Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News Editorials & Other Articles General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

Celerity

(53,997 posts)
Thu Jun 16, 2022, 08:33 PM Jun 2022

Arresting Trump Will Get Ugly, The Alternative Is Worse

We are damned if we do, and damned if we don't. But the future of America is at stake, so bravery is needed to confront this grave existential threat.

https://thebanter.substack.com/p/arresting-trump-will-get-ugly-the



Sometimes I wonder if the people who write for the major news outlets really understand the moment in history we find ourselves trapped in. By and large, these same people completely ignored the danger of the right’s growing addiction to racism, violence, and authoritarianism. Now that America’s fascist movement is too obvious to wave away as liberal hysteria, they don’t quite seem to get what it is they’re looking at. Steve Phillips’ Guardian column, “If America fails to punish its insurrectionists, it could see a wave of domestic terror,” is correct, and solidly based in history. But it overlooks what cannot be wished away: If America does punish its insurrectionists, we’ll see a wave of domestic terror anyway.

No accountability = more terrorism

Phillips makes the case that we must hold Republican insurrectionists accountable or the consequences will be dire. He doesn’t mean that Republicans will try again, although they obviously will. What Phillips is referring to is the very clear historical precedent set after the Civil War:

Phillips is correct here. Instead of hanging the entire leadership of the Confederacy for treason, they were allowed to go home unscathed. The men responsible for more American deaths than almost every other war in American history combined then started a long campaign to undermine the rule of law. As Phillips points out, it worked. Southern conservative racists ran rampant for a century, murdering thousands and assaulting and assassinating elected officials. The government put up a desultory effort to stop it but withdrew federal troops in 1877 as part of a crass political deal, leaving the southern Black population at the mercy of terrorists. Eventually, this prompted the Great Migration during which millions of American citizens fled the violence of the South.

What makes us think this would happen again? Because it never really stopped. The police have been terrorizing Black communities for generations. White America didn’t bother noticing until it was on video and impossible to avoid but police violence against Black skin is a constant reality. It’s important to note that once it become undeniable that the police were out of control, very little happened. The opposite occurred, in fact. We gave the police weapons of war and made it easier than ever to evade accountability. The response from the police has been to become “warrior cops”, ever ready to pull the trigger with little to no provocation. Now, no one is safe from their violence. Men, women, children, the elderly, the handicapped, all equal targets of opportunity for a power trip and a rush of adrenaline. But the terrorism inflicted on the Black community is still on another level.

