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StrictlyRockers

(3,855 posts)
Tue Jun 21, 2022, 11:04 AM Jun 2022

Oil companies are keeping gas prices inflated to help Republicans get elected

Oil companies are keeping gas prices inflated to help Republicans get elected in exchange for maintaining ongoing tax breaks.

They are taking advantage of the pandemic and the war in Ukraine to price gouge the entire country on gas prices. It helps get Republicans elected, and in a vicious circle, the oil companies make a bunch of money, some of which they kick back to Republican candidates who enact favorable tax laws for the energy companies.


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Oil companies are keeping gas prices inflated to help Republicans get elected (Original Post) StrictlyRockers Jun 2022 OP
This message was self-deleted by its author Chin music Jun 2022 #1
Jamaica 1979/80 malaise Jun 2022 #2
Of course there is historical precedent for this. StrictlyRockers Jun 2022 #24
Yes! When are we going to make campaign finance a REAL ISSUE? Dustlawyer Jun 2022 #26
it was in the voting rights bill... that fucking was blocked in the senate by the usual suspects LymphocyteLover Jun 2022 #37
+1,000 malaise Jun 2022 #55
OMG. LymphocyteLover Jun 2022 #35
+1, uponit7771 Jun 2022 #40
Yep. Obviously. nt Roisin Ni Fiachra Jun 2022 #3
K&R ck4829 Jun 2022 #4
It's pretty obvious what's going on. Emile Jun 2022 #5
The price of oil is set in global markets iemanja Jun 2022 #6
... obnoxiousdrunk Jun 2022 #8
Last quarter SEC filings showed Exxon with 6.23% profit margin. Apple had a 25.71% profit margin. kelly1mm Jun 2022 #9
Very Good Point ProfessorGAC Jun 2022 #18
25.71% of zero is still zero Farmer-Rick Jun 2022 #33
Thank God someone finally stood up for the oil companies. BannonsLiver Jun 2022 #34
+1 Hiawatha Pete Jun 2022 #89
Don't need an apple product, come on this should go without saying no? tia uponit7771 Jun 2022 #43
This message was self-deleted by its author MichMan Jun 2022 #47
Refinery capacity is down worldwide IronLionZion Jun 2022 #15
Here's an interesting thing though BumRushDaShow Jun 2022 #22
Yes and state taxes went up in most states bringing the average higher jimfields33 Jun 2022 #30
I heard on the radio earlier this morning BumRushDaShow Jun 2022 #38
This message was self-deleted by its author MichMan Jun 2022 #50
You continue to cite stuff without any links BumRushDaShow Jun 2022 #79
This message was self-deleted by its author MichMan Jun 2022 #82
Yes I read it but included the details in my links BumRushDaShow Jun 2022 #84
This message was self-deleted by its author MichMan Jun 2022 #86
The original tweet in the OP, which has generated much debate in this thread, is asserting - BumRushDaShow Jun 2022 #88
This message was self-deleted by its author MichMan Jun 2022 #94
Here is where the problem is BumRushDaShow Jun 2022 #96
This message was self-deleted by its author MichMan Jun 2022 #97
Nice non-sequitur BumRushDaShow Jun 2022 #98
This message was self-deleted by its author MichMan Jun 2022 #99
Please don't bring facts into this. jimfields33 Jun 2022 #28
You mean like the OP being about gas prices not oil prices?! tia uponit7771 Jun 2022 #42
live love laugh Jun 2022 #81
The OP was about gas prices not oil prices uponit7771 Jun 2022 #41
gas is made from oil. iemanja Jun 2022 #62
Agreed and oil can be set at one price while gas is set at another, gas is set historically higher uponit7771 Jun 2022 #66
Oil futures are part of the equation also. Russia and the Saudi's are #'s 2&3 in oil production. NoMoreRepugs Jun 2022 #54
It's not just the price of oil though. Resistance1 Jun 2022 #57
This message was self-deleted by its author MichMan Jun 2022 #61
Because the shares will be worth even more! Resistance1 Jun 2022 #91
This message was self-deleted by its author MichMan Jun 2022 #93
You're right scipan Jun 2022 #71
Time to nationalize the oil. Bluethroughu Jun 2022 #7
We should have done that back in 1859, when the first oil well started pumping crude out of the sop Jun 2022 #14
Better late than never. Bluethroughu Jun 2022 #16
Yes... WAY overdue!! InAbLuEsTaTe Jun 2022 #29
Time to replace oil. Midnight Writer Jun 2022 #36
I plan to buy an EV and not buy another drop of gas. I'm also Meadowoak Jun 2022 #45
Sweeeet!! Evolve Dammit Jun 2022 #48
You will love your EV. I've had a Volt for eight years and it's as much fun to drive OMGWTF Jun 2022 #59
This right here... If you live in that sweet commute length JCMach1 Jun 2022 #92
That sounds like an excellent plan. Bluethroughu Jun 2022 #105
What would happen to individuals IRAs and 401Ks if we nationalized oil. Dysfunctional Jun 2022 #104
Not just about profits! Big Oil aims to make Dems look bad. n/t TeamProg Jun 2022 #10
Been saying this for a while now... Wounded Bear Jun 2022 #11
Actually inthewind21 Jun 2022 #21
Exception, 19 SA citizens haven't ran into any skyscrapers under Biden no? tia uponit7771 Jun 2022 #44
Doubtful Deminpenn Jun 2022 #12
Yeah it's a lot more of that EX500rider Jun 2022 #58
and they're using 1500 radio stations to blame everything on biden, as usual, and certainot Jun 2022 #13
It is becoming crystal clear DENVERPOPS Jun 2022 #19
democracy was designed to regulate corporations, the problem is we let certainot Jun 2022 #68
Don't forget the USSC DENVERPOPS Jun 2022 #75
yeah, citizens united was a prototypical rw radio operation certainot Jun 2022 #77
Have you noticed DENVERPOPS Jun 2022 #100
yes and after it's been repeated millions of times on 1500 radio stations......... certainot Jun 2022 #106
During the run up DENVERPOPS Jun 2022 #107
i really think it would help to investigate its use by putin, going back at least to 2008 when certainot Jun 2022 #109
Oil company largest assets are the $trillions still in the ground. mn9driver Jun 2022 #17
Of course they're on board with the fascist agenda. Fuck the planet. onecaliberal Jun 2022 #20
That's Rebl2 Jun 2022 #23
Yes, Snackshack Jun 2022 #25
Without a doubt!! InAbLuEsTaTe Jun 2022 #27
commonly called "a racket", and why "capitalism" is so easily co-opted bringthePaine Jun 2022 #31
Dems need to call this shit out. Joinfortmill Jun 2022 #32
"Does the word "duh" mean anything to you?" momta Jun 2022 #39
In Other News, Lil Liberal Laura Jun 2022 #46
Check out Rachel Maddow's book "Blowout" (oil and gas industry) Evolve Dammit Jun 2022 #49
Everyone's entitled to an opinion... brooklynite Jun 2022 #51
I've thought the same thing for the past 4 months. ArnoldLayne Jun 2022 #52
It would be nice to hear this so succinctly stated... dchill Jun 2022 #53
and they're counting on the American people being too stupid to know that. New Breed Leader Jun 2022 #56
Tradition! Kid Berwyn Jun 2022 #60
Thanks for link burrowowl Jun 2022 #90
It's gross and cynical AF, but it's working budkin Jun 2022 #63
Soulless Monsters.. don't care about Cha Jun 2022 #64
A resounding, "duh". jaxexpat Jun 2022 #65
K & R & Retweeted! SunSeeker Jun 2022 #67
A somewhat silly meme that refuses to die EX500rider Jun 2022 #69
In NY they dropped state and some counties taxes LetsGetSmartAboutIt Jun 2022 #70
I've been saying this for MONTHS. Funny the price at Quik Trip where I live hasn't dropped a cent... Bengus81 Jun 2022 #72
My next car will be a plug-in hybrid... AntiFascist Jun 2022 #73
It seems like shanti Jun 2022 #108
Aw hell no, can't be!! Baked Potato Jun 2022 #74
Of course they are. But, too many people are too clueless to even suspect that. Dark n Stormy Knight Jun 2022 #76
I would not be surprised. nt cstanleytech Jun 2022 #78
ABSOLUTELY ‼️💯 live love laugh Jun 2022 #80
I had that thought last night. zanana1 Jun 2022 #83
Won't Work, because Trump is the world's worst enemy now. Republicans don't have a chance in Nov. Stuart G Jun 2022 #85
How much Cherokee100 Jun 2022 #87
The real elephant in our room is that this applies to most goods and services.... KY_EnviroGuy Jun 2022 #95
It's not just gasoline and diesel DENVERPOPS Jun 2022 #101
Of course they are. roamer65 Jun 2022 #102
Say it loudly and often. But many Trumpers won/t care. Samrob Jun 2022 #103

