Mike Pence and the Secret Service driver

[AverageOldGuy]

Maybe I'm being too damn paranoid, however, after listening to all three public hearings, after reading books about Jan 6 by Schiff and Raskin, I have reason to be paranoid.

So -- the VP has Secret Service protection 24/7 by a selected SS team. The VP and his/her family get to know the SS team quite well.

When the Capitol was breached, Pence's SS guys snatched him out of the Senate chamber and took Pence, Ms. Pence, and staff down a secret tunnel to a loading dock under the Capitol where they were met by a small convoy of SS vehicles. Pence's SS team leader told him to get in so he could be taken to a secret, secure location.

Pence refused saying to the head of his SS team: "Tim, I know you and I trust you. I don't know the driver."

Pence and company spent hours in the loading dock area, finally returning to the Senate chamber to finish his Constitutional duty.

Did Pence sense that the SS driver and SS guys in the convoy were working for Trump and would kidnap him or . . . . ???

See, I told you I'm too damn paranoid.

[NCLefty]

1. This title could be a book. But probably something salacious...

[Skittles]

20. heh

that expression

[FoxNewsSucks]

2. Not really,

Not paranoid at all.

Two possibilities

1- MF45 sent them to let Pence get hanged or otherwise killed.

2- They were merely there to get Pence out of the way so Schmuck Assley (R-IA) could do MF45's dirty work.

[NJCher]

8. I've been thinking about this

And am inclined toward the second one, however, trump is completely indifferent to the dangers he posed to pence’s life.

Just think to a time when you had a boss. Think how you would feel if this person expressed no concern whatsoever for your life.

[Captain Zero]

21. I worked an evening shift and had a boss who told us to look for a bomb

called into the dept. operation and said there was a bomb threat on the building, and he said they did not think it was serious, but we should maybe look around for any suspicious packages and let the security guard know if we found anything.

My pay grade wasn't bomb detection and removal. Nowhere close.
So yeah, there are bosses like that.

Next day I told him I called my wife and said to sue the companies ass off if a bomb killed me because they didn't evacuate the building.
He says 'well I guess its a good thing there really wasn't a bomb.'

[NJCher]

24. Talk about a

Cavalier attitude toward your safety!

[ReluctanceTango]

26. When I was a postal worker

We had a package come out of the dumpster, pop open, and out rolled a fricking grenade. We manual sorters all ran to get out of the building--and the keyers followed to find out what was going on.

Then our supervisor came out of her office to find out why the whole building was suddenly dead silent. Once she heard about what happened, she called upper management on her cell phone for what to do from there. Those idiots told her to put the grenade in a box and take it outside to a nearby field.

She told them she'd do no such thing, she was leaving it where it was, and she'd let people more qualified than her deal with it. They threatened to fire her, but she held firm.

Turned out to be an antique grenade that was inert, but none of us had any way of knowing that. The idiot who mailed it got busted for mailing a weapon through the mail without the required permit to do so. Even with antiques that no longer work, you have to fill out a ton of fricking paperwork and follow extensive packing protocols to send stuff like guns or grenades through the USPS.

[leftieNanner]

3. You are not alone

I have had the same thought.

[TygrBright]

4. The explanation we heard today rings true to me: The optics.

Pence didn't want to sink his future chances by being seen to scuttle away from the Capitol in an armored limo while all the drama was going down.

On some level he still hoped he could be a future Presidential nominee.

Yes, of course he's delusional.

dismissively,
Bright

[NJCher]

11. That could be part of it

Today, however, they discussed how pence received expert advice from scholars that confirmed his original opinion that his function was highly limited. He most certainly deserves credit for understanding that his fealty is to the u.s. Constitution and not a person or a party.

Let’s give credit where credit is due.

[ReluctanceTango]

27. I think people forget that Pence

served in Congress for a few terms, so he was familiar with how the process worked. Granted, he's not a super-bright guy (or even a vaguely bright one), but he knew on some level that what was being asked of him was not the right thing to do.

I think he may have even been there when Gore had to read out the votes for his own defeat, and it may have stuck with him that Al hadn't resorted to crap like trying to replace electors, even though he was far closer in the electoral vote count than the walking pile of pig vomit was to Biden.

[SunSeeker]

30. Yes, Pence saw Gore reject objections and read out the votes of his own defeat.

And that stuck with him. Rachel, Lawrence and company were talking about that after the hearing today on MSNBC.

[brush]

14. Agreed. I think Pence was also afraid if he got in the car...

he never get back that day to finish his Constitutional duty and Grassley, the Senate Pro Tem would take over and do trump's bidding. Marial law could be declared, the EC ballots would go back to the states and trump would probably come out of it as president.

The SS driver probably wasn't a trump loyalist but it getting Pence back that day was not a certainty.

Pence also knew that this was his chance to finish off trump and open up 2024 for himself. I'd bet money that that was part of his calculation.

[Historic NY]

5. Unless they were changed for this date..

his detail should have been fairly consistent. I have a friend that was a CIA driver, they are all highly skilled in handling vehicles, meaning they just didn't showup last week.

[OnDoutside]

18. That's the question that needs answering.

[JohnSJ]

6. Not really paranoid at all

[Bev54]

7. I think there is certainly questions and I would hope the committee has spoken

to the SS agent in the car and others. It is something I think investigators would follow up on.

[moondust]

9. I would guess

Last edited Fri Jun 17, 2022, 12:59 AM - Edit history (1)

that he had been around TFG and Co. including the SS for four years and may have known that some of the SS were potentially MAGAts that he did not want to trust with his life under those circumstances.

