/t

[Scrivener7]

37. Swearing in witnesses Luttig and Greg Jacobs

[livetohike]

38. Thompson reviewing everything Trump tried to do to

stop the outcome of the election.

[nolabear]

40. Anyone scanning that code on MSNBC?

I don’t have the bandwidth to watch, monitor a live blog and chat here, but I’m curious.

[crickets]

42. Again, the witnesses are going to be Republicans, conservative Republicans no less.

Tidbit that might have flown by: Eastman clerked for Judge Luttig.

[Lars39]

43. Pence's guy Jacob is testifying now

[Mersky]

46. Greg Jacob testifying in person now

Who is Greg Jacob, Pence’s lawyer who testifies Thursday before Jan. 6 panel
BY ZACH SCHONFELD - 06/15/22 5:21 PM ET

-snip-

Jacob, Pence’s chief legal counsel, has become a central figure in that pressure campaign.

He was with Pence on Jan. 6 and participated in White House meetings about the former vice president’s role as Congress counted the Electoral College votes.

Jacob previously testified to the committee that Trump campaign attorney John Eastman outlined a number of scenarios to him and Pence during meetings on Jan. 4 and Jan. 5 regarding Pence’s participation in the joint session of Congress.

-snip-

https://thehill.com/policy/national-security/3525186-who-is-greg-jacob-pences-lawyer-who-testifies-thursday-before-jan-6-panel/

[BumRushDaShow]

47. Jacob: "December 7th" first hearing about this looney 12 Amendment theory

and note that "December 7th" (aside from Pearl Harbor Day) was the day BEFORE the so-called "Safe Harbor Day" for states to certify their elections ahead of the formal meeting of the Electoral College around a week later.

[nolabear]

49. Jacob makes sense but I don't trust him.

Covering Pence’s ass.

[Scrivener7]

50. Not sure I love them putting it into the record that the Constitutional

position on the theory is not definite.

[Lars39]

51. Judge Luttig testifying now

[nolabear]

52. Luttig looks like he's about to keel over.

[Funtatlaguy]

53. Has he been sedated? Geez.

[nolabear]

69. Many are observing the same. Liz says "solemn attention."

Looks like extreeeeeeeeeme discomfort to me.

[livetohike]

54. Judge Luttig "The foundational truth is the Rule of Law". It is

not only the profound truth of the US it is also the truth of the American public.

[JohnSJ]

55. I think Judge Luttig has a resemblance to William Shatner

[Lars39]

57. Spacing out, killing time

[spinbaby]

63. It's killing me listening to him

He has to contemplate every word before he utters it.

[Lars39]

67. He eventually got there!

[JohnSJ]

111. Exactly, he is being very careful with his chosen words, because this is a very significant

[livetohike]

60. He does! n/t

[crickets]

65. He does seem to be doing a lot of thinking about his words before saying them.

It's not clear that it's a stylistic choice. Perhaps he may have a health issue or problems with stammering?

[crickets]

56. Jacob makes strong point that the framers of the Constitution would never

have put the power to decide an election in to the hands of one person, especially a VP who might be on the ticket. No one person has the power to decide the outcome of the election.

[Scrivener7]

59. I guess.............. it's good ...................... to be.............................

deliberate.

[Ohio Joe]

68. He is William Shatner's long lost brother

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100216808075

[txwhitedove]

70. Federal Judge Luttig ... makes... you... listen. Profound indeed.

[ancianita]

72. "The first constitutional crisis since the beginning of the Republic" ONLY thing he didn't repeat.

Weak. He offered nothing new.

But at least a Republican former judge said it.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

61. TFG is going to lose it

I saw that TFG wants equal time

[livetohike]

66. Then he should come before the committee and defend

himself.

[Scrivener7]

75. He really hasn't a clue how government works, does he?

[ReluctanceTango]

127. By that, he means getting to speak

to the whole country across the same networks, without interruption.

Not how it works.

If he wants to be heard, he can get his fat ass to DC, appear before the J6 committee, get sworn in, and sit his ass down to answer questions. That is his only chance to get "equal time."

He can like it or piss off.

[Sympthsical]

62. I feel like one of us is stoned

Either he is or I am.

[Emile]

73. I know, he was being extra careful with his words.

[crickets]

76. I'm wondering if he has a stammer. nt

[Mersky]

95. He's nervous

And looping a bit. Took him a minute to catch himself before speaking — chest heaving with deep breaths. Kinda feel for the guy. I get the sense he takes this very seriously.

[crickets]

101. +1

[Lars39]

64. Tantamount to a revolution within...

Dang

[Mersky]

80. ... a constitutional crisis

Dang is correct.

