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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsArresting Trump Will Get Ugly, The Alternative Is Worse
We are damned if we do, and damned if we don't. But the future of America is at stake, so bravery is needed to confront this grave existential threat.https://thebanter.substack.com/p/arresting-trump-will-get-ugly-the
Sometimes I wonder if the people who write for the major news outlets really understand the moment in history we find ourselves trapped in. By and large, these same people completely ignored the danger of the rights growing addiction to racism, violence, and authoritarianism. Now that Americas fascist movement is too obvious to wave away as liberal hysteria, they dont quite seem to get what it is theyre looking at. Steve Phillips Guardian column, If America fails to punish its insurrectionists, it could see a wave of domestic terror, is correct, and solidly based in history. But it overlooks what cannot be wished away: If America does punish its insurrectionists, well see a wave of domestic terror anyway.
No accountability = more terrorism
Phillips makes the case that we must hold Republican insurrectionists accountable or the consequences will be dire. He doesnt mean that Republicans will try again, although they obviously will. What Phillips is referring to is the very clear historical precedent set after the Civil War:
Phillips is correct here. Instead of hanging the entire leadership of the Confederacy for treason, they were allowed to go home unscathed. The men responsible for more American deaths than almost every other war in American history combined then started a long campaign to undermine the rule of law. As Phillips points out, it worked. Southern conservative racists ran rampant for a century, murdering thousands and assaulting and assassinating elected officials. The government put up a desultory effort to stop it but withdrew federal troops in 1877 as part of a crass political deal, leaving the southern Black population at the mercy of terrorists. Eventually, this prompted the Great Migration during which millions of American citizens fled the violence of the South.
What makes us think this would happen again? Because it never really stopped. The police have been terrorizing Black communities for generations. White America didnt bother noticing until it was on video and impossible to avoid but police violence against Black skin is a constant reality. Its important to note that once it become undeniable that the police were out of control, very little happened. The opposite occurred, in fact. We gave the police weapons of war and made it easier than ever to evade accountability. The response from the police has been to become warrior cops, ever ready to pull the trigger with little to no provocation. Now, no one is safe from their violence. Men, women, children, the elderly, the handicapped, all equal targets of opportunity for a power trip and a rush of adrenaline. But the terrorism inflicted on the Black community is still on another level.
snip
C Moon
(12,208 posts)DENVERPOPS
(8,787 posts)Thank you for your comment.................If some major changes don't take place........WASF
Orrex
(63,168 posts)And then they can treat him like they'd treat a 14 year old black kid who "reached for his waistband."
gopiscrap
(23,725 posts)lindysalsagal
(20,562 posts)As long as he can't run again, in what's left of his decrepit life, I'll sleep easier.
homegirl
(1,427 posts)where Putin will welcome him with a parade, a medal and within six months the poisoned umbrella tip death that looks like a massive stroke!
lindysalsagal
(20,562 posts)electric_blue68
(14,807 posts)Initech
(100,027 posts)It's going to take a long ass time to root all of these traitors out, but it must be done. The Murdoch / MAGA cult is going to be out for blood and it's not going to be pretty. But we must do the right thing, no matter what the cost.
demtenjeep
(31,997 posts)and don't be so nice when they drop him
Response to demtenjeep (Reply #6)
Chin music This message was self-deleted by its author.
Treefrog
(4,170 posts)dweller
(23,607 posts)When the DOJ, FBI, US MARSHALLS whatever, should have surrounded the White House and clapped irons on Pisswig, Meadows, Eastman and whatever other conspirators were present
and held them for questioning for the 2 weeks until Biden took office
25thA should have been in the House being voted on, called by Pence, and any further insurrectionists and further trouble met with equal force by the National Guard and the military if need be
and dont bother telling me thats how Putin operates
it would have been a grand Fuck You to Putin as to how America handles dictator wannabes
Instead here we are nearly 2 years later reviewing the days that we almost lost the soul of Democracy, our Constitution and our freedom as if hindsight is greater than foresight.
We missed our chance, and history will judge us unkindly
rant off, dammit
✌🏻
world wide wally
(21,734 posts)You don't hold them accountable by voting them into the House and Senate
KS Toronado
(17,136 posts)to tag every reQublicOn who voted against certifying the electoral college votes the night of Jan 6th
as co-conspirators in a coup to overthrow our Government and kick them all out of Congress.
rpannier
(24,326 posts)We'd be paying a price for not confronting them... and I think we have
This will be 1000x worse if we don't
Bev54
(10,032 posts)explained that is why Garland wanted the Proud Boys and Oath Keepers charged and/or in prison because they are responsible for organizing a lot of the violence when they take down Trump. They want to break up the militia first and foremost because they do expect trouble when it happens.
yorkster
(1,456 posts)Celerity
(43,057 posts)ShazzieB
(16,261 posts)Very sound strategy, I'd say.
Quixote1818
(28,918 posts)since he didn't give them a pardon. I think the bulk of Republicans won't want to get involved and possibly end up in jail. I also think deep down many know he is full of shit.
RevBrotherThomas
(838 posts)The GOP is in fear of & beholden to their loudest constituents, who only want more trump/trump acolytes. The GOP as a legitimate political party is just about dead. Once the few bonafide never-trumpers get voted out/fade away/killed off, it will be.
I do agree with the OP; whether or not indictments/convictions result from these hearings, you can bet on bloodshed.
cilla4progress
(24,709 posts)if we do.
Only if we don't.