Response to StrictlyRockers (Original post)

malaise

(268,670 posts)
2. Jamaica 1979/80
Tue Jun 21, 2022, 11:12 AM
Jun 2022

Last edited Tue Jun 21, 2022, 01:43 PM - Edit history (1)

Gas price and food price riots brought to you by ....
Rinse and repeat - that is all

Dustlawyer

(10,494 posts)
26. Yes! When are we going to make campaign finance a REAL ISSUE?
Tue Jun 21, 2022, 12:16 PM
Jun 2022

This is the cause of most of our problems. It is why we cannot pass gun control, climate change, immigration…

The other root cause is propaganda. We need to fight these two root causes head on and force the issue. The media will fight along side Republicans to stop both because they are the beneficiaries of the campaign money and because their big advertisers leverage them to do it.

iemanja

(53,012 posts)
6. The price of oil is set in global markets
Tue Jun 21, 2022, 11:22 AM
Jun 2022

and companies charge that price. Obviously when prices are higher, so are their profits.

kelly1mm

(4,732 posts)
9. Last quarter SEC filings showed Exxon with 6.23% profit margin. Apple had a 25.71% profit margin.
Tue Jun 21, 2022, 11:28 AM
Jun 2022

Tell me again who has 'excessive profits' on the backs of the American consumer?

ProfessorGAC

(64,827 posts)
18. Very Good Point
Tue Jun 21, 2022, 11:47 AM
Jun 2022

While very unpopular here, Walmart had $570 billion in revenues and $13.5 billion in net income. Roughly 2.4%.
This notion that the refiners have direct control of the wholesale price of gas is silly, but persistent.
We will never figure out what's causing this unprecedented disconnect between gas and crude pricing if we keep looking in the wrong places.

Farmer-Rick

(10,134 posts)
33. 25.71% of zero is still zero
Tue Jun 21, 2022, 12:37 PM
Jun 2022

Just kidding.

But apple is smaller than the oil corporations. But don't worry, here's another example of them profiteering:

"ExxonMobil reported a net profit of $5.5 billion, more than doubling its earnings from the year-ago period. Shell notched its strongest quarterly profit ever, and Chevron posted its best earnings quarter in nearly a decade."

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.businessinsider.com/gas-prices-oil-company-profits-skyrocketing-energy-sector-earnings-charts-2022-5%3famp

According to the link ExxonMobil's profits alone went up 100%.

Response to kelly1mm (Reply #9)

IronLionZion

(45,380 posts)
15. Refinery capacity is down worldwide
Tue Jun 21, 2022, 11:44 AM
Jun 2022

they shut down refineries for many reasons and don't want to invest a lot of money to get them back up and running.

jimfields33

(15,669 posts)
30. Yes and state taxes went up in most states bringing the average higher
Tue Jun 21, 2022, 12:20 PM
Jun 2022

Indiana goes to 61 cents a gallon state tax on July 1st. That will bring the average price up across the country especially if other states have tax hikes in July which is a typical month for tax hikes.

