Speculation: What is the timeline for TFG to be indicted

[Ohio Joe]

I've posted this speculation before in replies to other posts but I thought I'd throw it out as an OP.

I'll start here with the J6C. They are amazing... This is a far better presentation than I'd hoped for and even better, it is reaching a lot of people... Not just reaching them but convincing them. I'm only expecting them to get better with each one.

Now some bad news... I do not think that these hearings are going to alter the DOJ's process one bit. I think they are going to continue to proceed as they have, approaching this as a mob case building from the bottom up. Currently, the seditious conspirators that we know have flipped are scheduled to be sentenced in Aug/Sept. That is when the DOJ will have to file in court some of the meat of what they will testify to in court. At that time is when we can expect some in the inner circle to be indicted and plead guilty and their cooperation announced in their court filing.

None of this will be pre-announced by the DOJ and I expect that as July passes and we go into August with pretty much no word from them, there will be many saying it is proof that the DOJ has no intention of going after anyone higher up. We'll hear about how much evidence came out of the J6C and that they should do something now... But I don't expect any change to the prosecution will happen to satisfy this desire. It will be a rough time for everyone regardless of what they believe.

To make this potentially even harder, there is the possibility that sentencing can be delayed if DOJ does not finish getting/confirming everything they need from the flippers... So more silence with nothing visibly happening. More rough times for everyone.

The same process will play out again... Those in the inner circle that flip will plead guilty and we will see they are cooperating in court filings then. That starts the process of them handing over what they have and the DOJ will continue working silently to gather and confirm the evidence and only at sentencing will more information come out on when they indict tfg for 1/6. My guess is that this will happen in the January, 2023 time frame... But an actual indictment would happen around the time of the inner circle sentencing... A few months.

This speculation regards tfg's culpability in seditious conspiracy... There is more he is being investigated for that we know even less about... The fake electors? I've seen pretty much nothing solid since the investigation started. The misuse of the supposed defense funds? I think even less is known. The White House documents? Silence. More crimes? probably. These are all separate case and will not be done as one large indictment.

Anyway... That's what I think.

[PXR-5]

1. Someone on MSNBC said last night

that they better indicate and prosecute him.

If not, TFG is going to get a life like cardboard cut out of Garland and run ads with his arm around Garland saying "see folks, another stupid witch hunt even this guy agrees.

He will be considered innocent and cleared to run again along with all the other MAGAtes.

[doc03]

2. If he isn't prosicuted the coup will succeed in 2024. nt

[Mz Pip]

17. This

Trump and his minions will consider it total exoneration. He’ll be strutting around like a fat rooster for the rest of his life.

And heaven help us all if he struts into another term. He’ll use his power to destroy anyone who he deemed as insufficiently loyal. It will be ugly. Revenge of the Trumps.

[msfiddlestix]

3. Interresting, and thank you.

Seems like you understand how thiese things work. At least from my "laymen" perspective your OP suggests we're in for a much longer struggle to see Justice prevail.

I've pretty much surrendered what remaining hope I had held, that this time justice would be brought in a more timely manner, as challenging as that might be. High expectations often disappoint, but this is really different. The evil culprits are still openly and brazenly wreaking havoc, and making untold profit from it, bankrolling more evil doers in election campaigns.

Every day they are free to continue what they've been doing, is more time to bolster grift and power/support, which is frightening on a level beyond description.

Thank you for insight and of course a necessary dose of reality.



.

[Ohio Joe]

19. I'm a programmer...

I make this speculation based on how DOJ has handled the seditious conspiracy cases so far and a lot of deep dive reading over at emptywheel.net.

I hope I'm also looking at it in a logical fashion

Thanks!

[gab13by13]

4. If this is being run like a mob investigation, it's a big mistake.

When will these flippers, flip. Who will flip, Eastman is the best chance, Meadows, no way Flynn or Stone flip, they were pardoned once.

When will a Meadows, Eastman trial happen? 2024? If a jury finds him guilty, how long for an appeal, how long before sentencing? 2025? No way anyone will flip until sentencing and by then we will have the results of the 2024 election.

The wait and see crowd missed one important point, time matters. Fani Willis is going for the head of the snake, she isn't waiting to indict the inner circle.

