Thank you Lawrence O'Donnell...

[Wounded Bear]

Just now on the Recap show with Rachel, Joy, Chris, and Nichole he pointed out that Pence could have said back on Dec 6 that he didn't have the authority to do what trump asked him to do and reject selected Electoral Votes, and that if he had spoke up then, maybe the mob wouldn't have bothered to go to DC in the first place. They had a month where they could have been hearing, "That's not going to happen" instead of "Stop the steal."

[H2O Man]

1. Recommended.

Lawrence is a good man.

[Wounded Bear]

2. Indeed! nt

[madaboutharry]

3. Pence is a man weakened by his own ambition.

He knew what the right thing to do was, but he kept silent for his own benefit.

[SimplyHadEnough]

30. So true!

Power is one hell of a drug!

[amb123]

40. Jackpot!

[hadEnuf]

43. Pence probably hoped it would wind up being settled in SCOTUS.

When it boiled down to only him he wasn't the one who was going to be charged with treason.

Remember, he had to call Dan effing Quayle for advice before making a decision that should have been obvious.

[roamer65]

4. Pence the Dense has no backbone.

He only did the right thing after running to Dan Quayle for advice.

[MyOwnPeace]

19. And when Dan Quayle is your 'adviser' -

I'm kinda' thinking we're not talking 'Constitutional Legends' here.....

[roamer65]

20. Bingo.

[PJMcK]

23. True, but...

Quayle told Pence that he did not have the authority to cherry pick the slates of Electors. He was right and Pence did the right thing on Jan. 6th.

I’m certainly not a fan or a Republican but I can see that on this one occasion, both of those men did what lawfully needed to be done.

[hadEnuf]

44. Pence did the right thing to keep himself out of court.

[mgardener]

26. Or

Intellectual giants.

[uponit7771]

38. +1,

[Liberty Belle]

27. He also asked a constitutional lawyer for advice; he testified today.

[dchill]

5. Everyone needs to listen to Lawrence O'Donnell.

Often.

[JohnSJ]

48. It is a good thing the January 6th committee didn't listen to Lawrence, or there would be very

few cooperative witnesses

This strategy also wouldn’t be helpful for the DOJ to find cooperative witnesses

Pence coming out earlier would not have stopped anything. Very likely they would have found someone to replace him. That is what was implied a few days ago with Grassley

They were unable to impeach him twice, they didn’t have enough in trump’s inner circle to invoke the 25th amendment, and Lawrence believes that if Pence came out earlier there would be no insurrection

Not a chance.

In fact I would argue that if Pence came out earlier, it would have made the insurrection even more likely

[Solly Mack]

6. Because of the silence and obsequious behavior of those around Trump, people are dead.

It's just that simple.

The country was attacked, and people are dead.

Oh, it's Trump's fault too. No doubt. Trump is guilty.

Had they spoken up then, well before January 6th took place, things could have been different.

[Wounded Bear]

7. Indeed! nt

[FakeNoose]

8. Yes Thank you Lawrence!

I believe Lawrence takes sneak-looks on DU, and that's OK. In fact it's pretty cool. Some of us have been saying this about Mike Pence since the day after the whole thing happened. He took the easy way out, kept his head down and his mouth closed.

I kept asking myself, why didn't Pence say anything when it would have made a difference? I finally figured out that Mike wanted to play both sides. He wanted to pretend he was still on Chump's team, just in case the coup really happened. If he had called a press conference on January 5th and blown the whistle to stop the whole thing from happening, well, Chump probably really would have had a contract out on him.

[Wounded Bear]

9. Jan 5th would have been too late. All the rebels were already in the DC area by then...

He needed to announce in Dec, when the EVs were certified, and given the news media a month to repeat the announcement.

[FakeNoose]

11. OK well, Pence knew about the plans at least since mid-December

Chump tried to get Pence on board several times with the plan, and that's when Mike checked around with other lawyers, also Dan Quayle. It didn't just come out of the blue. Mike KNEW the plan, and so did Bill Barr. There was plenty of time to call the whole thing off. That's what Lawrence is saying and I agree.

I've read several books so far, Bob Woodward, Michael Wolff, Jamie Raskin (not much about Pence in his book), and I'm just now finishing Jonathan Martin's, "This Will Not Pass." Mike Pence didn't say anything publicly but he started giving private interviews, and made it clear that Chump was trying like hell to get him to go along with the coup, right up to the very morning of January 6th.

[yorkster]

22. I think earlier today after the hearing and just a few

minutes ago on his program, Lawrence said that Pence should have spoken out in December, a month before the certification.

[wnylib]

32. Agree that he should have spoken up,

but I wonder who would have believed him.

Trump would have immediately denied any such plan, then would have publicly ridiculed Pence mercilessly. MAGATs would believe whatever Trump said. Mainstream media talking heads would have discussed it with each other on air like a couple of middle school girls sharing gossip.

"What do you think? Did the president really come up with such a plan?"

"Well, it certainly would be a first in American history. Would a president go that far? But then Donald Trump really does break all traditions, doesn't he?"

Would it have stopped Trump? Maybe. But he could have just brazenly gone ahead with the Capitol attack plan and had Pence forcibly removed from the scene so Grassley could take over.

[ancianita]

10. Maybe I missed something. Did Pence even think the electoral law mattered back in December?

Back then, 60 court decisions were going on. Why would Pence have even brought the electoral count up before the time Trump tweeted the "be wild" invitation on Dec 14? And once Trump had done that, the issue of the electors would still have kicked into gear with Trump's people, but without Pence's immediate knowledge, because Pence reasonably thought at first that the rally would be just that.