BumRushDaShow

(128,388 posts)
38. I heard on the radio earlier this morning
Tue Jun 21, 2022, 12:46 PM
Jun 2022

(which had been floated before) about having a federal gas tax holiday and I expect that will happen at some point (which is ~18 cents/gal) if there's little or no movement.

Here in PA, we have been paying at least 58 cents/gal state tax since 2017 - https://www.revenue.pa.gov/Tax%20Rates/Pages/MFT%20Rates.aspx

There has been talk here as well about lowering that and/or a having a state "tax holiday".

My view is that there was a HUGE "Infrastructure" bill that was passed that included money for "roads and bridges" and one of the original points of the gasoline tax was to "fund roads and bridges". So until that federal money is expended, why not use up those federal funds for the time being?

Regardless, the oil companies are still gouging in cahoots with the speculators trying to make up for the Saudi/Russia price war that sent oil to almost -$40/bbl during the early part of the pandemic.

I post this often -

Response to BumRushDaShow (Reply #38)

BumRushDaShow

(128,388 posts)
79. You continue to cite stuff without any links
Wed Jun 22, 2022, 07:31 AM
Jun 2022

It's breathtaking. I don't know how you are doing your raw "profit" calculations but that's not how it is determined.

The oil companies make money from their crude sales, not the finished product as gasoline.

They "win" when the global prices are up and "lose" (like they did in April 2020) when the global prices crash.

February 1, 20221:47 PM EST Last Updated 5 months ago

Exxon posts biggest profit in seven years on high oil prices

HOUSTON, Feb 1 (Reuters) - Exxon Mobil Corp (XOM.N) on Tuesday reported a fourth-quarter profit of $8.87 billion, its largest in seven years, as the top U.S. oil producer benefited from strong energy prices.

The company slashed spending after fuel demand cratered two years ago. Since then, earnings have topped pre-pandemic levels, helped by the rise in oil prices, with the global oil benchmark Brentalso at a seven-year high.

On Monday, Exxon disclosed a business shakeup to accelerate a $6-billion cut to operating expenses set in motion last year. The revamping will "position us to lead in cash flow and earnings growth, operating performance, and the energy transition,” Chief Executive Darren Woods said in a statement.

A continuation of high oil prices would "cause us to increase the pace of the share repurchase program," Chief Financial Officer Kathryn Mikells said. Exxon restarted buybacks last month after a long suspension, with pledge to buy $10 billion by the end of 2023.

(snip)

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/exxon-post-best-results-seven-years-oil-prices-2022-02-01//


And they took those handy dandy subsidies that we provide them and used them to back fill so they could do stock buy-backs. This is why the House Energy & Commerce Committee held a hearing hauling the big wigs in to discuss it back this past April that you didn't watch - https://www.democraticunderground.com/1017727081



The good times are rolling for Big Oil. 3 things to know about their surging profits

May 7, 20225:01 AM ET

The surge in profits comes despite the writedowns tied to Russia, and they speak to how good the quarter was for Big Oil, according to analysts.

"The bottom line is that the industry is generating the highest free cash flow certainly in the 25 years that I've looked at this business," says Doug Leggate, who runs the oil and gas equity research team for Bank of America, referring to a key metric for companies.

(snip)

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/exxon-post-best-results-seven-years-oil-prices-2022-02-01/


Since ExxonMobil had reported an approximate "break even" price point ~$41/bbl, then you do the math for percent "profits" when WTI is sitting at $121/bbl.

They were able to handle the crash in April 2020 better than the start up frackers due to those newer entities requiring ~mid-$50s//bbl to "break even". Thus with prices down to near -$40/bbl at that time, several went out of business and others had to halt operations due to the glut that Saudi and Russia had created in their oil production/price war.

Response to BumRushDaShow (Reply #79)

BumRushDaShow

(128,388 posts)
84. Yes I read it but included the details in my links
Wed Jun 22, 2022, 08:30 AM
Jun 2022

that again show that "gasoline profits" are NOT the same as "oil profits". The wholesalers and retailer realize those profits/losses, NOT the oil companies. And there is nothing at that link that says anything about ExxonMobil only having "6% profit", let alone some calculation looking at the price per gallon and then trying to compare that to the gasoline taxes.

That link does say this -

Exxon's revenue also missed expectations but was up 53.0% year over year (YOY) as it rebounded off of last year's pandemic-depressed levels.

Response to BumRushDaShow (Reply #84)

BumRushDaShow

(128,388 posts)
88. The original tweet in the OP, which has generated much debate in this thread, is asserting -
Wed Jun 22, 2022, 10:18 AM
Jun 2022
Oil companies are keeping gas prices inflated to help Republicans get elected in exchange for maintaining ongoing tax breaks.


And what is being described in this thread conflates what are "gasoline" prices vs "oil prices", which is mixing two different price points. That is going to lead to skewed results because what the "consumer" deals with is what their local retailer is selling the gasoline for, not what the oil companies are charging.

The revenues, including that "$90 billion" that you are citing is the gross revenue for one quarter, NOT yearly. The quarters are going to vary through the year but their total revenue for the year of 2021 was $286 billion and that was double the revenue from 2020 when they were caught having to PAY people to store the excess oil.

ExxonMobil's profits and revenue soar on high oil prices

By Chris Isidore, CNN Business

Updated 9:26 AM ET, Tue February 1, 2022

(snip)

Prices for oil, natural gas and petrochemicals all soared in 2021, allowing ExxonMobil to report revenue of $285.6 billion, up from $181.5 billion in 2020. Revenue in the fourth quarter of $85 billion was up 83% from a year earlier and up 15% from the third quarter of 2021.