snip
55 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Arresting Trump Will Get Ugly, The Alternative Is Worse (Original Post) Celerity Jun 2022 OP
If tfg isn't arrested after this, the USA will be a footnote. C Moon Jun 2022 #1
YES DENVERPOPS Jun 2022 #2
Maybe he'll resist arrest Orrex Jun 2022 #3
I'm hoping gopiscrap Jun 2022 #4
I just want him on a private plane to any country where we don't have extradition. lindysalsagal Jun 2022 #28
Direct to Russia homegirl Jun 2022 #34
Works for me. lindysalsagal Jun 2022 #35
snort! Sounds ok by me. electric_blue68 Jun 2022 #51
The whole damn government is compromised top to bottom. Initech Jun 2022 #5
get 10 of the biggest blackest mother fuckers on the force and carry his ass to jail demtenjeep Jun 2022 #6
This message was self-deleted by its author Chin music Jun 2022 #13
What the...? Treefrog Jun 2022 #20
Sadly, I think the chance was lost on J7th dweller Jun 2022 #7
I am pretty sure of one thing: world wide wally Jun 2022 #8
I wish there was a way KS Toronado Jun 2022 #23
I felt that way about bundy and his loser spawn rpannier Jun 2022 #9
I can't remember who but one of those on CNN or MSNBC Bev54 Jun 2022 #10
Smart move I think. n/t yorkster Jun 2022 #14
Ari Melber and Maya Wiley both said this at different times. Celerity Jun 2022 #24
Oh, that makes a LOT of sense! ShazzieB Jun 2022 #40
It may not get as ugly as they think. Those that went to DC may not be too keen on Trump now Quixote1818 Jun 2022 #11
Disagree... RevBrotherThomas Jun 2022 #27
Not damned cilla4progress Jun 2022 #12
He will NOT be arrested. EOM. progressoid Jun 2022 #15
My belief as well. KentuckyWoman Jun 2022 #39
This message was self-deleted by its author stillspkg Jun 2022 #16
If he is arrested..... The Grand Illuminist Jun 2022 #17
I wouldn't lose any sleep ecstatic Jun 2022 #22
So let them think he is a martyr. The Grand Illuminist Jun 2022 #26
I say fix him a nice apt.on Alcatraz for exile. Captain Zero Jun 2022 #50
Still too much of an influencer. The Grand Illuminist Jun 2022 #54
Congress? wnylib Jun 2022 #38
Article 3 section 3 The Grand Illuminist Jun 2022 #41
Regarding treason, wnylib Jun 2022 #42
I believe this was a form of levying war to get their way. The Grand Illuminist Jun 2022 #45
You believe that it was war. Some people will wnylib Jun 2022 #46
A form of levying war. The Grand Illuminist Jun 2022 #55
I understand the alternative part but... Septua Jun 2022 #18
K&R! If he is not prosecuted we can say by to democracy. burrowowl Jun 2022 #19
All I can say is, please don't protect his head when throwing him in the back of the police van ecstatic Jun 2022 #21
This is fantasy I think ... BettyonRed Jun 2022 #25
Time for The Wizard Jun 2022 #29
There's a whole bunch of people who need to be locked up Seeking Serenity Jun 2022 #30
Build Back Better? 😁 electric_blue68 Jun 2022 #52
Lol! nt ecstatic Jun 2022 #53
Hopefully the J6 hearings Turbineguy Jun 2022 #31
Arrest him and provide sufficient security support to ward off any attempts. LiberalFighter Jun 2022 #32
Judgment Day is coming! Emile Jun 2022 #33
"crass political deal" is a euphemism for "stolen election" robertpaulsen Jun 2022 #36
There's at least two books about that ... eppur_se_muova Jun 2022 #37
I urge the nation not to repeat the mistake of the civil war. The Jungle 1 Jun 2022 #43
They're domestic terrorists. Lock 'em up if they commit a crime. Roisin Ni Fiachra Jun 2022 #44
I'm not worried it'll "get ugly." I'm only worried that they might never arrest him. Once he's Martin68 Jun 2022 #47
I'll never be resolved till the orange asshole is in a orange jumpsuit being lead away to jail. OverBurn Jun 2022 #48
Which one of the lawyers in the hearing said that ... Novara Jun 2022 #49

Orrex

(66,804 posts)
3. Maybe he'll resist arrest
Thu Jun 16, 2022, 10:37 PM
Jun 2022

And then they can treat him like they'd treat a 14 year old black kid who "reached for his waistband."

lindysalsagal

(22,840 posts)
28. I just want him on a private plane to any country where we don't have extradition.
Fri Jun 17, 2022, 09:44 AM
Jun 2022

As long as he can't run again, in what's left of his decrepit life, I'll sleep easier.

homegirl

(1,938 posts)
34. Direct to Russia
Fri Jun 17, 2022, 05:02 PM
Jun 2022

where Putin will welcome him with a parade, a medal and within six months the poisoned umbrella tip death that looks like a massive stroke!


Initech

(107,962 posts)
5. The whole damn government is compromised top to bottom.
Thu Jun 16, 2022, 10:44 PM
Jun 2022

It's going to take a long ass time to root all of these traitors out, but it must be done. The Murdoch / MAGA cult is going to be out for blood and it's not going to be pretty. But we must do the right thing, no matter what the cost.

 

demtenjeep

(31,997 posts)
6. get 10 of the biggest blackest mother fuckers on the force and carry his ass to jail
Thu Jun 16, 2022, 10:45 PM
Jun 2022

and don't be so nice when they drop him

Response to demtenjeep (Reply #6)

dweller

(28,000 posts)
7. Sadly, I think the chance was lost on J7th
Thu Jun 16, 2022, 10:47 PM
Jun 2022

When the DOJ, FBI, US MARSHALLS whatever, should have surrounded the White House and clapped irons on Pisswig, Meadows, Eastman and whatever other conspirators were present … and held them for questioning for the 2 weeks until Biden took office …
25thA should have been in the House being voted on, called by Pence, and any further insurrectionists and further trouble met with equal force by the National Guard and the military if need be … and don’t bother telling me ‘that’s how Putin operates’ … it would have been a grand ‘Fuck You’ to Putin as to how America handles dictator wannabes …

Instead here we are nearly 2 years later reviewing the days that we almost lost the soul of Democracy, our Constitution and our freedom as if hindsight is greater than foresight.