When Pence found out Trump wanted to wrangle him into team coup, he likely could not have spoken up to the crowd because he's not the boss.

[turbinetree]

12. Lawrence O'Donnell never minces words.....

[halfulglas]

13. TFG surrounded himself with weak people. He did in government as he

did in his business. They depended on him for everything and were easy to manipulate. Other administrations aim for excellence to do a good job for the government but that's not what TFG wanted. He was jealous of any publicity any of his people got. It was MY generals, MY, MY, MY.

[bucolic_frolic]

14. They also could have eliminated Pence and removed all obstacles

so Pence may have had legitimate safety concerns and thought it best for personal or political reasons to try to ride out the storm

[ancianita]

16. They couldn't because Pence was committed to doing his job. Which he did.

Even as Eastman was texting to his lawyer, Jacob, Pence was standing in the rejoined joint session to declare the electoral count for Biden and Harris.

He's no hero. He just did his job.

[speak easy]

28. ???? the Vice President cannot be 'fired'

[czarjak]

15. Pence picked his poison believing it was god's will.

[Cha]

17. TY!

💙💛

[Jarqui]

18. The GOP knew - not just Pence ..nt

[TeamProg]

24. Maybe Pence played along not only to survive but to perhaps become

the “hero” that some are calling him.

Pence was mostly weak. He sought out what others thought on the matter of rejecting electors as if it could be done.

Not very well versed in the law.

[malaise]

25. Love him

😀

[relayerbob]

29. Well, of course, he's an utter coward

But that wouldn't have changed anything, IMO

[Hotler]

31. What if the pipe bombs went off and killed somebody. And they would have been able

to prevent it?

Everyone of the henchmen and TFG allies that got book deals should be sued in civil court for death and injuries suffered by the Capital Police. Because of their silence people died and were injured.

[niyad]

33. KNR

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

34. K&R.

[eppur_se_muova]

35. Oh, GREAT idea-- give TFG and Congressional Uglicans a month to work out an alternative plan.

I can just see MAGAts in Congress moving to impeach Pence and replace him with someone more pliable, and moving at breakneck speed to do it. Without control of the House, it probably wouldn't work, but it would sure be an opportunity to game the system, or just pressure Pence to leave office.

You can't inform the public what you're going to do without tipping off the bad guys.

I like Lawrence, but sometimes he lets his preaching get ahead of the facts.

[ShepKat]

36. I honestly believe if he did that he would have got in an 'accident'

His rabid cult followers would have labeled him a traitor and eliminated 'the threat'.

[Susan Calvin]

42. My first thought was something like that.

My thought was that if they knew Pence wasn't going to go along they would have found another way.

[JohnSJ]

47. I don't know about an accident, but they would have done everything to force him out, and

find someone to take his place.

This was brought up a few days ago by using Grassley to do such a thing.

We came very close to losing our government, and media Monday morning quarterbacks think bashing the guy who did certify the election because he didn’t come forward sooner is a good strategy?

How many cooperative witnesses will the January 6th committee get if they take that approach?

More important, how many cooperative witnesses will the DOJ get if they approach witnesses that way

[JI7]

37. While I agree about Pence being a coward. I don't think it would have prevented the ignorant mob

from doing what they did. Remember that they were looking to kill members if Congress.

Do you really think them knowing Pence doesn't have authority to change things would stop them ?

The reason for it all was they were ok with stealing the election.

[uponit7771]

39. Pence **SHOULD** have known he would be murdered but like too many he believed he'd be saved

... by the "system" vs being a part of the system with oversight

[Paladin]

41. Yes, thank you, L.O.D. And a note to DU'ers:

How about we stop creating and contributing to threads which praise Mike Pence, way more than he deserves? You know the threads I'm talking about: the ones with images of Pence dramatically huddled over a phone, taking constructive action while a family member looks on with anxious concern, all while a fucking lunatic in the White House is trying to put the finishing touches on a dictatorship. Let's leave the establishment of Pence's 2024 presidential campaign to the Republicans and not offer any assistance.

[JohnSJ]

46. You realize that Pence doesn't have a chance to get the republican nomination because he

certified the election right?

[JohnSJ]

45. That is why the January 6th committee is much wiser than Lawrence, and got people that were

part of the trump circle to testify.

As far as his hypothetical implication that if Pence had only spoke up earlier that he didn’t have that authority he could have stopped the insurrection, Not Likely

Trump and his fan boys would have said yes he could

I guess memories are short. He couldn’t impeached because the votes weren’t there, and there were not enough in his inner circle to execute the 25th amendment

and Lawrence thinks that would have stopped the insurrection

Since Lawrence can play hypotheticals, and after the fact, what do you think might have happened if Pence came out and said he didn’t have the authority a month before?

What I suspect a more likely scenario would be is they would have found a way to remove Pence as VP, and either have Grassley or someone else jump in there who was willing NOT to certify the election.

When you have people who align themselves with Pence willing to testify, you don’t need to accuse the person they support, as someone who should have come forward sooner, and then expect cooperation

Thank goodness these Monday morning quarterbacks from the media aren’t on the January 6th committee

We almost lost our government, and Lawrence feels it is productive to bash the person who DID certify the election, because he didn’t speak up sooner.