(snip)

https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/01/business/exxonmobil-earnings/index.html


So when you cherry-pick "$4.5 billion", keep in mind that in all of 2021 (their "recovery" year), they had $23 billion in yearly "net revenue", which averages what? Almost $6 billion per quarter. And they even indicated this for 2021 -

Generates $48 billion of cash flow from operating activities, the highest level since 2012, more than covering capital investments, debt reduction, and dividend


Right now, it's guaranteed (and this has happened way back in the past) if one gas station owner (franchise or indie) decides to sell their gas at 99 cents/gal, and they experience long lines of people buying it for that price, it will have no impact whatsoever on the oil company profits or losses because the oil contracts were determined on the futures markets some time ago.

And that goes back to the "tax holiday", which is causing all sorts of heartburn for some reason and the Biden Administration posted a Fact Sheet this morning about it - https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2022/06/22/fact-sheet-president-biden-calls-for-a-three-month-federal-gas-tax-holiday/

FACT SHEET: President Biden Calls for a Three-Month Federal Gas Tax Holiday

June 22, 2022 • Statements and Releases

The price of gas is up dramatically around the world, and by almost $2 per gallon in America, since Putin began amassing troops on the border of Ukraine. President Biden understands that high gas prices pose a significant challenge for working families. That’s why he has taken action in recent months to boost the supply of oil and gas, including an historic release from the Strategic Petroleum Reserve, and encouraging oil companies and refiners to boost capacity and output to get more supply on the market.

Today, he is calling on Congress and states to take additional legislative action to provide direct relief to American consumers who have been hit with Putin’s Price Hike. Specifically, he is calling on Congress to suspend the federal gas tax for three months, through September, without taking any money away from the Highway Trust Fund. And he is calling on states to take similar action to provide some direct relief, whether suspending their own gas taxes or helping consumers in other ways.

Federal Gas Tax Holiday

Right now, the federal government charges an 18 cent tax per gallon of gasoline and a 24 cent tax per gallon of diesel. Those taxes fund critical highways and public transportation, through the Highway Trust Fund. But in this unique moment, with gas prices near $5 a gallon on average across the country, President Biden is calling on Congress to suspend the gas tax for three months – until the end of September – to give Americans a little extra breathing room as they deal with the effects of Putin’s war in Ukraine.

The President is also calling on Congress to make sure that a gas tax holiday has no negative effect on the Highway Trust Fund. With our deficit already down by a historic $1.6 trillion this year, the President believes that we can afford to suspend the gas tax to help consumers while using other revenues to make the Highway Trust Fund whole for the roughly $10 billion cost. This is consistent with legislation proposed in the Senate and the House to advance a responsible gas tax holiday.

President Biden understands that a gas tax holiday alone will not, on its own, relieve the run up in costs that we’ve seen. But the President believes that at this unique moment when the war in Ukraine is imposing costs on American families, Congress should do what it can to provide working families breathing room.

State and Local Action

In addition to federal gas tax relief, the President is calling on state and local governments to provide additional consumer relief. Already, some states and local governments have acted: for example, in Connecticut and New York, governors temporarily suspended their gas taxes, and in Illinois and Colorado, governors delayed planned tax and fee increases. And, around the country, in states like Michigan and Minnesota, states and local leaders are considering a number of forms of consumer relief – from temporary suspensions and pauses on state sales tax on gas to consumer rebates and relief payments. The President believes more states and local governments should do so.

Ongoing Actions to Blunt the Impact of the Putin Price Hike

Today’s announcements follow a series of actions the President has taken to lower gas prices for American families.

  • The President announced the release of a record 1 million barrels per day from our Strategic Petroleum Reserve, which just last week a leading oil market analyst confirmed has been critical to keeping prices from rising even more.

  • He rallied international partners to join us, releasing a combined 240 million barrels of oil on the market.

  • He expanded access to biofuels like E15—gasoline that uses a 15 percent ethanol blend—to increase supply and lower prices at thousands of gas stations across the country.

  • He and his Administration are engaging with oil and refining companies to ask them to work with the Administration to bring forward concrete solutions that increase refinery capacity and output. Secretary Granholm is meeting with these CEOs this week.



  • Already, the United States produced more oil under the first year of this Administration than it did under the first two years of the prior Administration, and is on track to set new records next year. At the same time, the President understands that our efforts to increase energy production in the near-term must be coupled with medium- and long-term efforts to transition our economy away from fossil fuels produced by autocrats and to clean energy.

    ###


    The above attempt is to cajole the retailer, who has to pay those excise taxes to the states/federal government (and that is what is passed onto the consumer) to drop the "price at the pump", with the assumption that they will still need some "profit" themselves to operate but that shouldn't have to be from pocketing the taxes that they wouldn't have to pay, at least for that short amount of time.

    Response to BumRushDaShow (Reply #88)

    BumRushDaShow

    (128,388 posts)
    96. Here is where the problem is
    Wed Jun 22, 2022, 01:16 PM
    Jun 2022
    Their profit margin as a percentage of sales are still in the 6-8 % range based on the 2021 data you cited.


    Except you made this remarkable leap -

    Upstream Segment Net Income was $4.5 billion
    Revenue was $90.5 billion

    Profit in % is therefore 4.5 billion/90.5 billion (x 100) = 5 % (Upstream operations profit )

    If the average price of gasoline is $5 per gallon, a 5% net profit on crude oil would equate to 25 cents per gallon.

    This is actually overstated since the retail price of a gallon includes other profits from refining, distribution and retail pus state and federal taxes. It should actually be based on the wholesale price of a gallon, so they are actually earning less than 25 cents a gallon from the crude oil portion of the business


    You do know that a barrel of crude, which is what those "oil" prices are based on, is for the standard barrel of 42 gallons. And that 42 gallons is not "gasoline". The gasoline is refined from that at at a rate of about 20 gal/bbl crude.

    So right there, you did a calculation fail, including conflating "upstream" with "downstream".

    The question would be, after ExxonMobil sold their crude to some buyer - whether an investor/speculator or an actual 3rd party refiner (or they refined it themselves and spent some amount of money to do it) - then what was the price of that refined product to the wholesalers/distributors? And then how much did those wholesalers/distributors charge the individual retail stations?