[Fiendish Thingy]

8. Anyone who flips won't have a trial, just a sentencing

We could see ongoing delays, as in the Greenberg/Gaetz case, where Greenberg keeps providing information of value to the prosecution.

[SoCalDavidS]

13. I'm Sure Gaetz Will Get Indicted Sometime Before His 10th Term nt

[CrispyQ]

18. While Al Franken sits on the sidelines cuz our own side took him out.

And to think there was a time that I thought we were the smart party. We have been played since the 80s.

[Ohio Joe]

22. Why is it a mistake?

You say that but do not seem to address it

"When will these flippers, flip. Who will flip, Eastman is the best chance, Meadows, no way Flynn or Stone flip, they were pardoned once."

As I said in the OP, expect cooperation from the inner circle to be announced in court filings shortly after the seditious conspirators are sentenced. Who will flip? I expect the top targets are Meadows and Eastman but... It will be a race as to who wants it most and who has the most to offer. We shall see.

"When will a Meadows, Eastman trial happen? 2024? If a jury finds him guilty, how long for an appeal, how long before sentencing? 2025?"

Does not matter... If they flip, there will be no trial. If they don't and someone(s) else does, who cares.

"No way anyone will flip until sentencing and by then we will have the results of the 2024 election."

Based on what has factually happened so far, this is completely untrue and has no basis in reality.

"The wait and see crowd missed one important point, time matters. Fani Willis is going for the head of the snake, she isn't waiting to indict the inner circle."

These are two very different cases. DA Willis does not need the inner circle in order to prosecute. I suggest checking into the differences in the cases.

[Novara]

5. I'd rather see justice take a long time than not happen at all

I couldn't begin to guess WHEN things might happen. None of us here can, really.

I hope that as soon as the J6 committee is done presenting their evidence, the DOJ will take steps, and that's even before the J6 committee presents its final report, which won't come until September at the earliest. To us the evidence is clear. It will be even clearer after today. But the DOJ might wait until the final report, which, IMO, would be a mistake if they already have enough evidence to issue indictments. I don't want to see the public cooling off between the end of the hearings and when they issue their report.

We need to stay on their case.

What we can do, however, is contact the DOJ and let them know we are expecting justice to be done and that means swiftly indicting the orange motherfucker.

Contact the DOJ: https://www.justice.gov/contact-us

Let's not let up on the pressure.

[Ohio Joe]

20. Agreed...

I think it is important that the DOJ knows we want justice. If I could, I'd rec your post... Good stuff

[Novara]

24. Thank you. I plan to keep posting the DOJ contact info

We need to get involved. To me, if this all falls apart I'l beat myself up if I didn't at least try to let the DOJ know what I want them to do.

I may not have much power but I do have my voice.

[fightforfreedom]

6. I have said from the beginning, this is the largest, most sensitive investigation in our history.

It's going to take a long time. Even now more evidence, new crimes are being uncovered. The investigations are growing in size, not shrinking.

As far as when Garland will indict people in Trumps inner circle, I have no idea. I would not be surprised if it didn't happen until next year.

[Funtatlaguy]

7. Until the 12th of Never...and you know how long that is.

[malaise]

9. From JHB's cartoon thread

About this time

[SoonerPride]

10. If we lose the house and senate they will just defund the DOJ to halt the investigations

You think I'm kidding or delusional?

They will stop at nothing to nip this in the bud.

[fightforfreedom]

12. Really????????

[Fiendish Thingy]

14. You're delusional. You think they're going to shut down the government for two years?

They can’t selectively defund the DOJ, as Biden would never sign a budget that did that, so they would have to be willing to shut down the entire government.

That would put a kink in their 2024 strategy…

[Fiendish Thingy]

11. I agree with your general sequencing and timeline

I think we’ll see indictments of the coup architects (Eastman, Giuliani, Clark, Meadows) beginning In August at the earliest and proceeding into the fall.

As the coupsters sweat and try to scrape up funds for legal fees, the plea deal proffers may be negotiated, as you said, likely in silence.

TFG won’t likely be indicted by DOJ until the end of 2022 at the earliest, more like early 2023.

The big question mark is the indictments of the lesser players (Gosar, Brooks, Thomas, fraudulent electors, etc) who are still Guilty As Fuck of some serious crimes.