[Scrivener7]

71. Whoa! "It would have thrown the United States into what I believe

would be a revolution within a Constitutional crisis." (Paraphrase of the judge on if the plan had worked.)

He's slow, but he doesn't mince words.

[nolabear]

78. He looks like he hates saying it but has to.

I’d look under the car before I went home.

[txwhitedove]

82. J6 Committee giving master class in civics, citizenship, law, news and TRUTH.

[crickets]

87. Agreed! Luttig also submitted a written statement to the committee.

Statement of J. Michael Luttig before The United States House Select Committee on the January 6, 2021, Attack on the United States Capitol

https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/22061497/jml-final.pdf

[livetohike]

74. Cheney talking about "two groups of electors" slated

electors and fake electors.

[cilla4progress]

77. I think he spoke like that (unless he always does...)

because of the gravity and solemnity of what TFG attempted!!

Even arch-conservatives - legit ones, anyway, can be super patriots.

It makes me feel like crying, so sad...

LADY LIBERTY WAS VIOLATED!!!!!

[crickets]

92. Luttig does appear genuinely upset by what happened Jan 6

and by the attempt to introduce 'alternate' electors. He firmly rebukes Eastman's claim of historical/legal precedence.

eta from Wonkette:

1:30 Luttig frames the issue as the survival of democracy, whether the foundational rule of law

"I believe that had Vice President Pence obeyed the order from his president, during the joint session of congress on January 6 2021, and declared Donald Trump the next president of US notwithstanding that then president Trump had lost the electoral college vote as well as the popular vote in the 2020 presidential election, that declaration of Donald Trump as the next president would have plunged America into what I believe would have been tantamount to a revolution within a constitutional crisis in America. Which in my view, and I'm only one man, would have been the first constitutional crisis since the founding of the Republic."

[Bucky]

79. Can Judge Luttig please slow down? I can't keep track

He literally just repeated his written statement much much slower.

[Bucky]

85. Oh lordy, he's going in for a 2nd answer

[Ohio Joe]

81. "In other words... It was a lie"

This need repeating... Often.

[livetohike]

83. Cheney asking Judge Luttig if fake electors had any

legal authority. No support for VP to count those electors.

[livetohike]

89. Judge Luttig: No historical precedent to support the

Possibility of the VP to count “alternative slate of electors.”

[Scrivener7]

84. The whole concept of the fake electors is so dopey. These guys are

like kids making up the rules of a game as they play in the backyard.

[BumRushDaShow]

121. They were using this as their justification

12th Amendment

Amendment XII

The electors shall meet in their respective states and vote by ballot for President and Vice-President, one of whom, at least, shall not be an inhabitant of the same state with themselves; they shall name in their ballots the person voted for as President, and in distinct ballots the person voted for as Vice-President, and they shall make distinct lists of all persons voted for as President, and of all persons voted for as Vice-President, and of the number of votes for each, which lists they shall sign and certify, and transmit sealed to the seat of the government of the United States, directed to the President of the Senate;--The President of the Senate shall, in the presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the certificates and the votes shall then be counted;--the person having the greatest number of votes for President, shall be the President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of electors appointed; and if no person have such majority, then from the persons having the highest numbers not exceeding three on the list of those voted for as President, the House of Representatives shall choose immediately, by ballot, the President. But in choosing the President, the votes shall be taken by states, the representation from each state having one vote; a quorum for this purpose shall consist of a member or members from two-thirds of the states, and a majority of all the states shall be necessary to a choice. And if the House of Representatives shall not choose a President whenever the right of choice shall devolve upon them, before the fourth day of March next following, then the Vice-President shall act as President, as in the case of the death or other constitutional disability of the President. The person having the greatest number of votes as Vice-President, shall be the Vice-President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of electors appointed, and if no person have a majority, then from the two highest numbers on the list, the Senate shall choose the Vice-President; a quorum for the purpose shall consist of two-thirds of the whole number of Senators, and a majority of the whole number shall be necessary to a choice. But no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/amendmentxii