    The state of California really did a nice job defining all the complexities of this here - https://www.energy.ca.gov/data-reports/energy-almanac/transportation-energy/estimated-gasoline-price-breakdown-and-margins

    Gasoline Price Breakdown

    This page details the estimated gross margins for both refiners and distributors. The term "margin" includes both costs and profits. The margin data is based on the statewide average retail and wholesale price of gasoline for a single day of the week. It is not a seven-day average. The margin provided here is an indicator for the California market as a whole and not for any particular refiner or retailer of gasoline.

    The Energy Commission cannot estimate profit margins based on average retail prices and observed wholesale market prices. This is because detailed data on refining and distribution costs, costs paid by approximately 10,000 retail locations, hundreds of wholesale marketers, jobbers, and distributors is not available.

    Refiner Margin

    Refiner Margin (costs and profits) is calculated by subtracting the market price for crude oil from the wholesale price of gasoline. The result is a gross refining margin which includes the cost of operating the refinery as well as the profits for the refining company.

    The price of crude oil is based on the daily market price for crude oil from the Alaska North Slope published in the Wall Street Journal©. The market price of crude oil also includes its own share of costs and profits. In the case of a vertically integrated oil company, the same company that owns and operates the oil field also owns and operates the refinery. Several vertically integrated oil companies operate in California including BP, Chevron, ExxonMobil, and Shell. For simplicity, the refining margins shown are based on producing one barrel of gasoline from one barrel of crude oil. No adjustments are made for other refined products.


    In fact, they had a nice little table to show the breakdown -

    Estimated Gasoline Price Breakdown and Margins

    June 13, 2022

    Branded | Unbranded

    Distribution Costs, Marketing Costs and Profits | $0.56 | $0.56
    Crude Oil Costs | $3.00 | $3.00
    Refinery Cost and Profit | $1.85 | $1.85
    State Underground Storage Tank Fee | $0.02 | $0.02
    State and Local Tax | $0.14 | $0.14
    State Excise Tax | $0.511 | $0.511
    Federal Excise Tax| $0.184 | $0.184
    Retail Prices| $6.27 | $6.27


    So no you can't make a direct comparison of "profits" from "oil" and then try to back-of-envelope calculate what that comes out to based on the price per gallon of gasoline.

    You may very well consider corporate profits of 8% a windfall, and any corporation making that much needs to be assessed a separate windfall tax. However, that would likely mean that a very high percentage of businesses would be hit with the windfall tax as 8% isn't that high of a threshold. I sure hope that my retirement accounts earns close to that % or I am losing ground to inflation.


    The taxing of corporations is under the purview of Congress, but in this case, you are now broad-brushing different industries for such a tax without any type of analysis of how much that industry has an impact on the average consumer.

    There was an article (and I think it was even linked to in this thread) that compares the oil company profits to Apple's profits, which was ridiculous, and is itself is a deflection from the fact that a corp. like Apple and its products, would be a discretionary purchase vs an energy company, would be a near-compulsory purchase (whether actively for heat/cooking/transportation or passively, through electricity from non-nuclear/solar/hydro sources) for an average consumer.

    By the way, I didnt cherry pick anything. I used the most recent data from the last quarter.


    Yeah, the "most recent data" has nothing to do with the price of gasoline.

    As far as the OP referring to gasoline and not oil, you were the one that questioned my data because you said it was crude oil profits that needed to be looked at, and not gasoline.


    Yes that is exactly what needs to be looked at.

    I provided the link to the crude oil portion of Exxon which was consistent and the data you provided was similar as well.


    But then you fell down the rabbit hole of conflating gallons of gasoline and that price with barrels of oil and that price, and attempting to assign the "profit" across what are 2 different products.

    It's just like me buying a silo of wheat at some cost and then trying to assign the profit to the grower because the processors (the flour company and then the bread company) are charging an exorbitant amount for a loaf of bread.

    And in the case of the wheat grower and the oil producer - both products are "commodities" that get subsidized, but one manages to generate huge profits at the supplier side where the other often doesn't thanks to the "middle" industries.

    And in the case of some of the oil companies you DO have the business jargon of "vertically-integrated" meaning they pump, refine, and even retail product, whereas in other industries (like grain), you don't generally have that as they stay in their own lanes (although it does happen for some of the boutique companies where they grow, process, and then create a finished product for sale and thus keep all the profits "in-house" ).

    Response to BumRushDaShow (Reply #96)

    Response to BumRushDaShow (Reply #98)

    uponit7771

    (90,301 posts)
    66. Agreed and oil can be set at one price while gas is set at another, gas is set historically higher
    Tue Jun 21, 2022, 03:38 PM
    Jun 2022

    ... than oil prices that's a fact not in dispute

    NoMoreRepugs

    (9,366 posts)
    54. Oil futures are part of the equation also. Russia and the Saudi's are #'s 2&3 in oil production.
    Tue Jun 21, 2022, 01:43 PM
    Jun 2022

    Any chance they are heavily involved in influencing the futures market as they may not have our best interests in mind??

    Resistance1

    (103 posts)
    57. It's not just the price of oil though.
    Tue Jun 21, 2022, 01:53 PM
    Jun 2022

    If the oil companies limit or curtail their refining capacity of gasoline (supply), it will keep the price at the pump high and inflate their stock prices so they can buy them back. Pure capitalism

    Response to Resistance1 (Reply #57)

    Resistance1

    (103 posts)
    91. Because the shares will be worth even more!
    Wed Jun 22, 2022, 11:17 AM
    Jun 2022

    You are spreading the value of the company (numerator) over a smaller number of outstanding shares (denominator) so the value of each share goes up and the company is more attractive to investors

    Response to Resistance1 (Reply #91)

    scipan

    (2,336 posts)
    71. You're right
    Tue Jun 21, 2022, 05:26 PM
    Jun 2022

    FCF= free cash flow

    Oil & gas firms’ profits set to smash records reaching $834 billion in 2022, Rystad says
    BUSINESS & FINANCE
    May 9, 2022, by Melisa Cavcic

    ..snip..