However, I think the Fulton County Grand Jury could issue indictments as early as July, since they are due to finish their work in June (I know it’s a special grand jury without the power to indict directly, and their findings have to be presented to a regular grand jury, so let’s say late July)

[artemisia1]

15. One can dream that this lifelong malignant narcissistic criminal will finally be held accountable,

but I fear (believe) that power, unfortunately bipartisan to a degree, will circle the wagons and protect itself lest they be next. I am not counting upon an indictment. Sorry.

[Ohio Joe]

21. Fair enough but... Consider this...

Garland could have spent four years going after the low level thugs at the Capitol, had a bunch of show trials and called it a career. This was what I feared most at first.

But... He did not stop there.

He went after and caught the next level up and now has 16 (At least... More?, I'd have to go check), including 2 not at the Capitol, charged with seditious conspiracy. Again, he could have stopped there... Had the trials and called it a career. At this point, he probably would have even been made to look as if he had gone above and beyond. A lot of people never expected the investigation to go that far.

But... Again, he did not stop there.

He flipped at least three of the seditious conspirators (that we know of) and in the agreement said he plans to use them in the Grand Jury (we'll get to that). He could have stopped there, not wanted them in a Grand Jury, and had the show trials doubly nailing the 12 in even bigger fashion and bigger TV clip drama with one of them on the stand pointing the finger.

But... Still he did not stop there.

He convened a Grand Jury. You do not do that unless you plan to go higher... And any higher is TFG's inner circle, in this case (with thee seditious conspirators flipping) that mean Roger Stone at the least. The same Roger Stone that currently is having a fairly public falling out with maga world. We also know that at this point there are at least eight of TFG's inner circle under investigation... They are:

TOM BARRACK
RUDY GIULIANI
ROBERT COSTELLO
SIDNEY POWELL
MARK MEADOWS
ALEX JONES
ROGER STONE
ERIK PRINCE

For more on Grand Juries for 1/6, see here:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100216589606#post12

We also know what is needed... What is nice to have... What is known to be had... What is still needed... And how what is needed might be gotten to go directly after TFG, see this previous post of mine:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100216561245

So... Where and when do you think Garland stops? Does he throw the Grand Jury to let them off? What if they indict? My suspicion is that this Grand Jury is just to go after the inner circle and not TFG yet... I think that for a reason... He has gone after this from day 1 as though it were a mob case, it certainly appears to me to be a text book mob case. Once he has indictments against the inner circle, you have a different set of defendants than any before... Older men who tried for a coup and failed... Older men now facing dying in jail going up against someone they know has them nailed.

[artemisia1]

33. Agreed. He is, however, only one man. However, I hope your view is the correct one. /nt

[Thunderbeast]

16. In the mean time, state prosecutions will proceed

Fulton County is talking about racketeering charges that could wrap up a number of players.

If the prosecution is successful, Governor Kemp (if re-elected) will be under great pressure to commute.

[empedocles]

23. Fulton County in protecting its prosection, has nothing like the unlimited trumper

resources, to corrupt at every step of the process - starting months ago.

[Novara]

26. Heh. I'm having pre-schadenfreude thinking about the obstruction charge when ...

... the orange motherfucker contacts Kemp and begs/cajoles/threatens him to get a pardon.

[Thunderbeast]

32. Let's just hope that Governor Abrahms answers the phone!

[mopinko]

25. when the hearings wrap up, everything goes to doj.

and i'd guess a few of the lawyers, as well.

it's all going public at that point. there will be no place to .

[Novara]

27. Even when the hearings are done, the J6 committee isn't done.

They are still taking depositions and they will issue a final report. Maybe even an interim report. In addition, they may schedule additional hearings.

The end of this round of hearings only means the end of this round of hearings.

[mopinko]

29. what happens when the hearings end should be interesting.

[Novara]

30. I hope for public demonstrations

I hope we make a hell of a lot of noise demanding justice.

[mopinko]

31. +1m

[maxsolomon]

28. Early next year.

Before Trump declares his run for 2024. Better keep it secret, too, because he'll declare the second he gets a hint the indictment is coming.

IF. I don't believe the DOJ will indict.