3 U.S. Code § 15 - Counting electoral votes in Congress

U.S. Code

Congress shall be in session on the sixth day of January succeeding every meeting of the electors. The Senate and House of Representatives shall meet in the Hall of the House of Representatives at the hour of 1 o’clock in the afternoon on that day, and the President of the Senate shall be their presiding officer. Two tellers shall be previously appointed on the part of the Senate and two on the part of the House of Representatives, to whom shall be handed, as they are opened by the President of the Senate, all the certificates and papers purporting to be certificates of the electoral votes, which certificates and papers shall be opened, presented, and acted upon in the alphabetical order of the States, beginning with the letter A; and said tellers, having then read the same in the presence and hearing of the two Houses, shall make a list of the votes as they shall appear from the said certificates; and the votes having been ascertained and counted according to the rules in this subchapter provided, the result of the same shall be delivered to the President of the Senate, who shall thereupon announce the state of the vote, which announcement shall be deemed a sufficient declaration of the persons, if any, elected President and Vice President of the United States, and, together with a list of the votes, be entered on the Journals of the two Houses. Upon such reading of any such certificate or paper, the President of the Senate shall call for objections, if any. Every objection shall be made in writing, and shall state clearly and concisely, and without argument, the ground thereof, and shall be signed by at least one Senator and one Member of the House of Representatives before the same shall be received. When all objections so made to any vote or paper from a State shall have been received and read, the Senate shall thereupon withdraw, and such objections shall be submitted to the Senate for its decision; and the Speaker of the House of Representatives shall, in like manner, submit such objections to the House of Representatives for its decision; and no electoral vote or votes from any State which shall have been regularly given by electors whose appointment has been lawfully certified to according to section 6 of this title from which but one return has been received shall be rejected, but the two Houses concurrently may reject the vote or votes when they agree that such vote or votes have not been so regularly given by electors whose appointment has been so certified. If more than one return or paper purporting to be a return from a State shall have been received by the President of the Senate, those votes, and those only, shall be counted which shall have been regularly given by the electors who are shown by the determination mentioned in section 5 of this title to have been appointed, if the determination in said section provided for shall have been made, or by such successors or substitutes, in case of a vacancy in the board of electors so ascertained, as have been appointed to fill such vacancy in the mode provided by the laws of the State; but in case there shall arise the question which of two or more of such State authorities determining what electors have been appointed, as mentioned in section 5 of this title, is the lawful tribunal of such State, the votes regularly given of those electors, and those only, of such State shall be counted whose title as electors the two Houses, acting separately, shall concurrently decide is supported by the decision of such State so authorized by its law; and in such case of more than one return or paper purporting to be a return from a State, if there shall have been no such determination of the question in the State aforesaid, then those votes, and those only, shall be counted which the two Houses shall concurrently decide were cast by lawful electors appointed in accordance with the laws of the State, unless the two Houses, acting separately, shall concurrently decide such votes not to be the lawful votes of the legally appointed electors of such State. But if the two Houses shall disagree in respect of the counting of such votes, then, and in that case, the votes of the electors whose appointment shall have been certified by the executive of the State, under the seal thereof, shall be counted. When the two Houses have voted, they shall immediately again meet, and the presiding officer shall then announce the decision of the questions submitted. No votes or papers from any other State shall be acted upon until the objections previously made to the votes or papers from any State shall have been finally disposed of.
(June 25, 1948, ch. 644, 62 Stat. 675.)

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/3/15

(above codified from the Electoral Count Act of 1877 here - https://govtrackus.s3.amazonaws.com/legislink/pdf/stat/24/STATUTE-24-Pg373.pdf (PDF))

[Scrivener7]

122. No. Their justification was, "We don't want to have lost." But they couldn't

admit that so they found those passages and said they were their justification

[BumRushDaShow]

124. Well that was the simplified ACTUAL intent

But you had asses like Carnival Cruz busy literally writing "John Yoo memos" to "legally" justify the bullshit that they were planning on doing.

Inside Ted Cruz’s last-ditch battle to keep Trump in power

The Texas senator’s effort alienated some allies and sparked questions about ties to John Eastman, a longtime friend and author of key legal memos in Trump’s efforts.


By Michael Kranish
March 28, 2022 at 6:00 a.m. EDT


The efforts of Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Tex.) to keep former president Donald Trump in power have cost him allies and raised questions for congressional investigators. (Jabin Botsford/The Washington Post)

Sen. Ted Cruz was dining near the Capitol on the evening of Dec. 8, 2020, when he received an urgent call from President Donald Trump. A lawsuit had just been filed at the Supreme Court designed to overturn the election Trump had lost, and the president wanted help from the Texas Republican. “Would you be willing to argue the case?” Trump asked Cruz, as the senator later recalled it. “Sure, I’d be happy to” if the court granted a hearing, Cruz said he responded.

The call was just one step in a collaboration that for two months turned the once-bitter political enemies into close allies in the effort to keep Trump in the White House based on the president’s false claims about a stolen election. By Cruz’s own account, he was “leading the charge” to prevent the certification of Joe Biden as president. An examination by The Washington Post of Cruz’s actions between Election Day and Jan. 6, 2021, shows just how deeply he was involved, working directly with Trump to concoct a plan that came closer than widely realized to keeping him in power.