    Based on Rystad’s research, the main contributing factor to these glowing financials is sustained high oil and gas prices. The energy intelligence group predicts that total FCF for public upstream companies will reach $834 billion this year thanks to average Brent oil prices estimated at $111 per barrel in 2022, a Henry Hub gas price at $4.2 per thousand cubic feet (Mcf) and a European gas price of $25 per Mcf.

    However, the research shows that record high FCF is not the only thing on the table for public upstream operators as cash from operations is also expected to rocket this year, breaking the $1 trillion threshold for the first time. The $1.1 trillion projected annual total is a 56 per cent jump from 2021 levels of $719 billion, which was the highest yearly total since 2014.

    Rystad explains that cash from operations is typically used to fund new investments and financial costs, such as debt payments and dividends. In 2020, cash from operations dropped by almost $200 billion, or around 35 per cent, implying that companies had less money to finance new activity and issue payouts to their owners. As a result, investments also dropped in 2020, falling by almost $100 billion or around 30 per cent.

    As elaborated by Rystad, despite the robust growth in cash from operations, investments are not expected to grow significantly this year, inching up to $286 billion from $258 billion in 2021. The investment ratio shows the disparity between record cash flow and profits, and the portion of those windfalls that are reinvested, as this ratio has fluctuated during the past decade, averaging around 72 per cent. However, the projected investment ratio this year is expected to plunge to 26 per cent, the lowest since the early 1980s.

    Furthermore, the meager investment ratio and soaring FCF indicate that public E&P companies will have significant cash available to pay down debt or fork out dividends to shareholders, Rystad forecasts. As much of last year’s profit was spent on reducing debt, this has left upstream operators in a very healthy financial position and the upshot of this is that a significant portion of the vast profits anticipated this year will likely be paid out to shareholders.

    https://www.offshore-energy.biz/oil-gas-firms-profits-set-to-smash-records-reaching-834-billion-in-2022-rystad-says/

    sop

    (10,091 posts)
    14. We should have done that back in 1859, when the first oil well started pumping crude out of the
    Tue Jun 21, 2022, 11:43 AM
    Jun 2022

    ground in Pennsylvania.

    Meadowoak

    (5,534 posts)
    45. I plan to buy an EV and not buy another drop of gas. I'm also
    Tue Jun 21, 2022, 01:27 PM
    Jun 2022

    Installing solar panels on my garage roof to charge the EV for free, how do you like that EXXON?

    OMGWTF

    (3,939 posts)
    59. You will love your EV. I've had a Volt for eight years and it's as much fun to drive
    Tue Jun 21, 2022, 02:05 PM
    Jun 2022

    as the Porsche I drove for 12 years.

    JCMach1

    (27,553 posts)
    92. This right here... If you live in that sweet commute length
    Wed Jun 22, 2022, 11:21 AM
    Jun 2022

    A PHEV gives you everything EV without any range anxiety or hassle

     

    Dysfunctional

    (452 posts)
    104. What would happen to individuals IRAs and 401Ks if we nationalized oil.
    Sat Jun 25, 2022, 08:20 PM
    Jun 2022

    Individuals, other than corporate management, and mutual funds own 97% or more of oil companies.

    Wounded Bear

    (58,584 posts)
    11. Been saying this for a while now...
    Tue Jun 21, 2022, 11:40 AM
    Jun 2022

    Look at all the oil price spikes over the last 20 years or so. Seems to always happen when Dems are in charge.

    I'm sure it's just a coincidence.

    Deminpenn

    (15,265 posts)
    12. Doubtful
    Tue Jun 21, 2022, 11:41 AM
    Jun 2022

    Much more likely they are trying to recoup what they lost during the height of the pandemic when gas was retailing for less than $2/gal.

    EX500rider

    (10,798 posts)
    58. Yeah it's a lot more of that
    Tue Jun 21, 2022, 01:57 PM
    Jun 2022

    Yeah it's a lot more of that nobody wants to look back a year earlier when the same company's lost 20 billion in a year

     

    certainot

    (9,090 posts)
    13. and they're using 1500 radio stations to blame everything on biden, as usual, and
    Tue Jun 21, 2022, 11:42 AM
    Jun 2022

    as usual, media and political analysts have no clue that 'popular opinion' blaming biden, dems, flies in large part out of the blowholes of a few hundred assholes hiding behind call screeners

    and endorsed by hundreds of schools (like these 87 universities) and dozens of sports teams until americans wake up

    DENVERPOPS

    (8,787 posts)
    19. It is becoming crystal clear
    Tue Jun 21, 2022, 11:49 AM
    Jun 2022

    that we are no longer the United States of America,

    But the Fascist Corporations of America............

     

    certainot

    (9,090 posts)
    68. democracy was designed to regulate corporations, the problem is we let
    Tue Jun 21, 2022, 03:50 PM
    Jun 2022

    those corporations get a free speech free ride on 1500 radio stations licensed to operate in the public interest to create made-to-order constituencies to enable and intimidate these fucking republicans and dems like manchin and sinema.

    when democrats stop ignoring rw radio and stop letting 100s of schools and dozens of pro teams support that unchallenged propaganda monopoly those advertisers will head for the hills and the only unique advantage the corporations have will fall apart.

    corporate power can be regulated - i'm wouldn't give up while rw radio is still getting a free speech free ride

    DENVERPOPS

    (8,787 posts)
    100. Have you noticed
    Sat Jun 25, 2022, 08:05 PM
    Jun 2022

    how they always name it something benign that doesn't faintly resemble what the bill or act is truly about????????
    It isn't by accident they called it "Citizens United".................

    Maybe the title should have been: Overwhelming Corporate Interference in U.S. Democracy..........