We missed our chance, and history will judge us unkindly …


rant off, dammit



✌🏻

KS Toronado

(23,361 posts)
23. I wish there was a way
Fri Jun 17, 2022, 01:07 AM
Jun 2022

to tag every reQublicOn who voted against certifying the electoral college votes the night of Jan 6th
as co-conspirators in a coup to overthrow our Government and kick them all out of Congress.

rpannier

(24,871 posts)
9. I felt that way about bundy and his loser spawn
Thu Jun 16, 2022, 11:08 PM
Jun 2022

We'd be paying a price for not confronting them... and I think we have
This will be 1000x worse if we don't

Bev54

(13,320 posts)
10. I can't remember who but one of those on CNN or MSNBC
Thu Jun 16, 2022, 11:12 PM
Jun 2022

explained that is why Garland wanted the Proud Boys and Oath Keepers charged and/or in prison because they are responsible for organizing a lot of the violence when they take down Trump. They want to break up the militia first and foremost because they do expect trouble when it happens.

Quixote1818

(31,145 posts)
11. It may not get as ugly as they think. Those that went to DC may not be too keen on Trump now
Thu Jun 16, 2022, 11:17 PM
Jun 2022

since he didn't give them a pardon. I think the bulk of Republicans won't want to get involved and possibly end up in jail. I also think deep down many know he is full of shit.

RevBrotherThomas

(856 posts)
27. Disagree...
Fri Jun 17, 2022, 09:29 AM
Jun 2022

The GOP is in fear of & beholden to their loudest constituents, who only want more trump/trump acolytes. The GOP as a legitimate political party is just about dead. Once the few bonafide never-trumpers get voted out/fade away/killed off, it will be.

I do agree with the OP; whether or not indictments/convictions result from these hearings, you can bet on bloodshed.

KentuckyWoman

(7,384 posts)
39. My belief as well.
Fri Jun 17, 2022, 08:47 PM
Jun 2022

I'd be happy to see him get, the everloving, snot, off, my, tee, vee.

I managed to purge the idiot out of my head but with J6 hearings, here we go again.

Response to Celerity (Original post)

The Grand Illuminist

(2,027 posts)
17. If he is arrested.....
Thu Jun 16, 2022, 11:44 PM
Jun 2022

Be prepared for Article 3 remedies. Meaning the penalty for treason is death. It is most likely what congress will go for. So if you are against the death penalty, perhaps it is time to swallow that pride.

ecstatic

(35,032 posts)
22. I wouldn't lose any sleep
Fri Jun 17, 2022, 12:52 AM
Jun 2022

although I don't like the idea of making him into a matyr. Let him rot in prison. His fans are nutty enough.

That said, the minions who assisted him can get the chair afaic. Adios.

Captain Zero

(8,807 posts)
50. I say fix him a nice apt.on Alcatraz for exile.
Sat Jun 18, 2022, 04:04 PM
Jun 2022

Also tell him we won't stop him if he wants to try to swim to San Francisco at night.

The Grand Illuminist

(2,027 posts)
41. Article 3 section 3
Fri Jun 17, 2022, 09:33 PM
Jun 2022
The Congress shall have Power to declare the Punishment of Treason, but no Attainder of Treason shall work Corruption of Blood, or Forfeiture except during the Life of the Person attainted.

wnylib

(25,355 posts)
42. Regarding treason,
Sat Jun 18, 2022, 04:20 AM
Jun 2022

Congress has the power to levy the sentence for treason. Who conducts the trial to convict someone of treason?

Insurrection and sedition are not the same as treason. The constitution defines treason as levying war against the states or aiding and giving comfort to the enemy.

Does J6 amount to levying war against the states? It was definitely an insurrection, and some members of the mob did commit sedition, or are at least charged with it. But was it a war?

Trump incited an insurrection. There is a good case for that. The J6 committee is still investigating whether there was direct contact between Trump and the seditionists and whether he ordered or abetted the sedition. It sure looks like it, but what evidence is there that would hold up in court?

Looks like Trump is guilty of inciting an insurrection and possibly of sedition, but not treason as the constitution defines treason.