But I take your point.
progressoid
(49,929 posts)KentuckyWoman
(6,679 posts)I'd be happy to see him get, the everloving, snot, off, my, tee, vee.
I managed to purge the idiot out of my head but with J6 hearings, here we go again.
Response to Celerity (Original post)
stillspkg This message was self-deleted by its author.
The Grand Illuminist
(1,326 posts)Be prepared for Article 3 remedies. Meaning the penalty for treason is death. It is most likely what congress will go for. So if you are against the death penalty, perhaps it is time to swallow that pride.
ecstatic
(32,641 posts)although I don't like the idea of making him into a matyr. Let him rot in prison. His fans are nutty enough.
That said, the minions who assisted him can get the chair afaic. Adios.
The Grand Illuminist
(1,326 posts)Any decent person knows better when it comes to the greater good.
Captain Zero
(6,777 posts)Also tell him we won't stop him if he wants to try to swim to San Francisco at night.
The Grand Illuminist
(1,326 posts)And, IMV, too dangerous to be kept alive. Hate to say it and not endorsing any violence.
wnylib
(21,300 posts)They don't try crimes or give out sentences, except for impeachment of people in office.
The Grand Illuminist
(1,326 posts)The Congress shall have Power to declare the Punishment of Treason, but no Attainder of Treason shall work Corruption of Blood, or Forfeiture except during the Life of the Person attainted.
wnylib
(21,300 posts)Congress has the power to levy the sentence for treason. Who conducts the trial to convict someone of treason?
Insurrection and sedition are not the same as treason. The constitution defines treason as levying war against the states or aiding and giving comfort to the enemy.
Does J6 amount to levying war against the states? It was definitely an insurrection, and some members of the mob did commit sedition, or are at least charged with it. But was it a war?
Trump incited an insurrection. There is a good case for that. The J6 committee is still investigating whether there was direct contact between Trump and the seditionists and whether he ordered or abetted the sedition. It sure looks like it, but what evidence is there that would hold up in court?
Looks like Trump is guilty of inciting an insurrection and possibly of sedition, but not treason as the constitution defines treason.
The Grand Illuminist
(1,326 posts)One does not need a weapon or a group weaponized to levy. The law calls it strong arm.
wnylib
(21,300 posts)agree with you. But will a court see it that way? I am doubtful.
The Grand Illuminist
(1,326 posts)But it is up to congress to decide.
Septua
(2,252 posts)..where's the explanation of the ugly if he gets arrested? When the hell are people going to accept Trump for what he is? An evil, corrupt and dishonorable example of humanity who tried to overturn an election in order to remain in power. Arresting and convicting the man will be justice, plain and simple.
burrowowl
(17,632 posts)ecstatic
(32,641 posts)That's the way tfg likes it. Foot shackles would be a nice touch too.
Regarding insurrection rebellions and terrorism, bring it on. Though I don't like guns and I'm in a blue county, just about everyone is armed around here... so if they come to our community to start trouble, they will be dealt with. Period.
BettyonRed
(40 posts)I work in a conservative industry but nobody around me watched..nobody cares. I dont see this moving forward. I see the fervor here on DU, but not in real life.
The Wizard
(12,532 posts)FEMA camps.
Seeking Serenity
(2,840 posts)Building long-tern maximum-security prisons to hold them all is also infrastructure. Just sayin'
electric_blue68
(14,807 posts)ecstatic
(32,641 posts)Turbineguy
(37,281 posts)will change a few minds.
He keeps grifting. That might help too.
LiberalFighter
(50,757 posts)Including snipers to take out anyone getting too close.
Maybe even arrest any senators or representative that refused to vote convict him for impeachment.
Then have Congress remove those Republicans from their office. And each state loses their Republican representative senator for ten years.
Dang I thought we could do this.
Emile
(22,449 posts)robertpaulsen
(8,632 posts)The New York governor who helped bring down Boss Tweed should have been President Samuel J. Tilden. Instead we got Rutherfraud Hayes and, as this author accurately illuminates, more than 100 years of white supremacist domestic terrorism. I wrote a blog and vlog entry detailing the whole debacle:
eppur_se_muova
(36,246 posts)The Jungle 1
(4,552 posts)We did not hang Lee or Davis. In fact we punished not one!
For the next 160 years the south celebrated the civil war and still does. They celebrate with their flag of treason and statues of dead losers. They have also spent the last 160 years terrorizing Black Americans.
We need to learn from that mistake.
Roisin Ni Fiachra
(2,574 posts)If their fascist insurrectionist cohorts respond with violence, let the US military sort them out.
No quarter for violent fascist terrorists.
Martin68
(22,755 posts)behind bars, he's off the streets and humiliated. His cult won't see him as a martyr - they will start to see him as a loser. Everyone will start to disavow him and pretend they never really supported him. These are rats, and Trump is their sinking ship. And the FBI, et al will arrest anyone who does anything "ugly" and we'll have them off the streets, too.
OverBurn
(942 posts)Novara
(5,817 posts)... if they overthrow the election there will be violence in the streets? Same thing applies if the orange motherfucker isn't prosecuted.
We have been waiting for consequences for his blatant criminality since 2016. SIX YEARS we have been calling for justice because he has repeatedly broken the law - in plain sight of us all.
This is the most serious crime committed against America: to overthrow its government. HE HAS TO BE PROSECUTED.
Taking home highly classified documents, colluding with a foreign power to win an election, outing classified materials and exposing undercover operatives, stealing from the American public via emoluments violations? None of that holds a candle to seditious conspiracy to overthrow the government.