[Tetrachloride]

10. The names of the SS detail is the key to this mystery.

Odds are the whole thing and more is very tightly held and will continue until the next century.

[progressoid]

12. I expect we will never know. Even if Pence testified, would you believe him?

He spent 5 years being a Trump toady. That's kind of a big character flaw.

[Bobstandard]

13. I think Pence feared procedure

The Secret Service has procedures for just about every eventuality and the drill implementation of them all the time. The procedure in this case would have been to get Pence to a secure location. If pence had gotten in the car the drivers training would have incented him to hit the gas and fulfill the procedure. Pence knew this so didn’t want to get in the car, suspecting that even ordering the driver to stand still wouldn’t overcome the drivers fealty to training and procedure. Had Tim been the driver pence wouldn’t have worried, but that wasn’t the case. See? A perfectly logical explanation.

I don’t entirely buy it, but it is logical.

[Bucky]

15. Pence was getting good advice

In your typical palace coup, the praetorian guards are always the ones who take out the principals.

It is unclear how the Secret Service would have reacted to orders from Trump to bring Pence to a "safe location." It's unclear how far down of the coup d'etat checklist Trump and Eastman had gamed out their little plot. I'm pretty sure outright murdering Pence would be out of the question.

But Donald Trump is not a "plans" kind of guy. He obviously was contemplating using martial law--meaning using the Secret Service and the branches of the military to overcome any demonstrations against their attempted coup.

But he and his Team Rudy conspirators clearly lacked the understanding of how the US military works. The Joint Chiefs had already agreed among themselves not to cooperate with anything truly reckless or stupid he might demand. He had no plan for how to use the powers of the executive branch to support his ridiculous comical fraud against the Electoral College.

Maybe in his desperation he might have tried to deputize the Proud Boys, Oath Keepers, and other paramilitary groups like that, but that clearly would have only led to a brief spat of violence, followed by a sweeping arrests by legitimate police and, as a last resort, the military.

The coup idea was dangerous because it would get people killed. It was not dangerous to the extent that it actually could have ever worked.

[usonian]

22. clearly lacked the understanding of how the US military works

Plus one million on that point.

They lacked understanding of how ANYTHING works.

There's this dream world, backed by "think tanks" (translation: people who use 20 dollar words to sanitize greed and racism --- Do you remember Bill Buckley?) and "think" that the world works according to their warped vision. Same for the Q's and same for all the others drawn to, or sucked into that black hole. True cult mentality.

And "Sic semper tyrannis" they go down because their warped vision detaches them from reality.

Also their blind spots. Mike Pence, not draft eligible, somehow learned a sense of duty. Possibly in his church. And TFG, not having any sense of duty except to himself, couldn't imagine any other sense of duty, or turning down the seduction of power (you know the quote).

This MAY have been the elephant in the room that foiled all their plans and un-plans (unscripted acts of insanity)

My personal speculation was that Mike Pence asked for guidance and the result was "God's Will".
If so, Mike won't admit it because there would be millions looking to hang him, not a few hundred.

[ReluctanceTango]

29. I've always called it the Manson Myth

Because, like Charles Manson, these extremists always think that they have more support than they do, be it from the military, the general public, or whoever.

[doc03]

16. Trump corrupted every level of government

why not the SS. You are not paranoid.

[Frasier Balzov]

17. That's from the Carol Leonnig / Philip Rucker book.

"If I get in that vehicle, you guys are taking off."

The way they report that remark, Pence's sole concern was abandoning his duty station which was in front of the joint session of Congress announcing the electoral votes.

They do not imply any fear on Pence's part of being killed or held somewhere against his will (a'la Martha Mitchell) at the behest of Trump and his fellow plotters.

[alphafemale]

19. If Pence and Pelosi were both out

Chuck Grassley was in.

[inthewind21]

36. Except

Grassley was also "out". As were the majority of congress.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

23. From I Alone Can Fix it by @CarolLeonnig & @PhilipRucker :

Link to tweet

[BigmanPigman]

25. That exact thought crossed my mind at least 3 times

tonight while I listened to the recap of the day. Pence didn't fear being seen as fleeing DC, he feared the driver and where he would end up.

[Solomon]

35. that's my take too. i'm not falling for the "pence did not want to be seen

leaving his job" bullshit. He heard the threats.

[Emile]

28. Grassley said on Jan 5th that he not VP would certify the results of the election. Was Pence

told what Grassley said?

[inthewind21]

37. Well,

since it was widely reported and on every news outlet I would assume yes, Pence knew.

[catrose]

31. I immediately went to "or"

[liberal N proud]

32. Some times, you have an uneasy feeling

Or he had a sense of duty

Either way, we were lucky he asked as he did that day and did what he did.

But, I have had a weird sense of danger a time or two and backed out of a situation. Once was lucky I didn’t go into the situation.

[Ilsa]

33. The first time I heard this as an excerpt from the book by

Carol Lennig and somebody, I figured Pence was concerned that the driver might have been taking orders from trump or other trumpers. They might have kidnapped him for a day to ruin the certification.

Or they might have turned him over to the mob, who would kill him, allowing TFG to declare martial law and steal the presidency.

I wish we knew for certain what the plan was.

[scarletlib]

34. That's been my thought as well.

[LiberalFighter]

38. The statement was "I know you, I trust you, but you're not the one behind the wheel"

[LiberalFighter]

39. Some members of the Secret Service need to be demoted or fired.

[Montauk6]

40. Maybe Pence saw "Goodfellas"...