    DENVERPOPS

    (8,787 posts)
    107. During the run up
    Sun Jun 26, 2022, 02:55 AM
    Jun 2022

    to the Iraq war and afterwards, a friend who knew someone who worked at one of those 1500 RW (Sinclair?) Radio Stations showed me a "do not play list" of songs that they were not allowed to play under any circumstances. Most were all the anti war songs from the 60's and early 70's!

    I visited a guy I know on his ranch in Wyoming and he listened to Rush at 9:00 am in his tractor, after lunch at 3 in the afternoon, and then at 7 that night, then of course Fox News the rest of the time once he finished for the day. Unbelievable........

    There are so many stories out there about this RW crowd of Trump and "W" followers............

    Two psychiatrist friends of mine who I asked if these people were brainwashed or what, both replied that if for 5-10 years a person listened to only RW radio and watched only Fox news they would effectively be "brainwashed". They also said that it wasn't by accident that this happened, it was strategically planned and executed by some people somewhere who were familiar with what they called "Psy-ops....The choice of words, repetition of words and phrases, etc etc were all done on purpose because they knew those things would work for the maximum benefit.......

     

    certainot

    (9,090 posts)
    109. i really think it would help to investigate its use by putin, going back at least to 2008 when
    Sun Jun 26, 2022, 09:13 AM
    Jun 2022

    manafort /davis, already doing work for russians, pushed palin under mccain's nose.

    limbaugh would not support mccain - a disaster on the eve of the GOP convention - until the just before the start of the friday limbaugh show. then limbaugh used the choice to say he could finally support mccain.

    then there's "climategate" in 2009, started from a russian hack, which limbaugh used to derail obama at copenhagen and so saving russian oligarchs and putin many billions in lost fossil revenue. and there are other cases, such as trump himself.

    here's from fakenewsradio.org quoting the army PSYOPS manual re radio:

    THE US ARMY WOULD CALL IT PSYOPS

    Here is what the US Army Psyops Manual says about using radio for propaganda (Psychological Operations Tactics, Techniques, and Procedures 12/2003 – available online):
    Repetition is necessary for oral learning: therefore, key themes, phrases, or slogans should be repeated to ensure the TA (target audience) gets the desired message.
    (Talk radio is much better than TV, print, and internet for doing just that.)
    According to the PSYOPS manual, advantages of radio include:
    Emotional Power: A skilled radio announcer can exert tremendous influence on the listener simply with pitch, resonance, inflection, or timing. and The emotional tone conveyed by the voice may influence the listener more than the logic of arguments
    (Or, as one famous host would call it, “talent on loan from god”.)
    Wide coverage: Radio programs can reach members of large and varied audiences simultaneously. and Since radio can reach mass TAs quickly, radio is useful for all types of PSYOPs.
    Speed: Radio programs can be quickly prepared for broadcast. Speed is important when attempting to capitalize on targets of opportunity.
    (Perfect for spinning and distorting breaking news.)
    Ease of perception: Radio requires little or no effort to visualize the radio message. Illiteracy does not prevent the listener from forming his individual image as he listens.

    mn9driver

    (4,417 posts)
    17. Oil company largest assets are the $trillions still in the ground.
    Tue Jun 21, 2022, 11:46 AM
    Jun 2022

    With democrats in power, some of that may never be drilled, sold and burned. The oil companies are ensuring a future hell so that they can profit more now.

    They will do everything they can to elect GOPers.

    Snackshack

    (2,541 posts)
    25. Yes,
    Tue Jun 21, 2022, 12:14 PM
    Jun 2022

    They are. The Oil Co’s are using their product to influence the upcoming elections in the GOPs favor. There is no valid reason for gas to be $5.59 a gallon where I am. Congress should come down very very hard on this.

    I have been told all my life that “Capitalism” is the best system in the 🗺…that may be true but still there is a lot of room for improvement. Over the last few decades Capitalism has not been very kind to the world.

    brooklynite

    (94,303 posts)
    51. Everyone's entitled to an opinion...
    Tue Jun 21, 2022, 01:40 PM
    Jun 2022

    Evidence would be nice.

    FWIW - This conspiracy theory requires EVERY SINGLE petroleum company to be part of the same conspiracy because ANY one company could make a short-term killing by under-pricing the others.

    New Breed Leader

    (622 posts)
    56. and they're counting on the American people being too stupid to know that.
    Tue Jun 21, 2022, 01:49 PM
    Jun 2022

    So far, the American people haven't disappointed.

    Kid Berwyn

    (14,789 posts)
    60. Tradition!
    Tue Jun 21, 2022, 02:06 PM
    Jun 2022
    How a Deep State Plot Sank Jimmy Carter

    PETER DALE SCOTT
    WhoWhatWhy.Org, 11/02/14

    The Safari Club was an alliance between national intelligence agencies that wished to compensate for the CIA’s retrenchment in the wake of President Carter’s election and Senator Church’s post-Watergate reforms. As former Saudi intelligence chief Prince Turki bin Faisal once told Georgetown University alumni,

    In 1976, after the Watergate matters took place here, your intelligence community was literally tied up by Congress. It could not do anything. It could not send spies, it could not write reports, and it could not pay money. In order to compensate for that, a group of countries got together in the hope of fighting Communism and established what was called the Safari Club. The Safari Club included France, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Morocco, and Iran. (1)


    After Carter was elected, the Safari Club allied itself with Richard Helms and Theodore Shackley against the more restrained intelligence policies of Jimmy Carter, according to Joseph Trento. In Trento’s account, the dismissal by William Colby in 1974 of CIA counterintelligence chief James Angleton,

    combined with Watergate, is what prompted the Safari Club to start working with [former DCI Richard] Helms [then U.S. Ambassador to Iran] and his most trusted operatives outside of Congressional and even Agency purview. James Angleton said before his death that “Shackley and Helms … began working with outsiders like Adham and Saudi Arabia. The traditional CIA answering to the president was an empty vessel having little more than technical capability.”(2)