The Grand Illuminist

(2,027 posts)
45. I believe this was a form of levying war to get their way.
Sat Jun 18, 2022, 01:13 PM
Jun 2022

One does not need a weapon or a group weaponized to levy. The law calls it strong arm.

Septua

(2,957 posts)
18. I understand the alternative part but...
Thu Jun 16, 2022, 11:51 PM
Jun 2022

..where's the explanation of the ugly if he gets arrested? When the hell are people going to accept Trump for what he is? An evil, corrupt and dishonorable example of humanity who tried to overturn an election in order to remain in power. Arresting and convicting the man will be justice, plain and simple.

ecstatic

(35,032 posts)
21. All I can say is, please don't protect his head when throwing him in the back of the police van
Fri Jun 17, 2022, 12:49 AM
Jun 2022

That's the way tfg likes it. Foot shackles would be a nice touch too.

Regarding insurrection rebellions and terrorism, bring it on. Though I don't like guns and I'm in a blue county, just about everyone is armed around here... so if they come to our community to start trouble, they will be dealt with. Period.

 

BettyonRed

(40 posts)
25. This is fantasy I think ...
Fri Jun 17, 2022, 01:34 AM
Jun 2022

I work in a conservative industry…but nobody around me watched..nobody cares. I don’t see this moving forward. I see the fervor here on DU, but not in real life.

Seeking Serenity

(3,295 posts)
30. There's a whole bunch of people who need to be locked up
Fri Jun 17, 2022, 12:05 PM
Jun 2022

Building long-tern maximum-security prisons to hold them all is also infrastructure. Just sayin'

LiberalFighter

(53,544 posts)
32. Arrest him and provide sufficient security support to ward off any attempts.
Fri Jun 17, 2022, 04:26 PM
Jun 2022

Including snipers to take out anyone getting too close.

Maybe even arrest any senators or representative that refused to vote convict him for impeachment.

Then have Congress remove those Republicans from their office. And each state loses their Republican representative senator for ten years.

Dang I thought we could do this.

robertpaulsen

(8,697 posts)
36. "crass political deal" is a euphemism for "stolen election"
Fri Jun 17, 2022, 05:09 PM
Jun 2022

The New York governor who helped bring down Boss Tweed should have been President Samuel J. Tilden. Instead we got Rutherfraud Hayes and, as this author accurately illuminates, more than 100 years of white supremacist domestic terrorism. I wrote a blog and vlog entry detailing the whole debacle:

 

The Jungle 1

(4,552 posts)
43. I urge the nation not to repeat the mistake of the civil war.
Sat Jun 18, 2022, 07:53 AM
Jun 2022

We did not hang Lee or Davis. In fact we punished not one!
For the next 160 years the south celebrated the civil war and still does. They celebrate with their flag of treason and statues of dead losers. They have also spent the last 160 years terrorizing Black Americans.
We need to learn from that mistake.

Roisin Ni Fiachra

(2,574 posts)
44. They're domestic terrorists. Lock 'em up if they commit a crime.
Sat Jun 18, 2022, 08:52 AM
Jun 2022

If their fascist insurrectionist cohorts respond with violence, let the US military sort them out.

No quarter for violent fascist terrorists.

Martin68

(27,311 posts)
47. I'm not worried it'll "get ugly." I'm only worried that they might never arrest him. Once he's
Sat Jun 18, 2022, 03:15 PM
Jun 2022

behind bars, he's off the streets and humiliated. His cult won't see him as a martyr - they will start to see him as a loser. Everyone will start to disavow him and pretend they never really supported him. These are rats, and Trump is their sinking ship. And the FBI, et al will arrest anyone who does anything "ugly" and we'll have them off the streets, too.

Novara

(6,115 posts)
49. Which one of the lawyers in the hearing said that ...
Sat Jun 18, 2022, 04:02 PM
Jun 2022

... if they overthrow the election there will be violence in the streets? Same thing applies if the orange motherfucker isn't prosecuted.

We have been waiting for consequences for his blatant criminality since 2016. SIX YEARS we have been calling for justice because he has repeatedly broken the law - in plain sight of us all.

This is the most serious crime committed against America: to overthrow its government. HE HAS TO BE PROSECUTED.

Taking home highly classified documents, colluding with a foreign power to win an election, outing classified materials and exposing undercover operatives, stealing from the American public via emoluments violations? None of that holds a candle to seditious conspiracy to overthrow the government.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Arresting Trump Will Get ...