As Cruz went to extraordinary lengths to court Trump’s base and lay the groundwork for his own potential 2024 presidential bid, he also alienated close allies and longtime friends who accused him of abandoning his principles. Now, Cruz’s efforts are of interest to the House committee investigating the Jan. 6 attack on the U.S. Capitol, in particular whether Cruz was in contact with Trump lawyer John Eastman, a conservative attorney who has been his friend for decades and who wrote key legal memos aimed at denying Biden’s victory.

As Eastman outlined a scenario in which Vice President Mike Pence could deny certifying Biden’s election, Cruz crafted a complementary plan in the Senate. He proposed objecting to the results in six swing states and delaying accepting the electoral college results on Jan. 6 in favor of a 10-day “audit” — thus potentially enabling GOP state legislatures to overturn the result. Ten other senators backed his proposal, which Cruz continued to advocate on the day rioters attacked the Capitol.

(snip)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/03/28/ted-cruz-john-eastman-jan6-committee/

[Scrivener7]

125. Like nasty spoiled children.

[BumRushDaShow]

126. ... and arrogant brainwashed loons.

[Lars39]

88. No historical precedent

[txwhitedove]

109. No "mere" or legal precedent. Not even a passing acquaintance with precedent.

[nolabear]

90. That......mfer...........is going.............down

[Lars39]

91. Aguilar, John Wood questioning now

[oswaldactedalone]

93. SNL

is going to have a field day with Luttig’s testimony.

[Funtatlaguy]

96. You betcha.

[maxsolomon]

123. Summer hiatus

it will be yesterday's news by the time they come back.

No doubt there will be some fresh hell to parody by then. Palin in Congress, for example.

[Sedona]

94. This guy is on FIRE!

Last edited Fri Jun 17, 2022, 10:19 AM - Edit history (1)

I feel bad now, Judge Lettig has a speech impediment as a result of a stroke.

[Funtatlaguy]

100. I just spit out my water. Perfect!

[Imperialism Inc.]

97. Is the judge being paid by the hour?

Holy crap, my brain can't work slowly enough to follow him. Shouldn't a judge be used to speaking in front of people?

[Funtatlaguy]

110. It is painful. I hope it still resonates what he's saying...but...

[nolabear]

98. Wood got tired and just read his words for him.

[livetohike]

99. No basis in the Constitution for the theory espoused by a Eastman.

None at all.

[badhair77]

102. There was a huge build up around this judge.

He’s a major disappointment for me. He’s dragging things down. I respect his knowledge but he’s difficult to follow.

[C_U_L8R]

103. He's a better writer than a speaker

[badhair77]

104. Very true.

I hope viewers don’t get bored and turn the channel.

[nolabear]

105. But what he's saying is important and damning if slow.

Given who he is, what he’s saying is hard to rebut. That delivery will be all the news, I fear.

[rownesheck]

112. Yes.

I have to back out of the stream I'm watching when he starts speaking.

I just don't have the patience.

[Totally Tunsie]

117. By the time he gets to the end of a sentence, I've forgotten

what he said at the beginning.

[Scrivener7]

106. Oh good! He's disagreeing with Jacobs saying the Constitution is "inartful"

in it's description of how the electoral college works and how it comes into the theory of alternate electors.

He's saying it is a definite process and he's reciting the process.

[Mersky]

107. Luttig is now explaining his Sept. 22, 2021 tweet/analysis refuting Eastman's scheme

Link to tweet

On edit: I think he referred to his tweet as being from the 22nd, but I believe this is the tweeted thread in question.

[livetohike]

108. "The sacred process of the counting of the electoral votes

in the states.”. 1857 Electoral Count Act

[Scrivener7]

113. **** LET'S GO TO THREAD #2 . HERE'S THE LINK: ****

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100216808293

[livetohike]

114. I'm glad he's speaking slowly and deliberately. More time to absorb

time to absorb the seriousness of what happened.

[Novara]

115. Luttig is making it pellucidly clear

[crickets]

116. Luttig: President of the Senate, on Jan 6 the VP of the US has

"little substantive Constitutional authority if any at all." The 12th amendment... says in substance that following the transmission of the certificates to Congress and the archivist, that the presiding officer shall open the certificates in the presence of the Congress in joint session. Says nothing about counting.

Electoral Count Act of 1887 provides an actual process for the counting of the electoral votes that neither the original Constitution of 12th Amendment had done.

[Scrivener7]

118. **** LET'S GO TO THREAD #2 . HERE'S THE LINK: ****

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100216808293

[moonshinegnomie]

120. arrest trump and his lackeys

arrest them all. lock them up. send federal marshals in to seize them.
ban any of them from ever serving in congress.
if i had my druthers id revoke their citizenship and put them on a plane to somalia or some other failed state