    Trento adds that “The Safari Club needed a network of banks to finance its intelligence operations. With the official blessing of George Bush as the head of the CIA, Adham transformed . . . the Bank of Credit and Commerce International (BCCI), into a worldwide money-laundering machine.”(3) Trento claims also that the Safari Club then was able to work with some of the controversial CIA operators who had been forced out of the CIA by Turner, and that this was coordinated by Theodore Shackley:

    Shackley, who still had ambitions to become DCI, believed that without his many sources and operatives like [Edwin] Wilson, the Safari Club—operating with [former DCI Richard] Helms in charge in Tehran—would be ineffective. . . . Unless Shackley took direct action to complete the privatization of intelligence operations soon, the Safari Club would not have a conduit to [CIA] resources. The solution: create a totally private intelligence network using CIA assets until President Carter could be replaced. (4)


    Continues…

    https://whowhatwhy.org/politics/government-integrity/the-deep-state-plots-the-1980-defeat-of-jimmy-carter/

    Saudi Roils, Petroligarchs and their toadies in greed absolutely loathe democracy.

    Cha

    (296,780 posts)
    64. Soulless Monsters.. don't care about
    Tue Jun 21, 2022, 03:10 PM
    Jun 2022

    Democracy or the Planet only their Me Me Me Me Fucking Tax Cuts.

    💙💛

    EX500rider

    (10,798 posts)
    69. A somewhat silly meme that refuses to die
    Tue Jun 21, 2022, 04:00 PM
    Jun 2022

    So 100% of the board of directors on all oil companies are Republicans? And 100% of their assistants, secretaries, stenographers etc present at board meetings are also Republicans?

    The large oil company profits are due to an entirely different reason, in the old days profit margins were done by hand you would add 5 cents to every gallon let's say and that's what it was. Now it's all computerized and done by a percentage, say 10% markup.
    So if gas is a dollar wholesale that sells for $1.10 they made 10 cents a gallon, 10% markup. Gas is say $5 wholesale a gallon they now add $0.50 a gallon to make it 5.50 a gallon still 10% markup but their profit has gone up considerably.

    70. In NY they dropped state and some counties taxes
    Tue Jun 21, 2022, 04:15 PM
    Jun 2022

    The state dropped gas tax above 2$ a gallon and there was a change to sales taxes in some counties ( Saratoga and Schenectady) the relative prices dropped for a week then somehow went up to par with surrounding counties....

    And all gas retailers said thank you for the extra profits !

    There is talk about doing this with federal gas tax, how can we make sure this doesn't happen there if that goes through ?

    They need the windfall profit tax when a profit is made on a worldwide traded commodity at a greater percentage to the end customer than the underlying commodity price.

    It'll never happen, but they should do it.

    Bengus81

    (6,927 posts)
    72. I've been saying this for MONTHS. Funny the price at Quik Trip where I live hasn't dropped a cent...
    Tue Jun 21, 2022, 05:39 PM
    Jun 2022

    Yet a barrel of oil has dropped 12.00 since June 8th. Oh I know....when it gets cheaper it takes a longggggg time to drop at the pump. Yet if it would go up 10.00 per barrel tomorrow the price would skyrocket the next day.

    These FUCKING Corporations are doing the same thing the Oil Companies are doing,keeping prices as high as possible and jacking prices almost daily. Get Republicans elected in the mid terms and prices on ALL this crap will drop like a rock.

    They will gladly give up some profit when they know the tax raise on Corporations that most Americans want will never see the light of day for YEARS if ever.

    AntiFascist

    (12,792 posts)
    73. My next car will be a plug-in hybrid...
    Tue Jun 21, 2022, 07:39 PM
    Jun 2022

    good luck oil industry because we won't be needing your oil for long.

    shanti

    (21,675 posts)
    108. It seems like
    Sun Jun 26, 2022, 03:12 AM
    Jun 2022

    Big Oil's last gasp attempt to squeeze as much out of us while they can, before the world switches to alternative fuels. They will not give up that $$$ easily.

    zanana1

    (6,102 posts)
    83. I had that thought last night.
    Wed Jun 22, 2022, 08:18 AM
    Jun 2022

    I dismissed it because it sounded too Qanon. I had no idea somebody else would think that, too. It's too bad there's no proof. I'd love that.

    Cherokee100

    (264 posts)
    87. How much
    Wed Jun 22, 2022, 10:00 AM
    Jun 2022

    How much longer can this country exist, with all the dark money 'campaign contributions/bribes', controlling every aspect of the system? It has to stop.

    KY_EnviroGuy

    (14,488 posts)
    95. The real elephant in our room is that this applies to most goods and services....
    Wed Jun 22, 2022, 12:53 PM
    Jun 2022

    in America and most developed nations. Corporations and the wealthy take profits from our purchases and mostly support right-wing anti-tax politicians, thereby stabbing us in the back with our own money.

    If only capitalism was just, humanistic, rational and fair.....


    KY....

    DENVERPOPS

    (8,787 posts)
    101. It's not just gasoline and diesel
    Sat Jun 25, 2022, 08:10 PM
    Jun 2022

    Look at all large Corporations profits the past six months and how they are continuing to climb!
    Utility Natural Gas and Electricity, groceries, necessities, Public Water Systems water and sewage bills!
    All of these corporations are recording RECORD massive profits and the Republican Politicians are blaming it on Biden.

    Back in 76? they did the exact same thing to Jimmy Carter for those old enough to remember the gas prices/shortages and overall inflation!

    Samrob

    (4,298 posts)
    103. Say it loudly and often. But many Trumpers won/t care.
    Sat Jun 25, 2022, 08:12 PM
    Jun 2022

    It's "owning the libs" that matter.
    And there is no shortage of gasoline OR food. The grocery stores within 50 mile radius of where I live in MD all have stocked shelves full and hired workers to keep stocking them. I haven't been to a Giant Food store in the past week that doesn't stokers blocking almost every aisle as they try to make room on their shelves for new products. I think there is plenty of stuff because consumers are cutting back. Prices are high simply because they are getting away with it.

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